Leaderboard

It all makes sense, as usual. :) If there's one thing I've learned here it's to proceed with caution and at the dogs' pace. I can do the preliminary CER work without objects being involved - that should be a piece of cake and merely reinforcing what's already happening. They do play very well together in the yard and even with the jaw fighting inside. They share beds with no problems. Though they have 3 in different areas of the bedroom and two in the office, they usually end up together. From what I've seen so far it's only been with the newer toys. That's good news, though, because it means when we're ready to do CER with actual items we have plenty to choose from for the first stage. Lots and lots of play bowing, high-pitched vocalizations, bouncy play, bunny hops, etc . . .. Gertie often invites Esther to play, which I think is a mark in the pros box. There hasn't been a single time when they're playing that either of them has gotten upset. They need to learn to be a little gentler with one another and I play referee to guide them in that regard. Both listen well and ease up, thank goodness. A large part of my stress has been how busy we are with work. I haven't been able to dedicate the time I want to Esther's obedience and basic training. A contributing factor to that is Abbi being so needy. If she's left in the room without a human around she barks, howls, and carries on. I'm looking for ways to carve out time to do the training because it's driving me batty that she's not better mannered already - still having accidents in the house which is something I've always been able to get tackled in the first week or two and we're coming up on week 2 tomorrow. Esther also has no off button. She's wired for sound from 1 pm after her nap to 11 pm when we're ready to go to bed (no more 3 am bed times for me!). Once I can get her basics down we'll be in a better place. She already listens better than the other dogs with leave it and recall so I'm counting that as a major plus. Going from your Einstein story, both Esther and Gertrude were staring at the ceiling the other night. I kept thinking, "knock it off, Mo!" Not sure what he'd be doing on the ceiling, but it's where my mind went, lol.

It's a shame. Gertie used to be sharing like Esther is. It Is a fairly new toy. I ended up trading Gertie a few treats for it because she chews the nibs off of squeakers rendering them silent. I do have a longer tug rope around here somewhere. It would be great if dogs could share, but it's not very common, sure pups may play in a sharing way when young, and some may even eat food from the same bowls without any signs of problems, but there is this predisposition for not sharing as we would like as they mature. However, on the positive side, dogs are pretty good in communicating their emotions through body language and this helps prevent them from getting into physical fights where harm is done. In general, we expect socially skilled adult dogs to not steal objects from another dog by persistent pestering or force. When a dog claims an object, and he's lying down with it, the other dogs should respect this sort of like "OK, OK, I got the message, I will leave you alone." If the dogs know each other well and are still in a playful mood, there may still be some play, with one dog trying to lure the other dog away so the object can be stolen, but it's often done with a lot of play bows from the "stealer" and the other dog may growl/bark but in a playful tone and then may decide to get up to resume play. In my experience, (generally) male dogs may give female dogs some more leeway, allowing them to get away with things more compared to two same-sex dogs and adult dogs and young puppies allow also some leeway but only up to a certain age. With young puppies, generally under the age of 4 to 5 months old, well-socialized adult dogs will be quite tolerant giving leeway for the puppy to act as a mischievous, silly pup. Things change though once the puppy matures. At some point, the "puppy license to misbehave" is revoked and foolishness is no longer tolerated. Past this point, puppies need to learn to control themselves and behave more politely. So the respectful tendency to not get too close when a dog is in a serious: "stay away from my toy" mode is something youngsters learn, mostly through trial and error. Sort of like: "Whoops, I pushed her buttons, next time I will just keep my distance, she's serious about it. " With forms of quite mild guarding between dogs where's there's mostly communication (leave me alone now) and respect for personal spaces (I understand, I will stay away), intervention may not be needed, however, this doesn't mean we should ignore it. It requires careful monitoring to ensure things don't escalate and that a puppy doesn't continue to persist. We don't want a dog to feel stressed often when around the other dog to the point of developing constant fear of losing resources, and we don't want the other dog to become stressed about even innocent things such as just walking around and breathing. As long as Esther continues to do a good job of reading body language I'll be happy. It's significantly better than it was with Momo and infinitely better than Abbi. 🙂 I can at least have these girls next to one another for training and no arguments break out. I couldn't treat Mo and Gertie at the same time because he'd get snippy even with them on opposite sides of the room. It looked like in the first interaction, Esther backed away with her apologetic lip lick. Sure, she could have laid down a bit more distant, but she's likely new to this. Teaching her to not insist with a "leave it" or smacking sound may help if she keeps on trying to pester. This way she has Gertie warning her and you to more convincingly back her up that "yes, you need to move away." Gertie and Esther were doing okay today with a ball but I'm guessing I missed signals and when their bodies touched Gertie snapped at Esther. Instead of backing down this time Esther snapped back and it escalated. The biggest issue is that Esther reacts more intensely than I think she should when she gets corrected / shut down / snipped at. Instead of leaving she attacks and goes for the neck. Fortunately it's the top of the neck where Gertie has more hair and muscle than tender parts, but with those sharp puppy teeth I worry about injury. Everyone checked out - it must have been more noise than anything. Glad that it was noise more than anything. It would be important in this case knowing whether Gertie snapped because she was concerned about Esther trying to get the ball or if she reacted to the touch. Getting toys out of the equation could help with such assessment to determine whether toys evoke her behavior or she is trying to temper Gertie's play style. If Esther doesn't back down or listen to cues given from a dog that communicates well, then that is a concern. Such pups needs a lot of interruption. They should be very responsive to a solid recall/smacking sound before being allowed to play with the older dog. Actually, both dogs need to be responsive so that you can interrupt play before things start escalating. Play should be carefully monitored and there should be a plan to break up play into manageable, fun bursts. Investing time in training individually come, leave its and go to your mat behaviors can turn helpful and then practicing when the dogs are together. This helps manage them by being able to redirect one or another to separate them. As always, aim to train better impulse control frustration tolerance Make sure both dogs are enjoying the interaction. Look for bouncy body movement, play bows, high-pitched barks, rocking-chair gaits, happy play faces. If the dogs show signs of genuinely enjoying each other, the prognosis is much better than if they merely appear to tolerating each other. Also, it helps to create positive associations though bonding activities. Taking both dogs together on walks or hikes can be a good bonding experience. It also helps to create a safe haven for each dog where the dogs can take breaks from being around each other and enjoy some peace and quiet. This is a good time to work with Esther at a distance where Gerties cannot see or hear what you are doing (like out in the yard while Gertie is inside preferably with somebody else giving her attention) on some obedience training and brain games so to drain some of that energy. Things we have going for us are that she's still small, young, and submits when I pull her off - though I am not a fan of having to do that because *I* don't have hair and muscle as protection. I'm quite a bit softer than Gertie! Consider that young pups tend to become over stimulated easily (they don't have an off switch) and that can easily tip over to aggression. Both overarousal and mild social anxiety can lead to a nervous puppy who reacts more easily. Consider as well that high arousal/frustration can spark aggression that includes redirected aggression. So caution is needed in separating the dogs should a fight erupt, always best to interrupt before things get to that point. Once again, train for quick responses and monitor play. Have a plan in place to break a fight without getting in between physically. My concern is Esther's going to Probably be around 50 - 55 lbs when she's done growing and more powerful than she is now. 97% of the time they're best buds and still play together very well when resources aren't involved. For now my plan is management. No more new toys when they're together. Esther plays with the old toys while lying on top of Gertie and Gertie sleeps through it so I can only guess it's new things that will be an issue. I'll take a second here to say if Gertie hadn't chewed a hole in most of the old toys trying to get that nib off the squeakers I wouldn't have had to buy new toys. 😆 Then I'll say if someone had been watching Gertie more closely there wouldn't be holes in those toys. 😉 When I find someone to help me I think it will go something like: Give Gertie a low value toy, have her on a leash and one of us in control of that Esther on a leash and the other of us in control of that Walk Esther past Gertie at a distance acceptable to Gertie Give Gertie a high value treat Praise Esther for leaving Gertie alone Rinse and repeat until we can get closer Go at Gertrude's speed My husband isn't comfortable enough with training to assist and with behavior I'd feel more comfortable having someone More experienced than me. Mo gave me plenty of experience, but it's still good to have a fresh set of eyes. Eyes that are versed in doggy body language at that. Whew! I understand why folks prefer to go to a breeder for that known history, but I have it in me to get this sorted and give this girl a life she deserves. ❤️ Who knows what happened in the house she was first adopted to. They had a special needs child and said Esther was too much for him. I've seen some signs that make me think she may not have had the best treatment while there and some of the answers they put on the intake sheet don't jibe with what I'm seeing (e.g., it said she chewed up furniture and other things - she hasn't damaged a single plush or bothered our furniture. Pee pads are a different story, lol, and they must be ripped asunder). Management always works best for things like this, until help can be enlisted. Your behavior mod program sounds like a good plan, you would aim for a conditioned emotional response where Gertie looks happy when Esther walks by. It can be started even without Gertie having a resource yet. Just plainly making it clear that Esther walking by makes good things happen. When Ester is away, no more treats. Open bar/closed bar method. After several reps with a positive CER obtained, then it can be done with Gertie and a low-value toy. Same thing, always aiming for +CER. Practice in different areas of the home to help generalize the behavior. It would have to be clear to her that it's Esthers' walking by that makes good things happen. Then, one would work with Gertie and a higher value toy same exercise, different areas, always aiming for +CER. With this work done though, I wouldn't feel safe to let Esther just approach Gertie when she has a toy. I would aim for a second line of defense just in case. That is, I would also train Esther that when Gertie is with a toy or other valuable resource, she has to withdraw when cued. She would also have to withdraw immediately if Gertie would give a hard stare or nose wrinkling/snarl. I like to use the smacking sound for that. With close supervision, management in place when not doing behavior mod (no toys around), behavior modification to change Gertie's emotional response, training Esther to withdraw and a plan in place to separate dogs in case of a fight (without having to get in between and risk a redirected bite) you should have covered many basis, however as you know, behavior mod. is something I always recommend doing in presence of a professional for safety and because it requires a very structured setting and lots of judgement calls, especially initially. Finally, something to think about. If "assuming" she is really resource guarding and this is very uncharacteristic of her, consider that when a dog who was part of the social group passes away, things can be quite unsettling for the first week or so. It's as if their world turns upside down. So it could be she is undergoing some stress from the loss of Momo. A little anecdotal story: When Petra passed away, Einstein was acting very odd. He never ever in his life acted possessive over stuff against us, and there he was now sometimes out of the blue hovering over a toy. This was so out of character for him both I and hubby at some point were wondering whether Petra was walking around as a ghost! Now, I am not much a ghost believer, I am more for things down to earth and "sciency," never appreciated much nor believed in the paranormal so this just didn't make much sense. Einstein and Petra always resource guarded stuff from each other but it was rather mild and always ritualistic. One would get a toy or bone and would go to their own mat to enjoy it. If one came too close at times, a quick growl and grab of the toy would make the point. They each respected their requests for space with an "OK, OK,I got it that toy is very important to you, you can have it." Only a couple of times in their 10 years together they got into a more intense squabble. Once hubby was bouncing a ball making them too excited and building too much anticipation they ended up fighting over it when he tossed it. The other time, was when Petra was sick and didn't want to eat so she turned her body away from food acting disinterested, and Einstein interpreted it as her not wanting it so decided to get closer and was met with angry growling, barking and snapping. "I am sick, but not stupid, and no you can't have that!" With little explanation over Einstein's new behavior, we chucked it up to the stress of the loss or he was just so used to b guarding stuff from her, he no longer knew what to do when he had a toy from this point forward. After a week or so, he was back to his normal relaxed state. Just something to think about. Sometimes these losses can impact them in unexpected ways and can generate stress as they create profound changes (as they do to us) so that may be too something at play that is making her more over the edge. Hope this helps, Best, Adrienne