Esther Shares, Gertie Does Not

[JMFS]

So nervous but excited for tomorrow!  I'm only on page 4 of Esther's 10-page questionnaire.  Gertie's is finished.  She asks a Lot of questions and some are seeming repeats.  I'm guessing that may be to see if there is a change in the answer to try to glean a bit more information.

I'll be taking Benadryl around 8 pm so I can hopefully get to sleep at a reasonable hour as she's arriving at 11 am and wants the girls to eat 4 hours ahead of her arrival.  She wants them hungry and I figure she may roll her eyes at assurances that they'll work hard for treats even if they've eaten, the little gluttons. 

I'll let you know how it goes!  Tuesday I get fitted for lenses for cataract surgery so it may not be until Wednesday when I can post an update.  Or I'll be brimming with excitement and dash right on over.  Never can tell with me - I don't even know myself which way things like this will go, lol.  As an introvert people time exhausts me, but when it comes to my dogs I'm usually happy to yap away.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Based on the questionnaire and lengthy consultation, I have good feelings about this.

Best wishes for a speedy recovery from your cataract surgery. 

I look forwards to your update! 

 

[FrederykBlot]

I read it seems to be quite a journey you're having

Not much to say here, just a little encouragement words

 

Take care !

 

[JMFS]

Super duper quick update because I have checks to write or subs will gripe!

It took five hours!  Esther's took up the majority of the time.  Gertie is back to Kindergarten with her freedom outside due to her deteriorated recall.  I'm to start taking Gertie places again.  She said just because Esther can't go doesn't mean Gerts should be punished by being excluded.

I have a long email from her that she typed while she was here so I need to read through that and then I have a Lot of homework to do!

I liked her.  She was the right mix of serious and personable.  I was nervous we might not click but those fears have been removed.  She does want me to find new words to describe the girls.  Instead of cantankerous say challenging, for example.  She wants the dogs to get lavished with positivity.  That's going to be a tough one for me as I'm fluent in sarcasm.  Who knew I was hiring a life coach as well as a dog trainer?!

She's opened herself up to emails and us sending videos for trouble shooting.  She wants small videos via text so she can blow them up and focus on the facial expressions and other body language.  Our next appointment is Nov 4 because next week she's studying for another certification and then testing.

She had some kind of addictive treat with green lips in it (mussels I think) that Esther couldn't get enough of and totally ignored me for.  She asked me to leave those for her to use because she needs a leg up with gaining Esther's trust as she'll work with Esther as well instead of only us doing as instructed 100% of the time.

Off to go get these folks paid.  I'll give more info when I have some free time!

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Oh wow, I thought 4 hours was a lot! 

So glad you both clicked, and that you discovered a treat that Esther goes bonkers for, that will help a lot! 

I am sure both Esther and Gertie will love being lavished with positivity. 😍

Thanks for the update!

 

[JMFS]

Alright, so I already have to use the Red Pen on our accident calendar.  /sigh  I had my cataract lens replacement measurement appointment today and it was at the crack of dawn.  I made it to bed at 1:15 am, woo hoo, but after yesterday's excitement that still wasn't enough and I was so very tired.  I laid down to rest my (still dilated) eyes and dozed off for at least an hour!  Esther was sleeping when I snuck my nap in, but she woke while I was chasing my own z's and couldn't wait.  She at least hit the entire pad so rather than cleaning floors I just have more laundry to do, lol.

She is focused on nutrition and found a ProPlan food that she liked better than what they're already eating and I'll make that switch.  It's the turkey for sensitive stomachs instead of the salmon for sensitive stomachs and we're taking Esther off the puppy food - she didn't like the ProPlan Puppy at all.  She did say to take it with a grain of salt as she feeds raw and so can be a bit harsh on kibbles; however, I'm willing to see if changing to a "cool" protein will take Esther's energy level down a notch.  She also crunched the numbers on our treats and they're high in sugar and carbs; hence the recommendation to use the kibble for indoor training and she recommended some treats with better nutritional value for outdoor / high distraction training.  I'm up for giving things a try so I'll be purchasing those along with a 20' lead.  The kibble goes into a ziploc (or old Cool Whip container in my case), that gets filled with water and shaken up, then drained.  It goes in the fridge for a couple hours and voila, indoor doggie treats.  I tried it with the girls today outside and it was enough for Gertie to come, but not Esther, so I'll be using up what I have on hand and then using her recommended treats.

She recommended having the girls play in the smaller area we have fenced so we have better control and less competing stimuli when working to correct Esther's bullying, eliciting voluntary check-ins, and Gertie's recall.  Yep, Esther's been branded a bully.  I always took it for the brashness of youth, but after some observation she was deemed to have bullying behavior.

In the bigger yards the 20' lead with knots about every 3' is to be used.  That way if Esther picks up something and wants to play Keep Away I can grab it and slowly reel her in to retrieve whatever it is.  I was told to use common sense because if it's something dangerous and I need to get it then I should simply get it.  The lead will help with that.  She said to cut the handle so it doesn't get caught on things.  Gertie will be on the same lead so I can more easily stop her chasing / barking habits (she's gotten pretty bad what with me having focus on Esther so much).

She gave me numerous reading materials and a body language chart I can print out.  We have an accident calendar where blue ink = no accidents, red star = accident on my watch, red circle = accident on the husband's watch.

She encouraged me to start taking Gertie places again.  She said just because Esther can't / doesn't like to socialize Gertie shouldn't lose that privilege and that one-on-one time with me.  It was nice to get that "permission," because she's right - poor Gerts has kind of been punished because of Esther's behavior.

On the flip side I am to take Esther on fun trips in the car so she doesn't anticipate car = Veterinarian.

She didn't take my water bottle away, haha.  I can still use it as a tool for now (if the girls don't stop barking after I've told them to shhhh a couple times I shake the bottle and that's usually enough to stop it, very rarely do I actually have to squirt anyone - except the husband, he doesn't know any better and won't shhh, lol).

She gave us some product links for Esther's confinement when we're out.  Esther has now chewed the end off the latch so it can't be tucked under the catch and she can get the door open.  The next house will be tougher to crack!

20 - 30 recalls per day for no reason for both girls.  "Hi, how are you, here's a treat, bye."

I need to grab a recording of Esther with dogs on YouTube or the television and if she starts getting agitated we're to turn off whatever is playing until she's calm again.

I am to reward every "shake off" of stress.  It took her 11 minutes to do her first shake off while the trainer was here.  The trainer was very watchful of Esther's body language, jotting down notes of every lick, shape and size of the eyes and pupils, facial tension, etc . . . and explaining each to me and what they mean.

She did not look at the mess in the small living room I told her to ignore, lol.  She Did flick her eyes to the state of the kitchen and I saw a twinge.  Daughter was supposed to empty the dishwasher and put the rest of her mess away but fell asleep and I didn't have enough time to tidy it.  I also notice body language - just on a different species.  😆😆  I'm not a neat freak nor a complete slob (somewhere in the middle), but it's embarrassing to have the kitchen a fright when someone comes over.  Like, "no wonder your dogs are a mess, look at the state of your kitchen!"

Play soft music for Esther when she's crated and don't be afraid to use the crate for negative punishment.  That was confusing until she explained positive punishment is adding to their stress like a collar grab, shock, yelling, while negative punishment is taking away from their stress like a nap in a crate or removing them from playing.

If Esther doesn't recall, play time is over.

During play time ask for recalls in the first 1 - 2 minutes, then a couple more times throughout.  Whoever gets there first wins the jackpot of treats, the second one to arrive gets a single treat.  I'm not sure how this one is going to work out.  Esther did not seem bothered at all that she only got one treat.  She also didn't really see me giving the jackpot to Gertie so I need a tweak to my delivery method most likely.

The reactivity we'll work on later, but for now it's the basics.  The trainer ignored Esther the entire time we were going over paperwork (that was like 3½ hours) and let Esther lick her and told me what Esther was doing each time she was over there because I couldn't see.  Esther laid at the trainer's feet as well as mine several times.  When I brought Gertie down there was about 5 minutes of excitement and that's when Esther was branded a bully because Esther kept trying to entice play by biting Gertie's neck, jumping on Gerts, and pushing her out of the way.  Gertie responded playfully so I'm guessing the trainer saw something I didn't.

That's from the conversation.  She sent me a comprehensive email and summarized the goals at the bottom. Esther has like 10 where Gertie has 2, lol.  Both are to follow:  train, then play game, then walk, then feed with a meal.

Ziwi Peak. That's the treat name Esther went gaga over.

Oof, I'm tired just thinking about it all again!  I see I already goofed up after going through the information again.  I was supposed to do the recalls for play inside, not outside.  Inside, then small yard outside, then move to the bigger yard.  Oops!  Human training is way tougher than dog training.  😆

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Alright, so I already have to use the Red Pen on our accident calendar.  /sigh  I had my cataract lens replacement measurement appointment today and it was at the crack of dawn.  I made it to bed at 1:15 am, woo hoo, but after yesterday's excitement that still wasn't enough and I was so very tired.  I laid down to rest my (still dilated) eyes and dozed off for at least an hour!  Esther was sleeping when I snuck my nap in, but she woke while I was chasing my own z's and couldn't wait.  She at least hit the entire pad so rather than cleaning floors I just have more laundry to do, lol.

Oh my, glad that at least she aimed for the pad! 

She is focused on nutrition and found a ProPlan food that she liked better than what they're already eating and I'll make that switch.  It's the turkey for sensitive stomachs instead of the salmon for sensitive stomachs and we're taking Esther off the puppy food - she didn't like the ProPlan Puppy at all.  She did say to take it with a grain of salt as she feeds raw and so can be a bit harsh on kibbles; however, I'm willing to see if changing to a "cool" protein will take Esther's energy level down a notch. 

She also crunched the numbers on our treats and they're high in sugar and carbs; hence the recommendation to use the kibble for indoor training and she recommended some treats with better nutritional value for outdoor / high distraction training.  I'm up for giving things a try so I'll be purchasing those along with a 20' lead. 

The kibble goes into a ziploc (or old Cool Whip container in my case), that gets filled with water and shaken up, then drained.  It goes in the fridge for a couple hours and voila, indoor doggie treats.  I tried it with the girls today outside and it was enough for Gertie to come, but not Esther, so I'll be using up what I have on hand and then using her recommended treats.

It's always great to use up the kibble for indoor training! 

She recommended having the girls play in the smaller area we have fenced so we have better control and less competing stimuli when working to correct Esther's bullying, eliciting voluntary check-ins, and Gertie's recall.  Yep, Esther's been branded a bully.  I always took it for the brashness of youth, but after some observation she was deemed to have bullying behavior.

This is also confirmed by studies sadly. With the instigators of most fights being younger dogs and the second dog in the home. However, I am very glad that you have sought in-person help for this early-best to nip things in the bud. Monitoring play very closely is important. 

20 - 30 recalls per day for no reason for both girls.  "Hi, how are you, here's a treat, bye."

I need to grab a recording of Esther with dogs on YouTube or the television and if she starts getting agitated we're to turn off whatever is playing until she's calm again.

Awesome! Working under threshold is very important and making recalls fun help set the foundation for success. 

I am to reward every "shake off" of stress.  It took her 11 minutes to do her first shake off while the trainer was here.  The trainer was very watchful of Esther's body language, jotting down notes of every lick, shape and size of the eyes and pupils, facial tension, etc . . . and explaining each to me and what they mean.

Those shake offs to reduce stress and tension are a dog's sort of way of saying 'pheww... glad it's over!" It's  always good to pay attention in what context they occur so to have a feel of how the dog experiences things. 

Play soft music for Esther when she's crated and don't be afraid to use the crate for negative punishment.  That was confusing until she explained positive punishment is adding to their stress like a collar grab, shock, yelling, while negative punishment is taking away from their stress like a nap in a crate or removing them from playing.

Yes, it gets confusing with these terms  because in behavior terms, the words positive and negative are not used to denote good or bad. Positive simply means addition and negative simply means subtraction. Also, in behavior terms, the word punishment is meant to denote a behavior that decreases in frequency. 

  When I brought Gertie down there was about 5 minutes of excitement and that's when Esther was branded a bully because Esther kept trying to entice play by biting Gertie's neck, jumping on Gerts, and pushing her out of the way.  Gertie responded playfully so I'm guessing the trainer saw something I didn't.

It could be that Gertie's playful behavior in reality is just her way of trying to block her.  Does she look loose and wiggly? Have a play face? Does she play bow? Or do the rocking-horse gait? I think once in a video you posted, she didn't really look "into play" but more like she wanted to keep access to a toy. Younger dogs can be really a pain with older, calmer dogs. Also, could be the Esther is not really playing in the real sense of the word, but trying to block Gertie from interacting. Just assumptions, of course, you can ask her next time about what may be going on. 

Ziwi Peak. That's the treat name Esther went gaga over.

Oh yes, I remember giving these New Zealand foods to Petra when she was sick with cancer and she went crazy for it for a week or so. It doesn't even looking like dog food or smell like it, so I can see how it can used as a treat!

Thanks for the update! Happy training!

[JMFS]

VitaEssentials freeze dried raw food is proving to be a good training tool.  https://www.chewy.com/brands/shop-by-dog-11279

I grabbed the nibs in turkey and I believe a duck.  Even Monkey likes the turkey (haven't opened the duck, yet).  Esther was heeling beautifully, even with distractions, this morning.  I'm still working on the routine change.  She wants train > play game > walk > eat.  Yesterday I managed potty > walk around the yard > eat.  It's tough to fit it all in with two other dogs and the cat and I'm thanking my lucky stars I work for myself because waking up at 5 am to do all this is Not appealing to me, lol.  I can do it on our own time schedule at least.  This morning it was train > walk > eat.  The game play is the one I can't really squeeze in there because poor Gertie is like Dying of hunger and all antsy.  I'll get it figured out!  I need to ask her if she wanted the train > game > walk > eat for Gertie as well, or if it was only Esther because if it's only Esther then I can feed Gerts first.

Esther has become Very good at sit and down.  Initially down was eliciting barking because she wanted her treat and Now.  Uh uh little mama, you put that hip to the floor or I hold this treat foreeeever!  I started with rewarding her just for the down and when that was fluid I added the requirement of hip to floor rather than ready to spring into action.

Gertie seems bored with the whole sit and down, is reluctant to do them, rolls her eyes, then does it for a treat.  The goal with her is to get her sit fluid so she sits for guests instead of being her overjoyed tail wagging wiggle butted self.  The greeting the trainer got from Esther and Gertie couldn't have been more different.  Here are her Esther observations:

Esther May, upon seeing and meeting alert barking, tail low but not tucked. hackles, whale eye, 'cobra' hyper vigilance, dilated pupils. tail up, curious and willing to investigate me with nose bumps and small lick, investigated my bag.  Tail raised and wagging.  Attempted to get on the couch with Abby, possibly to relax but was taken by the leash.  Seems to be of a healthy weight.  Worried about vacuum, furrowed brow, full engagement, some stiffness and forward whiskers.

Esther's goals:

• Nutrition to optimal- Use regular kibble as often as possible to increase the value of higher value treats and to help the higher value treats to be more novel.
• Use food (kibble) in the home and have a tier structure for treats (Low to high value and used appropriately)
• Gain peak performance for at least Sit, Down, Sit Stay and Down Stay, Wait, Leave It, Watch Me and Leash skills (Loose leash, heel, left, right and about turns and Left U-turn)
• Increase skills for impulse control, (Stays, Waits, step and sit, lunge toy)
• Remodel Look At That Game
• Work towards desensitizing to triggers.
• Address bully behavior
• Take Gertie on walks by herself  on the trail.
• Make sure Gertie gets some really good one on one time with both of you.

Gertie's goals:

• Remodel the wait at the door or restructer.
• Teach Gertie to Sit for Greeting and use Negative Punishment (see the jumping)

😆😆😆

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Sounds like a great plan and you have awesome goodies to reinforce all desired behaviors. This trainer seems to be on the same page as me when it come to methods (like desensitizing to triggers, look at that, about turns, impulse control training and using kibble for indoor, easier exercises).

I am glad to hear that Esther is improving in her training. I am sure your dogs love all the extra attention and training you are providing, even though it means to get up so early. I am not a morning person, so I know how it must feel.😁  On the positive side, it will all pay back nicely as you start reaping the rewards that come with all the training. 

 

[JMFS]

Esther is becoming a master at sit.  I use it for so many things and it really helps to deescalate things and get her focus back on me.  :)  It also helps with leash pulling when I'm putting on or taking off my Sloggers.  Gertie still seems to think she's too well-behaved to bother with sit.  She gets away with more because she's generally calmer and rarely does anything "wrong."  Once Esther is better at response it shall be Miss Gertrude's turn. 

Both of them Really like that VitalEssentials raw food as a treat.  I can use my thumb nails to break them into smaller pieces.  She told me to try it with the Zuke's and whatnot and the girls respond just as well as they ever did with a whole treat. 

I do need to check that swapping walk and train is okay with her.  With Esther's incontinence it's really important to get outside asap!  Morning session is sit, down, bed, and here in any combination.  Trainer comes back next Thursday and we'll see what she has in store for us for that session.

And yes, I was Not made for mornings, lol. 

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Sit can be used for loads of things! As a part of an impulse control program, you can insert a sit before providing anything the dog loves. Sit before opening a door, sit before lowering the food bowl, sit before snapping the leash on, sit before petting, etc. It's all good stuff you can ask for using the "Premack Principle style."  https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/premack-principle/

Sounds like you're on a roll! 

 

[JMFS]

Woo hoo!  I like it!  She's been having issues with anal glands and I can't express them externally.  We all know how she feels about the vet so I gave internal a try.  I was able to get the right one but when I attempted the left she was done.  I'm sure it wasn't the smoothest expression in this history of expressions so I don't blame her.  It was uncomfortable for me, too, lol.  She's still scooting so I know there's more to do.  Poor girl.  Now I'm curious whether female dogs are more susceptible to being unable to express on their own.  Momo nor Brownie never had these woes, but all three girls do. 

She absolutely loves the Jazz Up Settle Down game.  I have the scratches and bruises to prove it!  She was still jazzed up when we went into the yard and the excitement of being outside stoked that flames and she gave me a tremendous display of jazzing up, ugh!  She's getting better each day, though.  She's actually settled on the couch with us the last couple nights where normally she curls up when we're ready to retire.  Prior to that it's up, down, up, down, until I remember I can put her in the kennel instead of getting frustrated with the disruptions.  6 more months of teenagerdom to go!  Thursday Leah gets here for more and I hope I've done enough of the homework to make her proud.  There were 25 recommendations in addition to the goals and I am trying my best.  24 hours in a day just aren't enough on top of the job, house, husband, etc . . ..  Crossing my fingers Esther will show visible improvement or changes when Leah gets here.  It's a terrible feeling to work so hard then have the teacher check your work and it's a blank page!

We started working on a stronger Leave today and she did quite well.  I started with a mundane item, then changed that out for a different boring item, then upgraded to an empty treat toy.  She grabbed the treat toy a couple times, but quickly realized I had the softened kibble and the toy had Nothin'.  It was nice to see her ignore that toy.  I suppose I might start with that toy next time then up the ante and have the mundane items waiting in the wings in case we have to go back a step.

The girls haven't passed playing in the small yard, yet.  I'm to let them out in that yard then after a minute or two, or as soon as Esther starts bullying, call them to me.  If they don't respond then play time is to end.  It's ended the 3 times I've tried it so far.  She wanted me to start inside, but I don't allow them to rough house inside so I had to skip that step (not allowing indoor play is one of the management items to preventing fights - every fight has been inside).

Can't wait to see what she has in store for us Thursday.  Even if it's something boring it's always nice to have that professional set of eyes to firm things up.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

 She's been having issues with anal glands and I can't express them externally.  We all know how she feels about the vet so I gave internal a try.  I was able to get the right one but when I attempted the left she was done.  I'm sure it wasn't the smoothest expression in this history of expressions so I don't blame her.  It was uncomfortable for me, too, lol.  She's still scooting so I know there's more to do.  Poor girl.  Now I'm curious whether female dogs are more susceptible to being unable to express on their own.  Momo nor Brownie never had these woes, but all three girls do.

 

Most dogs I have known that had anal gland issues were dogs who produced softer stools. Among Einstein and Petra, Petra had a tendency to produce softer stools, especially on walks. Walks had the power to make her poop even 3 times in a row, with the poops starting solid and then ending being "soft serve" sorry for the TMI. I never figured entirely out whether this was a matter of nerves, a desire to mark with stools, or just the movement triggering her to poop more. The vet was never concerned as long as she was active, hungry and had no signs of parasites in her fecal tests. Fact is, on days she wasn't walked she never did those 3 poops in a row. 

 

In any case, with her mushy poops, her stools weren't solid enough to empty the gland so she would lick and chew her bum areas at times and I would get those lovely whiffs of rotten tuna fish., yuck! For a good part, her issue was solved with the addition of plain canned pumpkin. 

 

Other dog with anal gland issues was a female who was over for boarding and training. She developed mushy stools during her stay because her owner mistakenly provided me with the food her other dog was on. A couple of days later she had a noticeable swelling on the left side of her bum that initially I thought was just a little bug bite. I made a picture of it and owner wasn't concerned and her vet just said to keep an eye on it. The morning after, it was dark pink and leaking a couple drops of blood. To make it brief, I quickly figured her anal gland had ruptured, and had to take her to the vet. 

 

Other dog with anal issues was a female who boarded often with us, who also produced the lovely fishy smell and she too had a history of not producing stools that were solid enough. I informed the owner and things got better with a diet change. 

 

So now that I think about, these were all females too. Coincidence? Who knows!  I only knew of a male with some anal gland issues, but not to the point of producing

fishy smells or needing expression, he was just occasionally scooting. He was a smaller dog though with a dachshund type of conformation and a little obese too. 

 

She absolutely loves the Jazz Up Settle Down game.  I have the scratches and bruises to prove it!  She was still jazzed up when we went into the

 yard and the excitement of being outside stoked that flames and she gave me a tremendous display of jazzing up, ugh!  She's getting better each day, though.  

 

I don't know what toy you are using for Jazzing, but if she's nippy or misses often, a longer tug toy may work better to keep your hands farther away from her mouth. Using the toy low can help prevent scratches from jumping. Also, watch your vocalizations so you don't revv her up too much.

 

She's actually settled on the couch with us the last couple nights where normally she curls up when we're ready to retire.  Prior to that it's up, down, up, down, until I remember I can put her in the kennel instead of getting frustrated with the disruptions.  6 more months of teenagerdom to go!  

 

Thursday Leah gets here for more and I hope I've done enough of the homework to make her proud.  There were 25 recommendations in addition to the goals and I am trying my best.  24 hours in a day just aren't enough on top of the job, house, husband, etc . . ..  Crossing my fingers Esther will show visible improvement or changes when Leah gets here.  It's a terrible feeling to work so hard then have the teacher check your work and it's a blank page!

 

I hear you, it can be challenging when there is not enough time. Let her know you have tried your best. Maybe she can help you compile a list of which of those 25 recommendations are a priority or just highlight them with a marker.

 

We started working on a stronger Leave today and she did quite well.  I started with a mundane item, then changed that out for a different boring item, then upgraded to an empty treat toy.  She grabbed the treat toy a couple times, but quickly realized I had the softened kibble and the toy had Nothin'.  It was nice to see her ignore that toy.  I suppose I might start with that toy next time then up the ante and have the mundane items waiting in the wings in case we have to go back a step.

 

The girls haven't passed playing in the small yard, yet.  I'm to let them out in that yard then after a minute or two, or as soon as Esther starts bullying, 

call them to me.  If they don't respond then play time is to end. 

 

 It's ended the 3 times I've tried it so far.  She wanted me to start inside, but I don't allow them to rough house inside so I had to skip that step (not allowing indoor play is one of the management items to preventing fights - every fight has been inside).

 

Can't wait to see what she has in store for us Thursday.  Even if it's something boring it's always nice to have that professional set of eyes to firm 

things up.

 

Best wishes for a productive session! 

[JMFS]

Momo used to entirely empty himself at the dog park to the point of nothing but (my turn for TMI) green slime that I had No idea how to pick up.  I would kick some dirt over it and try to pick that up the best I could.  For him I think it was nerves.  He was always Mr. Independent at home, but when we got to the dog park he was Mr. Velcro.  After the initial, "wowowowow, all these dogs! Here I gooooo," it was like, "uh, that's a lot of dogs and they're like . . . sniffing and looking at me.  Moooooom!"

That poor pup with the ruptured gland!  Owie.  

For the left side I'm going to have the husband hold her leash - she did the C body curl a couple times when I was getting the right side.  Better safe . . ..  I'm ambidextrous to a point so I'll try left handing it so as not to have to use my thumb and hopefully make it easier on her as a result.  Hers is metallic - like wet metal.  Much preferred to Gertie's rotten tuna, but still a bit nauseating due to the strength of the odor.

Training went very well.  She said she was sorry to have me do some of the remedial things because both girls are already quite well on their way, Gertie especially, but it will help to restructure my technique.  She thinks my skill level is above what she's having me do for the restructure so good job Adrienne for helping me get there!  💜  We got a compliment today.  😊

Gertie's homework is sitting at the door and sitting for greetings, regardless of who it is.  Recalls (still - forever if we're honest).  Step and Sit is a game we'll be playing with her.

Esther's homework . . . lol.  Leave - she knocked this one out of the park after about 7 repeats with Leah.  Leah says Esther is "scary smart," and I agree.  That's part of the issue, ha!  It was the same problem with Momo - he was smarter than me!  Esther started looking away when presented with the "forbidden" hand and at one point even moved away from it to get her reward.  Go Esther!  Naturally it was a little less smooth when it was my turn.  85% of dog training is human training after all!

Esther is also going to be learning heel, restructured.  Leah was really good about explaining where Esther's body should be and how I should lead with the foot next to Esther and I could use the seam on my jeans as a good idea of where Esther should be taking the treat.  She showed me how to use the fence as a guide to get Esther in the correct place.  We'll work on body position in the future so Esther is parallel with me instead of cattywampus, but for now it's getting her close to having her toes just behind my toes.  Considering the puppies across the street were out Esther did marvelously.

Lastly, the Step and Sit game for Esther as well.

I am going to learn to reward for each, "yes" I issue, regardless of intention.  This will build trust.  I have a bad habit of saying yes when there isn't going to be a payment.  I may be the worst of the students in this equation by the time everything is done!  I will also be getting into the habit of praising even when there won't be a reward, but that praise shan't include the word, "yes."  🤦‍♀️  I'm like a Thesaurus until it comes to training and then I'm on repeat.

The pups are sleeping now, lol.  Time for me to try to get some work done during this peaceful moment.  It was a great session and she was pleased with the progress I made so I get to stay on green instead of being demoted.  I think I should get a treat for that.  <eyeballs the "leftover" KitKats from Halloween>  (We never get trick or treaters . . . ).

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Momo used to entirely empty himself at the dog park to the point of nothing but (my turn for TMI) green slime that I had No idea how to pick up.  I would kick some dirt over it and try to pick that up the best I could.

I remember some years back, they invented a product that you would spray over difficult-to-clean poop that would freeze it into a solid piece so it's easier to pick up. I wonder if it's still being sold, I think it was a genius invention! 

For the left side I'm going to have the husband hold her leash - she did the C body curl a couple times when I was getting the right side.  Better safe . . ..  I'm ambidextrous to a point so I'll try left handing it so as not to have to use my thumb and hopefully make it easier on her as a result.  Hers is metallic - like wet metal.  Much preferred to Gertie's rotten tuna, but still a bit nauseating due to the strength of the odor.

I hear you. It's one of those unpleasant tasks for both dogs and owners. I used to help the vets by distracting the dogs with some tasty tidbits as many hated it, although I am sure they felt relief afterwards. Have you discussed this issue with the vet? What are their thoughts? Do you go on poop patrols and check her poops? There is a fecal score for dogs too and the best stools are described as being dry, easy to pick up (without leaving residues on grass) and log shaped (my turn again for TMI!) 

I am going to learn to reward for each, "yes" I issue, regardless of intention.  This will build trust.  I have a bad habit of saying yes when there isn't going to be a payment.  I may be the worst of the students in this equation by the time everything is done!  I will also be getting into the habit of praising even when there won't be a reward, but that praise shan't include the word, "yes."  🤦‍♀️  I'm like a Thesaurus until it comes to training and then I'm on repeat.

Sounds a good plan. The yes is a verbal marker which pinpoints exactly what behavior will be getting a treat. This is different from praise which is used to simply tell the dog what a good girl she is. It’s like the difference between a teacher saying “correct” to a student for giving a right answer and giving a sticker right afterward and just plainly telling him what a great student he is. It's therefore important that you choose different words for each. 

The pups are sleeping now, lol.  Time for me to try to get some work done during this peaceful moment.  It was a great session and she was pleased with the progress I made so I get to stay on green instead of being demoted.  I think I should get a treat for that.  <eyeballs the "leftover" KitKats from Halloween>  (We never get trick or treaters . . . )

You sure deserve some treats too for the job well done!

[JMFS]

We had to go to the vet's today.  250 mg of trazadone for 46 lbs isn't enough.  She still didn't let them examine her without me.  I brought her flirt pole, which got her in the door, and her meatos (the VitalEssentials food reminds me of Cheetos made of meat) and that was all good until they tried to examine.  They came and got me and all was right in the world.  It took a couple minutes to get her calm again, but they were able to take a fecal, feel the anal glands, and examine her foot.  When the doc and I were talking I gave Esther a treat every time she looked at the doc.

Glands are empty but smell metallic so she's suspecting blood and gave us antibiotics.  Prednisone.  Which increases thirst and the need to urinate.  /sigh  Lol  We've been accident free for 5 days, a personal best!  So now we're upping the ante.  :p  Foot has some kind of ulcerated bulbous wound on it and she said that's common on puppies.  Just keep it clean, keep an eye on it.  It should puss up in a few days then dry out.

This poor girl needs to catch a break!

There were 3 lab puppies in the car next to us.  Yellow.  Except for the faces and ears they looked like Esther!  I had to go see.  Esther was okay'ish until the fellow adopting one of the pups kept approaching her window.  I warned him she has issues and she let him know but he kept coming back so I rolled up the window.  I had it down so they could see her coloring at the shoulders, just like the puppies.  I didn't want to risk a bite or escalating her mood so we mosied on down the road.  Compared to usual she did quite well despite his continued quick approaches.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Oh my, prednisone? Is this the same vet who is aware of her peeing problems, and diagnosed her and put her on medication to reduce her peeing? So is she now both on antibiotics and prednisone?

Did they tell you why they couldn't examine her? Was she moving too much? Was it when they touched a particular body part? If they told you what she was struggling with, you could know what to work on and possibly organize some "mock" vet visits, maybe with the help of your trainer. Maybe she was in pain and guarding her bum if the area is inflamed/infected. 

I am glad that when you intervened, she was more collaborative. Good job in giving her a treat every time she looked at the vet! I wished more vets would let owners assist. I had a good one that let me always be present for blood draws. There's still a belief that dogs misbehave when owners are around which prompts them to bring the dogs to the back of the office. Or maybe they just restrain them and owners may not like to see that. But then again, with this whole pandemic ordeal maybe they prefer to not have people too close. 

Is the barking at people when in the car a new behavior? There's a guide for this here if you ever have a helper who can drive. Both Einstein and Petra at some point started barking at people approaching the car when they were adolescents, especially when it started to get dark. I would sit behind with them when hubby would drive around looking to get that positive conditioned emotional response upon spotting people walk by. 

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/barking-strangers-car/

[JMFS]

She took treats from them happily initially, but the gal said when they attempted to examine she took the treat but growled while taking it.  That's when they came and got me.

Yep, same vet.  She acknowledged the incontinence.  However, Esther's been doing really well the past week so I think I've hit the magic number on titrating the Proin combined with the Incurin.  Or maybe the bladder shifted or who knows.  All I know is that she's gone 2 hours between outings lately and it's been Heaven, lol.  I even upped the amount I give her and she's left some in the bowl several times now.

They told me some dogs do far worse with their human counterparts present and others do much better.  I am inclined to say the helicopter / coddling companions would make matters worse by being nervous or aggressive towards the doctors and techs themselves.  "How dare you hurt my baby," or, "do you have to do it that way," kind of mentality.  I go in there with the mentality of, "okay miss ma'am, this is going to suck but it's for the greater good of your health so I'm going to help them help you."  Owners who exude confidence and positivity I think would be helpful in getting their pooches through the ordeal.  It's also a smaller practice, not a national provider like Banfield, so they have the final say in whether they're going to allow owners in or not.  Once I was there and Finally got that muzzle on her - she was dodging and ducking it so we need to work on that - she was compliant.  They took it nice and slow to form a more positive association with being poked and prodded.  Banfield has the better cost but that comes at the price of my dogs' mental well being so I'm likely going to be switching Gertie over to this clinic as well.  Just need to find a wellness plan that can get us discounted.  Banfield is 100% the pandemic.  It just needs to go away already!  It's caused so much mental anguish for pets and humans alike.  I'll leave it at that.

I think she was doing as you said, guarding her rear.  It got to the point to where I couldn't palpate it without her doing the C with her body and whale eyeing me.  That's when I decided to take her in - I didn't want to risk injuring her with my bungling or upsetting her further by causing pain.  She did marvelously when the doc was examining the tender bits, though she wouldn't take her treats.  Next time I bring in the Ziwi Peak - up the reward a bit.  Or maybe I'll try some liver paste, take a page out of Frederyk's book.

The grumping at people and animals in the car is nothing new.  I gave her treats every time a tech came out and caught her eye and marked it with a "yes!"  The boy was simply moving far too fast for her comfort.  Especially with those adorable puppies nearby.  I was thinking of going to the vet's office and hanging out in the parking lot to do more conditioning as people and pets come and go.  I warned them they may see me and I'm not being a creeper, lol.  The doc said she wished more people trained their dogs for these situations.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

 Esther's been doing really well the past week so I think I've hit the magic number on titrating the Proin combined with the Incurin.  Or maybe the bladder shifted or who knows.  All I know is that she's gone 2 hours between outings lately and it's been Heaven, lol.  I even upped the amount I give her and she's left some in the bowl several times now.

I am glad to hear that!  With the added prednisone I was already imaging her drinking like a dehydrated horse in the desert and then peeing like one afterward. And eating like she's starving, based on how my dogs reacted to this drug. It's already frustrating to deal with it in normal dogs, I can't imagine how it must feel with a dog with bladder and increased drinking issues to start with. 

They told me some dogs do far worse with their human counterparts present and others do much better.  I am inclined to say the helicopter / coddling companions would make matters worse by being nervous or aggressive towards the doctors and techs themselves.  "How dare you hurt my baby," or, "do you have to do it that way," kind of mentality.  I go in there with the mentality of, "okay miss ma'am, this is going to suck but it's for the greater good of your health so I'm going to help them help you."  Owners who exude confidence and positivity I think would be helpful in getting their pooches through the ordeal. 

Yes, I agree, how the owners react may cause dogs to feed off their emotions, so that can be a good reason for taking them back. It just seems like in some places, it just becomes a habit and they don't evaluate whether the owners may help make the situation better.  According to  a study published on August 1, 2017 in Physiology & Behavior Volume 177 dogs appeared to be more stressed when taken away from their owners. I think a problem is that dogs who seem to "behave better" are just in a frozen state of learned helplessness. Poor dogs, one would wish so hard they could understand it's for their health!

You sound a lot like me in your approach and mindset. The goal being helping our dogs get through it for their own good.

The grumping at people and animals in the car is nothing new.  I gave her treats every time a tech came out and caught her eye and marked it with a "yes!"  The boy was simply moving far too fast for her comfort.  Especially with those adorable puppies nearby.  I was thinking of going to the vet's office and hanging out in the parking lot to do more conditioning as people and pets come and go.  I warned them they may see me and I'm not being a creeper, lol.  The doc said she wished more people trained their dogs for these situations.

That's an awesome idea! 

[JMFS]

So much for That plan.  She got into stagnant water Tuesday and felt awful today.  Took her to the vet because she was exhibiting the same behavior and signs as Mo did.  We're not having that again!  I was in tears when I called the vet the 2nd time because the first time she'd already thrown up all the water she'd had and they had us scheduled for 4:30, which was 3 hours away.  When she threw up again I called to see if they could move us up and they did.  She was refusing food, couldn't get comfy, and had diarrhea in addition to the vomiting.  The only thing she wanted was water. 

Didn't have time or the ability to give her the trazadone this time and she was So good, considering.  They were able to do everything without me going in, though she was whale eyeing them and stiff as a board.  She did like the one gal and took to her "immediately" for Esther.  Not shying away is considered practically best friends for anyone outside of my husband or myself.

They kept her there for a few hours to give her fluids, Famotidine, Metronodazole, and Cerenia as well as do x-rays and ultrasound.  She has a bit of bloating going on, but the vet isn't worried about twisting - it didn't look that dilated at this point so hopefully we caught it super early - and this Vet isn't taking any chances.  She's home with a cath and a cone and she's pretty well drained.  They gave us some Royal Canin GI wet food to give her and I'll try that here momentarily.  Want to time it with our own dinner so we can jump up at a moment's notice in case she needs to go outside.

I did get some comfort from this knowing that despite the diarrhea and vomiting she was only .75 higher than normal for dehydration.  That's verification she's getting enough water normally.  Her water test showed 60 oz / day and that's what I give her (10 oz in 6 "doses") each day.  I feel better having proof that it's plenty.

We go back in the morning for a check up.  I'm whooped, she's whooped.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Poor baby! I wonder what could have been in that water to make her so sick! I don't think you have blue algae in your area, I think that's mostly nearby the lakes in Nebraska and Michigan. Maybe giardia? However the incubation period for that is 5 days up to 2 weeks. 

I hope she gets better soon! I imagine how worried you may be feeling. I am glad though she's home with you being pampered.

Best wishes for tomorrow's checkup. Keeping you both in my thoughts!

 

[JMFS]

She's back to her hyper self.  Definitely feeling better.  The gas is less present and there's food in her tummy and intestines.  No BM, yet, just scooting on her butt.  The funniest part about yesterday was when they couldn't get a stool sample and the husband took her one more time and she pooped.  I was on the phone with the tech and told him and he said, "Oh snap!  Yes!"  Never heard anyone so ecstatic about diarrhea in my life, haha.

The husband reminded me she's been gassy for a while now so it could go back even further.  We'll have test results for Giardia and everything else known to man.  I'm broke now, lol, but she's on the road to recovery. Their loyalty program gives you x points for x dollars and we're at 11 / 16 towards a free visit.  Just one more reason pet insurance is so important!  I need to find a good one. Nationwide has a plan that I'm going to look into.  I'll post it if I deem it worthy. 

Not much sleep for her or me.  Husband was smart and slept on the couch.  He must have realized cone + crate = mayhem.  Every 2 hours she was wanting to go out, but nothing happened.  No more cone and I was allowed to take the bandage off 20 minutes ago.  She's not messing with the cath site so I'm hopeful.

We have all these meds to give her.  D is technically not a med, it's a probiotic, but if it has to be given on a schedule it's a med to me!  I had to label them instead of writing the name because they wouldn't fit on the whiteboard.  Antibiotic, gastroprotectant, anti nausea, and the probiotic on top of her Incurin and Proin, whew!  She was taken off the other antibiotic because it could cause gas so that's one less med at least.  She's greedily chomping down the Royal Canin GI food and holding it down.

I did catch some videos of her behavior when a human was walking their furry friend and then sat on one of the benches about 15 - 20 feet from us.  I'm so confused as to what she's thinking.  Whines, growls, pacing, panting . . ..  I sent three to Leah so she can assess and will pop them up on my YouTube later in case anyone is interested.

Not much training going on this week with her needing to eat GI food.  Going to go stuff her tire with it now so we can do our date night.  Mama needs a break, even if only a couple hours!

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Glad to hear she is doing much better. Pheew! Big sigh or relief! Lots of medications,  but you have it pat down with your nicely organized schedule. 

I will keep an eye for Gertie's video. 

Best wishes for a speedy recovery. 

 

[JMFS]

This is just an update / progress post. 

We went over Esther's results yesterday (it was Training Day) and she was interested to note that there are several one-person kind of dogs, almost 50% guarding breeds, and we're wondering if the herding is maybe what's influencing Esther to constantly try to move Gertie around.

Most of the breeds that make her up are low on the barking scale, which tracks.  She only barks for separation or when Gertie starts barking.  For the most part she's blissfully quiet!  When she needs or wants something she makes noises rather than barks so she's very vocal, just not overly loud.

I think we can see where her energy level comes from, lol.  I don't think there's a single relaxed breed in her results.  Chow Chow may be the closest with an energy rating of 3 / 5 on the AKC scale.

Aside from the Bloodhoud, Catahoula, and Rottweiler all the breeds hit on the mouthy scale and boy is that ever true for her!  She has to touch Everything with her mouth.  Thank goodness she has excellent bite inhibition and is generally soft mouthed.

We worked on basket muzzle training, woo hoo!  I really want to get that trained so she can wear her very own muzzle to the vet's office rather than them trying to struggle with her to get it on.  I think that will lower some of her anxiety.  We also worked on politely exiting the house.  Ever since she injured my finger she's been pulling on the leash, scanning the yard, and anxious to get out there and explore.  It must have been highly reinforcing to break free that day.  I'm waiting for a sit at anything that can be perceived as a door (we have Tons of opportunities there - every room can be closed off).  When I get a sit it's, "good girl, 2, 3, 4, 5," then "let's go!"  Once we cross the threshold it's time to sit again and wait for the "yes," which is my marker and means a tasty reward.  It worked so very well when the trainer was here, but once I was on my own, well . . . we have some work to do, lol.

Gertie got some attention, too.  She is an enthusiastic greeter so, as I mentioned in another post, we're working on getting a down on her mat when people come in.  For now we're at the point of waiting for a down, "good girl," counting to 5, then "yes," followed by tossing a treat to reset.  She helped me remodel my marker - I was marking the treat being tossed rather than the down.

Esther's leash manners still need improvement, but they're markedly better.  I was able to walk her past the yard guys, to the mailbox across the street, grab the trash bin, then walk her back into the garage.  She pulled a couple times but I was able to get her back quickly with the help of Ziwi Peak.  :D 

Husband has been down for the count with Covid the past 14 days as of today so I've been stretched thin.  I am thus far unaffected and figure I would have been sick by now so I'm calling myself in the clear.  My test came out negative in less than 3 minutes, though I did wait the full 15 just in case.  While he was miserable on the couch (and out of my hair!) I managed to clear more of my trail, and it's looking pretty good.  I have more poison oak on my face, lol.  It must be on my gloves and I sometimes absentmindedly swipe at the sweat - it's a habit I need to break.   I began clearing a potty area so I can more easily clean up after her.  I found some solar spot lights that will help me at night and some solar string lights to Hopefully light the trail.  I haven't had much luck with solars, but I also bought cheap ones in the past.  I bit the bullet and paid a bit more for these so my fingers are crossed!  Not having to carry a flashlight at night would be hugely helpful.  If they work well then I'll purchase more for the fence line out front.  The spotlights are certainly bright, and they can be USB charged if the sun doesn't work or it's grey out like today.

A thing of curiosity has occurred with Esther.  She's been off the Incurin and Proin for 8 days now (Chewy had issues in getting the Rx delivered and I was sweating it, lol).  Rather than cleaning messes all week, though, we only had one accident after she drank all of Gertie's water in one session.  Out of curiosity I've bumped her up to 12 oz from 8 oz per serving and she's holding it thus far!  I am going to hold on to the meds and wait to see what happens.  I couldn't find a single article online that mentions anything about the issue resolving with maturity so I have a question for the vet if Esther goes for another week with excellent control.  I'd imagine the medicines are well and truly out of her system by now!  The Proin strengthens the smooth muscles for better urinary control so it could be that they're good 'n strong now, but could backslide once the medicine is no longer helping.  I would love for her to be able to live a drug free life since there are always side effects, even if we can't see them.  Fingers are crossed!

The girls have been serious fight-free since the last time I posted about a fight.  Once in a while Gertie will snip at Esther, but Esther has backed off each time.  It's usually when they're sleeping and Esther has the audacity to stretch into Gertie.  Last night there was a small correction for Esther standing over Gertie while my husband was petting Esther.  I corrected Esther, but was then made aware that she wasn't doing anything wrong (say the humans) and Gertie just grumped at her.  So my husband received a correction in the form of a reminder that Gerts doesn't like her sleeping space invaded by Esther.  Anyone else, including the cat, can do it, but not Esther.

I hope all has been well with you!

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Hi Jennifer,

I took a look at those results and you surely have an interesting mixture of breeds! Variety is the spice of life! Personally, I saw mostly pit bull and Labrador in her. The Catahoula and Chow chow is certainly surprising. Is her tongue all pink?

I love to have dogs sit politely at doors, it's one of the first things I train because it's so helpful in many ways. With young puppies, I wait until they have some better bladder control and they catch on quickly and soon it becomes their way to grab my attention and signal when they need to potty. 

Sorry to hear your hubby got Covid, so many people I know have been catching it.  I hope he feels better soon. Glad to hear you are OK. 

That's encouraging news the fact the Esther is doing better with her incontinence despite having temporarily stopped the meds. Definitely inquire with your vet on this. 

Glad to also hear that things have been OK between the girls with no fights. It's nice to hear that Esther is backing off.  Did you cue it or is she doing so voluntarily? Has your trainer worked with you directly on the issue?

Thanks for the update!