Static shock

[FrederykBlot]

Hi all,

I have a weird trouble :)

I don't know if it' my clothes, or something, but it happens I often get a little static shock when I touch metal chairs, or knobs...

And lately a bad thing is I was doing education with Loki, having a spoon with wet food and using it as a treat, and when Loki came, he got static shock from the spoon... He was a bit afraid, and went away from me and the spoon, and our education session was over...

I said one time ok... no trouble here... few days later, he got another with my hand trying to give him treats...
and another one when I gave him food in his bowl (it's an inox bowl)

Since that, it's getting difficult to get him to come to me... If I have the spoon with food he would go away head down, avoiding eye contact, as he thought I would want to beat him...

Even calling him with real high value treats makes him suspicious and sometimes he doesn't come

 

How can I counter condition that ? as just calling put him in "alert mode" ... playing is ok, but when I want to do training and get the treats, he gets all suspicious

 

Thank you

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Hi, I hear you!

I am sharing a short story on how static made my cat super anxious/aggressive. 

I once had a Persian cat, and we had carpet in 80 percent of our home, and I think her long hair and the repeated shock from the carpet caused her to get really anxious and eventually even aggressive. She had these sort of redirected aggression episodes where she would lash out and try to scratch and attack out feet. She would even chase us angrily around  and sometimes poor baby was so anxious she would even pee on herself!

I had to close her in a dark room to recover, and I was desperate because no vets seemed to be able to help and had no clue what was causing it. Talking to her, trying to feed her food didn't work, it's as if she didn't even recognize us and just wanted to attack. I had cat pheromone diffusers (Feliway) on every floor and used several calming aids, but nothing helped. 

I had to turn detective on my own, and suspected the issue was the carpet and seeing things out of the window that over stimulated her-or maybe a combo of both. Feline hyperesthesia was something I read about that somewhat resembled a bit what she had, but back then there wasn't mush knowledge about that.

It got so bad that when I went on vacation to Italy I took her with me to see whether being in another home made a difference. My parents in Italy had only ceramic tiles and after a few days of adjusting, her behavior improved greatly only happening once in a blue moon. So I had to make the decision to re-home her there, so she stayed with my parents and I visited her once a year. 

This just to point out how something innocent like a small static shock can affect pets. They don't know what is happening, they just feel as if they are being "punished" by something coming unpredictably and out of no where. Poor Loki being a fuzz ball is likely very predisposed to this. Not to mention, this perhaps brings back old memories of the electric fence accident!

I think firstly, it may help to find ways to reduce the static.

Try training away from rugs and carpets.

In the USA we have Bounce, a special fabric softener sheet that has anti-static properties. Some people pass this sheet on their dog's coat to remove static. (WARNING, PLEASE SEE FOLLOW UP POSTS BELOW ABOUT SOME RISKS IN USING THESE)

There are also antistatic shampoo and sprays for pets I think, that may be worthy of trying. 

Try swapping to ceramic or glass bowls. 

No metal spoons

I think what you can do at this point, is skip the training for some days and focus on play in areas where there is no risk for static. Then, very gradually and casually, in the midst of it, incorporate a training cue (sort of like doing the jazz up settle down brain game) making it extra fun and right after the obedience cue, praise lavishly and toss a jackpot of treats to the ground (no carpet/rug area). 

Poor Loki! How is his giardia doing? Is it all clear now? Has he vet given yet the OK to re-socialize with dogs?

[JMFS]

Water.  You could use a washcloth to dampen his coat - that would help eliminate the static.  I would think adding an oil like jojoba or coconut would assist in coating the fur.  If it's your hands, you could keep a damp washcloth nearby (not always convenient) and wipe your hands on that before touching him.

Do you brush Loki?  The oils from his skin would be spread throughout his coat, thus helping to reduce static. There are brushes made for reducing static electricity.

If it's not very humid where you are, running a humidifier can help, too.  That would be the least intrusive / disruptive method.  Also the easiest.

I'll ask my friend who is a dog groomer if she has any additional ideas.  She turned us on to this Espree line of shampoos and conditioners.

https://www.espree.com/dog-grooming/simple-shed-static-spray

[FrederykBlot]

Thank you all for all the good advices

 

Using the wooden spoon and switch bowl, i think we'll do it (actually lately with the giardia, we change his diet, and started mixing wet food and dry food to reduce a lot the amount of carbs that are taken from the dry food, and as he wouldnt take the wet food in the bowl now, we used back the lick mat, or "the game of the balls"

 

@JMFSyes we brush, but on this one, i m pretty sure its coming from me, as i also happen to have it alone, and even with my gf :D :D

[JMFS]

@FrederykBlotYou're just electrifying!  😆😆😆  I'm the same way - I produce more static than the rest of the family.  Thankfully we have mostly hard floors with only my daughter's and the guest / storage / my yarn room having carpet.  I used to discharge my electricity by keeping a key next to my sink and touching that to the faucet.  With hair down to my waist the static halo of I can get around my head is quite impressive, lol.

[JMFS]

This is a product my groomer friend uses.  She avoids dryer sheets due to the chemicals, but says they do work well for brushing when the hair wants to clump together.  Just in case you end up needing something more to add to your current solution.  :)  She says there are many varieties of this type of product out there, this is just the one she uses when grooming.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

This is a product my groomer friend uses.  She avoids dryer sheets due to the chemicals, but says they do work well for brushing when the hair wants to clump together.  Just in case you end up needing something more to add to your current solution.  🙂 She says there are many varieties of this type of product out there, this is just the one she uses when grooming.

Eeek, I wasn't aware there were non-safe chemicals in the dryer sheets! Vet techs I worked with back in time used them for pets with static fur when they were grooming them after being boarded. I looked it up and found veterinarian Nicholas Dodman suggesting them,  but the quote is from 1999. A more recent book though mentions them being a risk if the dog ingests them or licks their fur. Something to be aware of!

In any case, good to know! I added a warning about this. Thanks for sharing that info Jennifer!

 

 

 

[JMFS]

Interesting.  There's no telling what chemicals are in those sheets.  Even the "all natural" ones are suspect because poison ivy is all natural, but I wouldn't recommend using it in a face wash or shampoo, lol.  Given the small amount of chemicals the dogs could ingest, though, it's likely safe for occasional use.  I think conditioner made for dogs mixed with water in a spray bottle would be a better solution, though.

One thing I like to do with the girls when their skin is dry, which I just recalled, is to make an oat milk and chamomile rinse.  I put regular oats in a French press, then add chamomile flowers and put the plunger in.  Then I fill to the top with water and let that sit overnight.  I bathe them, then pour the oat milk over their coat and let it sit for about 10 minutes (they're Fairly decent at standing still for me) before lightly rinsing it off.   Perhaps the mist using conditioner that's okay for dogs, or even the oat milk, might work.  All ours are short hair so I can't really test it out.  Momo always had plenty of dust in his fur to prevent static, lol.

[FrederykBlot]

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Poor Loki! How is his giardia doing? Is it all clear now? Has he vet given yet the OK to re-socialize with dogs?

oups sorry didn't see this part.

Yes , giardia is finally gone ! last test was negative ! however, I still sleep on one ear, but I'm always afraid something may come up again. I guess i'll be totally good after a few weeks of normal nights :D this thing can make us paranoid ! each time a p*op is not actually perfect, I'm always wondering "damn ! did it come back ??"

he got back to playing with othesr, and pension took him again, so we could have a little weekend out, and we needed that a bit

also, we change his diet, mixing now wet food and dry food, essentially to reduce carbs, as we saw that giardia feed more on carbs
I guess he needs time to adjust, as the stools have some episodes of softness and I'm often like "omg ! I m gonna have a bad night !!" :D

the "bad news" of this part, is that the static shock occured when I tried to feed him wet food, and now he seems to flee from it while before he would act like a dishwasher !
maybe I should try to enhance it a bit now, but I'm afraid after it would just end up being picky :)

[Adrienne Farricelli]

So glad that the giardia is finally over! I can understand the anxiety though in seeing a softer poop. It's so upsetting when dogs gets sick especially giardia that can be so obstinate to overcome.  

With the canned food being associated with the shock, maybe if you present it in a different form, it can be disguised a bit and then gradually morphed back into its original form? Like mixing the canned with the kibble and turning it into "meat balls" or warming it up so it becomes more liquid like? Or maybe offering it frozen in a Kong? Skip the muffin tin game of course, you don't want to risk more static!

[JMFS]

Hooray for the giardia being gone!  I know all-to-well what that's like (only Bloat instead) to be constantly cleaning up.  I bought 12 large reusable pee pads just for those situations since Esther is so adventurous with her mouth, and the incontinence.  I hose them off outside before putting them in our washing machine.

I get the same twinge of suspicion when we get soft stools!  "Ugh, not again!"  Ear scratches to Loki (with damp hands, lol).  <3

[FrederykBlot]

Thank you for the kind words both @JMFS and @Adrienne Farricelli
I'm almost a full week with no night calls... Sleeping is underrated :D You understand that when you get deprived of it for quite some time

About the wet food, I present it to a lick mat now, and I also scramble tiny pieces of high value treats (like hot dog), just a little piece that I pour on top, because I think maybe he associated with the smell also. It kinda work for now

[FrederykBlot]

I have a little question btw, I'm posting it here, but I'm not sure at all this is related with the static shocks

Lately, it seems that Loki is less eager to see, or my value has decreased or something
I thought about the static because I noticed it almost around the same time, but 

- when I come down the stairs, he's no more rushing to me even when he hears me
- on the morning, he's more interested by going outside than to greet me with a big party
- when he's chilling in the yard, and I whistle from inside, he's not rushing anymore, sometimes even fully ignoring me

 

Is it normal ? Like teenage dogs being less clingy with theirs parents as teenage humans are more rebellious with their parents ?
Besides, from what I heard from the breed, it is very related to their humans, but also quite independant in their way

 

Or is it something that needs a but adjusting ? Maybe because of the static, maybe because my behavior while he was sick (while being sleep deprived, I was kinda less patient, and more prone to irritability, less likely to be playful and happy around), the bond / trust / relationship took a little hit ?
If so, what can / should be done ? I tried treated randomly when I come around to associate my coming / presence with something good

 

[JMFS]

How often do you practice / reinforce recalls?  The first two points sound like he's maturing!  Gertie use to get up from her bed as soon as I walked in the room, but now she's like, "oh, it's . . . you.  Zzzzzz."

The third point, though, I know is problematic.  I've had to work with Gertie recently to reinforce her recall because she was doing the same as what you described.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

I have a little question btw, I'm posting it here, but I'm not sure at all this is related with the static shocks

Lately, it seems that Loki is less eager to see, or my value has decreased or something
I thought about the static because I noticed it almost around the same time, but 

- when I come down the stairs, he's no more rushing to me even when he hears me

- on the morning, he's more interested by going outside than to greet me with a big party

-when he's chilling in the yard, and I whistle from inside, he's not rushing anymore, sometimes even fully ignoring me

Is it normal ? Like teenage dogs being less clingy with theirs parents as teenage humans are more rebellious with their parents ?
Besides, from what I heard from the breed, it is very related to their humans, but also quite independant in their way.

This is hard to say. I would say my dogs used to get some pretty significant shocks too with the carpet when we touched them, but that just startled them a second and they then seemed to care less afterward. Even my female who was very soft and hated the tiny pinch of a needle at the vet's office recovered quickly. They kept on seeing us as the providers of food, care and affection.

With Loki's history of having received the fence shock and being afraid of the fence and its location for some time, and  my cat's experience with shocks, I would say it's not impossible. I have seen dogs act scared of the owners after getting a shock from back pain and studies have found that when dogs were shocked with electric collars they came to associate their owners with the shocks and the area, but those are pretty strong shocks compared to a static shock, but it boils down to individual sensitivities and past experiences which can sometimes amplify things. 

Age can certainly be a factor but I find it a little odd how he would suddenly change out of the blue, it could be a combination of factors though. 

Or is it something that needs a but adjusting ? Maybe because of the static, maybe because my behavior while he was sick (while being sleep deprived, I was kinda less patient, and more prone to irritability, less likely to be playful and happy around), the bond / trust / relationship took a little hit ?
If so, what can / should be done ? I tried treated randomly when I come around to associate my coming / presence with something good

Yes, the treating can help if it's related to the shock and you want to create positive associations, as can rewarding voluntary check-in when he's out in the yard, but please do have him see the vet if this persists and he seems to act different just to make sure there's nothing going on physically. 

[FrederykBlot]

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How often do you practice / reinforce recalls?

Clearly a bit less. With him maturing and getting better overall, we may have reduced the training in general, and specially thing we did before. We made more new things / new tricks, than reinforce the fundamentals. And also, using less high value treats, as the best are usually leftover of chicken when we had some, or hot dogs, and lately we were not around much. But we got back into it, specially because for Easter, we're going to my gf family, and there would be lots of people, so we want him to be very responsive.

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Gertie use to get up from her bed as soon as I walked in the room, but now she's like, "oh, it's . . . you.  Zzzzzz."

That looks pretty much like that :)

To give a bit of balance, I still get a super party when I come back from office (the rare days I'm not home office)

Sometimes, when I sit in the yard, chilling, he would come and sit next to my chair

And if he sees me moving around with a treat, this little interested b*****d (sorry for the language, but I don't know a good translation for "sagouin"  :))  would come eagerly !

 

Maybe even if it's just aging / maturing, I'll keep with treating randomly and the voluntary check in, just to reinforce my value, and coming to me

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Maybe even if it's just aging / maturing, I'll keep with treating randomly and the voluntary check in, just to reinforce my value, and coming to me.

That sounds like a good plan! Also when calling him, try lowering criteria, maybe try calling him when he has been in the yard for some time and is getting a bit bored and maybe even a bit thirsty. I wouldn't call him in the house without checking what he's doing first. If he's actively sniffing consider that a good part of the brain is used for that, so it may be more difficult grabbing his attention right away.

However, make sure to protect your recall, because calling too often with no response can lower its value considerably and can lead to learned irrelevance. You many need to go back to basics to power it up again, in areas with less distractions (avoid carpet areas though) and re-introduce valuable rewards (tossing the treat to prevent shock). 

I like to call dogs for their meals taking advantage of a dog's eagerness to eat, even if its offered in a food puzzle. However, I aim to get a response without showing food to not fall into the bribery trap. So treats are in pockets and meals are hidden behind my back (or I remain hidden in a hide-and-seek fashion), or even later, the food may be left on a tall shelf or counter so when the dog rushes to me, we both run towards this location, I ask for a sit and the food puzzle/bowl is placed on the floor. 

If Loki though is suspicious of certain foods because he has associated them with shock, be careful as that'll risk putting a dent in the recall too, so use something you're sure he loves and hasn't been "tainted' by any shock. 

While it's tempting to lower expectations once a dog appears to be better trained, relaxing a bit too much leads to setbacks that are then reflected in the level of a dog's responsiveness This is a time when more training can turn extra handy, to keep that teenager brain busy although you may notice times of regression. It is great that you have plans to up the training coming the next weeks. 

Something else to factor in, is that between the ages of 6 to 14 months, dogs go through another fear period:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/fear-periods-8-10-weeks-6-14-months/

 

[FrederykBlot]

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That sounds like a good plan! Also when calling him, try lowering criteria, maybe try calling him when he has been in the yard for some time and is getting a bit bored and maybe even a bit thirsty. I wouldn't call him in the house without checking what he's doing first. If he's actively sniffing consider that a good part of the brain is used for that, so it may be more difficult grabbing his attention right away.

However, make sure to protect your recall, because calling too often with no response can lower its value considerably and can lead to learned irrelevance. You many need to go back to basics to power it up again, in areas with less distractions (avoid carpet areas though) and re-introduce valuable rewards (tossing the treat to prevent shock). 

Thanks for the tips. We actually started to do exactly that, and once again, value of the treat played a major role (it's fun how we can forget important stuff and neglige them once we have the feeling everything is getting better). As we also started learning recalls using a whistle (my gf cannot whistle with the mouth :)) so we started again random recalls in the house : first with him looking at us from the yard while we're in the kitchen so he would think there is a treat involved to trigger, and now going on with random whistle during the day 

 

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If Loki though is suspicious of certain foods because he has associated them with shock, be careful as that'll risk putting a dent in the recall too, so use something you're sure he loves and hasn't been "tainted' by any shock. 

Food is gettiing better as we actually changed. We noticed than the wet food with beef seemed to suit him badly : I was always afraid of giardia about the stools softness but we saw some significant improvement when we switched from beef to turkey. And as the shock was with beef, we solved 2 problems in one hit :) not completely solved though, but better... I guess he's just not a big eater also

 

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While it's tempting to lower expectations once a dog appears to be better trained, relaxing a bit too much leads to setbacks that are then reflected in the level of a dog's responsiveness This is a time when more training can turn extra handy, to keep that teenager brain busy although you may notice times of regression. It is great that you have plans to up the training coming the next weeks. 

Yes we made that mistake, but currently correcting this. And specially on the walking part. He took some bad habits because walks were like "freedom walks", even on leash, and we had some pulling, and lack of attention. So we got back to basics with loose leash walking, and also fundamentals, like "leave it", and "look at me"

 

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Something else to factor in, is that between the ages of 6 to 14 months, dogs go through another fear period:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/fear-periods-8-10-weeks-6-14-months/

hummmm... thats good to know, because he had some reaction lately that came a bit from  nowhere : for example, he's starting the flee when we arrived together with my gf. I can understand the reaction because usually when we "team up", it's for stuff he doesn't like much, like brushing, washing... but we treat those part with high value, so he never fled before... and we were wondering why all of a sudden he would flee. We will also try now to "team up" for good stuff, like playing, or cool training

 

[Adrienne Farricelli]

So glad that things are progressing nicely and that you have found so many great solutions!

I love using whistles for recalls! As a matter of fact, I like to carry mine on a lanyard like a necklace.

I use the whistle for emergency recalls, and keep the regular voice recall for less urgent matters. The voice recall can also come handy in case that, for some reason, I am not carrying the whistle with me. Just like your girlfriend, I am a poor whistler, my husband always makes fun of my whistling!

[JMFS]

Sometimes I can whistle well, and other times my whistler is broken, lol. 

I love love love my silent whistle!  I bought the ACME silent whistle - the Petsmart one was far from silent.  Out of all the dogs, the cat responds the best to it, haha!  Momo would turn on a dime when I used the silent whistle, Gertie is a bit better, and when Esther gets back we'll be working on that with her, too.  It's a great tool because, unless they have very specific receptors, your neighbors won't be bothered by it.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

20 hours ago, JMFS said:

Sometimes I can whistle well, and other times my whistler is broken, lol. 

I love love love my silent whistle!  I bought the ACME silent whistle - the Petsmart one was far from silent.  Out of all the dogs, the cat responds the best to it, haha!  Momo would turn on a dime when I used the silent whistle, Gertie is a bit better, and when Esther gets back we'll be working on that with her, too.  It's a great tool because, unless they have very specific receptors, your neighbors won't be bothered by it.

LOL about the broken whistler! Funny too that your cats respond best to it!

Have you created positive associations with its sound? These whistles are often sold with zero instructions and it's easy to assume that dogs will respond to them just because the sound attracts them.

I treat them like a clicker, they are conditioned reinforcers so whistle/treat, whistle/treat, whistle/treat in the home. I then use it for a game of hide and seek in the home, with asking the dog to sits/stay down/stay while I go hiding and whistling and then praising/treating when the dog finds me. Then practice outdoors in the yard, hide and seek game, then on a long line outdoors, whistling and delivering several high value treats in a row. 

I used to get a panic attack when I would head out without having my whistle along, so I started wearing it around my neck. It made a good conversation piece too when out and about around people!

 

[JMFS]

Yes!  That's Precisely how I train it.  <3  I start with whistle / treat / whistle / treat, rinse and repeat.  I don't worry about over treating this object because I Want them to drop Everything else if they hear this.  Then I start with them in a stay and I take a few steps away.  When I blow the whistle they come, treat.  Then we up the ante by me going around the corner.  Next step is a different room.  So on and so forth.

I didn't train Monkey at all.  He figured out whistle = food by watching the dogs.  He prefers Pachelbel's Canon in D, but he'll respond to the whistle, lol.

The silent whistle is especially helpful for me with the insomnia because I'm often out with the girls at 3 or 4 in the morning and who wants to hear their neighbor hollering at that hour?  :D

The reviews for the ACME whistle I bought were complaining about how it doesn't work.  More accurately, it doesn't work to stop the neighbor's dogs from barking.  🤣

[Adrienne Farricelli]

 

35 minutes ago, JMFS said:

Yes!  That's Precisely how I train it.  ❤️ I start with whistle / treat / whistle / treat, rinse and repeat.  I don't worry about over treating this object because I Want them to drop Everything else if they hear this.  Then I start with them in a stay and I take a few steps away.  When I blow the whistle they come, treat.  Then we up the ante by me going around the corner.  Next step is a different room.  So on and so forth.

I didn't train Monkey at all.  He figured out whistle = food by watching the dogs.  He prefers Pachelbel's Canon in D, but he'll respond to the whistle, lol.

The silent whistle is especially helpful for me with the insomnia because I'm often out with the girls at 3 or 4 in the morning and who wants to hear their neighbor hollering at that hour?  😄

The reviews for the ACME whistle I bought were complaining about how it doesn't work.  More accurately, it doesn't work to stop the neighbor's dogs from barking.  🤣

😅🤣😂

[FrederykBlot]

hahaha I laughed with the whistles stories