2 Puppies get along then one gets upset

[hamerjk]

We have a 5 month old puppy which is a min.Poodle and a 9 month to 1 year old Havennesse. The 9 month old puppy is a rescue pup and has been in a kennel his whole life. The poodle was purchased from a pet store and is bigger than the 9 month old. The problem we are having is the 9 month is starting to play with the 5 month old, Then the 9 month old starts to get upset and starts to fight with the 5 month old over toys or food al of a sudden. We are not sure on what to do to get this under control so the 5 month old poodle does not hurt the other one. Not sure how to break this up? Need some help. Any help would be helpful on how to stop this from going on. The poodle is easy going and shares everything and just wants to play and have fun with the other pup. he will defend himself but does not start the fighting. Then after we break them up they start playing together like nothing ever happen.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Greetings, and welcome to the forums!

So sorry to hear your pups are not getting along! I have a few questions for you to better understand the situation.

 

Have the fights been mostly just noisy or do the dogs actually end up hurting each other? What are they doing when they are fighting? Are the fights very frequent?

Are they both male dogs?

Are the fights over food happening when they are fed? Where are they fed normally? Is food always left around?

When they fight over toys what are the exact dynamics? Is the new puppy coming close to the older puppy when he has a toy?Are they both playing with a toy? Are they both rushing towards the same toy and fight?

Thanks for the details!

Edited September 29, 2019 by Adrienne Farricelli

[hamerjk]

The poodle which is bigger tries to get the other dog to play with him and he is the one who yips sometimes. The fights happen every so often and it is because the rescue dog dows not want the other one to take the toy from him. I tried to give them the same toy but they switch and when the poodle goes by to try to get him to play the other get aggressive and start the fight. Yes they are both males. Yes we feed them in different bowls and are separate but the poodle wants the bowl and the rescue wants to switch that the other has and they switch often and then the rescue starts the fight begins with the rescue dog getting aggressive. The poodle is not aggressive but wants the bowl the other has. They are fed once in the morning and once in the evening The last couple days it has been no fighting over food but I know it will happen again( cannot be this lucky ). They are on their hind legs and teeth are showing then the poodle gets hurt not bad but does yip. Today they have been playing well until the poodle walks away to get a drink and comes back to play and the rescue pup gets where he wants the toy by himself and gets upset and starts the fight. The way we stop it is we take the toy away for the rest of the day. Then a few seconds latter they are playing like nothing happen. I have given them the same toy but they both want the same toy and they switch and the rescue pup starts to growl when the poodle wants to play and gets to close. They will even play with the same toy for a while together play tug a war then the poodle stops to take a drink and come back and the rescue pup start to growl and attack the poodle. I have to take the toy away and then they start playing with each other like nothing happens. I have given them a teething ring of the same type and the poodle takes them both and then we give them each one of the same then the poodle wants the one that the other has and the rescue pup starts to growl when the other is just walking by to get a drink and the fighting begins the rescue dog starts the fight. The poodle is not the one being aggressive he just wants to play with the rescue pup. We have in a month have come a long way with the rescue dog he has started to play, go for walks, become a lot more affectionate with me the past month. I know it will get better but I don't want the fighting to continue because sometime I may not be there quick enough to seperate them and someone will get hurt.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Thank you for the additional details,

When we see altercations among dogs sharing the household things can get quite complex. There can be a variety of dynamics going on, and the best bet is always to have a professional take a thorough history of the dogs assessing the interactions among the dogs in first person and then suggesting a behavior modification protocol based on a variety of individual factors (for example, the level of bite inhibition the dogs have, their age, how severe the fights are, what triggers the fights, owner compliance, time etc).

 

In general, when we see altercations it's important to carefully evaluate what we are truly seeing. For example, we may be dealing with a case of rough play that usually doesn't require intervention, mild altercations that require close monitoring and then more severe ones that require management and some require even separation. I will briefly go though each scenario.

 

In the first scenario, rough play, we need to consider that dogs do play rough and a compounding factor is that when dogs play, they borrow some behaviors and postures that are seen in real fighting (growling, showing teeth, inhibited biting--that doesn't puncture skin). Sometimes yips may be heard when play is too rough, but it's usually not because the dog really gets hurt (other than perhaps a small pinch), but because he's asking the other dog to play less rough. In general, the other dog backs down once hearing that or the other dog leaves for a timeout. For novice dog owners not used to seeing dogs play rough, it may be easy to assume the dogs are fighting. Play fighting over toys is common. One dogs has a toy and teases the other dog. The other dogs tries to get it, and is greeted with loud growls. The other dog may bark in frustration because he wants the toy and will try a variety of tactics to steal it. In general, these are the easiest cases to deal with. Nothing is really needed in most cases other than monitoring and possibly redirection if things are getting rough and one dog is not backing down.

 

In the second scenario, dogs are playing but they get into mild squabbles. At some point, play may get too rough or one dog may decide he is done playing and he wants the toy all for himself. This dog may lie down with it to claim it. Or perhaps, like in your case, he may leave the toy around and go to drink and then rushes towards the toy barking with intensity to tell the other dog to stay away from it or he may get upset the other dog has stolen it.

 

Here's the thing, dogs aren't good at sharing and you can provide hundreds of toys of the same type but one dog will always want the toy the other dogs has. However, in this scenario, although the dogs get into mild squabbles they can be loud and scary, but nobody ever gets hurt, and on top of that, no dog gets emotionally scarred (meaning that no dog starts acting frightened.) What dogs are doing in this case is "using their words." They are engaging in ritualized aggression, they are basically trying to solve conflict without harm. One dog gives a warning growl and the other dog gets the message. These cases can be tackled using close management, close monitoring and redirection.

 

Then we have the more serious altercations. The fights occur frequently, almost on a daily basis, dogs have little bite inhibition and cause puncture wounds. One or both dogs may be emotionally scarred, meaning that they become hesitant to interact or they may get tense. These cases require strict management, and possibly, separation of both dogs. Often more serious fights over toys happen when one dog is in possession of a toy or food and growls, and the other dog ignores the warning and doesn't back down.

 

Your case sounds like it falls in the middle, although of course, I cannot evaluate accurately. So here are few tips that come to mind. Let's start with the food bowl issue.

 

1) Management of feeding area. It is stressful for dogs to eat too close together, but more than closeness, there's nothing more stressful than dogs getting into each others' bowls. So if you can place a barrier of some type in between them or feed them in separate areas that would be great. Here's the thing: if we keep the dogs rehearsing the food guarding, the behavior will put roots and persist. Tension during mealtimes tends to get worse rather than better if we do not intervene. From growling we may go to biting if the other dog doesn't heed the warning. Ideas for separating are using baby gates, extended pet gates, exercise pens, feeding in crates, feeding in different rooms etc. but since your dog are quite small, you can even try placing large boxes in between them.

 

2) If one dog finishes the food faster and tries to move towards the other dog barking, whining or pawing towards the area separating him, it helps to distract him. Something I like to do is provide that dog with a Kong Wobbler or one of those slow-eating food bowls so to keep him busy until the other dog is done.

 

3) Once both dogs are done, remove the empty food bowls. Some dogs even fight on empty food bowls. I like to give each dog a small treat right when I remove food bowls, to prevent food guarding towards people. Once the food bowls are removed, then the barrier can be removed. Both dogs will likely go straight to sniffing each other's eating area. This should not lead to conflict if there is no trace of food.

 

I will be providing some tips for the toy issues in second post shortly. In the meanwhile, here are some threads tackling similar issues that may be helpful to read:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/forum/showthread.php?193-My-two-dogs-fight

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/forum/showthread.php?176-Stealing-recall-walking

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/forum/showthread.php?111-Dog-dislikes-to-share-toys

Edited October 2, 2019 by Adrienne Farricelli

[Adrienne Farricelli]

When dogs have altercations, it is helpful to recognize what triggers the fights. You have already noticed it's triggered by toys and even certain circumstances such as your miniature poodle going to drink only to come back and notice that the Havanese has "stolen" the toy and then they get upset and a fight ensues.

 

When dealing with dogs stealing toys from each other and fighting there are different ways to tackle this, and once again, it's based on several factors. Are the dogs really fighting or play fighting? Are they getting into noisy fights but nobody gets hurt? Is the yip because your dog gets hurt (check for puncture wounds under the fur) or is the yip just a way for him to say "I am sorry, didn't mean it, please don't hurt me!" Are they actually fighting and getting hurt or is one dog being bullied and suffering emotionally? To find the ideal, individualized method, it is always best to consult with a dog behavior professional committed to using humane, dog behavior modification methods for a careful in-person evaluation considering the risks for injuries involved when trying to modify dog behavior.

 

Dogs are opportunists, so when a dog gets up and leaves a toy unattended, the other dogs sees this as an opportunity to "steal" it. Stealing though may not be the most appropriate term here, considering that from a dog's eyes, a toy left around unattended means the other dog might have lost interest to it so he relinquished it and is therefore authorized to take it.

 

Just to share some stories, Petra, my female Rottweiler, would get quite creative in trying to steal Einstein's toys from right under his nose. Her stealing was more bold as she did it right in front of him. She would suddenly go to the door and bark as if she heard someone, then as Einstein joined her, she would rush to the toy he left behind and steal it. Sometimes, she would rush to us and ask for attention. She would flop over and ask for belly rubs and she knew Einstein loved to join in too for his portion of attention. As soon as he joined in, off she went to steal his toy. Finally, my favorite tactic of hers: she would start barking at Einstein because she wanted his toy bad, and then she would go on to howl. Now, as you may know, howling is quite contagious among dogs, so Einstein would join in to howl as well. The moment he opened his mouth to howl, the toy dropped out of is mouth and off she went to steal it.

 

Now, Einstein fell for this a lot initially, but then he started to smarten up: "Hey, I am not going to fall for this anymore." So as soon as he dropped the toy and started to move away from it and noticed her starting to approach, he would bark and make some big growls as he rushed back to get his toy again as if saying "No, not this time! Forget about it." These episodes although very loud, fortunately, were just the dogs using their "words." They solved very quickly, no feelings were hurt and the dogs never showed signs of emotional upset or fear. Of course, we always monitored them, in case things got out of hand, but fortunately, they never needed intervention other than maybe once or twice in their lifetime when they got too aroused over play.

 

So when it comes to toys, in ideal situations, one dog grabs the toy, growls and the other dog gets the message and backs down "OK, I got it, you can have it". Dogs who won't back down despite serious growls are often young puppies who haven't learned to take growls seriously (older dogs often let them get away with this by granting a temporary ''puppy license") or they are older pups getting a bit bolder and daring, underestimating the other dog's growls or just trying to challenge them.

 

Since this pup is a new addition, your older Havanese may not be used to the idea of having to worry about toys and food. Although dogs like to have play mates, it always feels like a bit of an intrusion when a new dog joins the household. Sort of like an only child having a new baby sister join the family. Feelings may be a bit hurt. This is understandable, and we shouldn't expect dogs to really share as we do. Giving both the same toys won't cut it, because it's just a dog's nature to want the toy the other dog has. Why, is a bit of a mystery, but I assume it's because the toy another dog has is moved around and anything that moves is extremely attractive (try to pick a toy and wiggle it around and your dog will come running leaving behind idle toys that are laying on the floor). On top of this, dogs love to tug on toys too, not to mention the fact that dogs like playing games of keep away where one dog grabs a toy and challenges the other dog to try and get it.

 

Solutions to this problem once again vary, as mentioned.

* For play fighting, no intervention is usually needed, but monitoring is always a good idea.

* For minor squabbles, if they are just noisy, there are no injuries and dogs don't appear to be emotionally upset, no intervention may be needed. Although these dogs may seem to have a handle conflict resolution, close monitoring is still a must though to ensure things do not escalate, requiring redirection.

*For mild fights, there are several different methods. A dog who repeatedly tries to get a toy when a dog is growling may be trained to heed the warning and can be redirected to another activity away from the dog. Another approach is to give the dog whose toys are stolen, oodles of attention so that he eventually learns that "sharing" leads to something even better.

 

Training both dogs to respond to a strong cue the moment tension is noticed can help redirect. I like to train dogs to respond fluently to a cue such as "Cookie time!" where we rush into kitchen and both dogs are given a cookie, but since your dogs have a history of guarding food, it may be best to train something like "Let's go out!" as you all rush into the yard and spend some time there. If you run a bit too towards the door that's a plus as most dogs can't resist following owners. These cues work best at the first signs of tension, if things progress too much, the dogs may be too focused on each other to listen. Of course, this training takes time to get it to a fluent level, where they respond to the cue almost reflexively.

 

Redirection may also be needed when dog play gets too rough (lots of vertical play with the dogs up on their feet a lot may require redirection), when there is bullying rather than play and also when play is getting too long. Sometimes, when dogs play for too long, they start getting tired and cranky, and this may lead to squabbles. Often, one dog gets tired, decides he wants the toy for himself to lie down and chew on, but the other dog keeps wanting to interact. So if you notice that the altercations happen when play sessions are too long and the dogs aren't taking much breaks, it may help to redirect them to another activity (go out in the yard, go for a walk, separate them and give them a stuffed Kong each to enjoy in a crate etc.)

 

Here are some other ideas for redirection and tempering play:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/forum/showthread.php?67-Tempering-Play&highlight=tempering+play

 

Then, as it may happen in some cases, no intervention may be needed. These cases though should be carefully evaluated by a professional. I am not very comfortable recommending this latter, because many times dog owners are told to "let their dogs work it out on their own" by professionals, this has sometimes led to dogs getting injured or emotionally scarred. The logic though is this: with some mild altercations, a dog who doesn't take growls seriously learns through trial and error that, when a growl is ignored, the dog may escalate and this may lead to a bite (hopefully inhibited, maybe an airsnap or a soft correction but that gives the point). In an ideal situation, the dog learns the "lecture" and peace is eventually restored because growls are now understood. Problems though start when the dog giving the correction is too harsh, the other dog on the receiving end is too sensitive, or when the dog given the correction bites back defensively or gets more daring as he matures and doesn't back down and keeps trying. So there are several risks with this approach.

 

Now, when dogs fight, it's best to have a plan in place so nobody gets hurt. When separating fighting dogs, there are always risks for a re-directed bite. This bite is not intentional, it's just that when two highly aroused dogs are fighting, any hand getting in between them, risks getting bitten by mistake. So we may need to use a loud sound like clashing two pot pans together (this is what I have being using mostly, I keep them always handy in the playroom) or an air horn. Some dog owners toss a blanket on the dogs to confuse them and hopefully get them to dislodge, others ring a doorbell.

 

*And then, finally, we have serious fights. For serious fights toys are removed from the equation. In other words, toys are not given when the dogs are together. Dogs are given toys when they are in separate areas.

 

As seen, there are several factors to consider. I wished things were clear cut and easy to tackle, but when dogs interact in a household and there are fights, things can get quite complex because there are many different dynamics going on. This is why the intervention of a force-free behavior professional is recommended for both safety and correct implementation of behavior modification.

 

Disclaimer: behavior modification comes with risks. When dogs are aggressive or fighting, play it safe and consult with a dog behavior professional for an in-person assessment, safety and correct implementation of behavior modification. There are many dynamics going on in dog behavior and an individualized approach is often necessary based on a several factors.

Edited October 4, 2019 by Adrienne Farricelli