Whining during walks

[FrederykBlot]

Hello 

 

I am curious about a new behavior Loki is displaying : at some point during walks, he would start whining in some directions
There is no problem here per say, in the sense there are no symptoms of illness or anything. We just continue to advance, and it's over 10 meters further

 

Sometimes he does that when he sees people or other dogs and want to greet them.
But I am talking here about whining without any kind of visible trigger

I guess he must smell stuff, I was wondering : 

- female in heat ? I'm not sure it's the time ? is he also old enough to sexual desires ?
- my gf in the way to public transportation ? this morning he did it at the crossroads where we take the tramway, while she works at the office today, he even sat and waited a few seconds

 

 

 

 

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Is Loki neutered? How old is he exactly now?

How close were you to where your girlfriend works? How long ago did she leave for work since you passed by the area? 

Dogs are amazing in their sniffing abilities and there are some stories that sound unbelievable at times. 

[FrederykBlot]

Not neuteured, and actually 8 months today :) It's his 8monthnniversary :D

 

Her work, very far, it's a 30 min tramway trip. But the walk to the tramway, we passed by during Loki's walk sometimes
She leaved at 8AM when the walk was at 10AMish

 

But sometimes it's elsewhere, I'm just throwing ideas here

 

It doesn't seem much like a problem, but just don't want to be sure it's not a sign of something bad

[Adrienne Farricelli]

" Female in heat? I'm not sure it's the time ? is he also old enough to sexual desires?"

Intact female dogs go in heat generally twice a year starting from the age of 6 months up to 18 months depending on breed. Male dog don't go "in heat," they just respond to pheromones left by female dogs in heat.  So they "activate' mostly when they detect a female in heat. Sexual maturity in intact male dogs is expected to occur starting around 5 months of age, so sure, Loki can certainly be attracted by wafting smells. 

It is believed that male dogs are able to smell female dogs in heat from miles away. In general anywhere between half a mile to 2.5 miles (almost 4 kilometers). How many miles will of course vary based on various factors such as the speed of the wind blowing, the humidity levels, how strong the dog's sense of smell is etc.  

So it could be that his restless behavior may be caused by a female dog going into heat if there are any intact females nearby. Female dogs in heat will urine mark in a variety of places for the purpose of leaving around pheromones that attract male dogs.

A dog's vomeronasal organ (a pouch-like structure located between the dog's vomer and nasal bones) is designed to detect pheromones. It  is equipped with a special duct located at the top of the dog's roof of the mouth. This duct is known as the incisive papilla.

You may sometimes catch male dogs chattering their teeth and foaming at the mouth upon sniffing a certain spot. By doing so, they are basically gathering large scent molecules towards their incisiva papilla with the help of their tongue (tonguing) so that they reach the vomeronasal organ.

Once the scent molecules reach the vomeronasal organ they're relayed to important parts of the dog's brain responsible for analyzing smells, and based on them, it may coordinate instinctive behaviors such as marking and overmarking urine spots left by female dogs, roaming, whining in frustration, asking to be let out in the yard and escaping to search for a mate.

Her work, very far, it's a 30 min tramway trip. But the walk to the tramway, we passed by during Loki's walk sometimes. She leaved at 8AM when the walk was at 10AMish

In regards to your girlfriend, we don't know really how good average dogs may be in tracking scent this way, although dogs trained in search and rescue are perfectly capable of finding people this way. For instance, we know trained bloodhounds are able to catch their owner's scent if they're walking and the wind is blowing the right way, but likely at less than a mile.  

So who knows, most likely Loki is detecting something that is worthy of whining about. It could be in response to a scent, a visual landmark, or even an internal sensation (excitement, frustration, thirst, tiredness, anxiety). 

[FrederykBlot]

Makes sense

Thanks for all the information, it's really instructive

 

Still, it was just out of curiosity. I do not feel any distress or anything

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Sure thing!

It's always insightful to be thinking about our dogs and how they must perceive the world. It makes us understand them better, although as mostly visual beings, we are quite limited in the olfactory department. 

[FrederykBlot]

Hello,

 

little news here : whining seemed to have passed... long time before he whined while we walked

However lately, a new behavior showed up :) once again, nothing dramatic, but more curious

While walks are Loki's best thing, in the morning, he's not much into it... 
He would sit in front of the outside door, sometimes even for minutes, and at some point he would go...
Also, in the usual road that gets to the fields, he would sit, and stay, like he doesn't want to go there... Not showing any sign of fear, or distress...
Just staying there, like saying "pffffff booooorrrriiinnngggg"

But after a few minutes, he would go, and enjoy the walk, as his normal self

 

I put it on the teenage thing, what you describes as the "duh moment"

Also he seems to show signs of the "2nd phase of fear" like little noise makes him jump, and maybe it is related... perhaps the sit has a little fright, but I wouldn't understand why in the usual neighborhood... perhaps the morning fog that started to appear with the decrease of temperature

[Adrienne Farricelli]

While walks are Loki's best thing, in the morning, he's not much into it... 
He would sit in front of the outside door, sometimes even for minutes, and at some point he would go...

Interesting.... does he have breakfast before or after walks?

Is he on leash with you when he sits in front of the door?

Also, in the usual road that gets to the fields, he would sit, and stay, like he doesn't want to go there... Not showing any sign of fear, or distress...
Just staying there, like saying "pffffff booooorrrriiinnngggg"

But after a few minutes, he would go, and enjoy the walk, as his normal self

I put it on the teenage thing, what you describes as the "duh moment"

If this is out of character for him, I would discuss with the vet just to play it safe in case there's some type of pain going on. I know he looks like he's just bored, but dogs can be stoic and hide pain and the only signs we may notice are a reluctance to walk or sort of lazy behaviors. 

Also he seems to show signs of the "2nd phase of fear" like little noise makes him jump, and maybe it is related... perhaps the sit has a little fright, but I wouldn't understand why in the usual neighborhood... perhaps the morning fog that started to appear with the decrease of temperature

It could likely be he's undergoing a fear period. It's important to work on increasing confidence https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/exercises-build-confidence-insecure-dogs/ In other words, clicker training, going through agility tunnels, letting him explore novel things with praise, can help with that. If you notice a pattern of what noises startle him, you can try the 'hear that' exercises outlined here: https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/fear-noises/

Fog can sometimes confuse dogs, and they may feel initially puzzled or maybe slightly disoriented and unsettled by the abrupt change in scenery. While sounds may be dampened, the humidity in fog increases scents, amplifying them significantly so it could also be he's smelling something unusual too.

[FrederykBlot]

Interesting.... does he have breakfast before or after walks?

Is he on leash with you when he sits in front of the door?

We give before the walk, but he usually eats after
Yes he's on leash. Free walk is only limited to big places where we really can see and control the environment as the teenage phase made him a bit worse at listening to us in a stimulated environment

If this is out of character for him, I would discuss with the vet just to play it safe in case there's some type of pain going on. I know he looks like he's just bored, but dogs can be stoic and hide pain and the only signs we may notice are a reluctance to walk or sort of lazy behaviors. 

It's only just with the morning walk. And it seems to happen more with me than with my gf... not other signs of anything worrying, poops are great, he has energy during the day for obedience, and playing...

It could likely be he's undergoing a fear period. It's important to work on increasing confidence

We still do lots of obedience and tricks, with lots of praise and rewards. I was wondering about tug o war ? I heard both thats it's an ok game, and it's a game not play.
I also learned the dog shouldn't win, or shouldn't win the last round. What is your position on tug ?

Fog can sometimes confuse dogs, and they may feel initially puzzled or maybe slightly disoriented and unsettled by the abrupt change in scenery. While sounds may be dampened, the humidity in fog increases scents, amplifying them significantly so it could also be he's smelling something unusual too.

That seems really likely, as I noticed it happens only in the morning, and only from last couple of days, where the temperature decrease drastically

[Adrienne Farricelli]

On 11/2/2021 at 10:21 AM, FrederykBlot said:

 

We give before the walk, but he usually eats after
Yes he's on leash. Free walk is only limited to big places where we really can see and control the environment as the teenage phase made him a bit worse at listening to us in a stimulated environment

Ah OK, so that means he's being free-fed? In other words, he has food available to eat whenever he wants?

That's good that you are letting him off leash only when you have good control of the environment. That ups the chances for him coming to you when called and helps set him up for success. 

It's only just with the morning walk. And it seems to happen more with me than with my gf... not other signs of anything worrying, poops are great, he has energy during the day for obedience, and playing...

Then, there must be something going on with the morning walks if he's totally fine with evening walks. For sake of exclusion, it would be interesting seeing if he'll readily go on walks with you in the evening, and if he'll readily go on walks with your girlfriend in the morning. Then we know the issue is the morning more than who he goes with on walks, unless there's something specific going on that he reacts to with you personally walking with him in the morning. 

It may be interesting seeing whether if you put him on a long leash and start walking ahead ignoring him, if he'll follow you at some point. 

We still do lots of obedience and tricks, with lots of praise and rewards. I was wondering about tug o war ? I heard both thats it's an ok game, and it's a game not play. I also learned the dog shouldn't win, or shouldn't win the last round. What is your position on tug ?

Keep up the great work in keeping Loki well-trained and happy!

In  regards to tug, I feel that it must follow some rules. I believe that a game of tug of war should always be initiated by the owner and ended by him as well. In order to remain a positive game, I think it's also crucial that the dog knows how to drop the tug toy on cue and take the tug toy when invited. I think it's good for dogs to win every now and then, but the dog should be willing to exchange the tug toy and not take off with it to play "keep away" or chew/destroy. 

I don't recommend playing tug with dogs who tend to guard food or toys or dogs who show stiff postures denoting it's no longer a game, but rather a more serious issue. 

That seems really likely, as I noticed it happens only in the morning, and only from last couple of days, where the temperature decrease drastically.

It would therefore be insightful assessing how he does on the next days with no fog.