Demanding while we eat

[FrederykBlot]

Hello,

 

I opened a new thread as I didn't see much of that subject with the search features, but due to my parents in law behind around these last couple of days, we had dinner at the table and during Loki waking time

Usually when we only 2 at home, we avoid the subject of demanding during meals as we're eating during his naps. And the routine was kinda working : in the morning he sleeps of lot because of the weather I guess, and for dinner we have a big walk at the end of his awake session, and he sleeps one hour or so, and we can eat fine

While my in laws were there it was more complicated, because dinner preparation took more time, and the routine and schedule were impacted 🙂 mister Loki loved them more than us, and just wanted to stick around with them

Anyway, while they were here, we relied a lot on long lasting chews, and during the demanding times with paws on knees, we ordered "get down / paws on floor", and praised

 

Now that they're gone, we actually want to train that a little, because we will receive people during summer, and we don't want to be able to have dinner only if Loki is napping

So we implemented this : 

- at first, when he demanded with paws on knees, or even paws on table, we still went on with "go down + paws on floor" and praises

- we added a treat to the "go down + paws on floor"

- then we tried to anticipate, and when he wanders around the table, and is about to jump, we asked for "lie down", and treat.

- then more or less regurlarly, if he stays lied down, we praise and treat

 

My questions are : 

- is this implementation ok for avoiding the demanding behavior of jumping ? we're not against him being around, but just against him bothering or jumping on us / people

- as we are eating, we treat from the table. Obviously, we can't just get up, go away from the table, and treat him each time he has his paws up. Does this encourage demanding ? Still, we are careful to reward the "good behavior" (being lied down next to us, or putting back his paws on the floor)

- can you please advise an implementation for this if what we do is not a good implementation at all

- I saw that "go on your mat" is a thing in this case, but the mat is a bit far from the table, so it's also complicated to get up, do "go on mat" and get back to eat

 

Thanks in advance for your help

 

[Adrienne]

Usually, with pups or dogs who demand food, I suggest not giving any treats nearby the table. I know it makes sense to praise and treat for paws on the floor, but we needs to consider that when dogs receive treats in a certain area, they will be more likely to stick to that area more and more. On top of this, let's consider the possibilities for behavior chains, that is, Loki learning every that "every time I jump up and them put my paws on the ground I get a treat."

What I usually do is ignore the paws on knees behavior and make sure to never leave food by the edges of tables that attract dogs and even may encourage them to lick or steal. I also make sure that no crumbs ever fall to the ground (I tuck myself well in close to the table) and if something still happens to fall, I am ready for asking a well-timed "leave it." With time, aside some initial extinction bursts with some barking along the way, if no food is ever received nearby the table, the begging/attention-seeking behavior tends to decrease and eventually extinguish. 

An article about begging at the table can be found here:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/begging/

 

[FrederykBlot]

Hello Adrienne

 

Thank you for your answer

We will try the total ignore, and hope it will implement fast enough until we have new guests

I'm not really comfortable telling my guests "let pup have paws on you while you eat" 🙂 (which are likely to be dirty as it's really rainy in the area at the moment hahaha)

 

 

However, I couldn't see the link because of a technical issue : when trying to access your link, I click, then enter my login / password information, and end up on a blank empty page with address 

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/dap/authenticate.php

To whom and where should I address this ?

I tested many browser : Chrome, Firefox, Edge, Opera, and it all does the same

It did the same thing on both my laptop, and my smartphone

 

 

 

 

[Adrienne]

We will try the total ignore, and hope it will implement fast enough until we have new guests I'm not really comfortable telling my guests "let pup have paws on you while you eat" 🙂 (which are likely to be dirty as it's really rainy in the area at the moment hahaha)

In that case, when guests are over, you can try to set Loki up for success by having him enjoy some long lasting goodie on his mat ( strategically placed at a distance from the table). Alternatively, a baby gate may help (especially for guests who aren't too eager about dogs being around) until you can practice with some collaborative guests who are willing to work on ignoring (even if he makes the cutest face or sounds) and help reinforce in Loki's mind that, nope, no food/attention is given by the table, even by a variety of different guests. 

I think there was an update or something and tech support is currently working on it.

The article mostly covered the importance of ignoring, management (not letting food fall) ignoring and using the mat training coordinated with meal times.

[FrederykBlot]

haha the cute face is something to fear : even if my father in law knew we try to be strict, he couldnt resist to give a little sausage piece while we were having a drink in the yard... "thanks for the non-help in education !!". You know, it's like the grand-parents that like to break everything parent try to educate for their kids 😄 😄

 

I will try to ask my guests actually... they kinda dog lovers, maybe if I tell them just to get clothes they don't care about, they would help during meals

 

thanks for the info about the update, I will wait a bit then until it's fixed.

 

[Adrienne]

I hear you, got a flashback when my husband and I had to travel once and left our doggies with my mom and dad for a week or so and told them not to feed them at the table and no table scraps. "Sure no, problem!" said my dad. 

A week later when we arrive, at dinner time Petra and Einstein strategically placed themselves by the table and both made cute faces directed towards us which was very unusual. The truth comes up with dogs! My dad then finally admitted that when there was some bread left over he would give them a tiny, little piece, ha!

Let me know if you are still having trouble entering the main website, I would expect it to be fixed by now. 

[JMFS]

We dealt with this with the husband's mom every time we took the Dachshunds over there.  She and his daughter would sneak ham to them, grrrr.  Brownie would bloat up like a stuffed sausage every time he stayed with my mother-in-law and she Swore she only fed him what she was told to.  Uh huh, suuuure you did.  She can't handle the stress of dogs any more so that issue was self-resolving and we no longer take the little dogs over.  With Covid we haven't been there in almost 2 years now.

I had Mo trained to go to his mat for dinner time, and if he couldn't manage to contain himself I'd put him in a separate area.  It's tougher with the girls because there's no real separate area with an open floor plan.  Worst case scenario I put Esther on a leash and tie her to My chair.  She knows I will not allow her to beg.  Ignoring does work, though, over time.  We normally eat on the couch and all three dogs are on it with us.  Initially some of our food got licked and we were leaned against as they attempted to get sniffs in, but over time they learned "ain't nothin' gonna happen."  They get fed after we eat so this has become a precursor to a happy time for them, which I think helps.  In Esther's first few weeks I sure did put her in her kennel upstairs a couple times because she simply Would Not Settle.  Tonight we even had steak and Gertie fell asleep.  Esther was on her leash that's held down by the cushions so she can only go so far.  The main concern there is limiting her access to Abbi.

Gertie is my Golden Child and is happy to comply.  She'll initially beg, hopeful pup that she is, but once she's told no begging she'll meander off, or settle at your feet.  She even plays with her toy under my massage table when my therapist is here.  Esther would be jumping on him and trying to get pets, but no no it's My turn, so she stays downstairs with the husband for now.  Having said that, when another dog is present, Gertie is only as well-behaved as the other dog, as if she forgets herself and gives into the dogginess unfolding around her.  I've leashed them both to the hammock so we could eat in peace because they get each other too excited to behave.  Eventually they get to understanding that good behavior = being allowed to hang out with us and begging = being removed from the party.  I give them treats while we eat if they are calm while leashed to reinforce that that's the behavior I'm looking for.  I haven't done long-lasting treats so I'm taking that under advisement - I am wary of the toy getting away from them and plopping into the pool, which would be a Mess.  I used to put them outside of the screen room, but currently the back yard is too wild with mushrooms and poison oak for them to be out there unsupervised.

On the occasion that they Do manage to jump up or bump peoples' hands, our guests have been taught to put their hands in their laps and turn away from the offender, after pushing their plates out of reach.  Even our 6-yr old grandson is adept at this maneuver so I know adults can figure it out!  We also place chairs strategically to to make it easier for our visitors to perform these actions, and to minimize the dogs' access if I don't leash them.  I always give them an opportunity to behave before going the leash route.  I'll never know if they've learned the lesson if I start out with the leashes.

[FrederykBlot]

Thank you both for the sharing (made me smile / laugh) and for the advice

 

It will come around

(I'm in a positive mood today, we had great victories I will share on the dedicated threads)

[FrederykBlot]

By the way, the website is working again.

I managed to see the article.