2 topics: tire out a dog too scared to go for walks, and Issues with “sit” and alternate places to begin?

[ChelseaEnslow]

Hi again!

my rescue pup is miles more brave than he was three weeks ago, but still to afraid to go for a reasonable walk. We play ball in our yard but he gets bored quickly and just goes to eating grass / lying down / slowly sniffing the yard. On walks he will walk fast / run which is great for burning energy but he gets scared quickly and wants to run home (we go maybe one block on a very long stretch. Sometimes if he’s feeling up to it we repeat a short stretch and then back home over and over.) He gets VERY (too) excited when dogs walk by the yard or if he sees dogs on walks (I found an article of Adriennes to work on that). 
 

so my question is: are there other ways to tire him out? I know brain training is one but he also seems to tire/get frustrated and walk away from training very quickly, even with treats I know he loves (also, sit seems quite foundational to training and we are having issues with sit- see below). 

relatedly- I have been trying since we got him to teach him to sit, he will lean his head all the way back but never seems to lose balance. If I move the treat too far he gives up. I’m not sure how to “shape” as I’ve given him a treat for going far back with his head several times but he never progreses to moving his back legs at all. As for capturing - he almost never sits! We went to the vet recently and he got dewormer but that hasn’t made a difference. He doesn’t seem opposed to sitting - I’ve seen him do it occasionally and always try to capture it if I can, but it’s so infrequent (1x/day?) that it’s hard to catch! When I try to “wait him out” he usually lays down instead of sitting. 
 

thanks so much! 

chelsea 
 

[Adrienne]

Hello and welcome back!

Thank you so much for the update. I am glad to hear that your pup is getting braver and improving so much!

 

It is not uncommon for rescued pups to be afraid of outdoors walks. It's all an unfamiliar world out there with many scary sights and sounds. Also we don' know much about his history so it could be he wasn't properly socialized when younger or enduring some traumatic events. In any case, he's now in a loving home and lucky to have you helping him out!

 

It's good that you are sticking to walking around the block for now without going yet too far so to give him some time to adjust and provide the opportunity to get him used to his surroundings. These fellows need lots of baby steps and low-intensity exposures. So if there are times where things are more quiet (like not when the garbage truck is around) it would be best to take advantage of these times. Make sure to make walks fun and rewarding by praising him, giving treats, letting him sniff (many dogs feel calmer when sniffing and it helps reduce stress). You can find more tips for walks here:

 

Be your dog's cheerleader:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/using-jolly-routine-fearful-dogs/

 

Train a U-turn in case there's something scary that your pup struggles to cope with:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/emergency-u-turn/

 

About fear on walks:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/fear-going-walks/

 

For tiring him out, look for brain games that do not require training, but just working his brain to solve puzzles and get access to food. Use some portions of his meals for organizing treasure hunts, bottle game, muffin game, and the magic carpet. 

 

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/elementary/the-treasure-hunt/

 

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/high-school/the-bottle-game/

 

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/elementary/the-muffin-game/

 

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/college/the-magic-carpet/

 

Putting his nose to work can be tiring too. Let him sniff around the yard and explore and you can also create fun setups where he can search for things.  You can read more on games that use his nose here:

 

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/college/the-shell-game/

 

Clicker training can be tiring too (use a verbal marker or look for other alternatives listed below)

 

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/clicker-training/

 

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/your-clicker-best-friend-or-worst-enemy/

 

I know you said that he walks away from training quickly, but rather than doing long sessions, keep them very brief and organize several throughout the day, ending the sessions when he still seems enthusiastic. If we let our pups walk away and lose interest, we risk putting a dent in making them enthusiastic and involved learners. So make it short, sweet and fun and on the last behavior he performs well, end it happily saying "good boy!" while giving a little jackpot (dropping 3-4 kibble/small pieces of treats at a time) for him to search. 

 

In regards to the issue with sit, sometimes using a little barrier  such as a table or large furniture (as seen in the attached picture) can work as the pup has no room to back-up. 

 

Shaping would require rewarding several small approximations in successive order, so you may start by giving the treat for just sniffing the treat, then for following it upwards with his nose, then for looking upwards, then for looking upwards and moving his back end a bit, then for moving his back end a little more, then for almost touching his bottom on the floor, and then bingo! for sitting with his bottom on the floor. This can be a bit challenging to train as it requires very close observation and having a plan in place (like using some type of prop) if things don't work as hoped and if the dog isn't rewarded too often he may give up and lose interest.

 

Capturing works by rewarding spontaneous behaviors. So in this case,  you would have to wait for him to eventually sit. This can require lots of patience, but in most cases a dog will eventually sit. When that happens (always keep treats on you in your pocket or treat bag),you would need to promptly praise and reward by tossing a treat the dog's way. The good thing is that with time, the dog will start sitting more and more courtesy of the power of positive reinforcement. 

 

This post has a video on the motions used in luring if you're a visual learner:

 

Other things you can try is you sitting down on the couch or even you sitting on the floor. Some dogs get a little stressed if we're looming over them.  Also try on training on a variety of surfaces like a carpet or rug since some dogs dislike sitting on cold floors. 

 

If you are still struggling with getting your pup to sit, feel free to post again here on the forums and we can do further troubleshooting. A strong reluctance to sit may also need evaluating by a vet in case there's some sort of pain going on that may be preventing a dog from feeling comfortable enough to sit. I know you saw the vet recently, but mentioning the reluctance to sit will have the vet more closely check for any possible joint/back problems or unusual conformation that makes it more challenging to train. 

 

Hope this helps,

Happy Training!

[ChelseaEnslow]

Thanks!! I’ll try those. That turn sounds like a fun idea. 

I have been trying training with “target” and that is going pretty well. I think the frustration and boredom is mostly when he doesn’t know what I want (sit). It only takes 2 minutes for him to be bored of that. But with target he was getting it pretty quickly and remaining focused! 

I’ll let you know how sit goes! I don’t want to bore him away from training so maybe I’ll keep trying to capture.  he has finally stopped being afraid of “projectile” treats so it might be easier to capture now (I think he thought I was throwing something harmful at him). 
 

thanks again! 

[Adrienne]

Thanks, looking forward to hearing how how things go!

Yes, skip the treat tossing if he afraid of that, poor baby might have had somebody toss rocks at him or who knows what. With such pups I have to gradually desensitize and countercondition to food tosses starting with dropping food, then gradually morphing to extending the arm a bit in dropping, then splitting the movement of tossing food into several sub-steps using very slow wrist/arm movements initially and gradually building up while keeping an eye on the dog's comfort.

It sounds like though you were able to help him overcome this fear, so kudos to you for helping him! If you notice any skittish signs though and need to capture the sit and you are at a distance, you can always use a verbal marker (like the word yes!) and immediately show him the treat and then hand feed him the treat or you can use hard treats that make a sound when you drop them the ground (not toss) so that grabs his attention. The "yes" acts like a bridge telling him that he got it right, even though the reward may not come immediately (as quickly as food tossed his way).  

Here's the thing: If the reward doesn’t come very quickly (within 1- 1.5 seconds) after the behavior we want, there are risks that the dog won’t associate the behavior with the reward, so we need to be very quick in delivering the reward, but a "yes!" can buy a little delay, telling the pup he got it right and a treat is shortly on its way. 

[ChelseaEnslow]

Update: capturing is working! He can now sit on command with some success (still needs more practice in distracting environments but getting there) and as a side effect he sits randomly on his own more than he used to. 

question... I wonder if this is because I usually captured him sitting from far away and from the side. When I ask him to sit he takes a few steps away, turns sideways, and looks at me. 

is there a way to redirect him into sitting more immediately / not turning sideways? I don’t think it’s because he’s afraid of sitting next to me because he’ll sit and lay down right beside me in other circumstances of his own accord. 

 it kind of looks like a fancy trick haha but I could see it being difficult to transition into other training that uses sit. 

[Adrienne]

Glad to hear that capturing worked! You must have been very patient and diligent as it can feel initially like watching paint dry!

About his behavior when you ask him to sit, this is interesting. If you have most of the time asked him to sit  and he was always at a distance and on the side and you rewarded that, it could be thinks that stepping away and turning sideways is part of the exercise. Other thing that comes to mind is that he's still a bit shy and his sideways movement is sort a calming signal. 

Conformation issues or medical issues aside, in these cases, it's mostly a matter of perfecting the sit, by getting a bit picky and rewarding with tasty treats only the sits that happen faster, straighter and that are closer to the type of sit we want and only verbally praising the ones that are not as great. With this approach, we should see an increase in the better sits. 

Keep me posted. 

 

[AbegaelJackson]

My puppy is not allowed to exercise so I understand the struggle with tiring them out. We have puzzles for her and they are excellent. I have some days fed her entire meal using a puzzle. It will take 8 or 9 rounds.

The other thing that helped significantly though is to do something outdoors which is “interesting” every morning for 10-15 min. To you it will be boring but basically I bring her somewhere she has never been before or hasn’t been for several weeks. For instance pick him up and let him sniff around an elevated garden. Take him to a store that allows dogs but do it during quiet hours and walk around slow to let him sniff stuff. Drive 3 blocks down the road and let him walk one block on a street he hasn’t been yet. I even take her to parking lots and let her sniff around the edges. If you have a neighbour that is ok with it, walk around their front yard. You can walk down an alley - lots to see and smell there!

For us doing these things in the early morning hours has been key. It is quiet so my easily startled dog is less likely to get scared by some unexpected noise and doesn’t get overwhelmed by all the things going on. Instead she gets a chance to see and smell and be stimulated thinking about and exploring places. Most importantly she gets time outside free from anxiety, even if for only 10 minutes, and this has done major major things for her overall happiness, resulting in a much calmer dog at home during the day.

[AbegaelJackson]

Oh also the walking fast/running it’s because of anxiety and it only tires him out because it is the anxiety tiring him out. Not sure if you’ve ever had anxiety or panic attacks before but it is tiring in a way that doesn’t feel good.

My pup is the same way and so actually we walk VERY slowly. Like the pace that your elderly great grandma would walk at. Yes your pup will pull wanting to go faster, mine does, but you can work on leash training in these moments. The goal is you want his attention as much as possible. It will be exhausting for you, but it’s only 10min - you can do it! I haven’t looked through the full course yet as I just bought it but I am sure there are leash training tips and exercises you can do explained in the course. The key here is that by walking slow it’s like having a human breath slow. It doesn’t make the anxiety goes away but it does make it easier to pull the person/dog back from the dissociative behaviour where they completely leave their mind and are not present.

After these slow walks where my primary goal is to keep her attention she is very tired when we get back because she has had to mentally work very very hard with me constantly bringing her attention back to me after she has been distracted. She will pass out hard, more than if she had ran for 30min. And with time (with mine progress is slow but there is progress) when we do these slow walks I don’t have to work as hard to keep her from dissociating and panicking trying to go faster.

[ChelseaEnslow]

Thanks!

I think our situations may be slightly different -I think the high severity of our pups anxiety was temporary due to his long journey as a rescue. 
 

his fast walking doesn’t seem to be anxiety related - I think that’s just his pace. Since my last post our sweet boy is going on longer and longer walks with so much more confidence. He walks quickly but with tail up and wagging, not pulling the leash and I’m able to get his attention fairly easily (I say fairly because he LOVES other dogs and so it’s a battle between them and me for his attention at times). He’ll also slow his pace if I do or if my husband walks him (I am also a fast walker). This is in contrast to the first week we had him and he would pull the leash in zig zags like he was crazed (that was definitely anxious walking!). He is a high energy breed I think, and still quite young at ten months, so he also loves to run “zoomies” around the yard. He now seems to walk slowly and right close to me if he’s unsure about something.

That being said I have been meaning to practice attention healing, which I think is kind of what you have suggested. I hope it’ll be a good way to tire him out on hot days that are coming too! He is really good on leash for a new rescue but like most dogs could be  better. 

A general update: his sit is improving in quality,  consistency, and with distractions. He sat while I was diverting him from a neighbour cat! He is also as I said so much less fearful. I think his key fear is humans but he’s improving in that in leaps and bounds - from turning back every time there is a person on the street to now occasionally going up to strangers for a light sniff and tail wag now (without me goading him or anything!) 

 

[Adrienne]

Glad to hear your pup's sits are improving in quality, keep up the great work! You have been doing a fabulous job!