German Shepherd bitting

[luminagtp]

Hello! Im new here! So, lets cut to the chase, i got two german shepherd dogs. The male sitting at 1 year 6 months old and the female just got to one year.

 

When i got the female we didn't let her out till she had all reinforcements since there was parvovirus all over the island.

 

So finally around 5 months we started taking them both out. The very first day we took them both out any dog that came near her the male instantly attacks it. Now 7 months later he is still doing this, I've tried and he makes a few doggy friends but most of them end up with my dog attacking them. Also the female barks and he immediately attacks.

 

The behavior is seen more with a leash than without it.

 

The male is very job oriented so I believe with the right method he'll come around.

 

Thank you guys!

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Hi Luminagtp,

Welcome the the forums!

I would like some more information. These questions are simply to gather more information about your dogs' behavior history (in other words, if you don't know what happens in the below scenarios, don't try to expose your dogs to these situations just to see how it goes.)

 

How is your male on and off leash with other dogs alone (without the female dog around)?

How are your male and female off leash with other dogs when they are together?

When you state he has some doggy friends are these encountered on leash or off leash? at a dog park? and is your female around and he doesn't seem to mind?

When you say he attacks other dogs what are you seeing (growling, lunging, biting?) And if biting any history of injuries?

Are they both intact or are they spayed and neutered?

Does you male seem to attack more intact males? or does he do so with any dog regardless of gender and reproductive status?

Are they walked both together by one person? or one dog per person?

How does your male dog react to other dogs approaching when your female is not around?

Thanks!

Edited March 1, 2019 by Adrienne Farricelli

[luminagtp]

How is your male on and off leash with other dogs alone (without the female dog around)? Alone it hasn't happened. We always go together.

 

How are your male and female off leash with other dogs when they are together? The female always wants to play and she overcomes other dogs until her drive to play with them goes down. Other dogs may not accept her friendlyness and may attack her? If it happens, Then the male sees it and protects her. He attacks if she is attacked. But, the recall is very very strong with him and he stops and comes to me.

 

When you state he has some doggy friends are these encountered on leash or off leash? Just once off leach.

 

At a dog park? Yes.

 

and is your female around and he doesn't seem to mind? She is always around so we don't know if she is triggering it.

 

When you say he attacks other dogs what are you seeing (growling, lunging, biting?) He stays put and out of nowhere he tries to bite other dogs.

 

And if biting any history of injuries? He bit me. We rescued another german shepherd. As per our friend (who works at petsmart as a trainer) he told me to use the fence and try and walk them with the fence on the way. He tried to bite the dog and i pulled on him. He bit me hard and i have a huge bruise to show as we speak.

 

Are they both intact or are they spayed and neutered? Intact.

 

Does you male seem to attack more intact males? or does he do so with any dog regardless of gender and reproductive status? This doesn't seem to matter.

 

Are they walked both together by one person? or one dog per person? Both. We switch dogs. Wife sometimes walks them both when i arrive late from work. I could say she has walked both around 5 times since they're together.

 

How does your male dog react to other dogs approaching when your female is not around? We dont know. They're always together.

 

Hope this helps! Thank you!

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Thank you for the additional details, they are very helpful.

It sounds like from your description that your male dog may be exhibiting distance-increasing behaviors (behaviors meant to increase distance and send other dogs away) and that this behavior is contingent upon other dogs approaching during walks. Based on the fact that both dogs are walked together, it may be a bit challenging without seeing the behavior to pinpoint whether this behavior is contingent upon dogs approaching the female GSD in particular, or just the mere fact of them simply approaching.

 

There are two contributing factors that may cause this behavior:

 

1) the isolation required for preventing infectious diseases can cause dogs to miss out the important window of socialization (that closes around 12 to 16 weeks) which should include (among many other things) play with other puppies/exposure to dogs in a potentially "safe" environment (e.g. puppy socialization classes where great emphasis is put in disinfecting floors and surfaces and requiring proof of initial vaccinations)

 

2) The effect of hormones: With your male being 1.6 and your female now 1 year, there are many things going on at a hormonal level. Your female most likely went into heat (or is about to for those few late cases) and these hormonal fluctuations may play a role into the behavior you may be seeing. If your dog is truly protective of your female, the protective behavior may exacerbate in those three weeks when the female dog is in heat. I know of some breeders who cannot walk their dams and studs together for the simple fact that the males act protective and this happens as well when the female dog is in anestrus.

 

Setting hormones aside, it can sometimes still happen that a male dog may instinctively feel the need to act protective of a female dog if she is perceived as a resource that is worthy of protecting. The male dog may have a strong emotional attachment to the female dog (he plays with her, has strongly bonded with her), but there may also be still some elements connected to instinctive competitiveness over the mere fact that she is a female. When such dogs are neutered, competitiveness towards other males may reduce, but there are always learned components when it comes to behavior that may persist.

 

And then we must consider that sometimes dog behavior can be deceiving. It may happen that what looks like protectiveness is actually simply a matter of the dog not being comfortable with other dogs being around. For instance, if you walk your male and female dogs together and your male acts defensive every time another dog comes close, there may be chances that he's not really acting protective of the female dog, but just doesn't appreciate the proximity of other dogs.

 

A way to test this theory is to see how the male dog behaves when walked alone with the female dog no longer around. Of course, this trial can't provide 100 percent reliability considering that strongly rehearsed dog behaviors may repeat and generalize to the point of occurring even in absence of the inciting original trigger, however, it's surely something interesting to test out.

 

Another differential to consider, especially if the behavior happens mostly on leash, is barrier frustration. These dogs may seem like they are acting protective or aggressive, but they are just frustrated about the fact that they can't be free to go meet and play with other dogs. They will therefore bark and lunge and even bite if they are aroused enough. These dogs are normally very friendly with other dogs when off leash, and have a great history of playing well with them with no incidents. Now, your male sounds like he has an history of a attacking during play, but we are not sure if this would have happened if your female dog was not there.

Edited March 2, 2019 by Adrienne Farricelli

[Adrienne Farricelli]

As seen, things can be quite complex at times when it comes to deciphering behavior!Here are some ideas that come to mind, but these are just general ways of tackling behaviors we are not too sure about what may be triggering them.

 

1) Since it sounds like the female dog on walks sets off the alarm (barking) and your male dog is very responsive to it, it would be ideal walking both dogs separately at least until they have better impulse control and their emotions are better under check. I know this is a pain but it really helps set the foundation that is needed.

 

2) During walks, it would be important training each dog to not react to other dogs approaching. This can be easier said than done though if you live in an area where there are off leash dogs. This is my big pet peeve. Off leash dogs are know for ruining some good training and even undoing years of training in service dogs. A good starting point is therefore finding an area where dogs are mostly walked on leash (where leash laws are in place) or dogs are behind property fences and to practice initially in these areas.

 

3) When practicing in these areas it's important that each dog is under threshold on their initial individual walks. When is a dog over threshold? It's that point where your dog is no longer capable of obeying your commands and appears to no longer have a brain. When your dog reaches this point of no return, you can try to pull, yank, shout and even dangle a juicy piece of steak as much as you can, but it does not seem to make its way to your dog's brain. It almost looks like all the circuits are off and the brain is unplugged. Working your dog over the threshold, will not help your dog learn anything other than rehearsing the undesired behaviors. Dogs learn best when they are put into a situation where they can cognitively function. In order to resume some reasoning, therefore you need to work UNDER the threshold. This often means keeping initially distance from other dogs. Just taking a step back can help regain some control. Here is a general guide on dog threshold levels:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/threshold-levels/

 

 

4) Train focus commands that offer an alternate behavior to the barking for your female. Exercises such as Look at That or Open bar/closed bar which aim to change the emotional response at the sight of other dogs are likely a good starting point for your female. Attention heeling may benefit your male if he doesn't show signs of being reactive to other dogs when being walked alone. Your female may too be trained in attention heeling once she is has shown the ability to associate the presence of other dogs with good things (high-value treats)

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/university/look-at-that/

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/open-bar-closed-bar/

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/obedience-101/heeling-attention-heeling/

 

Practice these a lot at home, then in the yard. You need to make the behavior extra fluent before going on walks.

 

5) Make sure you use high value treats. On walks, they have to be very, very high-value treats. Consider that what works at home and in the yard, won't likely work in overly stimulating environments. You may also find it helpful coordinating the sessions when your dog's stomach is empty so to increase saliency of the treats. A full tummy is not very motivating.

 

6) Gauge progress and setbacks. If your dogs shows signs of progress from a certain distance for some time, then it's likely time to reduce distance. You must very gradually, work your way up to more distracting environments with dogs at a closer distance where your dog still doesn't react. If your dog loses focus on you, consider that he/she might not be ready for that certain level of distraction or he may be tired if you have practiced too long. Take a few steps back and resume from there or end the training on a positive note and resume the training another day.

 

7) Daily walks. While distance can help keep a dog better under threshold so does frequency of walks and practicing often. Daily walks are important. Seeing dogs only every now and then increases their saliency. There is a phenomenon known as "suburban dog syndrome" which takes place in dogs who live in suburban areas and are reactive to seeing dogs because they are not frequent sights. If you walk your dog only on weekends or every now and then, things get more difficult. A daily walk or two, even if short (10-15 minutes) and just seeing one dog at a distance and your dog showing a bit of progress can suffix and you can call it a day.

 

8) If dogs are off leash and coming close, you may want to train the emergency u- turn to avoid your dog from going over threshold. https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/emergency-u-turn/

 

9)Once there is progress, practice with a friend with a mellow dog (or even better, a dog trainer who has a bomb-proof dog). Only do this if your dogs have proven themselves doing well seeing other dogs on walks. Have him/her hold her/his dog on leash at a distance your dog is under threshold and practice the alternate behavior exercises. If all goes well, over several sessions, you can gradually decrease distance and perhaps do parallel-walking exercises with you on one sidewalk and your friend on the opposite sidewalk.

 

10) Once both your dogs are doing well on their solo walks and then with the help of a friend/dog trainer with a mellow dog, then it may be possible to add the distraction of each other dog (always one dog per handler!) and practice again walking with a friend with a mellow dog with the dogs initially having distance and then gradually closing the gap paying attention to body language and preventing setbacks. All dogs should be well under control. A front-attachment harness like the Easy Walk harness may help.

 

11) It might be best avoiding non-organized group play as in dogs parks as it appears that these induce fighting. Many dogs like to play the "fun police" role and this takes place when a dog sees conflict among two dogs and comes rushing and getting in between to stop the two fighting parties. Often though this may lead to more trouble with the end result of three fighting dogs. GSD like Rottweilers often tends to become more "serious" as they mature and may no longer do too well mingling with a bunch of stranger dogs or rowdy dogs. Some dogs do best with a few playmates who have proven to get along and share similar play styles, but it might be best to avoid play sessions with both your female and male dog present together if these have a history of leading to squabbles. Consider as well that many neutered dogs dislike intact male dogs and intact male dogs are often attacked.

 

Now, I must emphasize that behavior modification for reactivity towards other dogs is quite a complex process. There are risks for setbacks if we don't have a very controlled setting and if dogs may fight, there are always risks for a redirected bite to the owners/handlers when attempting to separate them. For this reason, the safest and best option is to hire a behavior professional using humane, force-free behavior modification. This may also be the best option since we do not know with certainty if your male GSD dog is truly acting protective of the female dog or whether there are other dynamics going on. A behavior consultant (generally not a dog trainer, unless it's one very well versed in behavior and behavior modification) is the best person to assess/evaluate the behavior and propose a behavior modification protocol based on his/her in-person observations.

 

I hope this helps!

Best,

Adrienne

 

Disclaimer: behavior modification comes with risks. If your dog is showing signs of aggression, please consult with a behavior professional for safety and correct behavior modification implementation based on an in-person assessment/observation.

Edited March 2, 2019 by Adrienne Farricelli

[luminagtp]

Hello! This is very informative! Before trying anything on your list. I went ahead and went on a walk with my dog only. He met 3 dogs on the walk. Nothing. Then i went 4 hours to petsmart and he met 7 dogs which he met and was fine. Only one pup took his ball and he barked at it. So i went a step further. I called one of his buddies which he had previously attacked and they were playing for like an hour. No attacks. To be honest i believe its protecting the female.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Thanks for this update: it sounds like that or he's feeding off her emotions when she sounds the alarm (when dogs are walked together they tend to feed off each others' emotions) or perhaps a combo of both factors. It's nice to hear he's been behaving so nicely with all these dogs!

[luminagtp]

So i will apply these methods! I'll get back to you in a few days. His recall is very very strong now. Ive added a few modifications and pushing for more distractions. On a hallway around 30 feet ive recalled him with the female in the way, my wife, food & 3 of his favorite toys.

 

I think this is happening.

 

"Setting hormones aside, it can sometimes still happen that a male dog may instinctively feel the need to act protective of a female dog if she is perceived as a resource that is worthy of protecting. The male dog may have a strong emotional attachment to the female dog (he plays with her, has strongly bonded with her), but there may also be still some elements connected to instinctive competitiveness over the mere fact that she is a female."

 

I will try to see the thresholds of my dog before doing anything else.

 

Female is ok. Just need to work more on her focus with me & stop the way she reacts to other dogs. I do thank you for all the knowledge you've pass to me!

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Sounds like a plan! Keep me posted on how things go,

Best,

Adrienne