Clinginess - Attention seeking - vocalization

[FrederykBlot]

Hello,

I would like a little advice about one of Loki's behavior that evolved quite a bit lately
(teenage phase is hard, it's all ups and downs, when you think the hardest is gone, something else coming right in your face :))

 

I think I mentioned it already, but Loki is a little "mamma's doggy", ingrateful boy as I'm the one more involved with the education and taking time 😛
But lately it is more and more expressed. Since several weeks, we switch offices from professional reason, and my gf ended up in the office next to the living room, in which he has access
I'm now in the upstairs office, which he does not have access as the stairs are blocked by a baby gate.

I'm usually the one doing the walks during the days, and after the walk, he would settle for some time, usually few hours, while we work.
But lately, he would nap like one hour, and then, would go to my gf in the office, and start some kind of attention seeking behavior : pawing on her, biting feet, sit and look at her while whining...

It may be also related to the will of going outside (the yard is now forbidden if not under supervision as he would sometimes dig, or bark on anything passing by), but even if he's allowed outside for a bit, he would come back, and redo all over again the attention seeking behavior

When needed he is expelled, and office is closed because she may have meetings, or urgent matter, and barking and howling starts in the house, which is also new, to express his unhapiness

 

He does not do that with me... I'm not sure if I'm jealous or not 🙂 I don't know if it's more "respect" towards me, in the sense "this is the boss, I shouldn't make weird stuff with him", or less affection (which I would find a bit sad, as I'm the one that wanted him in the first place :))

 

 

The thing is, she may have reinforce the behavior, as sometimes, to be sure safe a few moments, she would go play with him a bit, perhaps mistakenly showing him "if you seek attention, i would come"... but ignoring was difficult as he would become more "physical", like more pawing, a bit of jumping, louder whining...

 

We tried a new approach, but I'm not sure it's a correct one : we switch back office again today...
And it was quite hard... he whined a lot in front of the stairs... he barked a lot in the house...
But he never went on me as he usually did on her... and at some point he settled. (I gave a chew to help soothe things a little, he took it a few minutes, then went back whining in front of the stairs, then back to chew, and loop...)

Is it ok to make those kind of "changes" ? I mean, he seemed to settle in the end, but perhaps it "broke" his routine / usual environment ?

With my gf being upstairs, it's easier not to reinforce the "you seek attention, I come" with me ignoring him, as he doesn't go much to me, and when she gets downstairs, then she plays, pet him, showing more "it's ok, I'm not there always, but if you're nice, I would come back to you and do stuff with you"

We think a bit more of absence can lighten the clinginess, but can the "absence" cause anxiety / depression and the fact that he settles is more something like "pfff life sucks..."

 

thanks in advance for the help

[FrederykBlot]

A few precisions : 

- there is no health issue involved for sure : he got his last control check up at the vet few days ago, and everything's perfect, he's in perfect health, which is good news

- after switching desk, we started ignoring the whining. And some times, my gf would come down, and play with him / pet him, making sure this is her decision, not his.
It that the way to go ?

 

It's weird as we also evolved as a owner : while little, we learned to ignore the whining, and reward the calmness... being hard at the beginning, it became normal..
Finally he evolved well, everything was fine, like no more whining, easier settlement...
But now he is starting to whine again for whatever reason, and the worriness is coming back like "what ? why is he whining ? he wasnt whining lately... is something wrong ? what should we do ?"

While several weeks we would have been "mehhh let him settle alone" 🙂

 

[Adrienne Farricelli]

 

I'm usually the one doing the walks during the days, and after the walk, he would settle for some time, usually few hours, while we work. But lately, he would nap like one hour, and then, would go to my gf in the office, and start some kind of attention seeking behavior : pawing on her, biting feet, sit and look at her while whining...

The thing is, she may have reinforce the behavior, as sometimes, to be sure safe a few moments, she would go play with him a bit, perhaps mistakenly showing him "if you seek attention, i would come"... but ignoring was difficult as he would become more "physical", like more pawing, a bit of jumping, louder whining...

The reinforcing sometimes yes and sometimes no can really put a dent on any progress working on the issue. When we reinforce behaviors like that intermittently, they become more and more ingrained, sort of like playing the slot machines where the winning every now and then helps maintain the gambling behavior leading to an addiction. It's the power of variable schedules which leads to steady, high rates of responding. This works fine with behavior we want, but with undesirable behaviors they can easily get out of hand. 

If on top of reinforcing every now and then, we also reinforce behaviors that become more and more physical and intrusive, we are reinforcing persistence (as it happens when we reinforce when the dog is exhibiting an extinction burst). 

It would therefore be important reminding your girlfriend to be consistent so that you are both on the same page. Attention is given contingent on quiet, calm behaviors. Pushy behaviors grant no attention, zero, including attention of the negative type. 

Unclear directions or family members who give in to a dog's requests while others do not, can lead to confusion in the dog. Dogs quickly learn that they can "get away" with some behaviors when in presence of some family members, while with others they cannot. 

So if a dog seems to always sit next to a particular person for petting it may not be a sign that dog "loves" this person more, but just that this person is more likely to pet the dog when he approaches him/her compared to someone else who will ignore the dog. It's the power of reinforcement. Behaviors that are reinforced strengthen and repeat. 

If one family member therefore allows the dog to solicit attention, even inadvertently, such as distractedly petting the dog after he barks or paws while talking on the phone, while another family member gives attention only and exclusively after the dog calmly sits, this can lead to problems. Although this may seem like a little mishap, these types of inconsistencies quickly add up and may potentially create hurdles that may be challenging to work on once established.

It may be also related to the will of going outside (the yard is now forbidden if not under supervision as he would sometimes dig, or bark on anything passing by), but even if he's allowed outside for a bit, he would come back, and redo all over again the attention seeking behavior.

If he's no longer allowed in the yard, you may need to find some replacement activities to make up for the change. Foraging activities, nosework, clicker training, more sniffing adventures on walks (maybe on a long line), food puzzles etc. Abrupt changes (like if he was used spending time in the yard and now suddenly he cannot) may lead to a behavior vacuum which needs to be filled with other activities.  

He does not do that with me... I'm not sure if I'm jealous or not 🙂 I don't know if it's more "respect" towards me, in the sense "this is the boss, I shouldn't make weird stuff with him", or less affection (which I would find a bit sad, as I'm the one that wanted him in the first place :))

It could be you are more consistent. On top f this, several dogs seem to respond more to requests from men compared to those from women and children and this can be due to the fact that men's' voices have deeper tones. 

We tried a new approach, but I'm not sure it's a correct one : we switch back office again today...And it was quite hard... he whined a lot in front of the stairs... he barked a lot in the house...But he never went on me as he usually did on her... and at some point he settled. (I gave a chew to help soothe things a little, he took it a few minutes, then went back whining in front of the stairs, then back to chew, and loop...)

Is it ok to make those kind of "changes" ? I mean, he seemed to settle in the end, but perhaps it "broke" his routine / usual environment ?

With my gf being upstairs, it's easier not to reinforce the "you seek attention, I come" with me ignoring him, as he doesn't go much to me, and when she gets downstairs, then she plays, pet him, showing more "it's ok, I'm not there always, but if you're nice, I would come back to you and do stuff with you"

We think a bit more of absence can lighten the clinginess, but can the "absence" cause anxiety / depression and the fact that he settles is more something like "pfff life sucks..."

I think you are on the right track. Antecedent arrangement (just a fancy name for environmental management) is one of the primary preferred behavior intervention strategies. 

Antecedent arrangement basically entails strategically setting up a dog's environment in such a way that the dog is less likely to make a mistake during training or exhibit a problem behavior during behavior modification. The benefits of this strategy are several.

Firstly, antecedent arrangement prevents the dog from rehearsing the problematic behavior. Just like actors who get better and better the more they get to rehearse a play, dogs get better and better in rehearsing problematic behaviors.

In a nutshell, the more a dog gets to practice an undesirable behavior, the more it puts roots and becomes more difficult to eradicate.

At the same time, antecedent arrangement sets both the dog and the dog owner up for success. It helps evoke desirable behaviors while making the exhibition of the undesirable behavior harder. With antecedent arrangement, dogs are therefore more likely to engage in desirable behaviors and dog owners are more likely to be happy with the results. 

By changing the conditions that occur before the behavior, it is therefore possible to change  behaviors for the best! You are basically manipulating the environment to increase the likelihood of a desirable behavior you want.

Antecedent arrangement strategies work best when dealing with certain behaviors that tend to occur in specific contexts or circumstances.

If you can describe your dog's behavior by saying something along the terms of "when my dog sees me ____ he starts jumping " or "every time my dog hears the ____ he starts barking" you have a great advantage on your side: predictability. Anytime you can predict when your dog may engage in an undesirable behavior, you have the power to make changes

Since Loki tends to bark and solicit attention when your girlfriend is working (the antecedent that triggers the behavior), then you can take steps to preempt the behavior and the office change where your girlfriend is no longer easily accessible can help accomplish that. 

Since no longer accessing your girlfriend can lead to some frustration, it may help providing him with something desirable to chew. I see you already did that so kudos to you for taking that step! While he chewed a bit and then went back to whining, it seems like he made peace with the situation and with time, he'll come to accept the new situation. 

I wouldn't worry about the break in routine as long as you provide him with something to do as it sounds like he may be bored and has this strong desire for attention. I am dropping a link that shows the primary preferred methods to use in order to change dog behavior and you'll see that antecedent arrangement ranks second spot.

https://www.ccpdt.org/about-us/least-intrusive-minimally-aversive-lima-effective-behavior-intervention-policy/

The primary spot consists of evaluating distant antecedents which encompass setting events variables such as health issues, lack of sleep, need for more exercise or mental stimulation, stress-inducing environments and phenomena like trigger stacking etc. 

- after switching desk, we started ignoring the whining. And some times, my gf would come down, and play with him / pet him, making sure this is her decision, not his.
It that the way to go ?

Yes, it would be ideal that petting is provided contingent upon calm, non-pushy behaviors and yes your girlfriend should decide as long as it's a time where Loki may enjoy the interaction too (like not while he's eating, barking at something or in a hyper mood). When done petting, we can give a verbal signal such as 'that's enough" accompanied by a hand gesture to call it quits. I like to make a horizontal line with both hands in different directions as I then cross my arms and wait for the dog to leave.  No attention is given should the dog try to solicit it. We may even get up and leave it the dog persists. 

But now he is starting to whine again for whatever reason, and the worriness is coming back like "what ? why is he whining ? he wasnt whining lately... is something wrong ? what should we do ?"While several weeks we would have been "mehhh let him settle alone" 🙂

You are describing perfectly the teenager stage where there are moments of regression. It is important to remain consistent and provide lots of opportunities to keep that brain and body busy and this too shall eventually pass. 

[FrederykBlot]

Thank you very much for this most detailed advises

 

We both know that she may have reinforce unvolontarly the behavior, but I wouldn't be harsh on her, given I'm pretty sure I could also have made the same mistakes in the same situation, if Loki would have been onto me like he was onto her... If you're working on something important, or have a meeting in a moment, and you have a dog that jumps on you, bark around, you may indulge here and there... I know, it's an easy way out, and short term, but sometimes you just don't see any other way

And except for those "emergency moment", we're really in the same mindset about the education...  so I cannot say for sure that he's more into her because she's more easy with him

 

If he's no longer allowed in the yard, you may need to find some replacement activities to make up for the change. Foraging activities, nosework, clicker training, more sniffing adventures on walks (maybe on a long line), food puzzles etc. Abrupt changes (like if he was used spending time in the yard and now suddenly he cannot) may lead to a behavior vacuum which needs to be filled with other activities.  

Yard limitation is not new at all. It has been since months (when he barked so much we had neighbors trouble) that the yard is a controlled place. He's allowed in the morning between waking up and first walk, then at noon after we eat and before second walk, and after our work day and before last walk

But no problem with that since then

However, he has toys, and we still do training, but usually when alone, he naps, and doesn't play much alone 

 

you can take steps to preempt the behavior and the office change where your girlfriend is no longer easily accessible can help accomplish that. 

Yes we are firm believer of environment control before counter conditioning in order to set the stage for easier victories instead of too difficult too soon

Don't want to pat us on the back too soon, but since then, while he's still a bit clingy when she gets there, it seems to have less "bad behavior" like pawing and jumping
It surely is easier when she's not sitting at the desk, but even with sitting in the living room it seem there are less sollications...

 

We'll try now to follow your advice about "prediction", trying to find the exact state and triggers that make him behave like that, to try correct that

 

 

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Thank you very much for this most detailed advises.

You are very welcome! I know how precious Loki is to you and your girlfriend and how dedicated you both are in raising him well. I appreciate all the work you both put in. 

We both know that she may have reinforce unvolontarly the behavior, but I wouldn't be harsh on her, given I'm pretty sure I could also have made the same mistakes in the same situation, if Loki would have been onto me like he was onto her... If you're working on something important, or have a meeting in a moment, and you have a dog that jumps on you, bark around, you may indulge here and there... I know, it's an easy way out, and short term, but sometimes you just don't see any other way

And except for those "emergency moment", we're really in the same mindset about the education...  so I cannot say for sure that he's more into her because she's more easy with him.

 Oh no, I don't want for you to be harsh on her at all! I fully understand, sometimes we may be in situations where we need our dogs to be quiet quickly and the fastest way is giving them what they want at least until we can find a better way. Been there, done that, especially with dogs living in apartments where no more than a few minutes barking is tolerated. The important thing is that you have found a solution that seems to be working (the swapping office spaces).

Yes we are firm believer of environment control before counter conditioning in order to set the stage for easier victories instead of too difficult too soon

Don't want to pat us on the back too soon, but since then, while he's still a bit clingy when she gets there, it seems to have less "bad behavior" like pawing and jumping
It surely is easier when she's not sitting at the desk, but even with sitting in the living room it seem there are less sollications...We'll try now to follow your advice about "prediction", trying to find the exact state and triggers that make him behave like that, to try correct that.

Sounds like a great plan!