I need help quickly

[MARK FISCHER]

I've read several threads with situations similar to mine. My 9 1/2 month old Frenchie is generally very good and then really really difficult. First, let me describe my somewhat unique situation - My wife and I travel quite a bit in a 27' Travel trailer. We got the Frenchie because I read that the breed is one of if not the most desirable for this lifestyle. I was looking forward to having a 25 - 30 lb. lap dog/couch potato. Well Louie has turned out to be 42 lbs.!! He isn't fat at all - he's just VERY big for a Frenchie. His vet says he has perfect form for the breed and even recommended showing him. I digress. Overall he is a really good boy. He's totally housebroken and loves his crate. He travels with no issues - he just sleeps on the back seat and sometimes looks out of the window. He really hasn't damaged or destroyed much of anything to speak of - I understand that sometimes a puppy might get into something they're not supposed. So now the problem side. The barking, scratching and nipping are becoming aggressive, especially toward my wife. He is relentless. His bark is so loud that it gets painful. Then the jumping, scratching and nipping start. We try to ignore him in an effort to not give any attention to bad behavior but how does one sit on a couch and ignore a 42 lb. dog who is constantly barking, jumping and nipping? Even if I stand up, he continues. I can turn my back, fold my arms and not look at him. He just doesn't stop. It went nearly 2 hours once. In ignoring the dog, I also cannot do anything else because he will immediately be at me. I've been told to never use the crate as a punishment for bad behavior. Everything I read tells me to ignore the bad behavior and reward the good behavior. I guess I don't understand this. Am I to constantly feed him treats when he is NOT barking? I would go broke and he would get fat. Ignoring the bad behavior is killing us. The dog has drawn blood on my wife and she is starting to really dislike him. All he does is whine, bark, jump and nip when he's not being paid attention to. He gets plenty of toys and PLENTY of exercise. When we let him outside on his lead he mostly barks which we can't let happen because we are in a RV park. My wife never really wanted the dog. I selected the breed because i read and was told by several people how easy they are. I heard couch potato/low energy/easy to train several times. This being said, all dog care and training is solely mine. There have been times when I just need to stand over her as if to protect her from the dog as she sits and watches tv. Y'all need to respect this as she also has sever health issues and really doesn't want to deal with a difficult dog. I've read the 4 pinned threads. I feel like I need someone to help me start BEFORE. How do I get an out of control dog to stop let alone sit or stay?!?! MY GOD! Just as I write this my dog just attacked my wife for reaching for her phone. She's bleeding again and I had to pin the dog. HELP HELP HELP! I know that all he wants is her attention but that will NOT happen.  I am preparing to re-home him is something doesn't change quickly.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Hi, welcome to the forums,

Your description started with what seemed like a wonderful dog, travels well, hasn't destroyed anything, totally housebroken and is generally really good.

Then you mentioned him being relentless, doesn't stop barking and nipping, and goes on for hours, and you would have to be constantly feeding him to get him to  stop because all he does is whine, bark, jump and nip. And when he bites he draws blood. This is a very concerning situation if he's acting in an aggressive manner.

However, I have seen some dogs do this not aggressively, just as an obnoxious, unacceptable way to ask for attention or trying to engage the owners in interacting with them/play, but sometimes this exacerbates getting more and more rough and may on occasions truly morph into aggression.

It tends to get rougher in particular in two circumstances:

1) if we' re ignoring them, (which may evoke an extinction burst, during which the dog tries to get rougher to gain interaction) and then we interact with them during that, which only encourage persistence, increasing the behavior ten-fold.

2) if we start getting physical with them (like alpha rolling them, holding their muzzle closed, pinning them to the ground or just innocent pushing them away) which makes them escalate and risks turning into actual defensive aggression.

I have several questions to better understand your situation:

1) Has he always been acting this way? When did this behavior exactly start?

2) What have you been doing so far when he gets into this mindset to stop him?

3) What seems to trigger this? Is it always happening when you are both sitting on the couch trying to watch TV?

4) Was your wife sitting on the couch and reached for her phone when he bit as you were writing? Does he resource guard anything? (like threaten to bite when somebody comes near his food bowl, toys, bed, you our your wife, or other objects?

5) Are his bites always breaking the skin? Did this bite occur as a result of your wife moving her hand away  from his mouth and his teeth scraping her skin or is it an actual puncture wound?

6) Since you had him, has he received any obedience training at all? If so, what?

7) Is there something in particular that seems to  predictably start this behavior? (for example, days he isn't walked much, when he's bored/ hungry or needs to be taken outside to potty?)

8 ) what are some circumstances that seem to NEVER make this behavior happen?

9 ) Other than when engaging in undesirable behaviors, what does he seems to enjoy? What are his favorite activities? What is his day like when he doesn't he not bark, jump. nip? How much time does he spend in the RV and outside? What activities does he have when inside the RV?

10) I understand it may feel like he does this all day, but in many cases it just feels like that. I would like to actually know what percentage of his day he is really engaging in this problematic behavior.

11) Have you mentioned this behavior to your vet? 

12) Does he appear to be ever stressed? D you notice any of these signs? https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/signs-fear-stress-dogs/

Now, if he just bit your wife please make sure she receives medical attention for it, as left untreated some dog bites can turn quickly into nasty infections. 

As a first intervention, we need to take steps to prevent this from happening. If this behavior keeps going on, it's because there's some level of reinforcement happening that makes him want to repeat this over and over, making the behavior habit-forming. Let's not allow him to keep making the same mistakes and risk harming your wife. This is mostly done through management.

If you know when these attacks predictably occur, take steps to prevent them. This can mean, redirecting him at the earliest sign (or even better, before watching TV if that predictably evokes the problem behavior) and placing him behind a baby gate where he can't gain access to both of you and keep rehearsing the problem behaviors. I hear that you live in a trailer, so this would mean sending him to a safe area away from you that can be blocked off if possible. 

Since touching him such as grabbing his collar likely causes him to bite (which I am almost positive it does), you need to do this in the least intrusive ways as possible such as tossing a treat (or his kibble) in that area and then giving him something to chew (bully stick/stuffed Kong) to keep occupied.  It would be best if this area is nearby so that he doesn't feel left out, but at least he can't rehearse the nipping/biting behavior. 

Another way would be letting him wear an indoor drag line attached to the ring of his harness, so that he can be removed from the situation at the earliest sign or better before he gets to rehearse the problematic behavior and then taking him to the area where a stuffed Kong is provided (so he has something alternate to do and can keep occupied and looks forward to going to this area, versus dreading it). 

Another alternative to a baby gate is tethering him (using an indoor dog tether attached to the back clip of a harness, not clipped to the collar and giving him something to chew.) Tethering needs several safety precautions in place such as always supervising the dog when tethered and never tethering to objects that may fall over, collapse or be dragged. 

Here's an example of an indoor tether: https://www.amazon.com/Waggin-Train-Medium-Chew-Proof-Indoor/dp/B005IHUG72?th=1).

It shouldn't' allow him to come close enough to rehearse the problematic behaviors, but caution is needed, because it's easy to forget how long the tether line is and you or your wife may walk get up from the couch and walk too closely which may evoke the problematic behavior if he's still in at that possible " wanting attention" mindset. If needed to get up and walk by, it may help to toss a few kibble his way (going and coming back) to get him to do engage in an alternate behavior. 

Ideally, we would make this a routine. If TV watching time is let's say every evening at 6 PM, let's take him on a walk prior to that, give him plenty of opportunities to engage in several activities he loves, and then, he's sent to this area or tethered with something he loves. This doesn't necessarily mean that you'll need to fill him up with treats, you can take advantage of his need to eat nourishing food by stuffing a Kong with his evening portion of wet kibble, freeze it and give it to him to enjoy when it's TV watching time, at least to break this cycle of rehearsing problematic behaviors. 

This could mean making some sacrifices at first, such as coordinating TV time to when it's his dinnertime or when he's tired and most likely to nap after chewing on something or maybe watching TV in bed using a smartphone or tablet when he's sleeping at night in his crate, but most behavior intervention plans require some level of change in the ways we interact with our dogs to evoke changes in them as well. 

This is management: in other words it helps break the cycle, but your dog would really need to learn to engage in an alternate behavior such as lying quietly on a mat when watching TV with a stuffed Kong.

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/video-archive/train-dog-go-to-mat/

This would need to be trained first outside of the problematic setting (not when watching TV, but in other settings when he is chill) at a fluent enough level before asking him to do so when sitting down in front of the TV (if that's the common event that sets his behavior).

The use of an indoor tether (clipped to the back ring of a harness) and the strategic placement of a Kong on the mat may further help him make good choices, especially in the initial stages. 

Since he's biting and breaking skin, I highly recommend working along with a dog behavior professional who can guide your through the process for correct implementation and safety. Some cases can be very difficult to treat. It may be difficult to interrupt a dog's behavior, or maybe he bites too hard and this makes him more likely to bite (when in fear we may move which dogs interpret as interaction).

You need to therefore make safety top priority. Look for a reputable dog behavior professional (like a board-certified veterinary behaviorist) or a dog trainer with years of behavior consulting under the belt and using force-free methods. Sometimes, dogs may need medications to be under threshold enough to allow them the opportunity to learn better coping skills and better frustration tolerance.

I also suggest muzzle training him since it sounds like he may not have much bite inhibition. Since he's a Frenchie, he will need a special muzzle designed for brachycephalic dog breeds. https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/video-archive/train-your-dog-to-wear-a-muzzle/

It's important to note that a muzzle doesn't stop a dog from acting in aggressive ways. Putting a muzzle on an aggressive/rough biting dog without working on the underlying issue is looking for trouble. Even though the dog can't bite, he will still be emotionally charged and he may get to rehearse reactive/aggressive/undesirable behaviors such as growling, snarling and lunging.

 

Again, the more dogs get to rehearse these problematic behaviors, the more they put roots and become habit-forming. On top of this, when dogs rehearse reactive/aggressive behaviors stress hormones circulate around the dog's body.  Therefore, it's important to avoid any situations that may cause your dog to react negatively while in the background steps are taken to train an alternate behavior. 

 

If he's barking on walks, you would need to determine what evokes the barking and work around that. Here is a general guide on reducing reactivity on walks: https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/how-to-make-your-dog-less-reactive-on-walks/ Notice how several steps are similar to changing the behavior when sitting on the couch. 

 

You may therefore need to walk him away from the RV park or stop on purpose by some nature trail areas where you can walk him where there are no triggers and his barking doesn't bother others. 

 

If you're worried about calories when training your dog, here are ways to dramatically reduce them:

 https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/worried-about-calories-8-ways-to-train-without-over-feeding-your-dog/

 

I hope this helps.

 

Looking forward to your responses to get a better insight on his triggers. 

Best,

Adrienne 

 

Disclaimer: behavior modification comes with risks. If your puppy or dog shows signs of potential aggression (lunging, barking, growling, snapping, biting) for safety, please consult with a dog behavior professional who uses force-free behavior modification techniques (no shock, prongs, or physical corrections) for direct in-person guidance. Articles, videos and general info found in the forums or course (or any online source) are not meant to replace in-person training/instruction. By using this course and forum, you are waiving any liability claims or other type of claims related to any dogs' behavior against you or others.

 

[JMFS]

Adrienne covered it all.  I'd like to lend some moral support.  While our situation is a bit different than yours (ours is towards other dogs, less so humans, and certainly not us), I understand well the aggravation, irritation, desperation, helplessness, and desire to just give up.  Been there, done that, have a stack of t-shirts!

I want to echo Adrienne's tethering suggestion.  When Esther starts acting up, we tether her to the stair railing.  She spent a large portion of Saturday there, because every time we gave her an opportunity to knock it off (she kept jumping on our elderly 8-lb dog, bouncing from the couch to the floor and back again despite brain games, exercise, and a long lasting treat - some days she just can't settle), she opted instead to do the Opposite of what we asked.  This is after about $3k worth of training.  Our trainers ghosted us so we never got to finish up and I haven't had time to work with our primary trainer.  Some dogs are simply tough nuts to crack, but with time, work, and patience they turn out to be some of the best dogs we'll meet.  I have that hope for Esther.

To offer a light at the end of the tunnel - most days are good enough and she's off leash most of the day now.  She used to be leashed during all waking hours because she'll eat any and everything.  Day-by-day it gets better, but we do still have our off days. 

You asked about crating and using it as punishment.  If he is okay with his crate, then it's okay to put him there.  It's called positive punishment (I hope I got that right - Adrienne will correct me if I didn't).  Like putting a child in time out.  We put Esther in her kennel when she's over threshold, which is when there is a dog on the television.  Even a cartoon dog!  But, we don't just toss her in there.  We give her a treat or maybe a Benebone to make it a positive experience, rather than a negative one.  If we know we're going to see a plethora of animals on the tv we'll put her in the kennel before starting the show, but we're often taken by surprise and then we have a barking, lunging, slavering dog losing her mind over a pretend dog.  To digress - the other night we let her go to the television.  She started whining and looking behind the tv, then sniffed all around.  She went over to our other dog, Gertrude and sniffed her.  Then looked at the television and sniffed Gertrude again.  She was utterly confused and that broke the tension.  Sometimes it boils down to figuring out how to address the issue, and it's not always a cut and dry solution.  We're still riddling it out.

You might question why you need an in-person trainer when you bought this program (many people ask).  It's because there are things that Adrienne can't see that an in-person trainer will.  E.g., ears, eyes, stiffness of the body, position of the tail, etc . . ..  Adrienne has to rely on retellings of situations, and we often leave out pertinent information because we don't know what to look for.  A trainer who can be there to take in the scene will have far more information to help than we could ever provide for Adrienne.  If you have any videos, though . . . that's a big help, too.  Still not as good as in person, but better than the written word.

I hope y'all are able to hang in there.  I understand your wife's position.  The elderly dog, Abbi, is my husband's (we have 3 total) dog and she and I never bonded.  She drives me up the wall with her behaviors, but she's 16 and ailing so it's not as though we can do anything other than attempt to make her comfortable.  It's miserable being held captive by a dog, especially if there are health issues (I have arthritis and herniated discs), and that's compounded by not being on good terms with the dog.  I struggle to help Abbi toilet - she can't walk - with my discs so there's a little resentment there when it's hurting me.  It doesn't make her a bad person at all, and Adrienne would never think that (nor do I).  ❤️ It's wonderful that she has a husband who is sensitive to her health and who is willing to protect her.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

On 3/28/2023 at 1:19 AM, JMFS said:

You asked about crating and using it as punishment.  If he is okay with his crate, then it's okay to put him there.  It's called positive punishment (I hope I got that right - Adrienne will correct me if I didn't).  Like putting a child in time out.  We put Esther in her kennel when she's over threshold, which is when there is a dog on the television.  Even a cartoon dog!  But, we don't just toss her in there.  We give her a treat or maybe a Benebone to make it a positive experience, rather than a negative one. 

Hi Jennifer, thanks for all the great words of support!

Sooo.....(warning-nerdy content to follow 🤔) yes, you are correct that it is punishment, but it's negative punishment rather than positive punishment, although to really know what it is, we need to see whether whether we are adding something or subtracting something, whether it's decreasing a behavior or increasing it, and how the dog perceives the whole situation and the ultimate driving motives. 

The definition of positive punishment is the addition (positive) of something to make a behavior reduce (punishment) and eventually stop.

The definition of negative punishment is the removal (negative) of something to make a behavior reduce (punishment) and eventually stop. 

So in this case, if the dog is barking, scratching and nipping, and this is done with the intention of getting attention/interaction (something a dog may badly crave) the removal (negative) from human company should make this behavior reduce (punishment)over time *if* the timeout area is a neutral, boring place. It can also be quite aversive if the dog is a Velcro type who suffers when being left alone. 

However, if instead the dog is barking, scratching and biting and this is done with the intention of defense because the dog feels fearful/intimidated or maybe he's just frustrated/tired/cranky, then, when removing (negative) the dog from the situation and taking him to the timeout zone, he may feel relief, and this can make the behavior strengthen (reinforcement) and increase. This would therefore be negative reinforcement- the removal of something causing behavior to increase.

Not to mention, if we remove a dog from a situation and the dog's behavior is ultimately attention-driven, the brief process of taking the dog to a timeout zone may possibly qualify as a form of attention as well, so things can get a tad bit mudded when behavior change plans should be as clear as possible. In this case we would want to do everything possible so the dog could closely chain his behavior with the temporary and brief attention he gets (as neutral and matter-of-fact as possible) with the timeout zone. 

On top of this, we need to evaluate the timeout zone, how does the dog perceive it? If it's a fun place to be, it can't be really a timeout zone (imagine taking the kids to Disney after misbehaving!), but if it's not fun, we risk creating negative associations with such place (which is why I am not too fond of using areas we have worked hard on creating positive associations with). 

On top of this, just the act of taking the dog in timeout (like by grasping the dog by collar) can cause a dog to dislike being grasped by the collar, playing hard to catch or even attempting to bite the hand. Even our frustrated/angered body language may be felt by the dog and this whole negativity may cause dogs to become reluctant to wanting to be taken to timeout. 

So there's a lot of evaluation to be done when carrying out a timeout, and ideally before such approach will need to be used, a behavior professional would carry out a functional analyses to determine the exact function of the behavior and craft a contingency management plan before suggesting such approach.

Sure, one can suggest it and test it by tracking the behavior and objectively determining whether it increases or decreases over time, but there can be risks in the process (not working, allowing rehearsal of problematic behavior, side effects mentioned above). 

So this is why I am not very fond of using timeouts and why I suggest doing everything possible to prevent the dog from engaging in the problematic behavior in the first place using preclusion as much as possible (taking steps to prevent the behavior), and if not, at least at the earliest sign of the problematic behavior and putting the dog in a neutral area to chill with access to something to chew (not the formal definition of a timeout) so to prevent rehearsal of the problematic behavior and as a temporary measure until the dog can be trained an alternate behavior, (therefore, more a a management option more than an actual timeout).

Does this mean that timeouts are not effective? No, done correctly in a timely matter, contingent upon the exhibition of the problematic behavior, and with care to reduce side effects, it can be effective. In a daycare setting, the timely removal of a dog from the play area (using a tab leash) upon noticing the dog's play getting too rough (like mounting), often eventually leads to a reduction of the problem behavior, so timeouts have their place, but care needs to be taken to carefully evaluate their effectiveness and how they may impact the dog.

[JMFS]

Ah, ~5 years around here and I'm still learning!  You touched on a good point.  I forgot to mention that our removals of Esther are done as a result of evaluation, and recommendation, by two behaviorists.  I knew you would set the record straight! ❤

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Hey, you never stop learning! It actually gets addicting at some point, and the best part is that there is always new research coming out and we are always discovering more and more about how behavior modification and training impacts our furry friends and the most effective, least intrusive approaches. 

Cheers! 😍