Car - training

[FrederykBlot]

I'm opening this thread about a subject that didn't seem critical to us, but that can be a little annoying

 

Our pup is really afraid in the car

We have a transportable crate that we put on the back seat

 

When we got him, we went on a several days road trip, because the breeder was very far. He usually whines and cries at the beginning, but settles once in the highway. I figured it would be the acceleration and turns that bothered him, but long straight lines were ok

During this road trip, we used this crate also as his sleeping crate in people house while on the road, and he seems kinda ok with that

 

Lately (that means several weeks after we finally settled at home), we used the car for vet appointment, or other obligations, and didn't make much training of it. Vomiting in the car started, and it seems anxiety spiked. We had whining and crying almost for every trip the whole time

 

We try to start from the beginning : 

- put him in the car, start the engine, engine off, that's it. Rinse and repeat

- then put him in the car, start the engine, advance a little, back a little, rinse and repeat

- then a few minutes trip...

 

Little progress at some point, but not much on bigger trip. For example, today was vet appointment. Longer trip + heat ==> vomit in the car

 

We cleaned the crate, and tried some crate training on this specific crate outside of the car, and bad thing is that he seems afraid of this crate now. He does not go full in. We tossed treats in it, just put 2 paws, took the treats, and went out

 

From this story, how do you think we should proceed ? 

- start to reengage trust in the crate with training outside of the car ?

- force car training with the crate inside: with no ignition first, then ignition and no move, then little moves, then longer moves

- or car tolerance comes with age ? I may have read that internal ear builds with age, so they support cars way better with age

 

We have really nice place around to go to. Now, we are forcing it, and have a pup that whine until we get at destination... but we would be happier if he would enjoy the car a little

 

[Adrienne]

Our pup is really afraid in the car. We have a transportable crate that we put on the back seat. When we got him, we went on a several days road trip, because the breeder was very far. He usually whines and cries at the beginning, but settles once in the highway. I figured it would be the acceleration and turns that bothered him, but long straight lines were ok. During this road trip, we used this crate also as his sleeping crate in people house while on the road, and he seems kinda ok with that.

Yes, those accelerations, the braking and turns can be very unsettling. The fact he does well when you are on the highway suggests he struggles with all those movements and there are chances he suffers from motion sickness. 

Lately (that means several weeks after we finally settled at home), we used the car for vet appointment, or other obligations, and didn't make much training of it. Vomiting in the car started, and it seems anxiety spiked. We had whining and crying almost for every trip the whole time.

Yes, this heightens the chance for it being mostly motion sickness. It's very easy for dogs to get anxious when they have nausea, and then, next thing you know, car rides and nausea associations are made creating a vicious cycle.  

We try to start from the beginning : 

- put him in the car, start the engine, engine off, that's it. Rinse and repeat

- then put him in the car, start the engine, advance a little, back a little, rinse and repeat

- then a few minutes trip...

Little progress at some point, but not much on bigger trip. For example, today was vet appointment. Longer trip + heat ==> vomit in the car

We cleaned the crate, and tried some crate training on this specific crate outside of the car, and bad thing is that he seems afraid of this crate now. He does not go full in. We tossed treats in it, just put 2 paws, took the treats, and went out. 

Your are on the right path with the baby steps, but it would take time to build up to the level of going on a longer trip. It sounds like he has started associating this crate with the nausea. 

From this story, how do you think we should proceed ? 

- start to reengage trust in the crate with training outside of the car ?

- force car training with the crate inside: with no ignition first, then ignition and no move, then little moves, then longer moves

- or car tolerance comes with age ? I may have read that internal ear builds with age, so they support cars way better with age

We have really nice place around to go to. Now, we are forcing it, and have a pup that whine until we get at destination... but we would be happier if he would enjoy the car a little.

Often, rather than suffering primarily from anxiety, dogs get anxious in cars  and travel crates secondary to car sickness. Often car sickness and motion sickness go hand in hand, leading to a chicken-or-the-egg dilemma (dogs can even have a combination of both!), but often behind a case of car phobia is a case of car sickness acting as the leading culprit.

Dogs are naturally prone to car sickness because their sense of balance in their brain is much better than ours so they become particularly susceptible to the motion of cars. Puppies are particularly predisposed to car sickness, and many luckily outgrow it with help, but not all dogs outgrow it as they mature. 

Dogs prone to car sickness tend to whine, salivate excessively, lick their lips, yawn and drool. They may also pace, pant, shake, and swallow often, and some even manage to vomit. 

What makes things particularly challenging though is the fact that dogs who are primarily anxious, also tend to drool, pant, shake, whine and pace when stressed, so often, it is not possible to entirely distinguish one case from the other.  In general though, dogs who are motion sick tend to feel better once the car stops moving although it may take a little bit of time to feel better. The fact Loki feels better in the highway, seems to be suggestive of motion sickness. 

With motion sickness, you can work a whole lot of creating positive associations with the car, but if the nausea persists, you are stuck in a vicious pattern, because all it takes is for nausea to set in and all your progress to be lost. So I think it's important to tackle the root cause, especially for the longer trips. 

Here are some general tips for motion sickness:

-Avoid feeding your dog at least a couple of hours prior to the car trip. Vomiting is more likely to happen when your dog travels on a full stomach.

-Motion-sick dogs may benefit from breathing some fresh air. Keep a window lightly cracked open, enough to allow some air in but without allowing your dog to stick his head out. 

-Schedule frequent stops to help your dog feel better and avoid roads with too many bumps and curves. Make sure to take corners slowly and accelerate smoothly.

-Gradually desensitize to car movements and create positive associations with the car.  

-Motion sick dogs may also benefit from antinausea medications. Ask your vet for help on dosages and the right medications for your dog. Medications may include diphenhydramine (Benadryl), dimenhydranate (Dramamine),  meclizine (Bonine) and a prescription medication known as maropitant (brand name Cerenia). 

So  if you travel often and long distances, I would discuss this with your vet. Your vet can help determine if Loki would benefit from antinausea medication to use in conjunction with an anxiety-reducing plan. Here is just an example of one that is similar to yours:

 Start by allowing some fun time in the car while it's stationary. Give toys, play with him, lots of praise and then end all the fun once out of the car. Rinse and repeat several times. Eventually, turn on the car, while offering toys, play and lots of praise. Stop all the fun, once out of the car.  Progress gradually to driving the car for just a few seconds while a helper praises, play with the dog etc. etc. Gradually increase the length of these trips, but randomly mix in some short trips as well.  Bring to happy places (pet store, parks, friend's homes) not only the vet.

If, at any point, he shows signs of anxiety, the process should be halted and the exercise must resume at a level the dog was able to tolerate and gradually built from there. So it's important to carefully gauge  how long a drive he can tolerate (factor in the amount of curves, acceleration/decelerations)and avoid push too much past his tolerance level, until he's fine with a shorter drive.  Similar baby steps are needed with  creating positive associations with the travel crate.

It's good that it's a different crate than the one he sleeps in at night. Make sure it's cleaned very well as the smell of vomit can cause them to go into avoidance mode. 

Yes, in general puppies outgrow this motion sickness phase. In my Rottweiler Petra it went away once she was 6 months. A large percentage of pups I had as fosters that I had to drive for long trips to get spayed/neutered, would at some point vomit in the car. 

[FrederykBlot]

Thank you for all the advice

 

We'll go on with the baby steps

We also do some very short to the forest up our house just to make a little car trip that finish to a nice place / moment

 

 

Unfortunately I'm not sure we'll be able to do a full training baby steps...

He often has to go to the vet for vaccines lately, and in a few weeks, we have quite a big trip to see family

Can this type of scenario just "cancel" the effort ? I mean, we'll try baby steps, but worst case scenario, next vet trip he vomits again, will it be a huge drawback ? Or what is acquired should be pretty solid ?

 

There are so many nice places around, it will be sad to avoid going there

Thanks for the help

[Adrienne]

Thank you for all the advice. We'll go on with the baby steps. We also do some very short to the forest up our house just to make a little car trip that finish to a nice place / moment.

Sounds like a plan. You can even split the baby steps into more tiny steps like doing lots of positive and fun things near the car at first. Like playing with toys, treat near the car, then graduating inside the car with the doors open. Then with the engine running. Then out of the car things get boring and dull, and then back in making the fun things happen only in the car. Then, very short drives and then short drives to fun places. 

Unfortunately I'm not sure we'll be able to do a full training baby steps...He often has to go to the vet for vaccines lately, and in a few weeks, we have quite a big trip to see family. Can this type of scenario just "cancel" the effort ? I mean, we'll try baby steps, but worst case scenario, next vet trip he vomits again, will it be a huge drawback ? Or what is acquired should be pretty solid ?

I am afraid the getting car sick can lead to a setback, dogs just get miserable when they get motion sick. As I kid I used to get motion sick too (only when visiting family in Italy due to the amount of curves in the hilly areas) and I dreaded car rides, so I understand how they feel. They don't know what's happening to them and they just associate being in the car with the scary feeling.

Since you have another vet visit planned, you can ask your vet if he/she can prescribe something to help him. If your puppy saw the vet recently, you can maybe even give them a call and ask if they may be willing to prescribe something for motion sickness that you can pick up.   

 

[FrederykBlot]

Humm... It's sad

 

We took the car crate out of the car to do crate training on this specific crate to create positive association with the crate itself before putting it back in the car

 

It was obvious at first there was an issue : it put just 2 paws in and were out just after... But with luring with treats, giving the edible chew in this crate, putting new toys in there when he does not see, we seem to get better result : he now even get in himself with all 4 paws (likely to check if there's a treat or toy, but that's still progress)

 

I was really hoping to be able to do something... But motion sickness is a médical issue, not a behavior thing, or at least something you can control with training

 

 

I didn't want to arrive to the point of medication... my Mum has motion sickness, and it does not get any better the more we take the car...

 

We'll go on with training for shorter distance and at least avoid feeding him before, but maybe medication for the bigger trips would be needed

 

Thank you

[Adrienne]

I was really hoping to be able to do something... But motion sickness is a médical issue, not a behavior thing, or at least something you can control with training.

It's still good to do baby steps and go for the shorter drives that don't typically evoke too much nausea/vomiting, considering that, if they outgrow it, some anxiety may still linger on. The brief and fun trips can also help desensitize to movement. 

I didn't want to arrive to the point of medication... my Mum has motion sickness, and it does not get any better the more we take the car...

In general, puppies tend to outgrow the motion sickness by the age of one so that's a positive thing. Let's hope that's the case with Loki.

We'll go on with training for shorter distance and at least avoid feeding him before, but maybe medication for the bigger trips would be needed.

Frequent stops and fresh air can help too. 

[FrederykBlot]

Hi

Following the détails of this célébration day, we had a "what in Holy Sacred just happened moment"

 

About car training, lately we didn't do much specific training but we tweak a bit the installation in the car :

- we actually put the cooling mat in the car crate. Before it was a bedding thing, with fabric... And cleaning after the vomit was always harder. Cleaning mat served 2 purpose : make cleaning easier, and refresh him while in the car. And this really helped. We noticed the first +30min trip without vomit after that, being in a fresher area in must have helped

- we moved a bit the crate on the other side. That way, it was easier for my gf to pick him up to put in the crate, and easier to pick him up to put him out of the car. We thought that even if we force him a bit it is at least way quicker and he would stay less longer in a stressed state. Before We sometimes took almost 10 min to make him go out because he wouldn't figure out how to get out, nor wanted to be picked up

- all vaccination are done for at least a year, so all the last trips were for pure pleasure : New walking place, puppy school, dog pension visits...

 

we were aware that it may be not the perfect scénario, at least, that we saw progress : less whining, less vomiting... And thought we were on a right track

 

and yesterday, moment of Grace : we went on a nice new walking place, he even met a young Bernese with whom he was allowed to play unleashed...

moment to get back, I open the car door, before my gf was supposed to pick him up, but he jumped on the passenger seat, went in the crate through the middle between passager and driver seat, and lied down...

we couldn't believe it...

 

slow and steady, with good sense and benevolence would make everything possible !

 

Edited July 9, 2021 by FrederykBlot

[Adrienne]

Glad to hear about the great progress! You have helped him a ton and even made arrangements to make the car ideal for him, so your work is paying off.  It helps a lot at an emotional level to go to pleasant places. While motion sickness is a physical issue, it also has emotional components that can have an impact and make the motion sickness worse.