Teaching "speak" prior to teaching "quiet"

[[email protected]]

I have seen some people suggest that it is easier to teach "quiet" by first teaching the "speak" command. Is this effective? It has been suggested to me by a number of people, but the absence of it on this site made me wonder whether it is not as effective (or for some reason should not be taught) as I thought?

My 9 month old mutt is generally well-behaved and has basic obedience commands down reasonably well. We have only just started Module 4 of the course, and she is taking to the exercises wonderfully. 

The biggest behavioural 'problem' I have that has persisted over these past months is barking, mainly at noises outside the house. I have tried a number of things, including those in the 'barking' section of 'behaviour problems' on this site, and they certainly SEEM to be helping, but the barking still happens. If anything, it is just getting a bit easier to interrupt her once she starts. She doesn't seem to understand at all that "quiet" means "not barking", despite me constantly rewarding her for being quiet after barking. 

Should I just accept that I am going to have to constantly be redirecting her to slowly train this behaviour out of her? I really fear that I am inadvertently training my dog to turn her "barking at nothing" or "barking at outside sounds" (i.e. territorial) behaviour, into "attention seeking" behaviour as I try to reward her for being quiet, and constantly engage her by redirecting to perform other commands any time she barks. 

[JMFS]

I once asked this!  The answer was, "be careful what you wish for."  Some dogs might associate "speak" with treats and end up barking More.

Instead, I went with training against the specific triggers.  E.g., the trash pick up or UPS (she's not against FedEx for some reason, lmao!).  When the trash guys or UPS come by I get her to look, then I say, "friend" and gave her a treat.  That worked moderately well, and I will admit I am not 100% fluent with it.

Eventually you'll fade out the reward.  We bumped into that when training our reactive dog at group class.  She's dog and human reactive and our trainers put us next to the windows and the front door (but a safe distance away) because she'd spent 5 weeks with them in Boot Camp and was already trained for this.  But, because the dynamic changed (it was us instead of the trainers holding her leash) people would come in and she'd bark, so we'd lure her away with a treat followed by cheers and a jackpot of treats.  Eventually the trainer said, "alright, this just became a game to her," because she started watching the door just Waiting for the catalyst to the treat.  It can be a task, for sure.  Adrienne can help you get it fine-tuned, though!

It does get better as they mature as well.  For us, sometimes it's a matter of showing them what they're barking at, but only after they've stopped barking.  Our pool guy is a good example.  Gertie (our "never met a stranger" dog) kept chuffing when she'd hear him clanking around.  I took her to the door to show her it was 'just our friend," and that stopped the noises.  Since she stopped for a solid minute, I took her outside to go see him.  That was like an extra reward for being quiet.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Your concerns are valid. 

Some trainers advocate teaching "speak" first, because it can allow owners to gain control over barking by creating a structured way for dogs to understand when barking is acceptable and when it isn’t. However, this method doesn’t work universally, and for dogs who are already prone to barking, teaching "speak" may accidentally reinforce it as a go-to behavior, making it more challenging to manage. There are also risks for behavior chain to form if we aren't careful. If we reward the dog shortly after barking, smart dogs may basically learn that if they bark, and then stay quiet for a bit, they'll get a treat. 

With barking at outdoor noises, my go-to methods are:

-Managing the environment to reduce exposure to those triggers. You can use sound machines, keeping certain windows closed, or adjusting where she spends her time during peak noise hours. When barking is less frequent, it becomes easier to work on modifying her reaction to those sounds.

-Gradually desensitizing to the sounds. Look up the "hear that" method. This method is based on desensitization and counterconditioning exercises—where you gradually expose your dog to low levels of the sounds that typically trigger her barking. To work well, you need to be extra quick in tossing the treats before your dog even has a chance to bark. Here is the link: https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/fear-noises/

With time, she should react less and look in your direction more. This is often sign of a positive conditioned emotional response:https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/conditioned-emotional-response-cer/

You can even use your dog's kibble if your dog likes it, rather than giving it away for "free" during mealtime. Tossing the kibble at a distance from you gives also a little nice workout.