training "down"

[BrendaSamford]

I followed the steps and started with the lure making the L.  She sits and goes about halfway down but will not follow the treat any further.  I treated after she looked down and headed that way trying to break it up in smaller segments  which has not worked yet anyway. We do train on carpet so thats not a problem.  I have changed treats to entice her more.  Now today I moved her front leg a little so she bent a little further but  only with my help.  Can someone give me a suggestion of what to do next?  Thanks

 

Brenda Samford

[Adrienne]

Hi Brenda, 

Sometimes there are some dogs who for some reason or another may be a bit reluctant to lie down. Sometimes it's a matter of conformation, sometimes dogs just feel a bit vulnerable lying down, while some other dogs may have a bit of joint pain perhaps, but in that case you should notice stiffness and a general reluctance to not lie down often. 

Joint issues/pain aside, here are some ideas;

If this is a small dog, one thing you can try is the "bridge method" where you sit on the floor with your legs bent and use your food lure to get your dog to walk under your legs.  To walk under your legs she'll have to crouch down  or "army crawl" so when you notice her elbows and hind legs touching the floor going into a down, mark that and reward that. 

Rinse and repeat several times to allow muscle memory to kick in. Then, after getting the behavior reliably, you can start to gradually fade reliance on your legs by getting her to perform the down with your legs set up higher and then farther away from them until the behavior became fluent enough for her to perform it without the aid of your legs. 

Alternatively, you can try working under a low bench. 

Another option is to use capturing where you praise and reward a natural behavior without the use of any prompts. Sit on the couch with your dog on leash and wait for her to get tired and lie down (this may work best when your dog is tired).

Once she lies down, say "yes!" or click the clicker and give a treat. Repeat several times (the behavior should increase once she starts associating the position with treats), then at some point, once the behavior starts getting more and more reliable, you can then move on to naming it.

Simply say "down" right as your dog is lying down, praise and reward and then start saying it one split second prior to lying down and praise and reward. At some point, the behavior should start getting more and more reliable. 

I hope this helps!

Let me know how things work out for you. With some dogs, we need to think outside of the box, which is what makes training dogs never boring!

Best,

Adrienne 

[BrendaSamford]

Thank you my dog is a Great Dane, Gracie, so needless to say the bridge method will not work.  I will try capturing like you suggested.  I don't think she has any pain issues she is 2 and has lots of energy and lays down and gets up all the time when she wants too.  

 

Brenda

[Adrienne]

Yes, definitely the bridge method won't work with a great dane!

Before going the capturing route, you can try the bench or chair method. The method is similar to training a dog to take a bow using a chair as a prop, only that you would click or say yes when the elbows and bottom touch the floor, whereas in taking a bow you would click or say yes when just the elbows touch the floor and the bottom is in the air. Below is the demo of the chair method to take a bow, you would mostly have to wait it out for your dog to get tired a bit to lower the bottom down as well. 

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/video-archive/train-dog-bow/

Happy training!

[FrederykBlot]

I don't know if that may help, but down isn't also the easiest command for us also.

 

Even using the L technique and the luring, Loki would just throw himself down two front paws instead of doing a smooth lying down... If he not throwing himself down, he would aim at my finger (finger downwards is the hand signal), either trying to nip, or trying to play "touch" 

I'm guess I'm ok with that, as the sit for impulse control is not that bad, and he naturally get down when we do " go to your mat" (because he figured a treat would come this little gluton)

 

My point being "down" is one of those command that can have subtleties that make it perhaps a harder than the others basics, and just requires more work and fine tuning than the others

(Please correct me if I'm wrong, it's just a personal statement based on my expérience with Loki, and I'm no expert at all)

[JMFS]

I'll toss in a vote for capturing.  It's one of the most useful tools I've learned so far.  I've noticed Gertie and Esther pick things up far quicker via the capture method.  Perhaps because it was something that came naturally to them and they got rewarded.  Esther is pretty much bell training herself to go outside, for example.  I didn't even think to start that training with her until she was done with accidents, but she's been curious about it and each time she's tapped it I've taken her outside and said, "potty."  She did it today and I Almost missed it, but she came over to me right after, tapped me with her nose and stared at me.  Okay, girl, I get it - let's go.  :D

Gertie learned "bow" through capturing.  Same with "roll over."  Roll over is a tough one to teach, imo, but she did it a couple times and I rewarded her so she started offering the behavior all the time, lol.

Esther was resistant to "down" unless we were outside and it was time to go inside.  Then she was happy to plop down in the grass.  I could have captured down then, but I was running to the door and shutting it instead of trying to chase down a puppy who has Far more energy than me.  That door close and "bye!" gets her moving - she doesn't want to miss the party!  Getting her inside was more important than down.  :p  Ultimately I ended up putting a treat under my hand to where she couldn't get it.  When she got tired of trying to paw and lick at my hand she'd eventually do a down and she was rewarded for that.  With the girls I didn't have much success with the "L" and I think it's because I move too fast.  Momo did the "L" but he was brilliant and learned most things within a few tries.

As an aside, I got a visual of trying the bridge method with a Great Dane - HA!