Puppy sleeping habits

[opheliesistac]

Hi, first of all thank you for the amazing training courses you have created !! We have started the Obedience 101 and it is working so well. :).

Background : We have a 9 years old mix breed female who is with us for 8 years now and just adopted a 5 months male old french bulldog and he 's been with us for a month now. Until now he is sleeping in an open crate in the bathroom. He wakes up between 5.30 and 6am ( barking) and it seems that he is asking to go out, sometimes but less and less we find a pee. I can take him back and he would go back to sleep for an hour more or less. The older dog sleeps in the kitchen with a baby gate at the door. Every morning we move the puppy crate in the kitchen for the day. As he is getting house train, he is still monitored on where he can go in the house and for how long. My question so far is : when and how we can take him and the crate in the kitchen to sleep with the other dog. He has not spent one night in the closed crate yet. So far everything goes smooth and i am afraid that changing his habits may be a step back... what would be best to do now?

Thank you

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Glad to hear you have found the course so helpful and kudos to you for doing such a great job!

 

With dog behavior, it is difficult to give exact predictments on how a dog will handle a situation because there are so many individual factors at play. For example, how he will handle being closed the whole night and in a different room may depend on factors such as whether he was ever crate trained before, how well he can handle changes, how strong is his desire to be around other dogs is, how well your other dog sleeps at night, etc.

 

I have a few questions for you:

 

One important question is how far is the bathroom is from your bedroom? If the bathroom is near where you sleep, you might deal with some anxiety upon being moved to the kitchen as he likely has gotten used to proximity and smelling you close, hearing your reassuring breathing at night etc. If the bathroom is far from your bedroom, the outcome of this change may be a little better as he might feel a bit lonely at night, and being near your other dog the whole night may help put him at ease.

 

Other questions are: what would be the main reason/reasons for moving him from the bathroom to the kitchen? Have there been any issues? What is your goal for the move? Is the bathroom door closed? is he sleeping the whole night in the open crate or in other areas of the bathroom?

 

At 5 months, getting a pup to sleep in a closed crate and in a different room, I would expect that things can be a bit more challenging compared with doing all that from the get-go with an 8-week old pup. But it is doable in most cases. Something to keep in mind is that changes can be stressful for some dogs, and sometimes this triggers accidents around the house, although this is usually just temporary.

 

Generally, though it can be said that the more we help them in transitioning by taking small steps in the process, the better chances for avoiding major setbacks. Knowing more about the details can help me better formulate some suggestions for the changes.

Edited October 5, 2018 by Adrienne Farricelli

[opheliesistac]

Good morning, thank you for this very fast get back :) !

Ok so the bathroom is far from our bedroom, ground floor exactly and we sleep up stairs. The bathroom door is close and he sleeps in the open crate all night. bathroom is big enough so I can put 2 pads ( 60cmx60cm) next to each other in front of his crate and usually he calls around 6am to go outside and it has been few days that the bathroom is clean when he calls.The main reason to move him to the kitchen with the other dog is to go to a more normal / easy routine and I have to carry the crate every morning and evening back and forth and it is a bit heavy. Or do you think he can use another bed in the bathroom for the night and keep the crate in the kitchen for the days only ?

Any solutions would work as long as i stop carrying the crate everyday :) ! thank you in advance for your help !!

[Adrienne Farricelli]

I hear you about those crates being heavy! Sounds like you are using one of those large wire heavy-duty ones which feel like they are breaking your back and your fingers when you lift them and transport them around. Definetly, a very good reason to want to move him to the kitchen area!

 

Now, as mentioned, with changes, there are some expected drawbacks which may only pop up once the changes are implemented. In this case, we are looking at two major changes: location change and enclosure change ( crate being closed versus open). Some drawbacks that may come to mind with these changes include:

 

-The possibility that your other dog may negatively impact your pup's established sleeping habits. If your pup is used to playing with your older dog during the day, there may be chances he may want out of the crate at night or early morning.

-The possibility that a change may evoke some stress that may trigger some setbacks in the potty training process (puppy peeing/pooping). As mentioned though, these accidents are often just temporary as he adjusts to the change.

-The possibility that being closed in the crate may cause whining since he may not be able to go in and out as he pleases. I know you mentioned that he sleeps in the crate all night in the bathroom with the bathroom door closed, but there are chances that he may go in and out at will and you are not aware of it since you don't see what he does throughout the night.

-The possibilty that being closed all night in the crate may cause a negative association with it (feeling trapped) and therefore the onset of a reluctance to want to step in it when needed.

-There may be other drawbacks that may show up only once the change is implemented. For instance, if he is used to using the 2 pads next to each other in front of his crate when he needs to go, if he's closed in the crate, he may have an accident because he no longer has access to them (unless you have a large crate where you can accomodate a pad in one corner in a puppy apartment fashion).

 

There are also some pros though with the change:

 

-If you take both dogs outdoors first thing in the morning, your older dog by example (pups watch other dogs and often learn from them quickly!) can help you teach your pup to go outside to potty. Praise and reward both dogs for successful outdoor elimination.

-You will train your pup to be comfortable in the crate so that you can crate him with the crate door closed as needed.

-A closed crate of the right size can help your puppy succeed in the potty training process. Puppies don't like to soil where they sleep so if the crate is of the right size (snug enough to not make him want to soil in one corner), he will likely learn to hold it and will call to go outside rather than step out an open crate and have an accident.

--And of course you won't have to carry that heavy crate anymore.

 

 

Here are some options:

 

-You can purchase another crate and use one for the night in the bathroom and one for the day in the kitchen area. Use the new crate for the kitchen and keep the old one in the bathroom for the night. Advantage: If it's not broken don't fix it. This has the least associated risks since everything remains almost the same and it sounds like from your description he has been doing well for now in the bathrom. As he develops and gets more and more reliable in the potty training department, you can then consider having him sleep in the kitchen with your other dog.

-You can move him to the kitchen area at night but rather than closing him in the crate, you can use what Ian Dunbar calls a long-term confinement area. Basically, close off an area of the kitchen with an exercise pen and place it around your puppy’s open crate and put the pads nearby (away from his sleeping area) so that, should he need to go and you don't make it on time, he can use the pads. You may also put his water bowl and food bowl in there should he ever need to be left for longer than he can keep it during the day. Disadvantage: he will continue to rely on pads versus learning to hold it and go exclusively outside. Advantage: your pup may learn to potty on pads and potty outdoors which can turn helpful during snow storms or other cases where he cannot be taken out.

-You can train him to stay in the closed crate at night in the kitchen and no longer use the bathroom. Disadvantage: you may have to set the alarm to take him out early in the morning to prevent accidents inside the crate and it may take time for him to learn to stay closed in the crate all night and in the kitchen, so some challenges will likely pop up in the process. However, there are things you can do to help him succeed. Below are some tips:

 

-Go gradual in teaching him to enjoy staying in the closed crate. Make sure to close him in for short periods at a time in the kitchen area to get him used to it. In video archive, you will find several tips on how to train your dog to love the crate though positive associations.

-Placing a blanket over the crate can help many pups relax and sleep.

-Make sure both dogs are exercised and provided enough brain games during the day so they are more likely to sleep rather than wanting to play. Don’t let your dogs sleep too much in the evening or they may feel like interacting more during the night or early morning.

-You may need to create separate sleeping areas at night in the kitchen should both dogs be reluctant to sleep because of their desire to interact with each other.

-When crated, it is best to skip food or water for 3 hours before going to bed. If he goes to bed with a full belly and bladder, he will likely need to potty at night or early morning.

 

As seen there are several pros and cons to consider. I hope you find what works best for you and your puppy.

Edited October 6, 2018 by Adrienne Farricelli

[opheliesistac]

thank you so much for the feed back! I think i will keep him in the bathroom as he is doing fine so far and well consider my other dog need some time alone to rest as well ! I try to wake up before him barking to take him out. I will try to put a just a cushion in the bathroom and keep the crate in the kitchen... will see!

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Sounds like a plan! Keep us posted on your pup's potty training progress.

[opheliesistac]

so far he is doing well in his cushion in the bathroom and even goes by himself after taking him out just before bed ( around 9.30pm). He calls ( barks) me around 5am . I take him for a quick pee and poop and back in the kitchen with my other dog. Usually he stays calm until I come back down around 6am... I hope the 5am will soon ends... Other than that, during the day we take him out as often as needed and he is doing very well and he even asks to go out from time to time ( sits by the door and cry a bit )...

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Sounds great. If he's going in the bathroom by himself, that means you have done a great job in making the area comfy and nice. Things should start getting better as he attains better bowel and bladder control. Some pups take more, some less. Usually, by 6-7 months they can keep it for 8 hours straight.