Take It/Drop It

[d.dodson45]

I have a 2-yr-old Borador (Border Collie/Lab mix) Newton who is an eager learner as long as our sessions are fairly short and fast moving; anyway, with the "Take It" exercise he's never been inclined to hold anything in his mouth for any length of time unless it's a ball or toy being used in a game of fetch or tug. When I try to get him to pick up a toy that I'm not waving around inciting a game he picks it up in his mouth for a split second, gives his head a nod and flips it out of his mouth in my general direction. Can't get him to maintain that hold in order to progress to carrying something for me or going to retrieve something. (The "retriever" part of his Laborador genes seems to have gotten lost somehow! LOL) What can I do to encourage him to take up and hold an object in his mouth for a period of time? Thanks!

[JMFS]

Omigosh! How is his energy level?! Two of the most hyper breeds in one, lol. With him flipping it towards you it sounds like he's trying to engage, but I'm not sure. He could be saying, "You do it, Human.' :D

 

I'll be interested to see the answer on this one because Gertie also doesn't tend to take items other than food, and even then she'll sniff it first if it's something new.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

I can feel you frustration. Some dogs are VERY hesitant in holding toys for more than a split second. This can be a matter of texture, or just simply the dog is not particularly predisposed to being "mouthy" or the behavior may have been suppressed non-intently. Holding is a foundation skill taught in service dog training and often it's one of the most challenging things to train if the dog is not inclined to it.

 

"Take" which is picking up an item with the mouth is much different to dogs compared to "hold" which is more challenging as it involves raising criteria because you are basically adding duration to the pick up. So if your dog "takes" even for a split second, I would consider that sufficient for the exercise outlined in the take-it/drop exercises in Obedience 101.

 

For a good reason brain games involving "holding" (such as picking up toys, carrying them and placing them in the basket) are placed at the Einstein level. In dog training, formal "holds" are often trained in advanced training such as bird dog training, service dog training and in Schutzhund (dogs carrying a dumbbell in their mouth and even doing hurdle jumps). It's something that takes time to master unless the dog is naturally predisposed to holding and retrieving in which case it can be moderate-to-easy to train.

 

If you decide to pursue training longer holds either for advanced training of tricks or retrieves, please be patient, go at your dog's pace and never show frustration as that is how many dogs become even more reluctant because we deliver conflicting information with our bodies. I always suggest to have fun with it and just see how it goes rather than having high expectations as that often makes the process tedious or tense. I will be sharing some tips on training hold in my next post shortly.

Edited March 24, 2019 by Adrienne Farricelli

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Many dogs have a natural inclination in picking up a toy and walking around with it, but things get problematic when we want the dog to perform these actions on cue. Why is that? Perhaps, the challenge occurs because dogs are used to being clicked and rewarded for motion behaviors, and dogs don't perceive holding an item in the mouth as a behavior. It's more of a static thing. Or maybe, some dogs are just not that great in multi-tasking (many dogs may hold but have trouble holding while walking) and a retrieve to us may seem like just one behavior while it really encompasses several behaviors chained together.

 

There is really no rule set in stone on how to train a formal "hold" and often it takes multiple tries of different approach and see what works best. One of my service dog fosters, did well wit reverse luring. Einstein did best with back-chaining. Consider that dogs may take days, weeks or months to learn formal holds and retrieves when they are not naturally predisposed. Sometimes though, you may be surprised when you're rewarded earlier. The intervention of a professional specializing in advanced dog training may be needed for in-person coaching and troubleshooting in stubborn cases (not the dog being stubborn, the training just progressing slow).

 

Following are different ways to train a dog to hold an object. Choice of one over the other may ultimately may boil down to what the final goal is. Do you just want your dog to hold an object in his mouth and just sit still or do you want him walk around carrying it? Is it part of a retrieve? Then other components will need to be added.

 

Using Forward Chaining

 

This is the typical way dog owners attempt to train their dog to hold a toy and come to them carrying the toy. It might work well in dogs with a strong predisposition to retrieve stuff, but not all dogs are blessed with these instincts. This training method is one of the main reasons why dog owners often get frustrated in training dogs to retrieve items because it has a chance for failure. It involves training a chain of behaviors including picking up the item, holding while walking and dropping.

 

Simply wiggle the toy to stimulate your dog's prey drive and then toss the toy in front of you in a hallway preferably so that your dog's only option is to turn around and move towards you. If you want to build anticipation, you can try holding on to your dog's collar (avoid this if your dog resents being held by the collar) as you toss the toy. As soon as your dog moves a bit as he is ready to run, say "get it! or 'take"" pointing at the toy while letting go of the collar. Walk backwards as the dog comes back towards you, (you can then "say drop it"-if needed) and trade the ball for a second ball that is tossed again.

 

 

Back Chaining Method

 

A dumbbell (some dog owners use a wooden spoon) or a long toy comes extra handy for this task because it's easy to grasp and the owner can easily hold on to one side. Dumbbells are often used for formal bird dog training and in the sport of Schuhtzhund.

 

Backchaining is one of the best methods to train a dog to hold a toy and bring it to you. You would start by sitting down and holding the dumbbell/or other chose item and click/reward for duration when the dog mouths it. Moving the dumbbell slightly as the dog mouths it can help trigger a bit of opposition reflex, enticing the dog to hold on more strongly as it happens with tug (watch your fingers! and avoid doing this with dogs who resource guard things!).

 

The goal is to reach mouthing lasting 5 seconds, at which point, after several reps of five seconds, you can start trying to take your hand away briefly and click reward for holding it without the hands on it. Fade your hands holding the dumbbell gradually, maybe starting removing one hand and then the other very quickly for split seconds at first.

 

Afterward, add some criteria. The goal is creating some muscle memory of the dog reaching down with the head and then lifting the head up while holding the dumbbell. To accomplish this, move the dumbbell gradually closer and closer to the floor while it's still in your hands and lift it up slightly as your dog is holding it, click/reward. At some point, when it's on the ground and your dog mouths it, lift it and click/reward, and the next time, let go of it briefly: your dog will likely mouth it and lift it up slightly putting it back in your hands. Next, you can add some distance. Place the dumbbell on the floor but a bit more distant gradually increasing distance.

 

The Reverse Luring Method

 

This method is mentioned in the book "Retrieving for All Occasions: Foundations for Excellence in Gun Dog Training" by Elsa Blomster, Lena Gunnarsson. Reverse luring is the total opposite of luring. In luring, you use the presence of food to get the dog to perform a desired behavior. In reverse luring, you use the presence of food to prevent your dog from performing an undesirable behavior. In this case, the undesirable behavior is dropping the dumbbell.

 

This method focuses on adding the distraction of the food (to keep the dog from focusing on the item being held in the mouth) while providing a strong feedback system. Simply, present the dumbbell, when your dog picks up the toy or dumbbell, you present your open hand with a treat in it. If your dog drops the dumbbell to get the treat you say "oops!"and close your hand or move it away. Try again, present the dumbbell, when your dog picks up the toy or dumbbell, you present your open hand with a treat in it. If your dog shows any attempt to drop the dumbbell you move your hand away. When your dog holds it for a second, you click (or say "yes!") and give the treat. You then progress gradually.

 

Some troubleshooting tips:

 

-Use differential reinforcement. Start clicking and rewarding only the longer holds. Set a criteria. Start with clicking and rewarding 1 second holds, then 2 seconds and so forth. Your dog may get initially a bit frustrated as first when the brief split second holds go unrewarded. This frustration though often will lead to the dog trying harder. Don't ask too much though or your dog may give up. Make sure as you progress to longer holds that mix in some shorter ones every now and then or your dog may pick up a pattern of things getting more difficult, leading to fatigue and frustration.

-If your dog knows the "drop it" cue, you can work on getting a better hold using that as he'll be waiting for your cue. Start to always cue "drop it" right before it happens, click/treat. Once the dog associates the "drop it" with the reward, it becomes pretty easy to stretch out some duration.

-Consider that dogs not be too eager to hold items in their mouth if they dislike the texture or if their gums are sore due to gum disease or dental problems.

 

Hope this helps!

Edited March 24, 2019 by Adrienne Farricelli