Shiloh, and his newfound confidence...cause for concern?

[CherylHampton]

Well its me again😊 got a few questions(surprise !) first, Shiloh made his first REAL attempt at getting in the car. Think with a bit more work we've got it finally. My questions are re: 1)what's normal behavior for his age (8months) and what's not when meeting other dogs.and 2) is it normal at this age for guarding extincts to kick in and how do I gage aggression vs. warning. For the first issue. As I've mentioned Shiloh has three friends he plays with often and enjoys their company. He barks at other dogs but doesn't appear aggressive even though he throws out a growl or two. He bows down attempting to engage in play, the problem I'm struggling with is haven he's around my daughters miniature sch sized(she's 3). Chloe goes nuts growling, barking and snapping, at Shiloh, so he returns in kind.  I think Chloe is afraid of him. We had to keep them apart while I visited. I had to bed Shiloh down in the garage and Chloe still went to the door and he got agitated and his barking didn't sound as friendly. Finally I think he just got tired of listening to it and we played ball. I tried keeping him distracted initially, but he had to reach that point himself I think. Is there ANY way we will ever be able to get them to be friends? This is going to be an issue if I want to visit in the future( and of course I do) but can't afford a sitter for Shiloh every time. Any suggestions? Now next question: when Shiloh and I go out(especially at night) he immediately starts barking and growling at absolutely nothing. If I weren't concerned about future aggression it would be funny just the way he does it. We step out into the yard and he rears back on his hind legs, then lunges left barking and growling. Next he goes center then to the right. After each time he looks to me to see if I'm watching? The first time he did this he actually jumped around the corner of the house like someone would do when yelling BOO! All four legs actually came off the ground and he barked when he landed. I couldn't help myself, I laughed so hard I cried. I may have hurt his feelings a bit😞 he's been consistent with this behavior about a week now, and I would have thought maybe he was being protective of ours house, but its the same at moms or my daughters . since he's barking at nothing what are the chances he would actually get aggressive? He does bark at people across the street when they're out but has never tried to get to them or anything, and he loves kids and any people he does meet. Thanks for your help just want to ward off any problems before they arrive when he's a bit more mature, he still has many of his puppy traits even though he's obviously more comfortable in his skin and not so skiddish of his own shadow😊

[Adrienne]

Hi Cheryl,

Glad to hear that Shiloh is getting better at getting in the car. I hope you found the winning strategy that will motivate him to get in on his own. 

Now to your questions:

1)What's normal behavior for his age (8months) and what's not when meeting other dogs .

 

For the first issue. As I've mentioned Shiloh has three friends he plays with often and enjoys their company. He barks at other dogs but doesn't appear aggressive even though he throws out a growl or two. He bows down attempting to engage in play, the problem I'm struggling with is haven he's around my daughters miniature sch sized(she's 3). Chloe goes nuts growling, barking and snapping, at Shiloh, so he returns in kind.  I think Chloe is afraid of him. We had to keep them apart while I visited. I had to bed Shiloh down in the garage and Chloe still went to the door and he got agitated and his barking didn't sound as friendly 

 

Finally I think he just got tired of listening to it and we played ball. I tried keeping him distracted initially, but he had to reach that point himself I think. Is there ANY way we will ever be able to get them to be friends? This is going to be an issue if I want to visit in the future( and of course I do) but can't afford a sitter for Shiloh every time. Any suggestions?

 

Your pup is 8 months old now, and he's at the peak of the adolescent stage being that he is a shepherd mix. As you may have already read from the archive, this is the most challenging phase of dog ownership: https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/survive-dogs-adolescent-stage/

 

The normal behavior for dogs of this age can vary a whole lot as you can imagine because there are so many variances among dogs. Take just breed for example.  For instance, at this age, some breeds such as Labradors may be hyper and engaging in lots of play with every dog they meet and greet, whereas, in a more serious breed like a German shepherd or Rottweiler, we may start to see the beginning of some standoffish behavior. There is nothing wrong with this and it's actually part of this breed's standard. 

 

You have a mix of both breeds, so one really cannot know what type of predisposition may prevail. It could be one or the other or a mix of both. On top of this, as Patricia McConnell claims, 'Genes are written in pencil," meaning that genes are not carbon copies and breeding is a crapshoot.... There is no such thing as a dog being like another so there are really no black and white rules onto how a dog of a specific age is expected to behave when meeting other dogs. 

 

What we know is that, this is a delicate phase and things may change during this time. For instance, if a dog of this age regularly plays with adult dogs, certain behaviors may not be any longer well tolerated by adult dogs. Any pushy behavior or rowdy behavior will likely be corrected, hopefully in a ritualized manner. Adult dogs may therefore no longer be lenient and they may revoke the so called 'puppy license" where pups could have gotten away with certain behaviors just because of the fact of being socially-illiterate puppies. 

 

 Intact male dogs may also be perceived as more threatening by neutered dogs. I cannot recall if Shiloh was neutered. Is he neutered now or still intact? 

 

The reason why neutered dogs react aggressively towards intact males  is likely due to them having a different smell than other dogs. Indeed, interestingly, by the time intact dogs reach 10 months, there's a peak in this smell as testosterone levels may rise to be five to seven times greater than the levels of an adult.

 

In their interactions with same-age dogs or even younger pups, adolescent dogs can sometimes start acting a bit like bullies, pinning the dogs down or biting too hard. They also tend to start being picky over who to befriend. Some adolescents may be still OK with a few selected doggy friends, but may start getting more selective, no longer liking dogs he doesn't know or sees less frequently. At the dog park, as an adolescent dog matures, he may no longer back off from a challenge when before he may have "apologized" and backed off. 

 

In your case, it sounds like Shiloh is simply reacting to Chloe's behavior. I agree, perhaps her being smaller, she is somewhat intimidated by his size.

 

Is this a new behavior or has she always been this way? Did they ever play when Shiloh was younger?

 

It could also be that, if she hasn't seen him often enough, she doesn't feel like he belongs to her "circle of friends." How often do you stop by to visit? If infrequent, this can happen. She may not like an intruder dog entering her territory and may be giving signals to let him know he's not welcomed. 

 

We also need to consider whether she may not like young dogs very much. Many adult dogs struggle with the high energy levels of young dogs. Being that she is 3 years old, she may be rather chill and find his behavior over the top and may not be able to tolerate it. Things may get better as Shiloh matures and becomes calmer and is better under control (like able to stay calm when seeing her and not reacting and holding a long down/stay on a mat during the visit.)  

 

In some cases, rather than just letting him straight in her home, it may help to plan an organized walk with her (one handler each dog, walked at a distance) on neutral territory and see how it goes. **Avoid this though if such walk would mean Shiloh barking at her which may only further exacerbate her fears. See more about this towards the end of the post. 

 

Sometimes, a walk can help calm dogs down and pave the path for some more accepting behavior. Shiloh may also have less energy after being walked and may come across as calmer which is easier to accept.

 

If they both enter the home together, meaning Shiloh on leash and Chloe on leash, one handler per reach dog at a distance, it may feel less like an' invasion" compared to just Shiloh entering her home out of the blue and wrecking havoc in her life.

 

 Then, having both dogs in their own separated areas may also help her feel better. For instance, Chloe may be placed behind a baby gate and Shiloh on a leash with you at a distance so that she won't have to deal with him coming too close.

 

Giving both dogs something tasty to keep occupied during the duration of the visit may help maintain calm and create positive associations" "Every time Shiloh comes visit, I get that tasty stuff, yay!" and "Every time I get to visit Chloe, I get something to keep myself busy, yay!" and therefore " Seeing each other is rewarding!"

 

Of course, caution is always needed, being that Shiloh is so much bigger than Chloe, so the use of a baby-gate offers a win-win. 

 

I tend to see this more of something that needs to be worked on more on Chloe's side rather than Shiloh. Cloe may need some behavior modification work to reduce her fear or possible territorial behavior.  Shiloh though may fair better if he can stay calm and keep distance. Of course, this can be time consuming, but it may be worthy if you visit very often and you can keep up the progress.

 

Basically, the process is similar to introducing a new dog as covered here, only that the two dogs don't live together so if many days go by with Chloe not seeing Shiloh, there are risks she may revert to her previous behavior. 

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/introduce-dog-new-dog/

 

I see that you also mentioned that Shiloh  "barks at other dogs but doesn't appear aggressive even though he throws out a growl or two. He bows down attempting to engage in play." 

 

Does Shiloh do this even when seeing Chloe? If so, that can be enough to evoke a fearful reaction in her, and therefore leave a strong impression that now she just fears him. Some dogs are just calmer by nature and struggle with high energy, untrained dogs. I have worked with dogs this way and they were  not accepting of untrained, hyper dogs, but often did fine when introduced to trained, calmer dogs. 

 

Does Shiloh do this barking/growling and play bow behavior when on leash? If so I am wondering whether you are seeing some barrier frustration:

 https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/barrier-frustration/

 

Let me know more about this behavior and whether it happens only on leash. 

 

Disclaimer: If your dog shows signs of potential aggression (lunging, barking, growling, snapping, biting) for safety, please consult with a dog behavior professional who uses force-free behavior modification techniques for direct in-person guidance. Articles, videos and general info found in the forums or course (or any online source) are not meant to replace in-person training/instruction. By using this course and forum, you are waiving any liability claims or other type of claims related to any dogs' behavior against you or others

[Adrienne]

2) is it normal at this age for guarding extincts to kick in and how do I gage aggression vs. warning. 

 

 Now next question: when Shiloh and I go out (especially at night) he immediately starts barking and growling at absolutely nothing. If I weren't concerned about future aggression it would be funny just the way he does it. We step out into the yard and he rears back on his hind legs, then lunges left barking and growling. Next he goes center then to the right. After each time he looks to me to see if I'm watching? 

 

The first time he did this he actually jumped around the corner of the house like someone would do when yelling BOO! All four legs actually came off the ground and he barked when he landed. I couldn't help myself, I laughed so hard I cried. I may have hurt his feelings a bit😞 he's been consistent with this behavior about a week now, and I would have thought maybe he was being protective of ours house, but its the same at moms or my daughters .

 

 since he's barking at nothing what are the chances he would actually get aggressive? He does bark at people across the street when they're out but has never tried to get to them or anything, and he loves kids and any people he does meet. 

 

Thanks for your help just want to ward off any problems before they arrive when he's a bit more mature, he still has many of his puppy traits even though he's obviously more comfortable in his skin and not so skittish of his own shadow😊

 

At night, many dogs are more reactive. While you may think he is growling at absolutely nothing, there may be actually something. This may be hard for us to see or hear or smell, because we have much weaker senses. Dogs can instead smell things we can only dream of, they can hear in the ultrasonic range, and as crepuscular hunters, their eyes can catch fast moving things. 

 

Next time, go back to the area and try to be your dog's eyes and ears. Put yourself in your dog's place and investigate the area. If he was barking at something, look in that direction, if he was sniffing something investigate the area. Look around for any wild animal droppings with your flashlight or have some expert examine for you. Night-time barking like that is often due to night-time critters. My Einstein would whine every time he would catch the whiff of a skunk. 

 

Also see whether there is something that spooks him. I has a dog who barked all the time when I took her out in the yard at night and turned out she was barking at a small strip of cloth that caught on our tree and would move with the breeze. Removing it from the tree solved the issue.

 

Something else to consider, since I am now reading that it happens also at your mom's and daughter's house, is that as a shepherd mix, he's just starting to practice his guardian role, which is being extra vigilant and very attentive to his surroundings. Here's the thing; these dogs are working dogs and have a very deep need to get a "job" and often that job is keeping an eye on things, although sometimes they may get 'spooked.'

 

As puppies mature into teenagers, gone are the days when thy were sound asleep for a good part of the day and could have cared less about noises. Now, as adolescents they are more and more alert and may sleep more lightly, easily awakening and possibly reacting to any sound.

 

At times, with these developing dogs, you may notice the "react first, and think later" trend. In other words, they'll be fast to sound the alarm towards a perceived threat, even if there is really no actual danger present.

 

In such a case, it can sometimes help, saying something reassuring such as "let me check it out!" Ask your dog to hold a sit and stay as you go take a look. Let him see you are investigating the area and then return to him and tell him in a reassuring tone "all clear!" and give him a treat for complying so nicely.

 

Right now, Shiloh is at an age where he isn't mature enough to take the matter in his own hands. The ability to discern a real threat comes with maturity. It is up to you, at this time to prevent him from becoming obsessed about barking at things and it often helps to redirect and take charge of certain situations. 

 

The barking at people across the street, is that something he does sparingly? Or is it an all-day ordeal? Does he ever come to you to alert you of their presence? 

It is great that he is fine with meeting with people. It's important to maintain his social skills as he matures, going often on walks and different places and seeing as many different people as possible and creating positive associations with them. 

[CherylHampton]

Thanks and I did miss a reply somewhere along the way as I had to swap tablets and vet set up on my new one. Shiloh is doing some better with his barking and believe it or not I had wondered if some of his "guardian behavior" was due in part to the shepherd part of his breed. He's got a great personality and loves meeting new people. Especially kids. He is getting a bit more discerning about other dogs however which I think I saw referenced somewhere before. I will look it up and keep you posted. As always thanks for your help, the advice is always on point😊