3 months old pup : Dog training or Puppy training

[FrederykBlot]

Hello,

I've presented my little Loki in the "Canine picture thread", and I'm wondering a bit how to get the most of the site

Loki is 3 months old, so I'm not sure if I need to go more into the "Puppy training" part of the site, or if I should get into "Dog training" directly

He's mostly potty trained : only accidents happened because of us owners being to casual about the signs
We have basic Sit, Leave It, Wait inside the house, a little more difficult in the yard, very very hard during walks
He can play good "Touch" and "Seek"

Our biggest concern is his inability to settle alone on his own. He is a tendency to go from post wake up high energy to restless over excitment without having the "correct under threshold" state of mind 

And I'm starting feeling guilty and wondering if it doesn't come from us and our schedule. We started to go with a specific schedule because when left alone in the house after play and training, he would go on everything even if obviously tired: furniture, electric wires, couch...
So when he's awake we do : game (fetch + tug) to decrease the energy levels, then training and mental game, then cooling down with chews, then walk, potty, then nap in crate. This make usually something around 2 hours awake for 2+ hours nap

The walk is the calming part if he became too aroused with plays / training. Usually after the walk he settle quite fast in the crate

Is it ok ? Too much ? I tend to read that high activity while awake induce dopamine release, which is addictive, which make it even worse to have pups that can be calm on their own and so on, so I'm starting to really doubt myself here... 

So given the situation, I was wondering, what would be my best approach based on what is on the site ?

Should I try already the things in the "Dog training" part ? Or should I stick only to the puppy training part for a while because "Dog training" is for older ones ? Or just take what makes sense in both part ? or address our concern in a very specific that is not really on the articles ?

 

In advance, thanks for your help

 

[Adrienne]

Hello and welcome to the forums,

I have seen the picture of Loki. What an adorable fluffy puppy!

It's so great to hear that he's doing so well in potty training. Keep up the great work!

At your pup's young age, you should visit the puppy sections to make up the most of this time to socialize, potty train and prevent any future problems by nipping them early in the bud. You can also do some of the easiest brain games (pre-school/elementary) to keep his mind busy. For the treasure hunt game, a helper can hold him on leash as you work on hiding the kibble around the home or yard until he's able of holding a longer stay. 

It is common misconception that puppies should start being trained when they are older (years ago training in puppies was commonly started at 6 months). You can train puppies some basics the moment they come home as early as 8-12 weeks (this varies among breeds). You will need to factor in the fact that at 3 months, your puppy has a very short attention span so you'll need to keep these session short and fun.

"Wait,"  (in the course it's "stay)," at this age should be very brief to set the pup for success, starting in areas with little distractions and very gradually working on areas with more distractions. Walks may be too overstimulating for now, but practicing "wait" very briefly near the home at the end of the walk may work better for now. You may need to lower our criteria initially when going outside (if she could wait for 4 seconds in the home, go back to 1-2 seconds outdoors) and you may need use higher-value treats to leave an impact. If she struggles still, set criteria even lower, baby steps in areas with minimal distraction. We  want to help her succeed because if we keep asking a cue with no response that leads to "learned irrelevance" which weakens our cue to the point of no longer eliciting a response. 

In regards to Loki's inability to settle alone on his own going from post wake up high energy to restless over excitement with little " under threshold" state of mind, this is rather common behavior in puppies of this age. Puppies are known to have very little impulse control. Like toddlers they are all for wanting instant gratification and they'll romp around and get several bouts of zoomies rushing around the home and engaging in wild play. 

I don't think you have reason to feel guilty. Dogs actually like routines as they find them reassuring since they know what comes next. The behavior you describe when left alone in the home sounds more like a management issue. When left alone, pups should be crated or kept in their exercise pen or small area of the home (with some safe toys) that has been puppy- proofed (like a small bathroom). Left to their own devices, given freedom around the home, pups will play with everything they find. It is only once they are older, when they have proven themselves of being entirely trustworthy that we can give them the freedom to be kept around the home.  

In general, the high level activities that you describe causing dogs to become addicted is the excessive Frisbee and fetching seen in dogs who become obsessed about the game (they live to have the ball or Frisbee thrown) or the every-day visits to dog parks and daycares which allow dogs to be stuck in prolonged moments of arousal and stress. It's more of a "too much of a good thing" affair and can impact dogs at an individual level. 

Even with these adrenaline pumping games, it is possible to add a touch of structure by incorporating some obedience into them and having dogs engage in the in moderation. For instance, with dogs who like to fetch, I like to ask for sit first before I toss the ball, and then when the game is over I like to say "game over!" as I put the ball away so to give a sense of closure. With dogs who are hyped up and struggle with the end of the game, I provide a brain game to cool down.

With walks, please check with your vet as young pups who haven't finished their vaccines are still vulnerable to infectious diseases. This may or may not be an issue based on your location and the areas you take your puppy to. 

How often should a puppy be trained? There are no general rules set in stone on how long and how often a puppy should be trained. It tends to vary on an individual basis. Just like us (think students who can sit in class concentrating on lessons while others are glancing out of the window daydreaming), some dogs can tolerate more training than others.

For instance, how is the pup's attention span? Is he easily bored? Nothing is worse for a puppy than a tedious training session that is boring or too difficult. With a puppy of 12 weeks, the attention span should not be too long, it would be therefore be important doing brief and easy sessions.

As a rough estimate, a young puppy may do well with 5 to 6 brief sessions a day lasting about 2-3 mins each session. The aim should be doing a total of about 10-15 minutes of training every day split into brief sessions spread throughout the day.  This would be a good place to start, making sure you end the session on a positive note and always when the pup is still interested. This builds a strong desire to learn.

Making the sessions fun will make them less likely to feel "intense" for both owner and puppy. As the puppy matures and the attention span sharpens, it is possible to do longer and longer sessions.

Consider that puppies can get bored easily and they have short attention spans so mixing up different behaviors can help them stay focused. You can  take advantage of your pup's energy levels and plan what to train accordingly. For instance, most puppies wake up with lots of energy or they may get the "zoomies" after finishing a meal. These are good times to take advantage of these energy bursts and train some fun recalls.

Then, as the puppy gets a bit tired, why not focus more on some stationary exercises such as sit, down and a brief stay? And how about some brain games? Once they are relaxed more, then you can resume with some more kinetic energy exercises such as polite leash walking. These exercises feature shifts in energy that are more in tune with a pups' activity levels and therefore can help maintain interest.

On top of training different behaviors, it's important to also train them with different people and locations. All family members should be involved and take turns asking for behaviors. While training should start in a quite room, it should progress to involve various rooms of the house and the yard and then outside the home.

Although basic obedience is important, with young pups under the age of 16 weeks, it's important to also focus on safe socialization. Puppy parties are an excellent way to introduce people of different ages to pups. Basic handling exercises are important too to teach the puppy to accept being touched for future grooming and vet visits. Use treats to create positive associations with being brushed, touched and having those paws handled. This is covered in the puppy section. 

Brain games are optimal ways to keep that busy mind occupied. Recently, more and more behavior experts are emphasizing the importance of keeping the mind busy than lots of exercise which increases endurance making dogs very fit and in need of more and more exercise. When dogs are engaged in brain games or are offered food puzzles, or when we allow them to sniff and explore on walks, we are engaging the dog's seeking system of the brain. This is vital to an their mental wellbeing as their bodies and minds were designed for seeking. 

Puppy needs a lot of sleep, usually 18 to 20 hours a day. Sometimes they can get overstimulated and struggle with falling asleep. Being overly tired makes them cranky and more likely to misbehave like bark and nip. Puppies need good quality, deep sleep (REM type) to restore their batteries, develop and retain what they have learned. We can help promote sleep by:

• Bringing the puppy to a quiet place where they usually sleep (crate, exercise pen). Remember though that puppies being very social, are always happiest being near you.
• Removing access to overly stimulating toys.
• Encouraging calming activities by offering snuffle mats, Licki-mats and food puzzles.
• Providing a chew toy or edible chew to gnaw on top of a mat/ dog bed (these can act as pacifiers).
• Talking to the puppy in a quiet, soothing tone of voice.
• Acting calm. This will help your puppy calm down too.
• Closing all curtains and blinds. 
• Turning lights off (or place a blanket over the crate).
• Providing a quiet area. If you get up often or walk around and your pup sees you this may wake him repeatedly up. 
• Playing calming music (like Through a Dog's Ear) so to cut down on any residual background noise.

Finally, consider that, from the day you bring your puppy home, your puppy will be constantly learning, and that includes both good behaviors and bad. If you keep your mind focused on this very important fact, you will be more likely to provide guidance so that your puppy will often make good choices.

Puppies are learning with every interaction so they are perpetually in "training." Play is training. Resting is training. Walking is training and even learning to be away from you is training.

Embracing all these life events as training opportunities is incredibly beneficial in helping a puppy develop into the dog of your dreams. Because let's face it: by encouraging  good behaviors from the get-go, we can avoid the hassle of fixing bad habits that worsen over time and become more and more challenging to overcome.

Hope this helps,

Happy training!

Best, 

Adrienne 

 

 

[FrederykBlot]

Thank you so much for much for your reply. It really detailed, constructive, and shows how much you care about the people of your method and the well-being of their dogs

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I have seen the picture of Loki. What an adorable fluffy puppy!

He is. He's giving me the hardest part of my life, with the sleep deprivation, and the anxiety of doing correct education, but looking at his face, I cannot not love him :)

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In regards to Loki's inability to settle alone on his own going from post wake up high energy to restless over excitement with little " under threshold" state of mind, this is rather common behavior in puppies of this age. Puppies are known to have very little impulse control. Like toddlers they are all for wanting instant gratification and they'll romp around and get several bouts of zoomies rushing around the home and engaging in wild play. 

I don't think you have reason to feel guilty. Dogs actually like routines as they find them reassuring since they know what comes next. The behavior you describe when left alone in the home sounds more like a management issue. When left alone, pups should be crated or kept in their exercise pen or small area of the home (with some safe toys) that has been puppy- proofed (like a small bathroom). Left to their own devices, given freedom around the home, pups will play with everything they find. It is only once they are older, when they have proven themselves of being entirely trustworthy that we can give them the freedom to be kept around the home.  

That's good to know. We can read so much information here and there, that do not go with all the details that it can be difficult for new owners to understand what is normal and what is not. We do have the crate, and crate training is going not that bad I would say. After walks, it's nap in the crate, or good night, and the whining is usually quite short (usually less than 5 min, worst case scenario is around 10 min if he has been crated while over tired and thus over excited). We did order a playpen. Have now to figure out how to make the best out of it, and how to train it well. I'll be glad to hear your advice about that, or if you have an article. I don't feel like setting up the playpen and toss him inside is the way to go :)

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With walks, please check with your vet as young pups who haven't finished their vaccines are still vulnerable to infectious diseases. This may or may not be an issue based on your location and the areas you take your puppy to. 

No problem on this side. Vet said the area is pretty safe, and dogs around are well taken care of. My concern was more about time of the walk as we read so much that bones are fragile, and pups shouldn't walk much... but the breeder said he's quite robust, and she chose one atheletic for us, as we presented doing quite some sport.

 

Our current time feels like there is so much to do : socialization, obedience, behavioral correction, physical stimulation, mental stimulation, walks, handling... 

As a new owner and non professional, it seems to me there is a very thin line between "keeping the training fun and interesting" as you mention, and doing a little too much. Specially with taking account different parameters : for example, after a 3h nap, he could go treasure hunting for quite some time, but after just 1h nap cut for potty, after 2 kibble he would sit and look at me like "what do you want from me, human ??". I guess a lot of it comes from experience, and learning to know your pup

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Puppies are learning with every interaction so they are perpetually in "training." Play is training. Resting is training. Walking is training and even learning to be away from you is training.

Embracing all these life events as training opportunities is incredibly beneficial in helping a puppy develop into the dog of your dreams. Because let's face it: by encouraging  good behaviors from the get-go, we can avoid the hassle of fixing bad habits that worsen over time and become more and more challenging to overcome.

That's words of wisdom :) we started to do that, by keeping treats around always from now, to be sure everything can become a lesson and be able to redirect / correct

 

Thank you again for your reply and your concern. As an anxious parent, having such guidance really gives me hope and help me to cope with harder moments

 

[Adrienne]

He's giving me the hardest part of my life, with the sleep deprivation, and the anxiety of doing correct education, but looking at his face, I cannot not love him 🙂

I hear you! Having a puppy is a lot like dealing with a baby who walks around with no diapers, mouths a lot (but with super sharp teeth!) and has moments of fussiness. The first weeks are very draining, both emotionally and physically from all the sleep deprivation, frequent outdoor trips, active supervision etc. However, things get better over time as you start noticing that you are no longer getting up as often at night and taking him out less during the day, your puppy is finding other activities more interesting and rewarding than constantly nipping, and he starts learning how good it feels to relax. That until.... the teenager stage pops up, but that's another story 😉

We do have the crate, and crate training is going not that bad I would say.

There's a section on crate training here in case you haven't seen it and it guides you though on how to make it pleasant place to be in. 
https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/video-archive/love-the-crate/

We did order a playpen. Have now to figure out how to make the best out of it, and how to train it well. I'll be glad to hear your advice about that, or if you have an article. I don't feel like setting up the playpen and toss him inside is the way to go 🙂

Exercise pens and play pens were specifically designed to provide a place of confinement, offering a middle ground between a crate and free access to a whole room. A play pen/exercise pen can help prevent destructiveness. Puppies will get into everything just like a toddler romping around the home and mom repeatedly yelling "don't touch that!"

A play pen or exercise pen therefore offers your puppy a designated area where he has the freedom to hang out and play without you constantly reminding him to "leave it" every single move he makes. It's a free space that is devoid of things that you don't want your puppy to chew on or that can be potentially harmful. 

It can be filled up with *safe* toys that your puppy can chew on and keep himself busy. Make sure though to rotate the toys to keep your pup's interest in them alive, and as always monitor as chew toys can be destroyed and there is no such thing as a 100 percent safe toy with puppies. Also, make sure to inspect them often for signs of wear and tear.

 Having a playpen or exercise pen can be a great sanity-saving option allowing you to finally enjoy a cup of coffee while it is still warm, make a quick phone call you have been postponing for long and just sit down for a bit to watch the news.  For extra peace of mind, consider using a baby monitor to supervise your puppy when you're in another room. This can allow you to check on your pup without disturbing/waking him up.

An exercise pen or play pen can also come handy for potty training purposes. It qualifies as a good option for "long-term confinement. In other words, it's a place where you can keep your puppy when you must briefly leave the home, but can't crate your puppy because you'll be out for longer than he can hold it. Of course, you can use a pen in such fashion as long as it's sturdy and your puppy cannot jump out, climb over or destroy it. 

The main advantage of the pen is therefore that it offers a longer term solution. Therefore, instead of coming home to a dirty puppy who has peed and pooped in his crate ad risks getting into a bad habit, your puppy has the option to remain clean and use a designated bathroom area in the pen. 
To set up a good long-term confinement area, you' ll need to create a space for sleep, play and eating/drinking and a space for going potty. So you would place on one side your puppy's open crate with a blanket inside, food bowl, water bowl and toys, and at the opposite side pee pads (if he doesn't destroy them) or a grass patch. 

Your puppy should be naturally drawn to use the pee pads or grass patch because puppies should have an instinct to not want soil near where they sleep, eat or play (denning instinct). Not all puppies have this instinct, but good breeders generally help inculcate it from an early age. Puppies from pet stores and puppy mill puppies lack such instinct making them more difficult to potty train.

Small pups may do fine with some types of play pens, but larger pups need sturdy exercise pens that they cannot push down or jump over.  X-pens that come with a cover would be important for the pups who want to escape. 

A big perk is that you can move your pen around depending on your need. For example, if you want to spend time outdoors with your puppy, but you don't want to give him the whole yard, you can take the pen outdoors and sit nearby. You can also take your pen with you when you are traveling so that your puppy has a familiar place to wind down. 

No problem on this side. Vet said the area is pretty safe, and dogs around are well taken care of. My concern was more about time of the walk as we read so much that bones are fragile, and pups shouldn't walk much... but the breeder said he's quite robust, and she chose one atheletic for us, as we presented doing quite some sport.

One of the main concern with exercise is damage to the pup's growth plates. Veterinarians advise not to jog/run/allow to jump pups until heir growth plates have closed (10- 18 months approx. but this varies a lot between breeds). Walks should be less of a concern, but it would be important monitoring how the pup does (is the puppy heavy panting? needs to stop and rest? getting thirsty? or is he still running around everywhere after the walk?) I would discuss this with your vet to play it safe. 

As a new owner and non professional, it seems to me there is a very thin line between "keeping the training fun and interesting" as you mention, and doing a little too much. Specially with taking account different parameters : for example, after a 3h nap, he could go treasure hunting for quite some time, but after just 1h nap cut for potty, after 2 kibble he would sit and look at me like "what do you want from me, human ??". I guess a lot of it comes from experience, and learning to know your pup.

Yes, it can be tricky at times figuring out when to stop. Doing several brief sessions scattered throughout the day helps. Naps in between are helpful as they help retain what has been learned. Every pup is different. Some pups are very eager to train and focused and they can take a little more than a pup who is easily distracted and slack.

Thank you again for your reply and your concern. As an anxious parent, having such guidance really gives me hope and help me to cope with harder moments

You are very welcome! You are a very dedicated pup parent and Loki is very fortunate to have you!

 

[FrederykBlot]

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There's a section on crate training here in case you haven't seen it and it guides you though on how to make it pleasant place to be in. 
https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/video-archive/love-the-crate/

Thanks for the link. That helped, and I was glad to see it concurred with things we already do like putting some random high value treats in the crate when he doesn't see, or never use crate as punishment...
For us, the place is not the default "parking place" as it's written in your article. It's really just the sleeping place, that's why we got an X-pen. 
He doesn't any toy or chew in it. It's open during the day if he want to go there by himself to nap (which he never does, unless he sees me with treats, as he knows I offer treats when he's inside). And we enforce naps and bedtime there each time after walking, which is always the end of the "awake session". We feel it tires him out, without overstimulation and crankiness he can have after big session of physical play (like fetch and tug...), and he usually settle fast after that (little FOMO whining I guess, but rarely more than a few minutes)

Do you think we should put stuff in it, like chew toys ? We're afraid he wouldn't sleep in it then and just chew.

And also is it ok to have this rigid organization : training / games then walk then nap / sleep in crate ? Or should we vary ?

I was wondering also if I should open at specific times. For now, we wait until he whines after at least 1h-1h30 of nap. As he's usually awake 2 hours by session, we want to ensure he has a sufficient time of nap. But sometimes, he can go almost 3 hours without whining, and I'm afraid in that case he  is not sleeping, but just lying down there doing nothing, and that can be a not so positive experience for him. We have a monitoring camera, we see if he moves but during the day we can't be sure if he sleeps, as it's too bright (even with the curtains closed) to get the infrared mode that shows the open eyes (we have this at night though).

 

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Walks should be less of a concern, but it would be important monitoring how the pup does (is the puppy heavy panting? needs to stop and rest? getting thirsty? or is he still running around everywhere after the walk?

We usually play the safe card in terms of behavior and distance. I mean we avoid going more than 2 blocks, that would be around 0.5 and 0.7 miles, and we let him set the pace. If he sits, we wait, if there is an interesting area, we do not move and he can explore around as he is on long leash. Usually after the walk he's quite tired and lie down quick when we arrive home. He may have some zoomies sometimes, but I figured out it usually happens when we see other dogs and many people. He get really excited but we can't let him fully play with them as he's very energetic, and owners are not always ok with that, as there are mainly older dogs in our area, and they are waaaaayyyyy less energetic than our little Loki :D :D 

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You are very welcome! You are a very dedicated pup parent and Loki is very fortunate to have you!

Thank you so much for that. Those kind of words are so nice to hear, and gives me strength and hope. I'm the kind that focus way more of what I did wrong, and what I should do better, but never on what I give and what I do well when that arrives, like the positive part is normal and granted, and only the negative should be looked at. I guess I'll have to work on that too :D :D

[Adrienne]

Do you think we should put stuff in it, like chew toys ? We're afraid he wouldn't sleep in it then and just chew.

If your pup struggle to settle when crated, the chew can help keep him occupied and help him relax which can help in falling asleep afterward. Licking and chewing activities are known for releasing endorphins. Actually, chewing activities have been known to increase serotonin and endorphin levels in the dog's brain, as these high serotonin and endorphin levels in reduce the production of of adrenalin and stress hormones. On top of this, chewing can help a dog vent his frustration, providing an outlet. This explains why dogs who are frustrated or stressed are so intent into chewing. They are getting relief and redirecting their feelings of frustration.

It doesn't hurt to try and see how it goes. Does he chew and then relax and fall asleep? Great! Does he chew on it and play with it for some time before falling asleep? That's also good as long as he's in a relaxed state and not getting hyper but just keeps chewing in a relaxing way. Does he chew on it and then proceeds to  playing with it in a hyper way or starts whining to be let out? Then it may be too overstimulating for him, but I would also evaluate other things before thinking it's necessarily the toy (too much light, too much noise, toy is too new and entertaining). 

 Perhaps you won't need it when you crate him after the walk since it sounds like he's pretty much worn out to fall quickly asleep, but it may help for those times when he's whining after being closed. An edible chew may work even better. I like to use Kong toys with some kibble and a little peanut butter (ensuring it's not a sugar-free version that has the toxic xylitol). This helps maintain strong positive associations with the crate. When the crate is open, I like to place some toys in there as well and see if they can help pups "crate themselves" on their own, chewing and relaxing. Letting them find an occasional kibble in there every now and then can also help create positive associations and pave the path for crate visits.

And also is it ok to have this rigid organization : training / games then walk then nap / sleep in crate ? Or should we vary ?

I think dogs do better with routines. Indeed, I like to have feeding schedules, potty schedules and walk schedules. If the pup has gotten adjusted to your schedule, I would stick to it, "if it's not broken why fix it?" Of course, it's a different story if somebody is at home now and will need to go to work or we expect a major change, in which case it would be important gradually getting them used to the new schedule. 

I was wondering also if I should open at specific times. For now, we wait until he whines after at least 1h-1h30 of nap. As he's usually awake 2 hours by session, we want to ensure he has a sufficient time of nap. But sometimes, he can go almost 3 hours without whining, and I'm afraid in that case he  is not sleeping, but just lying down there doing nothing, and that can be a not so positive experience for him. We have a monitoring camera, we see if he moves but during the day we can't be sure if he sleeps, as it's too bright (even with the curtains closed) to get the infrared mode that shows the open eyes (we have this at night though).

Most likely, after the nap he is whining to be let out and go potty so that's good. You can eventually train him to sit (once he knows sit well) before you open the crate, just to train some impulse control. I like to have polite pups sit for their meals, sit when the collar is put on, sit before a door is opened. 

If he is just lying there doing nothing and he's not vocalizing, it can be he's just enjoying being in a relaxed state which is OK. Leaving him with a chew toy that is safe can help him do something while he waits to be opened. 

Thank you so much for that. Those kind of words are so nice to hear, and gives me strength and hope. I'm the kind that focus way more of what I did wrong, and what I should do better, but never on what I give and what I do well when that arrives, like the positive part is normal and granted, and only the negative should be looked at. I guess I'll have to work on that too 😄 😄

Yes, just as we praise/reward our pups for little steps of progress, we need to remember to pat ourselves on our backs too!

[FrederykBlot]

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And also is it ok to have this rigid organization : training / games then walk then nap / sleep in crate ? Or should we vary ?

I think dogs do better with routines. Indeed, I like to have feeding schedules, potty schedules and walk schedules. If the pup has gotten adjusted to your schedule, I would stick to it, "if it's not broken why fix it?" Of course, it's a different story if somebody is at home now and will need to go to work or we expect a major change, in which case it would be important gradually getting them used to the new schedule. 

 

I'm sorry, this one is maybe me being over anxious, or paranoid, but the schedule today was nighttime 22pm => 6am
6am => 8am was the normal schedule : potty + little alone time outside in the yard. Then breakfast, then some physical games in the yard, little mental game to cool him down (target + treasure hunt), and finally walk from 7:30am to 8:00am (was in the crate at 8:00, 8am was not just the return of the walk)

He slept until 12:30
I'm feeling a bit bad because I'm not sure if a 4h30 nap is ok or not.
He woke up in the crate (I have monitoring camera) when I got downstairs to cook for lunch, but if I didn't, he may have gone for even longer I'm quite sure.
After waking up, he didn't feel lethargic or anything : we played (physical and mental), made some playpen training (gave him a chicken leg inside and went in and out)

I know you said "if it's not broken, why fix it"
But everything I read about puppies nap are from 30 min to 2h... 
I'm even starting to wonder if he's not depressing in the crate (I may make him think as a human here)
Also if our awake schedule is too much... On the other end, I see no worrying elements during the awake part... not much zoomies, or crankiness, quite energetic, not lethargic at all...

 

I know it feels like I'm worrying about nothing, but is it normal for a 3+1/2 yo pup to make a few big +4hours naps instead of several 1-2 hours ?
Should I reduce the awake part to adjust ?
Or just stick to my schedule as it seems to work, and just leave him alone sleeping, as it's all normal even if naps are over 4 hours, and work on myself instead :)

[Adrienne]

But everything I read about puppies nap are from 30 min to 2h.

There isn't necessarily a specific guide for length of sleep in puppies, every puppy is a little different. 

If he is sleeping throughout the night well, I would continue to let him sleep for as long as he needs during the day. However, if he is waking up in the middle of the night with tons of energy, it may be of benefit to wake him up after 2 hours during the day so he is more sleepy for nighttime. 

 I know it feels like I'm worrying about nothing, but is it normal for a 3+1/2 yo pup to make a few big +4hours naps instead of several 1-2 hours ?
Should I reduce the awake part to adjust?

I would let him sleep. It could be he’s going through a growth stage, and they'll start losing their baby teeth as well around this time. You may find a few here and there. I found one once in a pup's water bowl. 

[FrederykBlot]

Thanks for the answer, that helped.

I may be thinking also, maybe when waking up at 5-6am, perhaps the night is not totally finished. He got to potty right out of the crate. One time I tried to crate him back just after, but it was major tantrum, so I concluded his level of energy said "I don't think so, I'm fully woken up" , and then we have a full morning session (breakfast+ physical+mental+obedience+walk spanned on 2 hours total). The nap then is usually big and I start to think it can be an extension of the night.

 

Yesterday, he did 5:30am to 7:30 with full morning session. Nap in the crate until 9:00, imho interrupted by a potty. We went on a new session. This one was a bit longer, but I guess a little less filled as I also had to work at some point. Nap was from 11:30 to 16:15... I started to worry but followed your advice and let him sleep. 

While awake, no worrying sign. Was playful and bitey as always 😂. I would thought the following session would have been intense after such a long nap, but after physical ans little obedience, he got an edible chew and actually settle at our feet. That kinda confirmed me you were spot on, and he really has a big need of sleep, even if he's always trying to prove the contrary.

 

Little question : as I explained in our schedule we enforce naps in crate, otherwise he would wanders around, doing everything he's not supposed to, while his body language screams "I m soooo tired..." Is it ok about crating time ? I read that a puppy shouldn't be crated too long (like one hour per month of age+ 1) but for me, it was for "awake crating". Even if I cannot be sure he's asleep when he's in, crate is the place to sleep, no to be in when we need him confined. We have the pen for that and currently training him about that.

 

Thank for the help

[Adrienne]

I may be thinking also, maybe when waking up at 5-6am, perhaps the night is not totally finished. He got to potty right out of the crate. One time I tried to crate him back just after, but it was major tantrum, so I concluded his level of energy said "I don't think so, I'm fully woken up" , 

Most pups I fostered/ trained were this way. They are early morning risers, once they are taken out to potty early, once that light impinges on those specialized cells in their retinas,  their brains are informed that it's time to embrace the day. I found it easier adjusting to their schedule rather then putting them back in the crate with risks of them protesting. This was for the most part temporary, a few weeks later they were able to hold it for longer and longer and we could enjoy the luxury of getting up at 8 am. After getting up at 5:30 they would then crash mid-morning. 

Nap was from 11:30 to 16:15... I started to worry but followed your advice and let him sleep.  While awake, no worrying sign. Was playful and bitey as always 😂. I would thought the following session would have been intense after such a long nap, but after physical ans little obedience, he got an edible chew and actually settle at our feet. That kinda confirmed me you were spot on, and he really has a big need of sleep, even if he's always trying to prove the contrary.

That's a long nap! As long as he's healthy and happy I wouldn't be concerned. It does sound like he may be making up for the lost sleep if he's getting up so early. Also, count in if he takes long to fall asleep. Of course, check how he does the rest of the day and whether he sleeps well at night and judge accordingly. 

Little question : as I explained in our schedule we enforce naps in crate, otherwise he would wanders around, doing everything he's not supposed to, while his body language screams "I m soooo tired..." Is it ok about crating time ? I read that a puppy shouldn't be crated too long (like one hour per month of age+ 1) but for me, it was for "awake crating". Even if I cannot be sure he's asleep when he's in, crate is the place to sleep, no to be in when we need him confined. We have the pen for that and currently training him about that.

It sounds like you are trying to enforce a good routine which is reassuring and important for dogs. Yes, we want to crate them when they're getting overstimulated/cranky and provide a quiet setting that will help them sleep. A Kong or Toppls (easier for puppies to access) can help in this case to ensure the crate stays pleasant. You can even attach a cue to going to take a nap, such as saying' nappy time' as you crate your pup and give him chew. With time, your puppy may follow you and even crate himself on his own to receive his chew.

Chewing can help the pup self-sooth and is sleep-inducing. Sort of like a pacifier. When your pup  wakes up and you are not around to take him out he can resume chewing if he feels like it, rather than just starting around. Since he's so young,  it would be important taking him out  right away when you notice he's awake for a potty break. 

As for as how long to crate, if your puppy is crated for 8 hours at night, it would say it would be OK to do about 2-4 hours in the crate twice or trice a day (based on how much he naps) and then do the play pen/walks/social times with you for the awake times. There are really no rules written in stone for this, as every pup is different. They go through occasional growth spurts and do most of their growing in their sleep.

[FrederykBlot]

8am... I'm dreaming of it 🙂

Good to know that early + mid morning crash is a fairly common thing.

Also good to know than crating for naps is ok, even if it's long naps. It's really for night, naps, and only sleep. We have this little ritual after the walk : we put him in the crate (he does not go by himself for now), close it, he usually lies directly on the bed as he's worn off after the walk usually, then we close the curtain and say "Bonne sieste Loki" ("good nap" in French) or "Bonne nuit Loki" (good night) for bedtime. He whines a few seconds just like saying "you know i would prefer to be with you right" but would settle in few minutes tops.

 

Thank you again. I find one of the major thing that make your answers so precious to me and my wife (I mean besides the quality content) is that it  balance what is out there, with real life experience, and real life expectancies. It helps welcoming acceptance, and kill the perfectionism that leads to anxiety. Thanks to you I'm enjoying more and more my little buddy instead of focusing of "doing what is supposed to be right"

[Adrienne]

You are very welcome!

I understand perfectly. Loki is very fortunate to have such dedicated and caring 'pet parents'! 

I am always here for any questions or concerns. 

Keep me posted.

Best,

Adrienne 

[FrederykBlot]

Hello

 

Wanted to share this one and have little remarks / questions on it :

- I like his stay ("attends in French") and go, specially as this game is high value to him

- he goes with paw. is it ok because he thinks and finds a solution ? or it defies the purpose of the game, and prevent good preparation for the "tidy up" game ?

- should I try to make him go with the mouth ? If yes, how ? he has a solution that works, I'm not sure he'd like to bother with finding something else :D :D

- I started to use that as an alternative to the Kong when I want to feed him and as he doesn't take from the bowl much now

Kind regards

 

 

 

[Adrienne]

Awww... I love how he waits so patiently! What a good pup! And so cute! I am sure he got lots of compliments in class. I think getting pups to think and find solutions is good.  

 

I suspect the issue here is that the first ball is a little too slippery, add to that some saliva, and it becomes slippery and slimy. Indeed, he then grabs the other ball with his mouth better since it has more texture and 'grip". Swapping to another type of ball may help get you more mouth grabs over pawing if you prefer those.  

 

I think it's good for dogs to learn to use both their mouths and paws. Mouth use is good for games like grabbing a toy on cue, fetch, the tidy up game, paw use is good for targets, closing doors, getting toys from under cabinets, etc. etc. 

[FrederykBlot]

Hi

 

This message is me don't want to be this guy that only post when he has a need, a problem or a question 😂😂

 

Put this here as it was just about training

 

My girlfriend sewed a snuffle mat for Loki using an old couch protector

It's a bit messy, but he seems to enjoy the sniff

He can't always get all of them but still have most

 

https://youtu.be/ROS-292imZk

 

[Adrienne]

That's so nice that your girlfriend made a snuffle mat for Loki! 

I love how he attends nicely and sits and then goes when you tell him. 

Nice job!

[FrederykBlot]

As today is celebration day, some more updates on the progress that are causes for joy

 

- his wait is getting better and better, in duration, distance, and environment (we're outside where things are going + muffin game is likely his favorite...)

 

- recalls, and specially recalls when free... that gives us even more trust to let him loose to enjoy

 

 

I swear it's not bragging, but just a sharing of joy :D :D

 

[FrederykBlot]

(btw, posting in this thread, that I started 19th of May, just made me realized it has just been one month ++, and so much have been going on...

from worst of puppy blues, to first benefits of training, to setbacks and difficult experience like the electric shock, and some moments of true blessing like the first big recalls untied, or the first "drop it" on my clothes when excited, to me being alone with him wondering if I will meltdown...)

 

It is my most intense life experience I have to admit, and the more it goes, the better it gets

And what has been accomplished in just a month, (which seemd waayyyyyyyyy longer hahahah), on both me and Loki, is just a tiny glimpse of our lives together

and future looks bright...

 

I guess it's sharing day today hahaha

[Adrienne]

Loki is doing super well in the great outdoors where there are many distractions and he is very attentive. The recall is also very joyful and the type I strive for. This is great for just a month of training and Loki is still so young!

Raising a puppy and watching him learn and grow is an amazing experience. It's lots of work especially the first months, but things tend to get better. Watching them bloom and reaping the rewards is the best part. 

 

 

[FrederykBlot]

Hi

 

No question here 🙂

just a little sharing : we try to implement the carpet game but with a towel as I have no carpet 🙂

I like the Come+stay+go which starting to be real good at home 🙂

 

https://youtu.be/l2LWN2c0r3w

[JMFS]

Oh my goodness!  What a good boy!  Esther would have come crashing through the door and we would be working on sit several times, lol.  He's more on Gertie's level for demeanor.  Such an adorable poof!  Beautiful work.  🥰

[FrederykBlot]

Please share in video ! I smiled while reading, I think I'll really enjoy seeing it live :)

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Love it!