The two faces of Heidi(?puppy aggression)

[CherylHampton]

Hi, its been awhile.....I finally made the decision to get another pup and she's very special(as all puppies are). She's a German shepherd lab mix(like my precious Shiloh), but she has a completely different temperament. She's super sweet and very alert and playful, but when she encounters a new person she growls and barks. Every time. She's only 8 weeks old and I assume some of its insecurity,or fearfulness . I'm aware she needs to be socialized but is this a behavior I should be concerned about?. Its new to me as every other dog I've ever had were openly friendly at every age. She's super smart, and I have a training question I will be posting soon. I know everyone here is learning as much as I did taking Shiloh through it. I know Heidi will be a star pupil too😊

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Hi Cheryl, 

Congrats on your new puppy! Post pictures when you have a moment. I am sure she is adorable!

I am concerned about this behavior, being that at this age, they should be curious and eager to meet and greet. Sure, some pups may be a little shy to approach, but wouldn't normally expect to see growling and barking. This can be suggestive of a genetic tendency that may require loads of management, training, critically planned socialization and confidence building.

I don't want to discourage you, but the few pups we had in class that did this so young (bark/growl at people), required a high level of commitment that not all owners were able to achieve, leaving many of them still acting this way past adolescence (when the behavior becomes more concerning). 

It could be that she is going through a fear period and hopefully it's transient:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/fear-periods-8-10-weeks-6-14-months/

What is her history? Where did you get her from?

Was she barking and growling at you the first time you met her? Did the breeder/shelter comment on her behavior?

Has she seen the vet yet? If so, how did she do? Please mention the behavior to the vet, they may want to check her eyes and other stuff.

If you haven't taken her yet to the vet, make sure to do as much as possible to make it a pleasant experience (treats, praise let the staff now beforehand your pup is fearful so that they can take extra steps in their approach), I highly recommend looking for a fear-free vet in your area and make the long drive as needed: https://fearfreepets.com/resources/directory/

If they offer classes too, I would inquire as long as they have reputable fear-free dog trainers on board. 

When does she bark and growl at people? When first seeing them and then she warms up? Does this happen on walks? At home? 

Careful with socialization, these pups need a different approach than the average puppy who is just "taking in" information. These fearful pups need loads of management to prevent them from rehearsing the behavior since we don't want them to feel stressed which can have a snowball effect.

They need to learn to not fear and therefore their socialization will need to be custom-tailored, more than just mere habituating them, but rather working more on desensitization and counterconditioning with the goal of creating a positive conditioned emotional response. 

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/conditioned-emotional-response-cer/

 

[CherylHampton]

Hi Adrienne, thanks for the quick response. Wow that's a lot to take in.  I got Heidi from a neighbor of my moms who wound up with an unwanted litter(yeah I know). The German shepherd nxt door jumped her fence and "romanced" her labradore.  The pups appeared well cared for and I did question her about the disposition of her dog as well as the neighbors. No red flags , but you know how that goes. I just didn't want to see her in a shelter if avoidable. Interestingly enough Heidi has done an about face when meeting new people. She presents now as very submissive until she gets a feel for the person then its belly rub time😊 I think her snapping at the neighbors dog was more from fear that anything. She's warming up to her and I can tell she really wants to follow her around the yard but she holds back. She's allowed the standard "meet and greet" that threw her initially, and seems to want to interact but not really playful yet. Sophie is the kind of dog I wanted for her initial meet as she's VERY chill and was so good with Shiloh. She's just unflappable and a good teacher for a young pup when it comes to being too aggressive while playing. A few more visits should increase Heidi's confidence.  I hesitate to take her around my daughters mini schnauzer, as she just doesn't like other dogs. Shiloh tried to befriend her  but it was a no go. I feel better about Heidi at this point than I did. She's done well with training on sit, down and come. Hates the leash worse than Shiloh, and is more hyper and dare I say it more stubborn? She's not going to do well with leave it, and jumping is a bit of an issue. Not too bad though, and ignoring her til she sits seems to be working ok on that front so far.  It may be worth mentioning that  her socialization has been a bit hindered as I've been having to care for my mom and she's spent more time at her home than mine since I've had her..I am Working on it though. I will post a pic as soon as I figure out how lol. As always thanks so much for your prompt and sage advice. I hope with this new info you will have more encouraging news. As I said, I feel better about her behavior and will truly keep an eye out for anything that even HINTS at agression, she did growl and bark at some deer that walked through my moms yard, but didn't try chasing or charging them.  I'm sure you know you will hear from me again soon😊.. Thanks for always being there, getting another pup this soon was a MAJOR decision, I'm glad I did though, and know that little Heidi is gonna do fine. 

 

 

 

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Hi Cheryl,

Thank you for the update! So yes, this sounds much better. I would still take some steps to ensure she doesn't feel overwhelmed around new people, and there's a great game for this: Suzanne Clothier's Treat and Retreat game:

braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/how-to-play-the-treat-and-retreat-game

I wasn't aware that Heidi also snapped at your neighbor's dog. I agree with you, that this is likely fear-based, especially if the other dog cornered her or caused her to feel overwhelmed. It's nice to hear that she is warming up.

If you can get her to at least meet/greet one stranger a day for about 10 minutes, working at her pace, perhaps starting with 'treat-retreat" so she can choose how much to approach, research has found that it can make a significant difference. I still feel that she may benefit from some well-run puppy classes before the window for her prime socialization period closes. 

In this article, towards the end, you will find some tips on how to get a puppy used to wearing a collar and leash and learning to "give-in" to leash pressure:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/exercises-to-teach-puppies-to-tolerate-touch/

It sounds like you are doing a good job in teaching her that sitting instead of jumping gets your attention. Keep up the great work! It's best to nip any problems that arise in the bud so that there's less rehearsal history. 

Keep us posted on how things go!

Best,

Adrienne 

 

[CherylHampton]

As always thanks Adrienne! Heidi is such an energetic happy pup she keeps me busy. We've been meeting new people, and once she warms up to them she's fine. She still presents as feearful( or maybe just overly submissive) as she approaches new people on her stomach, tail wagging, but needs coaxing. Doesn't take long to get past it but worth noting I think. I have her some playmates as soon as they are fully vaccinated as well as Heidi and hope it goes well. She will be much larger than them so will have to keep an eye on her. I try so hard not to compare her to Shiloh, they are so similar in so many ways but so different in others. 😊 she's been almost impossible with the "stay" and, I've triedeverything. Any help on that front greatly appreciated.

 

 

 

[Adrienne Farricelli]

You're always very welcome Cheryl!

The treat retreat game can turn out helpful as a warm-up (in lieu of coaxing) also for overly submissive pups. I am not sure why the treat retreat link above didn't turn into a hyperlink, but let me try again:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/how-to-play-the-treat-and-retreat-game/

With the stay cue,  she's very young, so you need to make it super easy at first until she grasps the concept. Start with split second stays and don't increase the time until she has mastered split-second stays. 

 https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/obedience-101/stay/

Let me know how it goes. 

[CherylHampton]

Thanks Adrienne, I'm beginning to wonder if I'm throwing too much at her at once. She got sit, and down VERY  quickly however she's one step ahead with f me on those, she will sit on command then drop to a down position waiting for a treat lol. She will go down on command too, I've worked around the getting ahead of me though by mixing it up and doing some other things. Glad to know she's still a bit young to grasp the stay completely gives me hope she will come around. Funny thing though I can tell her to stay while she's sitting, and she wants to jump up, lay down, but will then hold a stay in the down position for a good bit. She has me connfused. Her jumping is becoming an issue as well and ignoring her doesn't seem to work. Its sporadic and in short bursts so its been hard to address. I've tried pinpointing the times when its most prevalent and its almost always when she thinks I have treats. She's HIGHLY food motivated and a bit hyper, but she will sit and hold a "look at me" for a good count, Maybe as she gets a bit older she will settle some. She's a German Shepherd Black lab mix(supposed tio be) however I am convinced there's some husky in her, enough to be noticeable so perhaps that weighs in. Time for a training session now, wish me luck. Thanks for all your support!

[Adrienne Farricelli]

It could be that Heidi is getting a little confused or it could be simply that like you say "she's a step ahead of you." Some dogs can be very quick in their execution of cues and their expectations. 

It could be that's she's sitting and expecting to be immediately praised and rewarded with a tasty treat, so if the treat delivery is delayed for just a split second, she second guesses herself, and therefore slips into a down in hopes that that's the behavior that is going to gain reinforcement. 

With these dogs it can therefore be a challenge being quick enough to reinforce them so that they stop sliding into a down in hopes of getting 'things right."

To remedy this, we can ask our dog to sit and immediately click our clicker before they even have time to think about lying down. The clicker informs our dog quickly that they got it right and that a treat is coming. 

Sometimes, dogs may slide into a down if the surface is slippery (working on a carpet can help) and some other times, they may be going down because they sense our frustration or in some "softer dogs" as an instinctive appeasement gesture in response to us staring at them or leaning towards them. 

Teaching a stay from a down position is easier for many dogs as it's the most comfortable position. 

If treats prompt her to jump, keep them in a your treat bag, pocket or in a closed fist so that she doesn't know you are carrying them (this of course once you're past the stage of luring and have faded the food lures).

Make sure she never gets treats when she is actively jumping. You can even put the treats/kibble to good use, by carrying them in your pocket and when she approaches you, ask her to sit and toss a treat at a distance *before* she even thinks about lying down/jumping. 

Be careful not to inadvertently create a behavior chain. Behavior chains can be composed by desirable and undesirable behaviors and being aware of them is important to prevent them from establishing.

If every time you ask your dog to sit, and your dog lies down or jumps, and you then prompt her to go back to sitting and you praise and reward that, you are risking building a behavior chain that may be difficult to undue. The dog soon thinks that "sit" means lying down/jumping and then propping herself back up/sitting and soon you're stuck with a dog doing "sit-ups!' or jumping and sitting.

Be therefore very careful of what you reinforce. If she sits when you ask for sit, be fast to click and treat, but if she lies down or jumps, leave the area so that she gets no reinforcement. You can even use a verbal marker "uh-ho!" as you walk away.

If she has lied down too many times when you said  "sit" in the past, you may have to change the cue name to something else and introduce a new cue once she reliably sits. 

Best wishes for your training sessions, you can always post here for support. 

Happy training!