Leave it troubles

[JoanSmeets]

Hello,

I have just started this course with my dog Chester (a Belgian Malinois), and while he had some of the basics down there are a few we have not trained yet. That's when I ran into some trouble with the leave it command. We thought him to leave things without putting a command to it, and this is a behavior that has not been generalized yet. It is however working just fine with his food and treats if he knows I want him to leave it alone. This means that if I present a treat to him in my open hand he will at first just stare at me without trying to get to it. An item he is more interested in is generally too big to cover back up and too hard to start with.

Problem number two in this is that we have thought him to give us his paw, or in his case smack his paw into our hands. Something he does on command but will also offer if he has no idea what I want him to do. This results in me presenting the treat --> he stares at me --> he figures out that there is something I want him to do and he goes towards the treat --> I close my hand as needed --> when he leaves it alone and I open my hand back up he proceeds to smack his paw into my hand before I can close it again sending the treat flying which he then proceeds to stare at.

I'm having a hard time adding the leave it cue to him leaving my hand alone because it's hard to find the right timing where he is not mowing his paw around and if I finally do he smacks the treat out of my hand and if I reward him then I am rewarding him for the smacking. How would you tackle this to teach him a proper leave it?

I could maybe even provide a video of him doing this if it is not clear what happens.

[Adrienne]

Hi there, 

Welcome to the forums, 

Belgian malinois are one of my favorite dogs! Not the easiest dogs to own, but so sharp that it's rewarding training them in the long run that you sort of get addicted. 

From my understanding your dog has some inhibition in getting things from your open hand and/or is one step ahead, and I can understand the challenge if he has learned to not even try to get it. In such a case, we can think out of the box and try getting him interested in something by perhaps dropping it on the floor rather than keeping it in the open hand. Many dogs think that when things fall onto the floor they automatically belong to them. So you can try to practice with maybe a piece of bread being dropped on the floor or from a counter and telling him to leave it by covering with your foot (this is actually the next step in training leave it and it is mentioned if you read further down as a way to increase difficulty. https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/obedience-101/take-leave-it/

This solution may also lead to the resolution of the pawing behavior you describe. You can then go further to the next steps in proofing your leave it which entails practicing leave it by dropping safe food from a counter top, or leaving something safe unattended on a chair, and asking to leave things on walks. 

[JoanSmeets]

Thank you for your quick reply.

He is a lovely dog, and certainly has some of the characteristic traits of the breed. He is a rescue though so it's bringing its own challenges in training him.

We did indeed teach him some inhibition, which is making it hard for us to put it on cue now. I took my time today to try if dropping a treat from a table or countertop would get him to go for it. Not much luck so far, as he understood the exercise was for him to leave it. I tried tossing it away a little, but he only goes after it if I toss it out of my own reach (associating it with a game we play to teach him search). He does to some extend respond to "uh" which we have been using to communicate that he is doing something we would like him not to do, but I wanted to put this specific action on the "Leave it" cue (only in Dutch).

I think I might try with something more valuable/interesting than treats (safe foods), with the risk of it being too hard for him or accidentally reinforcing him diving for food. If there are any more tips they are appreciated.

[Adrienne]

It can be that he has learned to associate your presence with "leaving things" and perhaps this may be part of the inhibition. In other words, he may have learned to inhibit his impulses in you presence. Since he's a rescue, who knows, it could be that in the past, his owners were harsh with him for getting a hold of things, so he developed a strong restraint.  

Other options that come to mind, is to simply just say "leave it" even if he shows no interest in getting a hold of things. So for instance, if you drop something from a counter, just say "leave it" and place your shoe on it as you reward him for leaving it by tossing a treat. This may teach him that leave it means "stay away from it." If you do this several times, he may come to associate that word with him leaving stuff. Then, you can further test the waters, progressing to the more difficult task of dropping something from the counter and moving slightly away from it. If you notice he moves towards it the moment you move away, be ready to say "leave it" body blocking access to it. 

If he complies, you can reward him with something higher in value than what he has left. If you are afraid he may dive in for the food, and he has a history of a solid response to your "uh" you can say initially "leave it' and then follow up with "uh" if he doesn't seem to understand. You need to be very quick with this tough. 

If you are planning to use the cue "leave it" to replace your "uh" this would actually be the actual procedure needed to transition to the new verbal cue. You simply say "leave it" followed by the familiar "uh' and do this several times, so that your dog starts associated the two words. As always, praise and reward. Then, at some point, you only say "leave it" and if your dog complies without you needing to follow up with your "uh," you lavishly praise and reward with a jackpot of treats. Rinse and repeat therefore only using "leave it.'

Then, you can go a further step forward and see if you can use something he may find appealing, let it drop from the counter and then move away more or even try to leave the room, but yet keep an eye on him somehow. For example, you can pretend to leave the room, but then glance back or spy from behind a door or furniture. Or if you have a mirror, place it strategically in a way that you can see what he does from a distance, or if the room has outdoor windows, leave the area and then spy from behind the window. Another option is to use some type of remote monitoring. 

The moment you see him approaching, you can say "leave it", and if he complies, you can reward him with something higher in value than what he has left. If you are afraid he may dive in for the food, and he has a solid response to your "uh" you can say initially "leave it' and then follow up with "uh" if he doesn't seem to get the message. You need to be very quick with this tough. 

If you are planning to use the cue "leave it" to replace your "uh" this would actually be the actual procedure needed to transition to a new verbal cue. You simply say "leave it" followed by the familiar "uh' and do this several times, so that your dog starts associated the two words. As always, praise and reward. Then, at some point, you only say "leave it" and if your dog complies without being followed by "uh" you lavishly praise and reward with a jackpot of treats. Rinse and repeat therefore only using "leave it.'

 

 

[JoanSmeets]

Just an update on this topic. I decided that I would give the easiest option a try first and have just been telling him to leave it when he was not making an effort to get to the treat. I have been doing two short training sessions of this, and in the last session I threw a treat out, told him to leave it then did a few sit's and down's. After I got up, moved past the treat and when his attention was drawn to it by doing so he went in to investigate. Told him to leave it again and he actually just backed away from it!

So thank you a lot for your advise, I totally did not realize that it could be so simple. Few more simple sessions to make sure it sticks and then upping the challenge!

[Adrienne]

Sometimes, the simplest solutions turn out being the most effective. Glad to hear it seems to be working. These dogs are so smart they seem to always be a step ahead of us. Keep up the good work. Thanks for the update. 

Happy training!