How long and frequency of new training?

[jprkdr]

We adopted a 7 year old spaniel mix from Humane Society who does not know basic commands.  We have started training to sit.  How long should each session last and how many times daily should we engage in the training ?  How long in duration ( days, weeks, months) should we expect for Henry to know to sit on command?

[Adrienne]

Hello and welcome to the forums,

When it comes to training, there are ultimately no exact general rules of thumb when it comes to how long to train per session and how many sessions to do a day. There are many variables at play such as the age of the dogs, breed, energy levels, health, level of attentiveness, the experience of the person training, current mindset of the dog, whether the dog was ever trained before etc.

Since your dog is 7 and hasn't received any training yet, it's best to start with several brief sessions and keeping an eye out for signs of tiring. You can start with just 3-5 minutes of training and watch for signs of frustration, stress or tiring under the form of yawning, a sudden itch, walking away, loss of interest etc. You want to avoid though getting to this point. So to play it safe, best to keep sessions short and sweet at first, always ending on a positive note.

As for quantity, there are variables too. After testing the waters with a few brief sessions, you can eventually progress and try and fit several in a day without the dogs getting bored or uninterested. Some of my busy clients like to use television commercial breaks for training. You may find that you can train more and longer on some days, while some days less. Just like us, dog may have more productive days than others.

Since at 7 he is likely now a senior, make sure he looks happy and eager to train and watch for signs of pain/tiring when asking for sits and downs and recalls in case he has joint pain. 

Generally, a dog should learn to sit on command (using only the verbal cue "sit") within a couple of weeks, but every dog is different. We also need to factor in the fact that when we ask a sit indoors it's one thing, and when we ask for a sit in another setting like outside around distractions, it's another thing. Dogs aren't that great in generalizing the training done indoors to areas with distractions, so it helps to go gradual when increasing criteria and using higher value treats outdoors can help compete with the distractions.  

Hope this helps!

Let me know if you have any other questions,

Happy training!

 

[RuthMccollum]

I am interested in this topic as well.  I'm wondering if there is a typical training schedule that works best; for example, 15 minute sessions three times per day?

[Adrienne]

Hello and welcome the forums,

If your dog is new to the whole concept of training, I feel that starting with shorter sessions is best and then we can always gradually increase based on how he/she does

How old is your dog? What breed? Has he/she been ever trained before?

[RuthMccollum]

Hi Adrienne. My dog is a four and a half month old miniature schnauzer.  We went to puppy preschool which was only two sessions but he has learned commands like sit, leave it, drop it, down, but not consistantly.  (does best inside my appartment. The biggest challenge is the heel command.  Bruno often lays on the ground refusing to walk, or cries and barks because he wants to play with every dog.  I bring lots of treats and some days are better than others.  Walking is important exercise for me so I can't work on correcting him the whole way.  It would be too much for both of us.  I've read that we shouldn't walk our dogs until they have learned to heel, but I live along, so need to take him with me.  I have a harness for him that attaches in two places and has made things easier, but I do need to lift him and pull him along sometimes. 

 

[Adrienne]

Hi Adrienne. My dog is a four and a half month old miniature schnauzer.  The biggest challenge is the heel command.  Bruno often lays on the ground refusing to walk

Young puppies do best with short training sessions. I like to do about 5 minute sessions scattered throughout the day rather than risk with a longer session that the pup may perceive as too long or tedious. Always make training fun and upbeat and end it on a positive note. 

With a puppy who lays on the ground refusing the walk, a variety of things come to mind. I will be listing some possibilities here:

-The walk is too long. Puppies need less exercise compared to fully grown dogs. They tend to sleep a lot during the day because they are doing a lot of growing. Puppies who are smaller and have shorter legs need less exercise in general than taller, larger dogs. Puppies also have short attention spans and may struggle being trained to walk for too long. 

-The weather is too warm. Puppies also don't tolerate the heat as much as an adult dog so it can be a bit harder on them. It would be important to bring along water in a collapsible dog bowl just in case the puppy gets thirsty. Also, consider whether the pavement may be too hot. 

-Not being used to wearing the collar/harness and leash. Many young puppies stop on walks because they aren't used to wearing a collar or being on leash. Getting puppies used to wearing a collar/harness and leash is a gradual process that may encompass several days/weeks. 

-Being frightened about something. Does Bruno stop walking once he's past the driveway? Does he walk well in other areas but struggles in your neighborhood? If so, he may have become frightened about something. Perhaps it's a dog that is barking as he's walking by a property or maybe the trash truck driving by or any scary construction going on could have left an impact if that's the case. 

-Reluctant to leave the home-base.  On top of this, consider that young puppies may feel uneasy leaving the home. In nature, young pups wouldn't walk too far from their maternity dens until they are a little bit older. Going too far may feel unsettling so it may help to start with brief walks in familiar surroundings and as he gains more confidence moving to farther areas. 

With these things in mind, here are a few ideas/tips.

-Rule out medical conditions. Make sure your puppy is healthy considering that an underlying medical condition can surely put a dent in a puppy's willingness to go on walks. For example, a puppy with joint problems may be reluctant to want to go on walks. Puppies with heart problems may tire easily and struggle to keep up. 

-Avoid hot temperatures. As mentioned, puppies tend to be less tolerant of heat and they may need to drink often. Bring along water during walks and try your best to avoid the warmest hours of the day. 

-Make sure your puppy is used to wearing the harness. Get him used to wearing it and walking with it on by making it super fun when he wears it, praise, feed something tasty, give him attention. And when you take it off, make life get boring again. 

-Teach to give in to leash pressure. Teaching your puppy to give in to leash pressure is easy. Simply sit on the couch holding the leash and very lightly put pressure/gently tug and lure your puppy to move in your direction by showing a treat to encourage him to release the pressure. Praise your puppy the moment he gives in to the pressure and moves your way. 

-Practice in the home/ driveway. Do the same exercise with you and your puppy walking in a hallway. Put a little pressure into the leash and then feed kibble  so he can learn that moving in the direction of the pressure releases that pressure and he also gets rewarding for that by reaching for the kibble. Do this several times until he learns to give into leash pressure rather than resisting it. Then practice walking up and down the driveway rewarding you pup for giving in to the pressure before going on brief, fun walks. 

-Start with short walks. In order to gauge exactly how puppies fare with walks, start them out on something completely manageable. You don’t want to crush their enthusiasm right off the bat with a long, tiring walk. Make the walk fun and upbeat and reward your puppy for being close to you. 

-Bring along a doggy friend. Do you have a friend with a puppy or dog who literally adores going on walks? If so, enlisting these dogs' help can be sometimes far more effective than us trying a variety of things.

-Avoid dragging and picking up. Dragging a puppy by the leash or getting irritated/impatient with the puppy for lagging behind or lying down only makes matters worse. The puppy risks not associating the walks with fun and may dread going on them. A dog's opposition reflex will make the dog resist more and dogs may eventually just give up moving and respond by stopping and possibly even lying down.  On top of this, consider that if we get angry or frustrated with our puppies, this can impact them at an emotional level causing them to freeze into a state of learned helplessness. 

Picking the puppy up also leads to another problem. The puppy learns to stop walking to be picked up and this can put a dent in teaching him to walk on leash as he'll likely want to be picked up more and more. This should therefore be used only when strictly necessary. 

*If your puppy hasn't finished his vaccinations yet, please check with your vet whether it's safe for him to walk in certain areas if they are often frequented by other dogs due to the risks for infectious diseases which can be rampant in certain areas. 

cries and barks because he wants to play with every dog.  I bring lots of treats and some days are better than others.  

This sounds like barrier frustration, more on this here:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/barrier-frustration/

I like to teach a strong response to a smacking sound combined with just a couple of steps of attention heeling as it adds some movement and gives a pup something else to do:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/the-airplane-game/the-smacking-sound/

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/obedience-101/heeling-attention-heeling/

It helps if you work with your puppy under threshold, by creating some distance from the other dogs:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/threshold-levels/

I hope this helps,

Happy training!

Best,

Adrienne 

[RuthMccollum]

Thank you for taking the time to give me such detailed feedback.   It sounds like I need to scale back the walking we are doing.  Energy is not the problem.  He will play fetch quite happily without seeming to want to stop.  He and his "cousin", my daughter's dog, run around their yard tirelessly.  Bruno has had all of his shots and the Vet didn't seem to notice any health issues.  I think that maybe it's me that needs more self discipline and patience.  I do make sure not to let Bruno know that I am frustrated and reward him every time he responds to my Let's go.  I live in a condo, and the trail in front is very busy and popular because it is on the ocean.  Maybe as quiet spot would be better. Thanks for your brain training4dogs suggestions. I'll let you know how we do with them.  I never thought I would be a single Mom at 67 years old.  It's a challenge for sure!  Oh, and you are right. When I walk Buno and Lucy it is all fun, fun fun.

 

 

 

 

[Adrienne]

You are very welcome, I tried to cover most basis, I know some may not specifically apply to your pup, but always worth mentioning if others are reading and dealing with a similar issue.

Your trail by the ocean sounds beautiful! It's good for him see many people and dogs, it's just  important to ensure he's not too overwhelmed. Watch his body language, if looks happy he's doing fine, if he seems confused, shut down, or you notice signs of stress, it may too much for him. Here are signs of stress:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/signs-fear-stress-dogs/

I think going on walks with your daughter's dog may help if your daughter's dog is confident and social on walks. If Bruno for some reason lies down and refuses to move during the walk, your daughter can stop walking and start loving on her own dog praising and happy talking, which may act as an incentive for Bruno encouraging him to join in the fun. As he resumes walking, you can make your smacking sound and reward for a few steps of him looking up at you. . 

Puppies are a lot of work! It's for real like having a new baby in the home! You're then stuck with a toddler-like stage and then comes the lovely teenager stage. Training (and brain games) though helps make things much more manageable and bearable. As dogs mature, you then get the biggest payback for all the effort. 

 

[RuthMccollum]

Thanks so much for your feed back Adrienne.  My biggest fear is instilling bad habits because I'm not training properly.

[FrederykBlot]

Hello,

If that may help, here is the part of my experience : 

I had quite the same issue : I was wondering what is the good amount, because I was reading that we have so stimulate our puppy, but not too much because they quickly loose focus... So I started to check and an ideal schedule like "15 min physical, 15 min mental, potty, walk, nap, rinse, repeat"

with other information like "a walk should be 5 min per month of age", "training should be divided in session of 3 minutes max, 5-6 times a day"

 

And ended up with the worst experience I shared in the puppy blues topic, because it didn't match with what I read / saw / look on video
He ended being overstimulated because it was too much to tug and fetch for the time

 

I was afraid because one day he took a 4 hours nap, while I heard a session should be "1 hour awake, 2 hours nap"
I've made the vet laugh when asking him about that being more anxious than ever... his answer : "there could be a million causes : he's too hot to play, he has a growth pikes, teething pikes... if he plays with you while awake, still eats, bites you, he's good..."
I even asked here just to have Adrienne reply "it's a baby, just let him sleep" :) :)

 

 

The real thing is that any pup is different, will evolve differently, and once I accepted that, and learned to read the signs on my pup, everything went better
He has a 2 hour session following by 3-4 hour nap in the morning
In the afternoon, he just wanders around sleepy because it's starting to get a bit hot... I try to catch few minutes here and there to make some basics
starting 5pm, he begins his day, and this time it's a 2 hour awake session, with a 1h 1,5h nap during which we take dinner, and then last session before bedtime

I'm not sure it's a recommanded, or convential schedule, but it appears to work for us and Loki. I feel less anxious, and time we spend together are really more quality time, instead of just trying to do "what is needed, and what should be done". We just enjoy together

 

 

About training and consistency, Adrienne has so much quality content I'm not even sure another source is needed

One thing though : nobody in mainstream article tells you how much it is long, and how much patience you need, and how much to repeat, rinse, repeat...
They all try to sell the "quick magic method that works so fast"

Personal case : we trained "leave it" so much, again and again at home, and he still took everything he wants during walks... but still, we continued, again, and again, and again... and one day during a walk we said "leave it" on pile of horse poop (high value to him), he looked at us, cross over without touching... my gf and I looked at each other, I thought we were gonna cry in joy !

It's become easier as you understand that it really takes time... It's not us owners that doing badly (given we make the effort to make it right), it's just long and it's normal

Training definitely does not give short term satisfaction. Don't get me wrong, a good session is always nice to have, but the biggest reward comes after time and dedication, when he managed to do something you struggled on, and though was so hard

 

 

So I'm pretty sure that with the caring you show (just being here on this forum is almost some kind of proof of willingness to do good), he will end up really well behaved 

 

[RuthMccollum]

Thank you so much for your feed back FredeykBlot.  I feel reassured and grateful for the reminder to be patient and just commit to putting in the time to repeat,repeat.