My two dogs fight

[aaron_32_m]

I have two dogs Yoshi (a 2 year old puggle girl) and Roo (an 8 month old Australian cattle mix girl) and they just don’t get along all the time. Sometimes they will fight given certain circumstances (like going for the same toy, being on my lap and being territorial, one being in the bed before the other, or Roo biting yoshis ankle trying to play and Yoshi not wanting to play) how can I train them to stop fighting and not do this to each other?

[JMFS]

Hi Aaron,

 

Here's something to get you started:

 

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/forum/showthread.php?129-Self-handicapping-with-Abbi&highlight=handicap

 

Mine didn't fight, per se, Gertie mostly steamrolled over Abbi. Regardless, I think the approach to rectify your situation will have similar components so I'm tossing it in here. Abbi is considerably older than Yoshi, but still, a young pup with boundless energy (especially Australian Cattle mix) is likely to annoy even a 2-yr old. Gertie still occasionally gets in Abbi's face and starts wiggling all around, trying to entice Abbi into playing, or she'll plop her big ol' paw onto Abbi (45 lbs vs 10 lbs, you can imagine how well that goes over). Last weekend we had an incident when we were working in the yard. Gertie was engaging Monkey (our cat) into play and Abbi, being the fun police, inserted herself into the fray and started attacking Gertie. Abbi sucks sometimes. We addressed it by separating Gertie and Abbi and life went back to normal. Had it occurred again I'd have thrown Abbi inside since she was the instigator and Gertie was behaving (mostly - the cat is sometimes open to play and sometimes not at all, this was a not at all day). If Gertie had started it I would have put her on her 50 ft lead and tied her to me so she would be within reach and I could reel her in like a fish if she didn't respond to my voice or whistle.

 

Momo is a jerk with toys (mostly food toys like Kongs), and unlike Abbi he can actually hurt someone, so I address that by putting him in a crate with a long lasting treat. He's also not allowed into the office where Gertie's toys are all over her bed. It's easiest to address an issue by taking away the opportunity for an issue to arise. :) On rare occasions he wants to be inside with us so I'll put away all the toys before bringing him in.

 

Is it normally Yoshi who's in your lap and being territorial of you? I ask because I'm guessing that's the dog who fits in your lap the best. Mo used to growl at Gertie when she'd come up to me while I was scratching Momo. I resolved that by giving Mo treats when Gertie would come near so now he thinks Gertie = treats. Abbi still does it because Abbi is a grumpus (and rightly so - she's saturated with arthritis) so husband sits between them and he moves Gertrude back over to her side if she does her sneaky slow wiggle over to Abbi's side bit. Abbi's tolerance of Gertrude is unpredictable so separation is the best bet with her.

 

So there's a bit of info from someone who's been managing it for a year now. We're mostly settled around here nowadays and it calmed down significantly about 3-4 months after Gertie came home. Not long after I created that post and subsequently applied Adrienne's advice.

[aaron_32_m]

I’m give a run down of all the times a fight is likely to occur between the two dogs and maybe that will help shed some light on what may be some of our issues. When Yoshi sits on my lap. When we’re all in the bed together. When Yoshi or Roo are trying to get into the door first. When Roo or Yoshi have to much energy and can’t control themselves. There are plenty of times where they are fine and we have no issues whatsoever (and sometimes they even play really well together) but that’s when we have been able to walk them and get some energy out of them.

 

So I think for Yoshi it’s a lot of territorialness or overprotectiveness. For Roo I think it’s too much puppy for Yoshi to handle. Any suggestions to answer that specifically would be great. Also my email alerts aren’t working so if you’d like to send me and email to notify of the reply I would be really grateful, thank you! [email protected]

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Hello and welcome to the forums,

There are "fights" and fights among dogs. Several times, it's just noise and just conflict resolution albeit noisy (dogs using "their words to avoid escalation to bodily injury) other times there are actual serious threats with dogs potentially following through and really risking harming each other. Of course, this latter is really a concern. Among female dogs sometimes fights can get quite serious especially when they reach doggy adolescence/social maturity.

 

What to do about this varies based on various factors. For many minor cases, all that may be needed is just letting dogs be as long as they find an agreement (Einstein and Petra growled at each when in possession of resources for most of their lives but they never got into a serious fight as they communicated well and didn't push each other's boundaries) to redirection by training dogs to be responsive to certain cues and implementation of behavior modification with the help of a professional (for example, Dog A is fed tasty treats, every time Dog B is on the lap), to management by providing distance or separation when resources are provided (as Jennifer pointed out), up to rehoming one dog in the most severe cases where there are risks for injuries or dogs being emotionally scarred.

 

In multi-dog households there may be several dynamics going on and things can get complex at times, hence why it's always best when there are fights among dogs to have a behavior professional using force-free methods to assess and provide in-person guidance for safety and correct implementation of behavior modification.

 

Other two threads that may be of interest that tackle guarding resources among dogs with management and behavior modification samples are the following:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/forum/showthread.php?176-Stealing-recall-walking

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/forum/showthread.php?71-My-dog-gets-quot-aggressive-quot-with-toys-around-other-dogs

 

Let me know if you have any questions.

Best,

Adrienne

Edited May 29, 2019 by Adrienne Farricelli

[linda.brierley]

Hi. I look after my son's 2 dogs in the week when he and his wife are at work. Ernie is a 2yr old morkie and Vera (we aren't sure what she is or her real age). Vera was a rescue last year and her paper's said she was 2 years old but their own vet said she was more like 8 months.

I don't know if it's a kind of jealousy on Ernie's part being the first dog for a year before Vera came along, but some days they get doing really well. But when I have bought them new toys or chew treats, he won't let her have hers. And she knows it..he takes hers and won't let her near them. Even sharing me can be a big issue too. It just escalates from nothing to fighting so bad I have to split them up. . It's horrible to watch and listen as it really sounds like they want to kill each other. Vera's gum are so pale after a fight it obviously frightens her.

I have stopped buying chew bones or

anything individual. I just don't know what to do to stop it from happening. Ernie is also dog reactive, since a dog (off lead) that was (friendly) according to the man, got into Ernie's space which frightened him so they were attempting to fight.

Unbeknown to me, the same dog was living next door (new neighbours) so every time he hears the dog, Ernie goes ballistic running along the fence line. They can't see each other but if Vera runs out to join in the barking, he redirects his aggression towards her..I've tried talking calmly to him which sometimes works if I catch it before it escalates. I've tried getting him inside and giving him a treat if he comes back in. It's just hit and miss at the minute. Any help would be grateful.

Thanks

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Hello and welcome to the forums,

Dogs who resource guard food, toys, people etc. do best with strict management, but if you can afford it, behavior modification with the help of a professional who comes in person to your home may be the next best thing considering that it can be difficult to always strictly adhere to management. Working on fear, anxiety, reactivity and aggression such as fights occurring among dogs sharing the household falls more under behavior modification rather than training.

 

Training involves mostly teaching operant behaviors such as training dogs to sit, down, stay, heel, come etc. These skills can surely come handy in behavior modification when trained very fluently (like calling the dogs to you the moment you notice the first signs of a fight about to erupt), but if we don't change a dog's underlying emotions, it may be difficult grabbing their attention considering that they'll likely be too focused on each other and over threshold to be capable to listen. By presenting stimuli or situations in a less intense form and changing a dog's emotional response (through desensitization and counterconditioning), behavior modification paves the path towards learning so that the dogs can be better able to cognitively function.

 

So let's look at some options:

 

1) Strict management. In your case, we know that new toys or chew treats are triggers. So management in this would mean a)not giving them any new toys or chew treats or b) giving them in a way that Ernie is prevented from rehearsing the resource guarding/ stealing behavior. This can be accomplished in several ways:

 

For chew treats:

 

-Each dogs is given a new chew treat while they are in their own separate crates placed at a distance from each other.

-One dog is given a new chew treat while in the yard, while the other dog enjoys it inside the home (yard door is obviously closed so they can never get in close contact)

-One dog is given a new chew treat while the other dog is walked, and then the other dog is walked, and the other enjoys the chew treat.

 

For new toys:

 

-Each dog is given a new toy to enjoy in different areas of the home but with a baby gate between them. Dogs are always supervised to redirect and prevent "discussions."

 

For fighting over you:

 

-Identify triggers. If they fight over your attention, give no attention to each dog in presence of the other. This means no petting, talking to a particular dog, when the dogs are together. Attention can be given when they are separated (and preferably out of sight of each other). Also, another family member can be in the yard playing/petting/giving attention to one dog, while another member gives attention to the other.

 

Although management is ideal because it prevents rehearsal of the troublesome behavior (the more Ernie engages in resource guarding, the more it puts roots and establishes), implementing it can be at times challenging. It is mostly challenging when the exact triggers cannot be predicted (fights occur over things that cannot be easily removed) and because accidents may always happen (a door is kept accidentally ajar, a crate isn't latched, the dog jump over a barrier meant to separate the dogs).

 

The other option is training. When fights are mild, and dog owners can always actively supervise, it is possible to train the dogs to respond to commands.

 

2) Training. As mentioned, training can work in some cases, but it might not do much in terms of changing emotional responses. In this case, commands that may come handy are the following:

 

-Ernie can be taught to respond to a very fluent "leave it." Both dogs are told to lie down and stay and each dog is given a chew. The moment Ernie is given a toy/chew and Vera has it too, Ernie is repeatedly reminded to "leave it" the moment he attempts to get up and try to steal the chew. Body blocks can sometimes be used to prevent him from moving her way- but not to threaten him, just to block his view of her and encourage him to return to his place.

Here is a guide on leave it:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/obedience-101/take-leave-it/

 

-Ernie and Vera can be taught to enjoy their chews on a mat and they must keep their stay on the mats until they have finished. Caution is needed here though as sometimes dogs may fight over left over crumbs, so if Ernie is done first, encourage him to join you out in the yard, until Vera is done too. Here is a guide on training a dog to stay on a mat:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/video-archive/train-dog-go-to-mat/

 

-For toys, things can be a bit more challenging since toys aren't consumed, so they are longer around increasing the risks for fights. Preventing access to new toys may be best or if chew toys are given, dogs can be given toys behind a baby gate or both dogs can be trained to enjoy them once again on a mat and then the toys are swapped by the owner in exchange for a treat, that once again is given on the mat. The toys are therefore put away.

 

-For attention things again can be challenging. Best to avoid situations that may trigger fights and investing some time in behavior modification.

 

Now, training can work in some mild cases, but it can be difficult at times to implement because 1) dogs may be too focused on each other to listen so there are risks for fights to erupt 2) each dog should be trained each command at a very fluent level initially separately, and then should be able to respond despite the distraction of each other and then despite the distraction of having resources, therefore this takes time, 3) dog owners must be adept in recognizing early signs of a fight about to happen so to redirect at a moment's notice (if you are too late, they may be too over threshold to respond) 4) it requires always active supervision 5) no training is always 100 percent, as much as we train dogs, dogs are not robots so it can happen one day that a dog for some reason or another may not follow our directions.

 

Since it takes time to train a dog to leave it and stay on a mat, for safety, it may help to have Ernie initially tethered (attached to something solid) so you have a back up in case he moves in Vera's direction. Vera may need tethered too in case she happens to get up and move towards him, potentially triggering a fight. Careful in tethering to furniture as dogs may easily pull the furniture with them.

 

3) Behavior modification. This mainly aims in changing the dog's emotional response (going to the root cause) usually through methods based on desensitization and counterconditioning. It should be done with the in-person help of a dog behavior professional using force-free behavior modification for safety and correct implementation considering that behavior modification comes with risks (risks for fights among the dogs, re-directed bites towards the owner). As with training, no guarantees can be offered on the outcome of behavior modification.

 

You can see some examples of behavior modification here:

 

1) Dogs fighting over owner's attention:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/dogs-fighting-over-owner/

 

2) This thread talks about behavior modification for dogs fighting over resources, read it all if possible as it goes in depth on prognostic factors and important considerations:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/forum/showthread.php?249-inter-house-dog-aggression

 

4) Last but not least, it's a good idea to have a back-up plan if fights should erupt and we need to intervene. A loud noise can help such as using an air horn or clashing two pot lids together. It's a good idea to have these always handy. Some dog owners have success ringing a doorbell. Tossing a blanket on the dogs can confuse them enough to no longer pay attention to each other. Touching the dogs to separate them should be avoided as it can put owners at risk for redirected bites. These bites are generally not intentional but more due to the fact that dogs who are fighting are over reactive.

 

So as seen, there are several options. You may find management to work best considering that these dogs are in your home during working hours and that the same effort needed in training and behavior modification may not be continued to be implemented once in their homes and that dogs may have a hard time generalizing certain behaviors from one location to another. Since Vera is impacted so much at an emotional level, keeping them separated may be the best option if the fights are difficult to prevent.

 

 

A disclaimer is warranted here since we are dealing with several forms of aggression: caution is always needed when dealing with cases of aggression. Behavior modification comes with risks and therefore it's important to seek out the assistance of a dog behavior professional for safety and correct implementation. Muzzle training may be needed if there are risks for bites and a management plan is advisable while awaiting the aid of professional.

 

I hope this helps. I will be covering the fence-fighting in my next post.

Edited December 8, 2019 by Adrienne Farricelli

[Adrienne Farricelli]

With fence fighting, this behavior gets quite addicting and the fact he redirects onto Vera is a sign of strong emotional arousal. So we want to prevent this as much as possible though management.

 

Management may entail: 1) arranging different outings by finding an agreement with the neighbor to let the dogs out at different times. This once again is likely the easiest option. 2) letting Ernie out at a separate time from Vera so at least he doesn't redirect towards her, however this would still allow him to rehearse fence fighting. 3) taking Ernie and Vera out at separate times and when Ernie is taken out he is walked on leash at the opposite side of the fence so he doesn't get to rush to the fence and fence fight (caution is needed here though as some dogs are so aroused that touching them or restraining them with a leash may cause them enough frustration to redirect on the owner and bite. )

 

Management may also entail doing a yard check prior to letting Ernie out to ensure this other dog is not out and having a plan in place if you hear the neighbor opening the door to let his dog out (more on this soon).

 

Training and behavior modification may be used too, but once again, we must weigh in the pros and cons (time, commitment, safety etc.).

 

Training may involve teaching once again a strong response to "leave it." Leave it is first trained in the home with no distractions, then nearby the door that takes to the yard, then with the door open, then a bit closer to the fence, but not that close that he's over threshold. High-value treats are needed to reward leave its so to make choosing leaving the other dog a no-brainer. Because Ernie has a history of being food aggressive, for safety, this training should take place away from Vera.

 

Another good training command that can come handy is a strong response to a recall so if you are out in the yard and you hear the neighbor getting ready to or opening the door to let his dog out, you can quickly run to the door and call your dogs inside.

 

Behavior modification would involve creating positive associations with this dog. Does he see the dog ever or just hears him?

If he hears him only, the "hear that" method may help initially. You would therefore keep him initially on leash indoors with the door open and every time he hears this other dog, you would make a smacking sound with your mouth and feed him a treat. Rep after rep, you should see what is known as "conditioned emotional response. " In other words, he looks forward to hearing this dog rather than dreading it. Once again, this should be done away from Vera since it involves use of treats. Here's a read on the hear that method:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/fear-noises/

 

If he sees this other dog, then "look at that" may come handy starting by letting him see him from a window as describe here:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/university/look-at-that/

 

Once again this exercise involves treats, so should be done away from Vera.

 

The ultimate goal of training and behavior mod is to change Ernie's emotional response towards this other dog (hearing him/seeing him) and helping him make good choices. This may take some time though, as you need to assure he's not over threshold, and if goes over, you need to decrease distance from the fence area and practice more from that distance. Also, you must consider a potential "startling effect." If you dog is calmly sniffing in the yard, and this dog comes out at the same time and startles Ernie, you may have a setback. Also, since Vera starts barking too, she may also need worked on, so management may ultimately be the best option (letting them out at different times).

 

Disclaimer: Behavior modification and training meant to tackle dog aggression comes with risks and therefore it's important to seek out the assistance of a dog behavior professional for safety and correct implementation.

Edited December 8, 2019 by Adrienne Farricelli

[linda.brierley]

Thanks so much for your information x

[Adrienne Farricelli]

You are very welcome!Feel free to post here for any updates or further questions.

Best,

Adrienne