Vet office trouble

[FrederykBlot]

Hello,

I hope you're all doing ok

Everything is going fine with Loki, except for a bad adventure we had last time for his vaccines renewal
To say the least, he went pretty bad :(

 

To give you the full story, when younger he had no problem with the vet, but at some point (I don't remember well, I guess it was last year vaccination), he was shot badly, cried and whined... At the time, it didn't looked like a big deal to us, but he started to be afraid of the vet office. We did put go again some time, he was always afraid, but nothing that caused trouble.  So to us, it was something manageable, and it was no big deal. 
But last month (or 2) he got an eye infection associated with big conjonctivitis, and the vet wanted to give drops for detection. It was impossible. He was dodging, running away from her... so they wanted to restrain him, and he started to growl and to snap... so they put a muzzle, and it just worsen things, to the point he managed to put off the muzzle and bite a vet assistant...

Yep, sweet Loki, nicest and most sociable dog possible, did bite a human being

In the end, they managed, with lots of restrain

And come the vaccination renewal, without time for us to tackle the issue, and same trouble all over again
Besides, now, after the biting, he's categorized as a difficult dog, so they put the muzzle directly, mentioning that kennel cough is in the snout, so they don't want to take a risk doing manipulation close to the teeth
Again, lots of restrain, crying, whining from Loki... They even made me leave the room, as I was obviously stressed and sad with how things were going, and the dog would feel it

In the end they managed, and after we had a little "scolding" from the vet, mentioning to us that it shouldn't be like that (they even charged us the extra time it took and extra assistant he had to call for restrain). We tried to explain he always behaves good, but it's just fear from the place

 

So, here it is... this is the whole story

So what we're going to do, is for now desentization from the place... from time to time, going to the vet office, doing nothing, just wander round and treating, rinse, repeat, just to wash the fear away

At the same time at home, work on manipulation, (touch the ears, the eyes, examine, try to do movement around his head without him moving...) and muzzle training (after those 2 episodes, I'm pretty sure they won't take Loki without the muzzle)

 

But except for that, I'd take any advice, or information that may be relevant about this 

 

Thank you in advance for the help

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Hi there!

I am so sorry to hear about Loki's past incident at the vet's office. Hopefully his bite didn't do much damage.

I think it's important in these cases to remind ourselves that dogs can sometimes act out of character when they are put into situations where they are restrained and forced to endure potentially uncomfortable or even painful procedures. That fight or flight instinct kicks in, causing them to react defensively.  Even so, it still hurts us at a deep emotional level when this happens and I think it's because we expect our dogs to endure things and cope with them without wincing and perceive their reactions as some type of failure on our side. 

At least, this is how I felt when Petra once started snapping wildly in all directions when they were trying to microchip her (she hated shots) or when Einstein growled when the vet was getting really close to his face with an ophthalmoscope or when the technicians couldn't find a vein on his neck and kept holding him still in an uncomfortable position. 

In the first case with Petra, I didn't like how the vet and vet staff handled the situation. They were very rough and oriented on getting the task done in the least amount of time and really cared less about the amount of stress this was causing her. They also were condescending towards me (and later noticed the same attitude towards other dog owners) when the dogs in their care weren't as collaborative as they would like.  I never took Einstein nor Petra to that vet again.

In the second case, with Einstein, I fortunately found a wonderful vet who understood how dogs struggle with certain procedures. She realized it was weird for Einstein having a weird instrument and herself so close to his face. She always allowed me to stay in the room with Einstein and use my treats (they delivered treats too) and they even started doing vet visits outdoors, in open spaces, allowing dogs to feel more relaxed versus crammed in a small space. I always felt welcomed there and they always took steps to ameliorate the situation.

Let me list you a third case, just for laughs...This is a true story. When I was a child, my mom took me to he doctor and the doctor was rather rough in using the tongue depressor and he made me gag. My knee-jerk reaction to this was biting the doctor's hand! Yes, you read that right! I still remember him withdrawing his hand looking at me as if I was some wild animal and rushing to disinfect his hand and cover it up with a bandage! I wonder if my medical records had some "caution, bites" plastered all over after that incident!

Jokes aside, for me it's fundamental that the veterinary team takes proactive steps to help ameliorate these situations and that they work with us collaboratively and respectfully so as to help ensure the best possible care. This often takes a mutual approach and some planning, with us dog owners trying to do out best to create positive associations with the vet's office and getting them used to having certain body parts handled, and them taking steps to enforce this so as to create a partnership.  

Loki's story is very similar to Petras'. As a small pup, she cared less about her vaccines, but then somewhere along her yearly vaccination booster, for some reason, out of the blue, she started screaming when they gave her the shot. I was very surprised, especially because a small Chihuahua was given a shot just prior to her and cared less, and here was a big Rottweiler screaming in pain. People in the waiting room were also surprised when we came out and some were even joking about it as they expected another Chihuahua to come out of the room. 

The bad microchip experience then made the situation even worse, turning it into a phobia, to the point where she would even pee on herself in fear. This is when I decided I had to be her ambassador and find a vet who was more understanding, while I would work my best on helping her out. After her snapping, I made the decision of always muzzling my dogs and the dogs I have fostered when at the vet as an extra precaution for safety, even when I knew they had very mellow temperaments. 

So here are some tips that come to mind:

-Yes, keep on muzzle training at home. https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/video-archive/train-your-dog-to-wear-a-muzzle/

Don't just aim for him tolerating it, aim for him looking forward to wearing it, feeding him through it and aiming for a positive conditioned emotional response. 

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/conditioned-emotional-response-cer/

Let him wear it as well for a few seconds when visiting the vet just for fun and feed him through it (as long as it doesn't evoke negative emotions). 

-Yes, keep taking him to the vet for fun visits, with nothing but positive things happening. 

-Yes, keep on working on creating positive associations with being handled (use a muzzle for extra safety). This should ideally be started as pups, but it helps to keep on holding ongoing sessions. https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/exercises-to-teach-puppies-to-tolerate-touch/ 

-For fear of vaccines, it's hard to replicate them of course, but I have found a way to get Petra to at least better tolerate needles better by desensitizing and counterconditioning her at home pretending to use a pencil as if giving "shots." It seemed to work well for some time, until she had a CT scan at the age of 10 and was "sent to the back" without me. This turned out being once again a traumatic event for her and likely undid all of our progress.

Basically, this is what I was doing: I would routinely pretend to give her shots with a pencil, saying "pichuuu!' and feeding her a treat initially simultaneously and then right afterward. Then I moved to using a syringe with no needle. Same exercise. Then I started further desensitizing and counterconditioning her to me giving very slight pinches over her body, feeding treats and making it a fun game. Using a muzzle during these reps, helps to further make it similar to the real thing,  while also adding an extra layer of precaution just in case.

These "mock vaccine practices" along with asking vets if they could give the shots outside (like in the parking lot) helped a whole lot. 

-Ask for outdoor visits

I will never forget one marvelous vet who came out towards our car and pet Petra and then quickly gave her a shot as she was wiggly into greeting mode (she loved men!), before she could even realize what he was doing. I still kept her muzzle on-just in case, but this was memorable because there was zero restraint. More and more vets now offer visits outside.

-If there is fear of restraint, it may help practicing restrain at home in an open area working in baby steps, from very loose restraint, barely holding to gradually tighter, always working under threshold. A helper can praise and feed when restrained and treat delivery/praise would stop when the restraint is over with the purpose of obtaining a positive conditioned emotional response. For safety, once again, best to use a muzzle just in case. 

-If you can be around for vet visits, ask your vet if while they restrain him, you can feed him treats. My vets like it because it keeps my foster dogs busy. If for some reason the dog had to stay very still (like for a blood draw from the jugular) I would just hold some high value food in my hand closed as if my hand was Kong and let my dog sniff and acknowledge I had the goodie. This would build anticipation. Once free from restraint, my dogs would party happily and I would open my hand and give the food.  Here is the guide for the Hand-held Kong trick: https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/my-hand-made-kong-trick/

-Look for a fear-free vet. I don't think there are any in France, but in the US they are gaining more and more popularity. If not, you may need to ask around and look for honest reviews and see if you can identify vets who have knowledge in how to work with dogs who are fearful at the vet. Taking these dogs to the back room is often not the answer. The root cause needs tackled. 

https://fearfreepets.com/dont-leave-take-pets-back/

-Meds can help too

If the fear is intense, or the procedure remains somewhat aversive no matter what, consider that sedatives given prior to the appointment can help. 

https://fearfreepets.com/calming-pet-owners-concerns-sedation/

https://fearfreepets.com/benefits-clinic-sedation-fear-free-practice/

Finally, an interesting trait of the Finnish Lapphund is the fact these dogs are blessed with a strong startle reflex. While this may sound like a problem, it's actually a blessing considering that herding large reindeer wasn't without risk.

Just consider how important it was to avoid the antlers of reindeers. Despite their reputation for pulling Santa's sleigh, reindeers are flighty animals which can do lots of damage by turning and trying to trample the herding dogs.  A mere touch would therefore have Lappies startle quickly enough to move away and get themselves out of a sticky situation. Who knows, there may be chances that Loki's reaction is carried out so as to avoid the  vet's "antlers" in other words the "needle prick" and he's just doing so out of instinct. 

I hope this helps you and Loki!

Best wishes and happy training!

Best,

Adrienne