Retrieving an item (fetch)

[ManidaMorrell]

Hi, I have a 6.5 month border collie. I'm trying to teach him to fetch. He absolutely loves to chase a ball, toy frisbee anything I throw but he won't bring it back. He will stop half way, drop and chew it or just leave it there. I don't like to go and pick it up as I don't want him to learn that that's part of the game, I want him to learn that if he brings it back he gets to chase it again.

 

Do you have any advise as to what I should do?

 

Manida

[Adrienne Farricelli]

The issue you are facing is not an uncommon one, indeed, it is actually one of the most common problems encountered when teaching a dog to fetch any item. Your dog breed is awesome for playing fetch due to thieir energy, determination and prey drive which are required to chase a ball over and over. Yet, while border collies have a good genetic makeup for chasing (as they were used to chase sheep and herd them for hours on end) their genes may not be that great for returning things as in certain predisposed retrieving breeds (golden retrievers, labs etc) which were selectively bred for retrieving downed birds and bringing them back to the hunter. However, even among retrieving breed specimens, not all of them come with a factory pre-installed fetching gene.

 

That said, while a well-bred working retriever may retrieve by instinct, a border collie can also retrieve if we add enough incentive, which in this case would be some form of reward under the form of treats or simply tossing the ball again if a dog loves, loves, loves chasing it. There are several things we can try to help a dog who will chase but is reluctant to bring the ball back. Here is a little troubleshooting guide:

 

-Avoid encouraging "keep away games." Often us dog owners inadvertently teach a dog to run away with an item rather than dropping it, by chasing our dogs around to get back an item rather than teaching the dog to drop. If your dog tends to pick up the ball when you move towards it or retrieves the ball you toss him and then runs away with it, perhaps giving you a play bow and waiting for you to chase him, then he's likely trying to play "keep away." It's best to avoid "playing" this game with dogs as it puts a dent in the future training of fetch.

 

-Watch for possessive behaviors. Is your dog not returning the item because he hasn't been trained to do so or is he a tad bit possessive? Some dogs will chase a ball you toss them, but then, they take off with it playing with it at a distance from you or possibly lying down to chew on it. Being possessive over toys can put a dent in training a dog to fetch as dogs displaying this behavior may not want to bring the ball back. Dogs who resource guard will likely move away with the ball if you show any interest in the ball such as looking at it or moving towards the dog. If you have chased your dog in the past to retrieve an item he wasn't supposed to have, this could have instilled in him a fear of losing his possession and a need to protect certain items from you. If your dog ever shows signs of possessiveness over toys or other resources, play it safe and consult with a behavior professional. While some dogs who take off with balls may be possessive of toys, a large number of dogs simply do so because they weren't likely given an opportunity to learn the rules of playing fetch. These dogs therefore are just confused as they have no clue of what you're asking them to do.

 

-This brings us to the next tip: Don't chase your dog when he has the ball or any other item he's not supposed to have. Avoid this type of conflict. Instead, teach your dog from the get-go that giving you the ball is very worthy. Train your dog to drop an item in exchange for a tasty treat. You can find how to train drop it here: https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/obedience-101/drop-it/

 

-Avoid using high-value toys for fetch in the initial stages such as toys recently purchased or toys your dog hasn't seen for a while. The more value a toy has, the more likely your dog will want to chew it or take off with it. Many dog trainers like to keep a toy exclusively for fetching so that the dog associates it with the game and it's not destined for chewing.

 

-Fetching is much more than just ball chasing. At a closer insight, fetch is a game composed of several behaviors chained together. In order to fetch, a dog must first watch the owner toss the ball, pick it up wherever it falls, carry it for several steps, and then bring it to the owner dropping it into the owner's hands or at the owner's feet. It may therefore take several training sessions to train all these behaviors and then chain them together so that the dog performs the whole sequence.

 

-Some dogs will chase a ball you toss, pick it up, take a few steps towards you and then drop the ball early, perhaps when they're halfway towards you, why is that? There may be various reasons for this. One of them is distractions. If your dog is walking towards you and you excitedly talk to him to encourage him to come towards you, your dog may perceive this as praise and if you have always praised him before giving him a treat, he may be dropping the ball so his mouth is empty and he can now run towards you ready for a treat. In other cases, it could be that the dog simply fails to realize that he can carry something as he comes to you. Sometimes early drops happen also when dogs start getting tired or bored so keep an eye on your dog for signs of fatigue or apathy.

 

-This may help with dogs who are a bit possessive: You can also try trading the ball with another ball in what is known as the "two-ball method."Simply toss the ball, when your dog gets it, show him you have another ball, but don't throw it until he drops the ball that's already his mouth. Even better, fill up a bucket with balls and keep trading. Repetition after repetition, your dog may understand that in order to chase another ball, he must first bring back the one he already has. He'll eventually learn that there's no need to take off and hold on to the one ball when there are more and more coming.

 

-If you use the two-ball method, avoid falling into the temptation of pretending to toss the ball to get your dog to drop so you can snatch the ball from him. This leads to suspicion in the dog and a future reluctance to drop.

 

-If your dog doesn't bring the ball back, don't chase your dog or go retrieve the item for him. You want your dog to retrieve, not the other way around. Instead, simply sit and encourage your dog to bring the ball back to you the rest of the way, When he finally brings the ball all the way, lavishly praise and reward. You want to make it clear that only by bringing the ball back to you he will get rewarded.

 

-An option for dogs who seem not to be able to "multitask" by carrying the ball and walking towards you, is distracting them with movement. Instead of getting your dog to come near you, try turning and running away as your dog walks towards you. Working on the opposition reflex often distracts enough to do the trick.

 

-You can also try calling your dog's name as your dog takes a few steps towards you. Hopefully, this will get him to walk towards you with the ball in his mouth, but sometimes dogs will drop the ball upon hearing their name.

 

-If your dog keeps dropping the ball early, take a step back in your training and try asking him shorter and easier retrieves. Split the exercise in smaller steps by rewarding him for gradually bringing the ball a little bit closer each time.

 

-If your dog still doesn't bring the ball back to you and he appears tired or bored, end the session asking your dog to perform an easy task and reward. Take a little break and resume a bit later or on another day. Dogs do better with short, upbeat sessions rather than long, tedious ones.

 

-Some dogs can be particular about retrieving certain objects as they may not like the feel of certain items in their mouths. Find out what your dog likes to fetch the most and stick to it until your dog learns the basics of the game.

 

-Give backchaining a try. This is my preferred method for training a dog to fetch as it emphasizes dropping the ball in the owner's hand. In back chaining, you would train the last behavior of the chain first, then the behavior before that, moving in a backward fashion. So back to training a dog to play fetch, one would therefore start by training the dog to take, hold and drop the ball in a person's hand (or in front of the person).

This is repeated several times so the action of dropping the ball in the hands or in front of the owner has a very strong history of reinforcement and the dog performs the behavior reliably. Then, the dog is trained to bring the ball and drop it, then to pick it up from a a distance, bring it and drop it and so forth until the whole sequence is completed. You can read more about backchaining a retrieve by taking a look at the troubleshooting section of the tidy up game which is basically a from of retrieve (for a good reason it's at the Einstein level as for some dogs retrieving can be quite challending to teach: https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/einstein/the-tidy-up-game/

 

-Last but not least, for very obstinate cases where brining the ball back feels more like a chore to certain dogs, there are now fetching machines that can do all the work. A favorite one is the Go Dog Go fetching machine. There are also several fun sports that involve balls and not specifically bringing the ball back to the owner such as Treibball and flyball.

 

Good luck!

Adrienne

Edited August 16, 2018 by Adrienne Farricelli

[ManidaMorrell]

Thank you so much Adrienne, this is great advice and so many options to try, I'm sure he will learn with these tips.

He loves the chase and crouches down waiting for it to be thrown again.

Manida

[JMFS]

Hi Manida,

 

I'm glad you asked the question. My older pup took to fetch like a duck to water. Or, at least, that's My recollection. :D I've been collecting sticks around the yard as Gertie prefers those to the ball, and I have a pile going so I always have something to replace the one she's frolicking victoriously around with. I've been throwing shorter distances (as if I could throw all that far to begin with . . . ) and I do my "come" whistle as I start to walk away with another stick in hand, pretending I'm done with the game. The toughest part for me has been telling the difference between her being over it and her playing hard to get. That plopping down in the middle of the yard and chomping the stick to bits is So annoying! It's high pressure, too, because even though we have quite a bit of space, the neighbors can see Every failure. Not that their dogs are all that well behaved (the Yorkie squeezed through our gate, came into our yard, sniffed our Dachshund, peed on our grass, and left without so much as a thank you while his Poodle buddy barked at us from the gate, lol, and the other neighbors dogs also think their humans are foolish and often ignore pleas to comply), but still - having witnesses to the training woes can be a wee bit embarrassing. We should probably start a neighborhood support group, but we're all introverts so attendance would be low. :D

 

Have you had any more success with your pooch?

[ManidaMorrell]

Hi Jenn,

Blue loves to chase with a passion. He will only bring the frisbee back 1/4 to 1/2 the way back to me which is very frustrating.

[JMFS]

Gertie still prances around as though she's the bee's knees when she gets the stick and she continues to chomp it to bits. Water retrieval is met with better success - contained area. Indoor fetch is 100% on point, but as soon as this little minx gets room to do as she pleases she does just that. When I throw a ball for both she and Momo I'm guaranteed success because Mo will bring it back. I was hoping she'd copy off his paper, but so far there hasn't been much luck. I haven't pushed this particular training, either, so we're stagnant for the time being.

 

I swear I need a boomerang or a ball on a string for her because like Blue, she loves the chase, but the rest of it she's not interested in. I honestly cannot even remember teaching Momo fetch! I know I did, but I cannot remember how or when we had enough room to do it.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Hello Manida,

Sounds like your dog likes to chase balls, but doesn't know the returning to you part. Being a breed that was selectively bred for herding rather than retrieving, it's not unusual to face some hurdles. Some dogs find joy from simply chasing things while others get a lot of joy from retrieving (chasing and bringing back). Just like us, they all have their little areas of specialty and weaknesses :)

 

This needs some troubleshooting and the addition of incentives if returning the ball isn't something that comes natural. What is your goal? Are you training a formal retrieve for obedience? Or is this just for fun or to release pent-up energy? Have you already tried the methods outlined in the previous reply above? If so, which methods did you try and what were the results? Have you tried closer retrieves, splitting the exercise in smaller steps, two-ball games or backchaining? What items are you using to play fetch? Are you talking to your dog as he's returning to you? Sometimes, it helps starting training it all over using a different method and backchaining can be helpful for that. It helps to start inside the home at first with close retrieves and then gradually moving to the yard or larger spaces only once the dog grasps the concept.

 

If things are getting frustrating, dogs often sense our frustration and shut down and this can put a dent in the training as the activity assumes negative connotations. It helps to take breaks before reaching that point and asking the dog a behavior he knows well so to end the session on a positive note.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Adrienne Farricelli