Puppy Tantrum

[CAITLIN FITZGERALD]

Hi everyone, 

I just purchased the brain training class and am new to the forum. We're still in preschool, obviously. I have a 3 month old Australian cattle dog/Labrador mix that we just adopted about 10 days ago. She was found on the side of the road with her sister and taken to the shelter. We're in puppy hell right now... but determined to get through this. We have a 7 mo. and 11 mo. kitten as well and I've been reading the forums and courses on what we can do with that. Thank you Adrienne for the wealth of information available! I'm so excited to start working with her on impulse control and teaching her to go to her mat, etc.! She's crazy smart. We were able to teach her in the first two days to sit at the door and wait for us to invite her inside and she learned "leave it" her second day with us as well. She learned sit after just 2-3 tries! 

However, we are struggling with massive tantrums and I didn't see any posts about puppy tantrums. Now that she is comfortable with us, whenever she doesn't have our constant attention she will chew anything in sight and cry or bark - and if we ignore her, she throws a tantrum. 

I realize I should not give her attention but what do we do about the tantrums while she learns? We can't exercise her until she is vaxxed and she doesn't know how to play with anything (our previous dogs liked to fetch and just always knew how). We just have her chew things and give her kongs stuffed with kibble. But when we want to tend to the cats or go take a shower, or are in a meeting for work - she will start crying and then if we ignore her she quickly starts to bark and screech which literally send shocks up my spine. We also have a shared wall with a neighbor (we live in a duplex house so one shared wall touches all the rooms except the living room/kitchen). So ignoring her tantrums is hard to do as well because I feel bad for the neighbor. (He hasn't complained and we introduced him to her so he would know what the ruckus was but still, I want to be considerate of him). 

They happen once or twice a day and I struggle with my patience. 

And then my second question is about sleep. Keeping a sleep/activity journal has been helpful and eye-opening in realizing that she was not sleeping enough. Letting her nap instead of trying to wear her out has helped a lot. But sometimes when she wants to play with the cats, she will not sleep and then she gets cranky. Yesterday she only clocked 11.75 hours of sleep out of the 24. Her usual is around 15 hours. I can't get her to sleep any more than that. When she is wound up, I've started sitting near her and petting her (not when she is crying) and then she falls asleep but I don't want her to become dependent on us for sleep. How can I get her to sleep the full amount she needs? Is it ok to calm her down like that first? 

Thank you! 

- Caity 

 

[CAITLIN FITZGERALD]

I’ve been reading the information on counter conditioning and impulse control and frustration threshold etc and realizing those exercises will be helpful. Still would like some specific guidance but definitely relieved that we don’t need to make her cry it out!

[JMFS]

You might try looking for "extinction burst."  Puppies are highly prone to these just before crashing.  It can be a delicate balance between getting enough play and calling it quits before the tantrum occurs.

Great that you introduced her to the neighbor!  Letting him know that you're aware of her outbursts and are working on it can go a long ways towards keeping things civil.  I've always talked to my neighbors and asked them to let me know if the noise got to be too much - I had no idea if Momo was quiet or not during the day.  They all reported he was quiet as could be unless someone, or something, else made a loud noise.  He'd bark for a minute, then stop.  You could even try some humor and buy him ear plugs (I recommend Mack's silicone ear plugs, lol).

Are you crate training her?  Or do you have an area you can gate so she can be easily separated from the cats?  Having a constant stimuli within reach can perpetuate these outbursts.  I think of kids at the table with their phones and how it's often difficult for them to ignore the phones.  If the phones are not allowed at the table it's easier for them to resist.

Hang in there!  I'm one who loves dogs but can't stand their shed hair, drool, whining (the Worst - drives me nuts), and barking, lol.  Like . . . everything dog.  My husband comments Often, "how are you a dog person?!"

There's a jazz up, settle down game in the training that might be good for helping her find her "off" button.  Definitely brain games for her because she's so smart.  I have "Quiet Moments" spray from NaturVet as well as Lavender Zum Mist (it's lavender oil, water, and a carrier).  I alternate them with the girls.  When I know there's going to be a time that they're going to get wired I spray one or the other and keep things calm for about 5 - 10 minutes, then go on with the thing that's going to stir them up.

Routine is my best tool.  If I follow a routine throughout the day then everyone is on board and can settle, for the most part.  Esther is a tough nut to crack, and I don't have time like I did with Momo and Gertrude so she hasn't gotten a fair shake.  If I ever want to rock her world all I have to do is deviate from the routine.  From my observations, dogs appreciate predictability.  Poor Gertie has been Really confused the last 2 weeks because Esther chewed up the floor in her own kennel so we've been using Gertie's kennel for Esther.  Every morning Gertie tried to go into her own kennel, but there was an Esther there.  Gertie is normally Valium in doggy form, but that one small change had her turning in circles, jumping on her bed, jumping off her bed, turning in circles, bowing . . . and so on while I got her food ready.  Now that her kennel is fixed, order has been restored and mornings are calmer.

Having said all that, routine does take a bit of time to build and learn so be forgiving of her, and yourself (!) as you're forming it.  I've had to really tap into my patience with Esther and I haven't always been able to keep it.  Sometimes I still put her in her kennel when I need a break.  She's grown to accept it, though it did take some time.

That's the most recent post for extinction bursts aka tantrums.  I did a search for "extinction" and found a wealth of information.  Here's the search to help because I know you have your hands full!  :)  https://braintraining4dogs.com/forum/search/?q=extinction&quick=1

[FrederykBlot]

Hello,

bless you for the rescue !

Welcome to puppy hell, and know that it will pass :)

About the sleeping thing, with our pup, the enforced naps were "life saving". Without discovering this, we also try to wear him out, walking, training, and he would just end up more excited, and crankier than ever, until after some point we discover that naps can and should be forced.
We put him in a playpen, in a room alone with opague curtains closed. He would whine a bit at first, then crash in no time, and naps for hours. I remember to even start to worry as some times he napped like 4 hours straight.

We established some kind of routine, and as for @JMFS, routines are also game changing, because it makes things predictable for him : he wakes up,we let him live his life, then we train, then we play, then we walk, and after the walk => nap. We were so amazed the first time, when he went by himself in the pen after the walk, and settle without whining

For the whining in the pen, we used the "10 min rules" like nurses for human babies : if cries are less than 10 min, it's nothing serious, if more, we'll go check
But we crate / pen trained a lot in the beginning 

and then, between 2 or 4 hours, he would wake and whine to warn he's awake, and we'd let him out, starting a new cycle

 

I dont think this is universal for all dogs, but maybe some of this can help at some point !

 

 

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Hi Caitlin, 

Welcome to the forums, please see my observation under your bold statements:

I just purchased the brain training class and am new to the forum. We're still in preschool, obviously. I have a 3 month old Australian cattle dog/Labrador mix that we just adopted about 10 days ago. She was found on the side of the road with her sister and taken to the shelter. We're in puppy hell right now... but determined to get through this. We have a 7 mo. and 11 mo. kitten as well and I've been reading the forums and courses on what we can do with that. Thank you Adrienne for the wealth of information available! I'm so excited to start working with her on impulse control and teaching her to go to her mat, etc.! She's crazy smart. We were able to teach her in the first two days to sit at the door and wait for us to invite her inside and she learned "leave it" her second day with us as well. She learned sit after just 2-3 tries! 

It's so sad when people just dump these precious pups on the side of the road. I am glad though that this has a happy ending. Your Aussie/Lab mix is very fortunate to have found you! She is very smart to have mastered leave it and sit after 2-3 tries and that she was ready to apply that at the door waiting for you to invite her out! Kudos to you too!

However, we are struggling with massive tantrums and I didn't see any posts about puppy tantrums. Now that she is comfortable with us, whenever she doesn't have our constant attention she will chew anything in sight and cry or bark - and if we ignore her, she throws a tantrum. 

I don't have an official post about tantrums in the course, the term can mean different things depending on who you speak, but there's a read on impulse control and frustration tolerance that covers tantrums:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/impulse-control-frustration-tolerance/

"Tantrums" have also been discussed on the forums several times, as you can see you are not alone!

https://braintraining4dogs.com/forum/search/?q=tantrum&quick=1

However, there are tantrums and tantrums and their approach may vary based on the underlying cause. 

I realize I should not give her attention but what do we do about the tantrums while she learns? We can't exercise her until she is vaxxed and she doesn't know how to play with anything (our previous dogs liked to fetch and just always knew how). We just have her chew things and give her kongs stuffed with kibble

At 3 months, your pup's window of socialization is about to close, but these pups should still be granted ongoing socialization in a safe manner.

Puppy classes are a great way to allow this, although with the pandemic, these are now organized a tad bit differently. There are still though a bunch of other activities that can be added, such as car rides, just watching the world go by a window or from the porch (LAT is great game to start forming positive associations https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/university/look-at-that/) and playing dress-up where family members can wear hats, sunglasses, take turns walking with a cane, an umbrella, wearing last year's Halloween costume etc. Also, don't forget to provide tactile sensation (walking on a variety of surfaces)

It's interesting that you mention she doesn't know how to play. Have you tried tossing her kibble for her to catch? Or her chew toys? How about using a flirt pole? I would expect a pup of this age and breed to have some prey drive. Did she get a check-up from the vet just in case?

But when we want to tend to the cats or go take a shower, or are in a meeting for work - she will start crying and then if we ignore her she quickly starts to bark and screech which literally send shocks up my spine. We also have a shared wall with a neighbor (we live in a duplex house so one shared wall touches all the rooms except the living room/kitchen). So ignoring her tantrums is hard to do as well because I feel bad for the neighbor. (He hasn't complained and we introduced him to her so he would know what the ruckus was but still, I want to be considerate of him). They happen once or twice a day and I struggle with my patience. 

I hear you! I am familiar with those ear-piercing screeches that make your spine chill. Actually, interestingly, there is a reason why we exhibit such a visceral reaction to certain ear-splitting sounds. Researchers have found that  our response to the sounds of a crying baby or a human scream is ultimately as well tied to survival. This because these frequencies may prompt us to rescue a crying infant sooner, improving the baby's chances for survival. In a similar fashion, hearing a puppy vocalize may prompt in us similar alarm responses  that make us want to step in and make it stop. 

Most likely, this goes both ways. Puppies instinctively screech as a survival mechanism. Being an altricial species, dogs as young puppies are very vulnerable, and being left alone is a scary experience. Those ear-piercing vocalizations are meant to attract mother dog and attend to her puppies. Most likely, your pup's screeching is also what may have grabbed the attention of humans by the side of the road so this instinctive screeching has been ulteriorly reinforced. 

Now, if this is induced by anxiety, we need to tread with caution, taking baby steps and gradually helping these pups learn to be less dependent on us. However, what to do though in the meanwhile considering that this is not an overnight process.

This is a good question, also because it may seem like if we use one approach or another we are a bit stuck between a rock and a hard place. 

If we give the puppy attention in these cases, we may risk that, over time, she may eventually learn that her behavior works in getting what she wants, but ignoring would trigger an extinction burst (Jennifer already pointed you to some sources that discuss this term, but we'll cover more about that below) and the occasional spontaneous recovery-not great if you have neighbors who share a wall.

Also, if this is triggered by anxiety, more and more behavior professionals are concerned that,  the more a puppy experiences the trauma of being left alone and acts panicky, the sooner panic will set in next time and may even predispose to separation anxiety. 

So in these cases, it may be best doing everything you can to prevent the excessive crying from occurring in the first place. If you puppy has a tantrum at a certain time of the day or in a specific situation, you have a big advantage: predictability. If you can say, "my puppy misbehaves when....." or "my puppy misbehaves every time he sees xyz..." you have more control over the situation because you know when or in what context the undesirable behavior presents and can take steps to tackle it. 

In your case, it sounds like this happens once or twice a day when you tend to the cats, go take a shower or are in a meeting for work. Since you mentioned "we" it may therefore help if some other family member can stick with the puppy while doing these anxiety-inducing things. The goal here is to prevent rehearsal of the problematic behavior (the more dogs engage in certain behaviors the more they become habit-forming), protecting your relationship with your neighbor, and  preventing full intensity manifestations while we take steps to ameliorate the pup's ability to become more independent. 

Exercises that help foster independence can be found here:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/exercises-to-prevent-separation-anxiety-in-puppies/

We want to take baby steps, and progress steadily and gradually working at the pup's pace. For instance, while you take a shower, a family member can stay with the pup, but he or she can occasionally walk around the room with very brief instances of being out of sight, always working at a level that doesn't induce anxiety-basically under threshold, more on this here:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/threshold-levels/

There are also calming aids that can help such as:

DAP diffusers,-Adaptil offers a variety of products meant to help new puppies adapt to their new homes. Its products are made with synthetic pheromones which mimic the pheromones mother dogs produce to sooth their puppies when they're nursing.

Calming music for dogs. "Through a dog's ear" is music specifically crafted for dogs, but you can find hours of music for dogs for free on YouTube.

Snuggle Puppy Behavior Aid This may seem like a simple stuffed animal, but it was purposely crafted for lonely pups. It emanates warmth and also mimics a heart beat to help sooth distressed puppies. Sometimes leaving a shirt with our smell can help soothe the pups as well and covering the crate with a blanket may help some (not all). 

Fortunately, as puppies mature, they tend to become more independent, although we may see some challenges with some pups like those who were removed from the litter too early or puppies who  who where were never left home alone or puppies with early illness. Fearful puppies may also be predisposed because they never get to learn independence and grow to be overly dependent on their caretakers. And then of course, there are other predisposing factors to consider such as the impact of change, where an owner that was always home starts working back in the office (a common scenario with the pandemic), vacations etc. 

Something as mentioned that may occur when we give attention to puppies crying is that puppies may learn to eventually whine/cry (add any other undesirable behavior) for attention.  Often times, we fail to give attention to our dogs when they are behaving, but immediately give them attention the moment they misbehave, isn't that something?

Tackling puppies misbehaving for attention is not an easy task. It requires a different approach than a dog crying for anxiety. You need to firstly evaluate whether your puppy is crying because of a truly impellent physiological need (thirsty, hungry, tired, too hot, too cold, under-exercised, needing to be taken out to go potty) and once you have ruled that out, your next step may be ignoring unwanted behaviors. 

This is the most difficult part because you need to ignore these behaviors totally, no looking, no talking, no scolding, no pushing, no making eye contact. No attention at all, even attention of the negative type. You would therefore have to pretend as if your pup isn't there, waiting for her to give up engaging in the undesirable behavior. 

As one persists in not providing attention, it's important to be aware of a particular phenomenon known as an "extinction burst." In simple words, an extinction burst takes place when you have provided your dog with attention and then suddenly stop providing it. The behavior will typically intensify or the dog may try new behaviors in hopes of getting attention again. If you endure this temporary intensification, you will eventually succeed.

If you give in though and dole just about any form of attention, you will be back to square one, or may have even regressed, as you have reinforced persistence. So yes, expect behaviors to get worse before getting better, but take extinction bursts as a sign that whatever you are doing is working!

Often, puppies may rebel to being confined, often under the form of strong protesting in the form of barking and whining along with chewing the bars when crated or enclosed in a play pen. A well-meaning concerned owner may inadvertently reinforce this behavior by either attending to the puppy or, releasing the puppy from his confinement. This paves the path to a strong history of reinforcement since the puppy learns how his behavior works in granting him the freedom.

However, it's important to rule out anxiety. There's a difference in the body language/ vocalizations of a puppy crying simply because of being cranky  and one crying from full-mode anxiety panic. 

 Ideally, breeders should get puppies used to being confined when in their care, but it's unfortunate that many do not. If not, we can help pups get used to confinement gradually, here is a guide: https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/video-archive/love-the-crate/ This is the ideal approach, in the case of puppies crying in the crate because they're not used to being confined. Shoving a puppy who was never crate trained in a crate and letting him/her cry will only make matters worse, as that's flooding rather than gradual desensitization/counterconditioning.  

Having said that, back to pups just rebelling to being closed and not being anxious, ignoring the behavior (and it's accompanying extinction bursts) in this case can be effective in reducing this type of behavior. The puppy should soon learn that his crate is only opened when he has been quiet for some time. Special care is therefore needed in avoiding falling into the extinction burst trap or the occasional spontaneous recovery.

For sake of comparison, Williams (1959) reported the case of a “tyrant-like tantrum behavior” expressed by a 2-year-old toddler every time it was time to go to bed. The family ignoring the behavior worked well, leading to several tantrum-free nights, until one night when the child exhibited an episode of tantrum behavior (spontaneous recovery) while an aunt was watching him and she attended to him.

This single reinforcing event was sufficient to cause the tantrum behavior to recover, requiring another series of extinction trials, and finally the behavior was fully extinguished.

Of course, this may not be very feasible in the case of neighbors sharing a wall, but it can be doable if we strategically coordinate our training with the neighbor keeping us informed when he'll be on vacation or on an extended business trip for some time so we can take advantage and make most of that time.

Of course, one must factor in, that the longer one has reinforced attention-seeking behaviors, the longer it will take to extinguish and this can a pain-staking process, which is why this is far better being tackled earlier rather than later, ideally taking as many preventive steps as possible. 

And then my second question is about sleep. Keeping a sleep/activity journal has been helpful and eye-opening in realizing that she was not sleeping enough. Letting her nap instead of trying to wear her out has helped a lot. But sometimes when she wants to play with the cats, she will not sleep and then she gets cranky. Yesterday she only clocked 11.75 hours of sleep out of the 24. Her usual is around 15 hours. I can't get her to sleep any more than that. When she is wound up, I've started sitting near her and petting her (not when she is crying) and then she falls asleep but I don't want her to become dependent on us for sleep. How can I get her to sleep the full amount she needs? Is it ok to calm her down like that first? 

Thank you! 

- Caity 

Puppies may also throw what looks like a tantrum when they are cranky and in dire need for a nap and they're still overstimulated. Expect crankiness when pups start misbehaving and therefore whine, bark, chew, bite or hump more. 

"This can be equated to kids spending all day at an amusement park and then are unable to sleep because they are so wound up and cranky from all the excitement," says Nan Arthur in her book Chill Out Fido.

While young puppies are balls of energy, but their energy drains very fast and they need sleep to recuperate. It is estimated that young puppies require around eighteen to twenty hours for sleep per day. This may sound a whole lot, but it makes sense since puppies do most of their growing while sleeping!

So it sounds like your pup needs her quiet spot- that is, definitely away from the cats. Sticking to a routine can help provide structure and reassurance. You can help a cranky puppy fall asleep by reducing stimulation and taking the following steps:

-Bring your puppy to a quiet place where they usually sleep (crate, exercise pen). 

-Remove access to overly stimulating toys, other puppies/pets or children.

-Encourage calming activities by offering a chew toy or edible chew to gnaw on top of a mat/ dog bed (these can act as pacifiers).

-Close all curtains and blinds (or place a blanket over the crate).

-Play calming music (like Through a Dog's Ear) 

-For young puppies, provide a shirt that smells like you or a soothing toy like 

-Consider that pups may get more cranky when they are teething 

Teaching your pup to lie on a mat is also great and I see that you are already considering that. 

I hope this helps!

Happy training!

[CAITLIN FITZGERALD]

On 3/29/2022 at 10:29 PM, JMFS said:

You might try looking for "extinction burst."  Puppies are highly prone to these just before crashing.  It can be a delicate balance between getting enough play and calling it quits before the tantrum occurs.

Hang in there!  I'm one who loves dogs but can't stand their shed hair, drool, whining (the Worst - drives me nuts), and barking, lol.  Like . . . everything dog.  My husband comments Often, "how are you a dog person?!"

There's a jazz up, settle down game in the training that might be good for helping her find her "off" button.  Definitely brain games for her because she's so smart.  I have "Quiet Moments" spray from NaturVet as well as Lavender Zum Mist (it's lavender oil, water, and a carrier).  .

That's the most recent post for extinction bursts aka tantrums.  I did a search for "extinction" and found a wealth of information.  Here's the search to help because I know you have your hands full!  🙂  https://braintraining4dogs.com/forum/search/?q=extinction&quick=1

Thank you so much for your thoughtful response. I read it yesterday morning but didn't get a chance to get online and respond. But it helped. I had not heard of the extinction burst. I'm also going to look for the jazz up settle down game.  We have the cats separated so that she is in the living room/kitchen/yard and they are in the rest of the house. 

I am a dog and cat person completely but definitely don't love the hair, drool, or cleaning the litter box so I get that! 🙂 Thanks for the kind words too. It's been so hard and I'm burned out and tired. We'll get through it eventually. I just ordered some of the quiet moments chews! 

[CAITLIN FITZGERALD]

On 3/30/2022 at 6:27 AM, FrederykBlot said:

Hello,

bless you for the rescue !

Welcome to puppy hell, and know that it will pass 🙂

About the sleeping thing, with our pup, the enforced naps were "life saving". Without discovering this, we also try to wear him out, walking, training, and he would just end up more excited, and crankier than ever, until after some point we discover that naps can and should be forced.
We put him in a playpen, in a room alone with opague curtains closed. He would whine a bit at first, then crash in no time, and naps for hours. I remember to even start to worry as some times he napped like 4 hours straight.

We established some kind of routine, and as for @JMFS, routines are also game changing, because it makes things predictable for him : he wakes up,we let him live his life, then we train, then we play, then we walk, and after the walk => nap. We were so amazed the first time, when he went by himself in the pen after the walk, and settle without whining

For the whining in the pen, we used the "10 min rules" like nurses for human babies : if cries are less than 10 min, it's nothing serious, if more, we'll go check
But we crate / pen trained a lot in the beginning 

and then, between 2 or 4 hours, he would wake and whine to warn he's awake, and we'd let him out, starting a new cycle

 

I dont think this is universal for all dogs, but maybe some of this can help at some point !

 

 

Thank you so much! I got her to back up to 15 hours yesterday and am aiming for the same today. I am looking into a play pen or trying crating her and we'll try some of these things once she is better with being left alone. Sleep is the best time - I wish I could get her to sleep for 20 hours of the day... that would be way easier on us!

[CAITLIN FITZGERALD]

20 hours ago, Adrienne Farricelli said:

 

 

Hi Adrienne! 

Thank you for all of this information. 

At 3 months, your pup's window of socialization is about to close, but these pups should still be granted ongoing socialization in a safe manner.

Yes, we have been taking her on car rides. We took her to my parent's house for a play date with their dog but he is very old and was not interested - he just went to sleep and she got bored with him. Yesterday we arranged a play date with an older but not as old Labrador. He played with her a little bit but mostly they just chilled together and I am delighted because I'd rather her learn from a mature dog than another wild puppy. We're reaching out to anyone we can to schedule other play dates but it's been hard to coordinate our schedules. We're trying! I only found one puppy school that allows unvaccinated puppies and they were booked for 6 months so we're stuck with finding play dates and trying to get creative on our own. Thanks for letting me know to have her walk on other types of surfaces. We've had a few people come by our house for other reasons and she was great with them. She is submission peeing though and I saw you had a page on that so I'll read up on that. We're really worried about missing the window for socialization because we want to be able to take her everywhere with us and have her be fearless. I'll see if I can have people come by with costumes too.

It's interesting that you mention she doesn't know how to play. Have you tried tossing her kibble for her to catch? Or her chew toys? How about using a flirt pole? I would expect a pup of this age and breed to have some prey drive. Did she get a check-up from the vet just in case?

When we get her to the vet on Monday, I will ask her to check this. She chases crickets and flying bugs outside and she wants to chase the cats. She obsesses like a herding dog. I've tried throwing all kinds of things at her and she won't catch them though. It's so weird as our last dog did not need to be taught how to play. 

Most likely, your pup's screeching is also what may have grabbed the attention of humans by the side of the road so this instinctive screeching has been ulteriorly reinforced. 

That is so interesting! She sometimes does a single screech when she wants our attention. 

It seems like each day we make good strides with some things and then something new comes up. Yesterday we had some great sessions where the cats sat on one side of the gate (in the hallway) and she sat in the living room and we got her to "leave it" and "look at me". This lasted about 10 minutes and then I didn't want to burn her out. We also did that this morning for about 5 minutes, twice. The cats are dying to play with her and we have to give them treats and pet them to stop them from jumping the fence to get to her because then she chases them and they get scared. It feels like we're making baby steps with that but then I noticed that she is barking more outside which she never did before and now she is chewing everything in the house like the curtains, furniture, rugs, etc. We've moved a lot of the throw rugs out of reach, our shoes and things like that - but I don't want to take down the curtains and I used anti-chew spray on the furniture but she doesn't seem to care. We had success keeping her busy with the kong for two days but then she got bored with the kibble/peanut butter plug (puppy pb not human) and so I put wet food inside with it and then she went and buried it in the back yard and we can't find it. When we give her high value treats like bully sticks or pig ears she wants to bury them instead of eat them, or she gets really wired and hyper. It feels like any solution is not long-lasting. 

This is a good question, also because it may seem like if we use one approach or another we are a bit stuck between a rock and a hard place. 

If we give the puppy attention in these cases, we may risk that, over time, she may eventually learn that her behavior works in getting what she wants, but ignoring would trigger an extinction burst (Jennifer already pointed you to some sources that discuss this term, but we'll cover more about that below) and the occasional spontaneous recovery-not great if you have neighbors who share a wall.

This helps and I'm going to read all your material on extinction bursts. Yesterday I had a personal meltdown when I was trying to focus on a meeting for work (early in the morning) and she was wild and the cats were scratching to come into the living room and she was obsessing on them. But then I read the other responses to this post and started doing the airplane game (she aced it immediately) and separation anxiety games (did pretty well) and noticing that her behavior was attention-seeking so that helped me to be patient. Now things are much easier with her HOWEVER, I'm worried that I am reinforcing it. She is extremely well behaved when we give her our whole attention. But if we do other things, she starts chewing the furniture, the two rugs we have down (all the rest we put away until she's older), and this morning she even started chewing on my arm. I have given her every type of toy possible and we froze an old dish towel and had her chew that in case it's related to teething. They help her but not when she wants attention. If I sit near her on the floor, she is an angel. I don't have to pay full attention to her but just sit nearby. But obviously, I don't want her to depend on me not to mention that obviously I cannot do this all the time. I have a full time job and while I am home a lot - I do have a lot of other stuff in my life that have gone to the back burner since we got her. 

Tackling puppies misbehaving for attention is not an easy task. It requires a different approach than a dog crying for anxiety. You need to firstly evaluate whether your puppy is crying because of a truly impellent physiological need (thirsty, hungry, tired, too hot, too cold, under-exercised, needing to be taken out to go potty) and once you have ruled that out, your next step may be ignoring unwanted behaviors. 

This is the most difficult part because you need to ignore these behaviors totally, no looking, no talking, no scolding, no pushing, no making eye contact. No attention at all, even attention of the negative type. You would therefore have to pretend as if your pup isn't there, waiting for her to give up engaging in the undesirable behavior. 

I've been rewarding her with petting and verbal praise when she chews on her toys by herself (without me sitting nearby) but that is never for long. When she starts chewing on everything in sight, shouldn't we be correcting her so she stops doing it? How do I find the balance between not letting her be a wild dog who destroys the house and reinforcing her attention seeking? 

When she cries, I look out of the corner of my eye to make sure it's not a physical injury and ignoring it. The little whimpers are reducing and we have not had a tantrum since Tuesday evening. I feel like she knows we don't want her jumping on the furniture or chewing it - if we ignore it for a few days, will she stop dong it for attention or will she think she is allowed to? I don't want to confuse her about "the rules" either. 

I have been trying to stimulate her with training (and we tried to teach her to "find it" but that didn't go well at all). So when she's acting calm, I'll sit with her and train her and pet her. I will stay on the floor while she chews alone and then go back to my desk. She'll chew on her many toys for a while and then about 10 minutes later, she gets bored and wants attention. Without fetch or going on walks, I don't know what to do without overwhelming her with more training. We go outside to the backyard and she runs around there but never enough to do anything. I feel like my whole day is stopping her from chewing on things she should not. 

However, it's important to rule out anxiety. There's a difference in the body language/ vocalizations of a puppy crying simply because of being cranky  and one crying from full-mode anxiety panic. 

I suspect she does get anxious but I cannot figure out what triggers it yet. She definitely has no frustration tolerance - when she wants to see the cats, she obsesses. Like I said, leave it and look at me is definitely helping and I think she's going to desensitize at some point but it's hard to tell what is frustration vs anxiety. The car gives her anxiety but we're trying to push through it with some car rides. When she cries, we ignore it and then when she stops, my fiancé pets her and rewards her. However, the last car ride resulted in almost nonstop screeches that made my spine literally jump. We'll try ear plugs for the next drive and maybe shorten the rides. I did just order some calming chew supplements and we'll see if that helps. 

Of course, one must factor in, that the longer one has reinforced attention-seeking behaviors, the longer it will take to extinguish and this can a pain-staking process, which is why this is far better being tackled earlier rather than later, ideally taking as many preventive steps as possible. 

I definitely want to get this tamped down and resolved ASAP before she gets any habits! 

While young puppies are balls of energy, but their energy drains very fast and they need sleep to recuperate. It is estimated that young puppies require around eighteen to twenty hours for sleep per day. This may sound a whole lot, but it makes sense since puppies do most of their growing while sleeping!

So it sounds like your pup needs her quiet spot- that is, definitely away from the cats. Sticking to a routine can help provide structure and reassurance. You can help a cranky puppy fall asleep by reducing stimulation and taking the following steps:

We do keep the cats in the other half of the house almost all the time. At night, we let them roam and she goes in the bedroom with us. But we have not crated her - we don't have space for a crate. Yesterday I got her back up to 15 hours of sleep in the 24 hours but I can't seem to get her to sleep beyond that. Do you think it is important we crate train her? I realize everyone says it's great and helpful but I read about Aussies that they can't handle a crate for long because of their energy. I'm open to figuring out how to make it work if it will be life-changing but we would have to rearrange our furniture to keep a large crate and I would rather not. 

We did try the puppy music youtube station yesterday and I think that helped her sleep longer! 

Oh and today I have been able to leave her alone for a few minutes at a time but only if she is calm. She sits or lays in the living room and stares at the door waiting for me. I praise her when I come back. I think the peekaboo game helped yesterday. But when she was hyper this morning, it was not going to happen. I gave her a peanut butter chew stick when I had to leave her alone for 2 minutes and she was fine with that. Seems leaving her alone is about timing. 

 

Thank you for all the help. I am so burned out. My fiance and I take turns watching her but since he works in the office (side of the house with the cats) and my work station is in the living room, most of the puppy time has been on me. After work, we can take turns but we're both exhausted and sick of it. We love her and know it will get better some day but anything we can do to make this happen faster will help our sanity. 

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Hi Adrienne! 

Yes, we have been taking her on car rides. We took her to my parent's house for a play date with their dog but he is very old and was not interested - he just went to sleep and she got bored with him. Yesterday we arranged a play date with an older but not as old Labrador. He played with her a little bit but mostly they just chilled together and I am delighted because I'd rather her learn from a mature dog than another wild puppy. We're reaching out to anyone we can to schedule other play dates but it's been hard to coordinate our schedules. We're trying! I only found one puppy school that allows unvaccinated puppies and they were booked for 6 months so we're stuck with finding play dates and trying to get creative on our own. Thanks for letting me know to have her walk on other types of surfaces. We've had a few people come by our house for other reasons and she was great with them. She is submission peeing though and I saw you had a page on that so I'll read up on that. We're really worried about missing the window for socialization because we want to be able to take her everywhere with us and have her be fearless. I'll see if I can have people come by with costumes too.

That's great, the socialization period is so important! Most puppy classes should accept puppies as long as they appear healthy and have received at least one shot. There should be an emphasis on promptly removing any waste and properly sanitizing the quarters where the classes are held so to help prevent any spread of infectious diseases. 

Now there are puppy classes and puppy classes. The main goal shouldn't be focusing only on obedience. Precision obedience can always come later, it's with socialization that the time is ticking!

The best classes are run by dog trainers who put an emphasis on socializing and getting pups used to things and situations they'll encounter in life, things like getting the pup used to being handled, social skills, play with other pups to help refine their bite inhibition, although the play must be moderated always ensuring the pups are having a good time (not being bullied or becoming too overstimulated). Play needs breaks every now and then, especially if the pups aren't engaging in natural pauses. 

With adult dogs, we need to be careful and a bit picky as not all have the patience to deal with puppies. Some can be great teachers, telling the pups in a firm, non-confrontational way when the pup has become too pushy, but others may be too harsh or even aggressive. Loose. relaxed body languages is good, stiff and tense is not.
                                          
It cannot be emphasized enough the importance of this stage. It's important to create positive associations as much as possible, always monitoring the pup's reactions  and ensuring a positive experience.

You can read more about this stage from AVSAB's socialization position statement:
https://avsab.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Puppy_Socialization_Position_Statement_Download_-_10-3-14.pdf

When we get her to the vet on Monday, I will ask her to check this. She chases crickets and flying bugs outside and she wants to chase the cats. She obsesses like a herding dog. I've tried throwing all kinds of things at her and she won't catch them though. It's so weird as our last dog did not need to be taught how to play. 

OK, now that sound more like a healthy pup with normal prey drive! Does she chase a ball, but won't catch it meaning that she won't carry it or bring it back to you? There have been studies showing how retrieving often is more challenging to train if pups weren't introduced to the game early on. I find it a bit odd if she chases bugs and wants to chase the cats but won't chase after a ball. 

That is so interesting! She sometimes does a single screech when she wants our attention. It seems like each day we make good strides with some things and then something new comes up. Yesterday we had some great sessions where the cats sat on one side of the gate (in the hallway) and she sat in the living room and we got her to "leave it" and "look at me". This lasted about 10 minutes and then I didn't want to burn her out. 

That is great that you were able to get her attention for that long despite those strong distractions. Great observation in being concerned about carrying out the training for too long! Brief sessions work best with these pups who have shorter attention spans. 

We also did that this morning for about 5 minutes, twice. The cats are dying to play with her and we have to give them treats and pet them to stop them from jumping the fence to get to her because then she chases them and they get scared. It feels like we're making baby steps with that but then I noticed that she is barking more outside which she never did before and now she is chewing everything in the house like the curtains, furniture, rugs, etc. We've moved a lot of the throw rugs out of reach, our shoes and things like that - but I don't want to take down the curtains and I used anti-chew spray on the furniture but she doesn't seem to care.

It sounds like she is overcoming a possible "honeymoon period" and is now showing more normal puppy-like behaviors. 

If she is super mouthy, you can try putting mouthing things on cue by training "take" https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/obedience-101/take-leave-it/ as you move around a tug toy and teaching to engage in a lively and exciting game of tug.

This gives an outlet for the need to mouth/tug. Once you get a reliable response, you can build on this and use it as an interrupter cue saying "leave it" ideally the moment you notice she's going for the curtains (rather than later once she's actively tugging on them) and redirect to the tug toy. Make sure to train a good "drop it" as well.  https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/obedience-101/drop-it/

This provides the advantage of providing an outlet while also engaging the puppy with you. Initially use a longer tug toy so that her teeth aren't too close to your hands. As she gains better bite inhibition,https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/bite-inhibition-games/ you can then use a shorter one. With the tug toy, you don’t just give the toy though - you use it to actively engage in play with her. You can keep the tug toy readily available so that she can be easily redirected at a moment's notice. 

Alternatively, flirt poles work with this as well. Redirect to the flirt pole and teach her to leave, drop, or and then wait for a ’take it!’ cue to restart the game. However, flirt poles are bulkier and a little more challenging to carry around compared to a tug toy.

These methods typically works fairly quickly and if it doesn't, the persist tugging and chewing can be an indicator to increase this pup's mental enrichment to meet their needs for 'mental work' which is often a great need for terriers and herding breeds. 

A Warning For smarty Pants Dogs: To prevent a possible behavior chain (dog who get a kick out of entertaining themselves by grabbing/tugging on things to get a response, adding in some 'work' when they do that can help.

For instance, the moment you notice she's heading for the curtains, you can say "leave it" and then ask for a sit and eye contact, and then reward with a game of tug.

Another option is to simply redirect once again *before* your pup is actually tugging at the curtains/ chewing the prohibited item.

And another option is to add some time, like ask her to drop it, then ask her for eye contact for 5 to 10 seconds, and then reward her with a food treat when she is looking at you. This pattern will encourage her to look to you for instructions, while not encouraging her to mouth/steal objects to get attention.

These methods work well for when we can actively supervise and have time to train, when this is not possible, antecedent arrangement (that is, management) is your best friend.

Keep all items out of reach as much as you can. This extra environmental support (with poor chew choices out of reach and good chew choices present) along with your praise when she makes good choices is key. And if despite out management she still manages to grab something she's not supposed to have, redirect but then remove the object so it's no longer tempting her. 

Now with the curtains, I understand it would be a pain to remove them. And yes, some dogs care less about taste deterrents. However at some young puppy stages, it may not be worth the mental effort to try to teach to leave tempting things alone (as they developmentally don't get it yet) and most pups grow out of it anyway eventually, so maybe you can find a midway solution such as either:

1) keeping her in a play pen with desirable toys when you can't supervise her, or

2) maybe use a play pen to surround the curtains so access to them is automatically denied. This is also helpful for safety considering that the curtain pulls can cause strangulation.  

We had success keeping her busy with the kong for two days but then she got bored with the kibble/peanut butter plug (puppy pb not human) and so I put wet food inside with it and then she went and buried it in the back yard and we can't find it. When we give her high value treats like bully sticks or pig ears she wants to bury them instead of eat them, or she gets really wired and hyper. It feels like any solution is not long-lasting. 

Often, when they get bored, it's because it's too difficult of a puzzle for them. Maybe try with a Kong Wobbler with kibble in it? The food will be released more easily and it's a fun game too! 

For the burying, if you prevent her from going to the backyard, will she eventually settle and eat the Kong/chews? Without access to the yard, she may not feel compelled to bury them outside. Make sure she has a quiet place where she doesn't feel threatened/bothered by curious cats. Some dogs bury their goodies to eat them later away from other nosy pets. 

Now things are much easier with her HOWEVER, I'm worried that I am reinforcing it. She is extremely well behaved when we give her our whole attention. But if we do other things, she starts chewing the furniture, the two rugs we have down (all the rest we put away until she's older), and this morning she even started chewing on my arm. 

This can be attention-seeking behavior, but there also may likely be other dynamics may be at play. For instance, if we get upset/frustrated with our pups when they chew things etc. they may learn that when we are watching they must restrain themselves. However, the moment we look away or go into another room, they may perceive that as the green light to go and chew things. This because they associate our supervision/presence with being corrected and our lack of that as an "all clear."

So the options when we cannot supervise are 1) keep her in a confined area with only legit-safe chew items 2) strip a designated room/area to the bare basics so that she can only make good choices (even with this though pups may still find unimaginable things to chew on). 

I have given her every type of toy possible and we froze an old dish towel and had her chew that in case it's related to teething. They help her but not when she wants attention. If I sit near her on the floor, she is an angel. I don't have to pay full attention to her but just sit nearby. But obviously, I don't want her to depend on me not to mention that obviously I cannot do this all the time. I have a full time job and while I am home a lot - I do have a lot of other stuff in my life that have gone to the back burner since we got her. 

I've been rewarding her with petting and verbal praise when she chews on her toys by herself (without me sitting nearby) but that is never for long. When she starts chewing on everything in sight, shouldn't we be correcting her so she stops doing it? How do I find the balance between not letting her be a wild dog who destroys the house and reinforcing her attention seeking? 

When she cries, I look out of the corner of my eye to make sure it's not a physical injury and ignoring it. The little whimpers are reducing and we have not had a tantrum since Tuesday evening. I feel like she knows we don't want her jumping on the furniture or chewing it - if we ignore it for a few days, will she stop dong it for attention or will she think she is allowed to? I don't want to confuse her about "the rules" either. 

I have been trying to stimulate her with training (and we tried to teach her to "find it" but that didn't go well at all). So when she's acting calm, I'll sit with her and train her and pet her. I will stay on the floor while she chews alone and then go back to my desk. She'll chew on her many toys for a while and then about 10 minutes later, she gets bored and wants attention. Without fetch or going on walks, I don't know what to do without overwhelming her with more training. We go outside to the backyard and she runs around there but never enough to do anything. I feel like my whole day is stopping her from chewing on things she should not. 

I suspect she does get anxious but I cannot figure out what triggers it yet. She definitely has no frustration tolerance - when she wants to see the cats, she obsesses. Like I said, leave it and look at me is definitely helping and I think she's going to desensitize at some point but it's hard to tell what is frustration vs anxiety. The car gives her anxiety but we're trying to push through it with some car rides. When she cries, we ignore it and then when she stops, my fiancé pets her and rewards her. However, the last car ride resulted in almost nonstop screeches that made my spine literally jump. We'll try ear plugs for the next drive and maybe shorten the rides. I did just order some calming chew supplements and we'll see if that helps.  I definitely want to get this tamped down and resolved ASAP before she gets any habits! 

We do keep the cats in the other half of the house almost all the time. At night, we let them roam and she goes in the bedroom with us. But we have not crated her - we don't have space for a crate. Yesterday I got her back up to 15 hours of sleep in the 24 hours but I can't seem to get her to sleep beyond that. Do you think it is important we crate train her? I realize everyone says it's great and helpful but I read about Aussies that they can't handle a crate for long because of their energy. I'm open to figuring out how to make it work if it will be life-changing but we would have to rearrange our furniture to keep a large crate and I would rather not. We did try the puppy music youtube station yesterday and I think that helped her sleep longer! 

At 3 months, it's too early to attain impulse control and frustration tolerance at a level that we may desire. This takes time just as it happens with children. Think toddlers during their terrible twos and threes. We can establish though some good habits from an early age: https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/impulse-control-frustration-tolerance/

Puppies need lots of contact when they are exposed to a new environment. Crying and whining is often stress/ anxiety/ behavior so it's important recognizing a cry that is: "yikes, please get me out of hear! or 'I am scared of sleeping because you may disappear, I am too scared to be alone!" from "I want more attention get me out of here/give me something to do". 

Some ways to discern these are the type of vocalizations emitted and the accompanying body language. Here are some signs of stress in dogs: https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/signs-fear-stress-dogs/

Vocalization due to stress requires a different intervention than vocalizations due to a pup looking for attention. With anxiety of being alone, one needs to gradually transition to building independence, different sleeping arrangements in a planned structured way. If the pup shows signs of being stressed then you need to slow down the transition plan, ensuring each stage is positive, done well and at the pups pace. A common mistake is progressing too quickly and expecting too much of young pups. 

It sounds like though based on the behaviors you mention, chewing, tugging on stuff etc. she's just acting like a normal puppy who is exploring the world with her mouth. This is rather normal, and can be tackled through redirection and antecedent arrangement as discussed before. 

You mention you are not using a crate at this time, if so, where is she sleeping? I personally feel crates can help on many levels, but we need to introduce them very gradually starting with it open and making many great things happen in it. 

Oh and today I have been able to leave her alone for a few minutes at a time but only if she is calm. She sits or lays in the living room and stares at the door waiting for me. I praise her when I come back. I think the peekaboo game helped yesterday. But when she was hyper this morning, it was not going to happen. I gave her a peanut butter chew stick when I had to leave her alone for 2 minutes and she was fine with that. Seems leaving her alone is about timing. 

Thank you for all the help. I am so burned out. My fiance and I take turns watching her but since he works in the office (side of the house with the cats) and my work station is in the living room, most of the puppy time has been on me. After work, we can take turns but we're both exhausted and sick of it. We love her and know it will get better some day but anything we can do to make this happen faster will help our sanity. 

That's great that you are seeing signs of progress! Baby steps. When hyper it is more difficult because she's over threshold. https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/threshold-levels/

In the mornings especially, puppies may struggle with us being away, because they have been separated from us already during sleep and they are super excited to see us. It helps to practice when they are in a calmer state.

 If your work is flexible, strategically coordinating your work with your pup's sleeping times may be helpful in giving you some respite. This is what I generally do when I come answer questions here and do other online work. I have my computer on and ready so I tiptoe there when the dogs I foster or train are ready to snooze. It may feel like our lives revolve around dogs initially, but then as they learn to relax/behave better around the house more and more, we see more and more stretches of quiet times. 

[CAITLIN FITZGERALD]

@Adrienne Farricelli Thank you! I've shared all of this information with my fiancé and we're reading the links and applying everything. We also ordered a thundershirt after I saw one of the pages you shared. We finally found a puppy class and she is enrolled for tomorrow! Also, good news: I tried jazz up, settle down and she learned it on the third round and is already nailing it. There is light at the end of the tunnel thanks to your guidance. I sincerely and thoroughly appreciate your posts and the amount of knowledge/details that you put into the responses. You and the other members of this community who responded to my OP have really helped us to get on track. I think we've got a great dog and once she gets out of the puppy stage, she'll be a wonderful companion. 

OH - one more question: At night, when we go to bed (we have her sleep in a dog bed, which she is good about doing. We close the door to the bedroom so the cats can roam around the rest of the house and we stuck a gate at the door so no cat paws can pop out from under the door). If she doesn't see the cats before we take her in the room, she can calm down in about 15-20 minutes and fall asleep on either the floor or the dog bed. However, if she needs to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night, we have to completely calm her down again before we can go back to bed (after we take her out). As long as the cats don't come crying for attention at the same time, we can redirect her to play with her toys calmly. If that doesn't work, we just rub her belly or ears until she relaxes enough that we can get into bed. If we don't, she will chew on her bed, cry until it escalates into a tantrum, or paw at the door at the cats. Is this reinforcing anything bad or is that alright? I suppose this is where a crate would be helpful, but even if we get a crate, she will have to learn to use it and I don't know what to do, especially if it is 3 AM and I just want to go back to bed. 

Thank you. 

[Adrienne Farricelli]

OH - one more question: At night, when we go to bed (we have her sleep in a dog bed, which she is good about doing. We close the door to the bedroom so the cats can roam around the rest of the house and we stuck a gate at the door so no cat paws can pop out from under the door). If she doesn't see the cats before we take her in the room, she can calm down in about 15-20 minutes and fall asleep on either the floor or the dog bed. However, if she needs to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night, we have to completely calm her down again before we can go back to bed (after we take her out). As long as the cats don't come crying for attention at the same time, we can redirect her to play with her toys calmly. If that doesn't work, we just rub her belly or ears until she relaxes enough that we can get into bed. If we don't, she will chew on her bed, cry until it escalates into a tantrum, or paw at the door at the cats. Is this reinforcing anything bad or is that alright? I suppose this is where a crate would be helpful, but even if we get a crate, she will have to learn to use it and I don't know what to do, especially if it is 3 AM and I just want to go back to bed. 

I hear you, this is a common problem. I have encountered this issue personally several times, not with the cats, but littermates or foster pups that after being taken out together, or seeing my other dogs, they got excited and wanted to interact with them. It helped to make the potty trip as calm and matter-of-fact as possible, ideally on leash so that the pup doesn't start playing around, and then back to bed.

If petting her gets her to relax, to the point of getting her to sleep,  I don't see any imminent harm in doing that. She's still very young,  however, we want her to  also learn to self-soothe. So it would be ideal if this would be a temporary measure with the goal of weaning her off once she sleeps for longer stretches of time and no longer wakes up at night for potty breaks. We can further expedite things by letting the puppy go to sleep later and get up early so less need for middle-of-the-night trips. Usually, this is an issue for about a couple of weeks.

[CAITLIN FITZGERALD]

3 hours ago, Adrienne Farricelli said:

I hear you, this is a common problem. I have encountered this issue personally several times, not with the cats, but littermates or foster pups that after being taken out together, or seeing my other dogs, they got excited and wanted to interact with them. It helped to make the potty trip as calm and matter-of-fact as possible, ideally on leash so that the pup doesn't start playing around, and then back to bed.

If petting her gets her to relax, to the point of getting her to sleep,  I don't see any imminent harm in doing that. She's still very young,  however, we want her to  also learn to self-soothe. So it would be ideal if this would be a temporary measure with the goal of weaning her off once she sleeps for longer stretches of time and no longer wakes up at night for potty breaks. We can further expedite things by letting the puppy go to sleep later and get up early so less need for middle-of-the-night trips. Usually, this is an issue for about a couple of weeks.

That makes me feel way better. Thank you!

 

[Adrienne Farricelli]

You're very welcome, keep us posted on how things go!

Best,

Adrienne 

[CAITLIN FITZGERALD]

Okay, we were starting to feel like we had this figured out. Atari got her second shots so we were able to take her on short walks but no park this week. Vet also thinks she is younger - probably 12 weeks but maybe even 11. She has learned a lot of things very quickly - she has "leave it" down pretty well when food is involved and she is better about playing with her toys by herself. When she does chew on something else, she is quickly redirected. At night, she can settle down for bed in about 10 minutes and any time she is up in the middle of the night, she goes right back to her bed after. She also learned to play fetch and even the car rides are getting easier. There is light at the end of the tunnel! (Separation anxiety is still taking some time.) 

However, the cat stuff is getting worse. The cats spend a lot of time sitting outside the door that separates them. (They have most of the house and Dan's office is there so they are rarely alone). I am not sure if they are upset they cannot roam the whole house or if they are looking for treats because when we do "cat time" with Atari, they know they get to just eat treats on that side of the gate. But they all seem obsessed with each other. Now Atari wants to sit at the door and bark at them. Our cat training times have gone very well. She totally ignores them and focuses on us doing the "look at me" and "leave it" stuff. When she seems bored, we will mix it up and do other stuff like lie down, get up, or track. But then we close the door and she wants to go back and sit there. This just started yesterday. For the last week, we could do cat time and then close the door and it was over. Now she obsesses on that door. We redirect her but it's nearly constant. And sometimes the older kitten will cry for a second which riles her up again. 

We did let her go (leashed) to visit the kitties today and made her sit and look at the 7 mo. old. (Older brother hid in closet) But we can't let her go off leash and if we don't redirect her the whole time, she just wants to chase/play with the cats. She's way bigger than they are so it's definitely not a good idea. 

Is there anything we can do differently or do we just have to wait for her to desensitize... some day? People keep telling us to just let her go and have them work it out because apparently their cats smacked the dog on the face and the dog left them alone. We know this will not work with her and could result in injury for either her or the cats - most likely the cats. But this is really hard and I'm wondering if there is a better solution that might help speed this up? 

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Okay, we were starting to feel like we had this figured out. Atari got her second shots so we were able to take her on short walks but no park this week. Vet also thinks she is younger - probably 12 weeks but maybe even 11. She has learned a lot of things very quickly - she has "leave it" down pretty well when food is involved and she is better about playing with her toys by herself. When she does chew on something else, she is quickly redirected. At night, she can settle down for bed in about 10 minutes and any time she is up in the middle of the night, she goes right back to her bed after. She also learned to play fetch and even the car rides are getting easier. There is light at the end of the tunnel! (Separation anxiety is still taking some time.) 

Sounds great! That's a lot of improvement, kudos to you! If she is actually younger, that can explain why she has been struggling with the separation times. These young pups enjoy a whole lot company, and tend to have a fear of being left alone. Not to mention, being in their prime socialization time, they want to explore and learn more about their world and tend to have fear of missing out. 

Keep up teaching her to to entertain herself with food-dispensing toys, (like Kong Wobblers) https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/adriennes-picks/top-5-dog-feeding-toys/ and playing games of hide and seek https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/university/hide-and-seek/ (she is too young to hold a longer sit-stay or down stay, so you can have a helper hold her while you hide and release her once you're ready) along with the other exercises to prevent separation anxiety, https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/exercises-to-prevent-separation-anxiety-in-puppies/

Things tend to start getting a little better once these pups reach their flight period:

 https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/flight-instinct-period-4-8-months/

However, the cat stuff is getting worse. The cats spend a lot of time sitting outside the door that separates them. (They have most of the house and Dan's office is there so they are rarely alone). I am not sure if they are upset they cannot roam the whole house or if they are looking for treats because when we do "cat time" with Atari, they know they get to just eat treats on that side of the gate. But they all seem obsessed with each other

Now Atari wants to sit at the door and bark at them. Our cat training times have gone very well. She totally ignores them and focuses on us doing the "look at me" and "leave it" stuff. When she seems bored, we will mix it up and do other stuff like lie down, get up, or track. But then we close the door and she wants to go back and sit there. This just started yesterday. For the last week, we could do cat time and then close the door and it was over. Now she obsesses on that door. We redirect her but it's nearly constant. And sometimes the older kitten will cry for a second which riles her up again. 

We did let her go (leashed) to visit the kitties today and made her sit and look at the 7 mo. old. (Older brother hid in closet) But we can't let her go off leash and if we don't redirect her the whole time, she just wants to chase/play with the cats. She's way bigger than they are so it's definitely not a good idea. 

 

Your pup is young, and your cats are also fairly young. I think it's normal for them to all be attracted to each other. These cases of puppies wanting to chase/play with cats pose some challenges, because we can't remove a pups' instinct to want to play, chase and interact.

For sake of comparison, I think it's  sort of expecting kids in daycare to stay away from each other with each being kept in their own area. I would imagine all toddlers crying because they want to mingle and play with the others, even if they would have  access to the best toys.

With puppies being super social and at the prime time of their socialization period, all they want to do is play, explore and interact. It sounds like your cats are also intrigued by the pup. 

Is there anything we can do differently or do we just have to wait for her to desensitize... some day? People keep telling us to just let her go and have them work it out because apparently their cats smacked the dog on the face and the dog left them alone. We know this will not work with her and could result in injury for either her or the cats - most likely the cats. But this is really hard and I'm wondering if there is a better solution that might help speed this up? 

You can keep on gradually introducing them, until they all seem more comfortable with each other and you can trust them being around each other more and more. You have the advantage that your dog is puppy right now and your cats are fairly young.

How fast you can move in the process will vary based on several factors such as your cat's personalities. You will need to keep an eye on their body language for clues and when to intervene. Here are some general tips, consider that for the most part, it's a two-way process: making life easier for the cats and training the puppy to control his instincts to chase.

Following are several tips that can help the cats acclimate better, I know you are already doing many of these, but will post them still to have all basis covered. 

Gradual introductions: cats do best if they are given some time to get used to seeing and hearing the puppy. Rather than letting them meet face-to-face and hope for the best, keep both in separated areas so they can see and hear each other, but without interacting directly. While, in general, a dog requires about a month to adapt to a new addition in the household, cats may need many months to adjust. It is best to go slow. Slower introductions are more likely to succeed. 

Do scent swaps: while in their own areas, provide the cats with a blanket that smells like the puppy, and provide the puppy with a blanket that smells like the cats. Reward the pets for interacting with the blanket or simply place some treat on top. These scent swaps help all parties acclimatize to each others' smells. 

Ensure your cats keep getting attention:  It's important to continue giving the cats the attention they were accustomed to prior to getting Atari. Make sure to dedicate some time in playing with the cats and giving them extra attention. Pups can be a lot of work, so sometimes we may feel exhausted, but the kitties need attention too. 

Confine your puppy. If your cats used to have the full run of the house prior to getting your puppy, don't make their world smaller by confining them in a small area while the puppy enjoys the run of the house. Rather, confine the puppy in an x-pen or use baby gates to separate the pup in a room. Puppies do best in smaller areas of the home for ease of potty training and to grant them a puppy-safe area where they don't get too much in trouble.

Create a space with a double partition. If your cats seems stressed by your puppy continuously trying to interact, or your puppy is constantly wanting to access the cats, it can help to create a space with a double partition. This allows a sort of "buffer" "between the dog and the cats.

Help form positive associations with the puppy. Feed your cats something delicious every time they see the puppy. You can use some of that gravy stuff to put on cat food on your finger and let the cat lick it every time they see the puppy using the open bar/closed bar method. 

Provide escape routes/safe areas. Cats need areas they can retreat to if they feel the need to escape. Baby gates/ pet fences that allow the cat to escape but keeps the dog contained, also lots of vertical options such as cat trees, tall furniture, cat escape hatches etc. Cats are very vertical beings so they need the ability to jump up and away when they need a break. 

Train your puppy. Puppies see cats as fun playmates to play with and chase, and some cats get stressed if all the puppy wants to do is chase. It's very helpful to train the puppy some impulse control and basic obedience. Many cats find puppies less threatening if the pups are able to sit and lie down on cue. Leave its and recalls come also handy in case the cats appear to be want to be left alone. All these skills will be helpful for the pups' entire life.

Start with leashed introductions.  It is best if Atari has exercised enough so that he has drained some excess energy. Keep the pup on leash in the house when around the cats and use your trained cues as needed rewarding accordingly with tasty treats. How long you'll need to keep your pup leashed will vary based on several factors, the most important being the comfort level of the animals involved and their safety. You will therefore need to evaluate your cats' body language and personalities and how they seem to respond. 

Have your pup drag a leash. When doing training around the cats, let your pup stay on leash until he learns to follow your cues and your cats appear more comfortable. Then, once pup and cats seem more comfortable around each other, you can let him free (always under strict active supervision) for short periods of time, but let him drag the leash so you can intervene swiftly as needed by holding on top or stepping on the leash. Make sure all the cats have access to escape routes and have vertical options.  If all goes well, after several days, you can gradually increase duration.

Watch your cat's body language. Puppies like to play a lot, and some cats can like to play too. Some cats do well playing with pups (some cats seem to purposely enjoy provoking pups) as long as they have a place to retreat to as needed and that the puppy learns to respect when the cats have had enough. There should be breaks within the play and intervention may be needed if you notice tense body language in cats (ears back, tail swishing side-to-side, paw up) or the cat being cornered with no way out. 

Use calming aids for cats. If your cats appear very stressed by your puppy, you can always use some calming aids such as pheromone diffusers (Feliway) or other calming supplements under the advice of your vet.  

Always put safety of your animals first! It is tempting to get complacent at some point an assume that all is well, but any time dogs and cats are left together there are chances for mishaps and sometimes even scary accidents. Dogs and cats should never be left together unsupervised. Most dogs will want to chase fleeing cats and a dog may react differently to a cat running in the yard versus in the home. It therefore helps a lot to practice training in various locations around the house and garden and to help the cat feel comfortable enough to not want to run away all the time.  

I hope this helps,

Happy training!

Adrienne 

 

 

[CAITLIN FITZGERALD]

28 minutes ago, Adrienne Farricelli said:

I hope this helps,

Happy training!

Adrienne 

Thank you, Adrienne! The validation and additional information is very helpful and I really appreciate it. We'll start incorporating these new things. 🙂

 

 

[Adrienne Farricelli]

You're very welcome! Keep us posted on how things go! Always keep safety in mind and monitor carefully body language and interactions. If you notice signs of aggression or anything concerning, best to work along with a dog/cat professional. You may need a cat behavior pro if the cats are particularly stressed or show signs of aggression. 

[CAITLIN FITZGERALD]

Hi again, 

Ok, so now we have some new issues coming up and it sort of feels like everything is getting way harder even though Atari totally knows what we expect of her by now. I can tell she does everything for attention because she will start to chew the table or something and I will see her and she instantly stops and pretends she's doing something else (like "I was just gonna lick it, I swear"). 

Some things are getting a little better - car rides are getting somewhat calmer as long as we give her a chew or I pet her and talk to her. She waits for me to get up before she gets out of bed now in the morning. She's doing really well with the cats as long as it's supervised and controlled. However, the cats keep crying to come into the living room and trying to escape their side of the house because it's like they want to be her friend and she keeps trying to open the door to the hallway now even though we keep a gate there too. (She figured out how to open the door and my fiance calls her a raptor, haha). But without the controlled visits, she will chase them instantly. If we engage her the whole time, she will relax and ignore them. They escape once a day now, and attempt even more often. Today we tried to let them all roam and we kept the leash on her and supervised but then we both had to get back to work so it was not something we could do for long. She kept trying to chase them anytime we did not make her sit. 

That would be ok to live with if that is all there was - but now she is jumping on the couch for attention and chewing it up and she is throwing more and more tantrums - ear piercing ones. Basically for the dumbest reasons like she wants to go for a walk in the middle of the day which we never do. We are also surrounded by houses with dogs who bark (not all the time, but probably once or twice a day- no big deal) and she always ignored them before but now she barks back - today she barked at noises at the front door that I couldn't even hear - probably people walking by at the street? She's also getting more demanding of our attention. It used to be that I could work and she would take a nap, but now if she hears my fiance's voice when he's on a work call, she will wake up and run to the door and then throw a tantrum wanting him to come out. She wants us both to be with her now. Tonight, I was the only one home and I was on the phone but she got so upset that I was not paying attention to her that she started trying to play bite my legs and jump on the furniture to get my attention. When I ignored her, she threw a loud tantrum. I kept ignoring her and she got right in my face and barked. She has also taken to trying to bolt outside the front door whenever she can - even though we always make her sit and wait before she is allowed to walk through any doors. Now that she is getting walks, she tries to rush outside even if we are going to take the garbage out or get the mail. 

I thought we were doing everything right -redirecting her instead of giving attention - working on her impulse control, training her - she knows tons of commands and games. At puppy class, the instructor saw that we make her sit at the door and wait before she walked through and she commented that even the dogs in her obedience II classes can't do that yet. But when class starts, she gets so excited that she struggles to look at us or listen to us - we basically stop existing once the other puppies arrive. We've increased the value of her treats which helps a little but not a lot. We basically try to survive until puppy play time - but it's embarrassing when she throws a tantrum and all the other puppies are learning their commands and being all quiet and stuff. She's a social butterfly and just wants to go play with them but the first 2/3 of class are for obedience training.

She also gets excited and pees when she meets new people almost every time. I just don't know what to do about the excitement stuff. She walks great and we go twice a day for about 15 minutes - aside from zig-zagging, she basically walks next to us every time. We're working on heel still. I'm increasing the amount of times we train her to listen to her name at home - but once we're out in the world, it doesn't matter anymore. She has no name. 

So I guess I could use help on the tantrums and the over-excitement and any additional advice on the cat stuff? I don't know if we should just keep doing what we're doing and be patient... but it does feel like everything is getting harder and I worry that it's all because I'm doing something wrong. Should we do jazz up/settle down when we have friends come over? How do we redirect her from barking at the cats through the office window or the neighborhood dogs - when we are inside the house? Because I feel like us going outside is a form of reward but then I can't stop it without doing that. And she won't stop on her own, I've tried waiting to see if she does. 

 

Thank you. 🙂 

 

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Hi again, 

Ok, so now we have some new issues coming up and it sort of feels like everything is getting way harder even though Atari totally knows what we expect of her by now. I can tell she does everything for attention because she will start to chew the table or something and I will see her and she instantly stops and pretends she's doing something else (like "I was just gonna lick it, I swear"). 

More than attention-seeking, this sounds like a normal pup who has a natural desire to chew and stops the moment you look at her, simply because she has associated your presence with being told to stop. Sort of like a natural re-direction of "Oops, I thought I wasn't watched! Am I in trouble? Let me do something else then."

With attention-seeking dogs instead we see more of them purposely going to chew things and continuing to chew just for the purpose of getting the attention. So it would be more like "Look at me, I am chewing! Hello? Don't you come to stop me? I am seeking interaction!"

I would make sure she has access to chew toys (look for toys made for teething puppies) and interactive food puzzles that are rotated randomly so to keep her interest alive. Consider that, from the age of 12 to 16 weeks, baby teeth are shed and permanent teeth start coming in. This stage is particularly painful to pups sort of like babies crying from sore gums. They can get very chewy and cranky.

There are also commercially available chew toys specifically designed to be frozen prior to use for teething puppies. The concept behind these toys is same as with the ice pack provided to people after a painful dentist visit. The only difference is these toys can be re-frozen and re-used.

Alternatively, you can save some money by making your own frozen chew toys. All you need is an old dishrag or towel which you can twist into a long and stick-like shape and put in the freezer for couple of hours. Then, once well-frozen, give the dishrag or towel to your teething puppy.  The cold relieves oral discomfort while the towel’s texture and chewiness promote proper biting behavior.

Finally, you can use edible items, such as dog-safe frozen fruits and vegetables. Bananas, strawberries and carrots make excellent and tasty frozen pain relievers. Their coldness will numb the sore gums and their density may aid the removal of the already loose teeth. (Careful with carrots as some pups may swallow them whole or too big chunks of them which can predispose to blockages, this is not very common, but better safe than sorry). 

Make sure to keep an eye on her teeth to ensure that there are no retained baby teeth. These should be removed by the time the pup is 5 months. Here is a picture of a dog I boarded. The owner wasn't aware she had baby teeth because she wasn't very collaborative in having her mouth checked. 

Some things are getting a little better - car rides are getting somewhat calmer as long as we give her a chew or I pet her and talk to her.

That's great! Keep up creating positive associations with the car and car rides!

She waits for me to get up before she gets out of bed now in the morning.

Great, we all benefit from some extra sleep!

She's doing really well with the cats as long as it's supervised and controlled. However, the cats keep crying to come into the living room and trying to escape their side of the house because it's like they want to be her friend and she keeps trying to open the door to the hallway now even though we keep a gate there too. (She figured out how to open the door and my fiance calls her a raptor, haha). But without the controlled visits, she will chase them instantly. If we engage her the whole time, she will relax and ignore them. They escape once a day now, and attempt even more often. Today we tried to let them all roam and we kept the leash on her and supervised but then we both had to get back to work so it was not something we could do for long. She kept trying to chase them anytime we did not make her sit. 

You have a mix of breeds with strong drives to herd/chase, plus being a puppy there is this strong need to play and then you have cats who are inquisitive, but tend to flee. Lot's of things to work on! Your pup needs to learn to be better under control, and at the same time, your cats need to learn not to fear your pup because, the more they flee due to fear, the more you'll pup will feel the need to chase. And constantly working on this can be time consuming and impractical if we lead busy lives. 

I worked with a beagle last summer living with a cat, and the poor cat lived most of her life on the counters and shelves. I could tell she felt left out. The dog immediately would chase her and try to hump her if she ever jumped down. We had to work a lot on getting the dog under control using the leash at first,  then the leash came off and we used the smacking sound,https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/the-airplane-game/the-smacking-sound/ and at some point you could tell the cat was starting to feel relief when the dog was no longer constantly trying to chase her. She started jumping on the floor more and more and gained a bit of confidence, but if the dog and cat were ever not supervised/controlled, the dog would go back to its instincts (history of long rehearsal made things more challenging). 

So we found a compromise of each day allowing the cat some quality time in the living room, while the dog was kept busy with a stuffed frozen Kong. After the Kong, the dog would may have tried to chase the cat again but was redirected promptly using the smacking sound and given something else to do (such as a safe bone to chew) and afterward, she would nap in the exercise pen. We also did exercises where the cat was fed a treat, and the dog a treat right after upon being asked to sit (yes, cats can be trained to sit too!)

After some time, the beagle started associating the cat with getting all these goodies and also learned to *relax* (not chase) despite the cat being around, while the cat learned to be more relaxed around the dog and no longer running the moment she saw him. Gradually, they got to spend more time like this. I haven't gotten an update for some time, but last picture she sent me showed dog and cat sleeping nearby, so I guess all is good. 

Now, you have the advantage of having a young pup and young cats so there are better chances of each accepting each other, but problems arise when the cats are always acting fearful and they get into the habit of always fleeing. So if there is a door or baby gate that opens, get that fixed and make sure your pup doesn't scare the cats.

However, it also true that there are cats and cats and cats. My cats were introduced with my Rotties at a young age so even if they were chased, they ran up a chair, but they weren't stressed by the dogs. They rather seemed to be amused, perhaps they thought it was a game, and sometimes when in the mood, they would even wrestle with my Rotties and even knead on top of them! So it's important evaluating their body language and how they really feel. Some cats seem to get a kick out of being chased and will purposely get close and try to get dogs to chase them. 

But if it's fear-based fleeing, there may be risks that the cats may learn to live in a vertical world. Which is not necessary a bad thing, many dog/cat owners have cats that live like that, but I feel that the cats need to have at least some time to feel included in the family and not feel as if they "were totally replaced by the dog."

If you can do more and more of these leash introductions with guidance, its good so they get to know about each other and if you can feed them treats to reward them for being relaxed that can help in creating positive associations (have a helper feed the treat to the cats at distance while you treat your pup on the leash).

That would be ok to live with if that is all there was - but now she is jumping on the couch for attention and chewing it up and she is throwing more and more tantrums - ear piercing ones.

This still sounds like the puppy chewing phase with teething pups. Fabric feels good on the sore gums. If you don't want her on the couch, you can try to place bulky items there. If she chews, train a fluent 'leave it" https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/obedience-101/take-leave-it/ (she should respond well considering that you stated that sometimes just looking at her gets to stop chewing when she shows an intent) and when you cannot supervise, you can place an exercise pen around the couch. 

Basically for the dumbest reasons like she wants to go for a walk in the middle of the day which we never do. We are also surrounded by houses with dogs who bark (not all the time, but probably once or twice a day- no big deal) and she always ignored them before but now she barks back - today she barked at noises at the front door that I couldn't even hear - probably people walking by at the street?

She's also getting more demanding of our attention. It used to be that I could work and she would take a nap, but now if she hears my fiance's voice when he's on a work call, she will wake up and run to the door and then throw a tantrum wanting him to come out. She wants us both to be with her now.

You are not alone on this, trust me, so many new puppy owners are dealing with this especially with many of them working at home. You can find several tips on this issue here: 

Tonight, I was the only one home and I was on the phone but she got so upset that I was not paying attention to her that she started trying to play bite my legs and jump on the furniture to get my attention. When I ignored her, she threw a loud tantrum. I kept ignoring her and she got right in my face and barked.

Sounds like a big extinction burst, what happened afterward? If we reinforce this by getting up and attending to her, that would have reinforced persistence. 

She has also taken to trying to bolt outside the front door whenever she can - even though we always make her sit and wait before she is allowed to walk through any doors. Now that she is getting walks, she tries to rush outside even if we are going to take the garbage out or get the mail. 

She may be entering the flight period: https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/flight-instinct-period-4-8-months/ 

You can outsmart her by using your body to block passage through the door. Keep the door slightly ajar and don't open it fully until you have a nice solid sit-stay and if she tries to slip through, be fast to close it. Open the door very slowly, making it clear that any of her forward movement will cause the door to close, open wide only once she got the concept and is on her best solid sit/stay and then invite her out. 

I thought we were doing everything right -redirecting her instead of giving attention - working on her impulse control, training her - she knows tons of commands and games. At puppy class, the instructor saw that we make her sit at the door and wait before she walked through and she commented that even the dogs in her obedience II classes can't do that yet.

That's impressive! I think you are on the right track, things often seem to get worse rather than better at times, you know all the extinction bursts, and being puppy owners is a lot of work (sort of like having a baby) but also teething can cause lots of crankiness and the flight periods can cause new behaviors too.

But when class starts, she gets so excited that she struggles to look at us or listen to us - we basically stop existing once the other puppies arrive. We've increased the value of her treats which helps a little but not a lot. We basically try to survive until puppy play time - but it's embarrassing when she throws a tantrum and all the other puppies are learning their commands and being all quiet and stuff. She's a social butterfly and just wants to go play with them but the first 2/3 of class are for obedience training.

Discuss this with the trainer, the trainer can take steps to decrease her arousal using more distance and sometimes visual barriers that can be gradually removed once she calms down. Giving her something to chew can help too. Make sure she gets to join puppy time only once she's a little calmer and capable of listening to cues otherwise we risk reinforcing her hyper behaviors. 

She also gets excited and pees when she meets new people almost every time. I just don't know what to do about the excitement stuff. She walks great and we go twice a day for about 15 minutes - aside from zig-zagging, she basically walks next to us every time. We're working on heel still. I'm increasing the amount of times we train her to listen to her name at home - but once we're out in the world, it doesn't matter anymore. She has no name. 

For the excitement urination you can toss treats on the ground to distract her from the peeing. You also may want to have people try to ignore her. Most pups outgrow this eventually.  More on this here: https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/submissive-urination/

So I guess I could use help on the tantrums and the over-excitement and any additional advice on the cat stuff? I don't know if we should just keep doing what we're doing and be patient... but it does feel like everything is getting harder and I worry that it's all because I'm doing something wrong.

Should we do jazz up/settle down when we have friends come over?

You can practice hand targeting with the guests https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/preschool/targeting/ and practice her taking cues from the guests (sits, downs etc) and you can also do round-robin recalls (sit in a circle and take turns calling her and rewarding her), but also teach her to relax on a mat with a chew once she's less excited. 

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/video-archive/train-dog-go-to-mat/

How do we redirect her from barking at the cats through the office window or the neighborhood dogs - when we are inside the house? 

Because I feel like us going outside is a form of reward but then I can't stop it without doing that. And she won't stop on her own, I've tried waiting to see if she does. 

Thank you. 🙂 

You can try the 'hear that' method: https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/fear-noises/

and also buffer the sounds with some white noise (fan, tv, radio). 

You can place window film on the window if feasible or do something to block visuals. 

I hope this helps!

Best,

Adrienne

[CAITLIN FITZGERALD]

Thanks again! She was most definitely entering flight period. Her teeth were also bothering her a ton - she lost four or five in two days and today she's been very good all day. So I think the teeth were a major part of the problem. We did more cat training but let the cats walk around and she threw a crazy tantrum wanting to chase them - she would not listen to us on the training anymore and it probably sounded to the neighbors like we were doing something terrible to her. Then the next morning she was hesitant to put on her harness for a walk. So now we're back to doing the cat training with the gate between them and feeding the cats treats while she trains/ignores them. Seems there is no solution but time for the cat thing. However, I'm making a point to go and spend more time with them during the day so that it is not just Dan with them and that is helping. I think they thought I was replacing them with Atari. There's not much else we can do at this point so I hope the cats will be ok over the long haul. Some day they will all be friends! 

Understanding her flight period helped a lot though. I got some plastic scat mats for the couch (NOT electric - they are just sort of spikey but not enough to hurt her) and she has stopped jumping on it. She's been pretty good the last two days and we're working on making ourselves more interesting to divert her from chewing on furniture. Things are getting better. Aside from the tantrums, which I hope will fade with age, we are seeing some improvements now that we understand what is going on. 

However, I took her to my parent's house yesterday so we could run some errands and they have an elderly dog she wants to play with so they have to keep them separated so she doesn't keep barking at him to play. She went over to the elderly dog's blanket and peed on it. Was she marking it? How do we prevent her from doing that, especially when she is at someone else's house? 

[Adrienne Farricelli]

 Her teeth were also bothering her a ton - she lost four or five in two days and today she's been very good all day. So I think the teeth were a major part of the problem.

Yes, teething can really put a "dent" in their behaviors and makes them extra cranky!

 I got some plastic scat mats for the couch (NOT electric - they are just sort of spikey but not enough to hurt her) and she has stopped jumping on it. 

I am glad that you found those spikey things helpful, I have seen them lately on sale but didn't see enough feedback to determine whether they can turn extra helpful or not. I have known some of my clients using those sort of plastic carpet runner things turned upside down so the hard points are facing upward and it helped to make the couch lose its appeal. 

 We did more cat training but let the cats walk around and she threw a crazy tantrum wanting to chase them - she would not listen to us on the training anymore and it probably sounded to the neighbors like we were doing something terrible to her. So now we're back to doing the cat training with the gate between them and feeding the cats treats while she trains/ignores them. Seems there is no solution but time for the cat thing. However, I'm making a point to go and spend more time with them during the day so that it is not just Dan with them and that is helping. I think they thought I was replacing them with Atari. There's not much else we can do at this point so I hope the cats will be ok over the long haul. Some day they will all be friends!

It's extra hard on them as they are puppies as they want to play and being restrained can create frustration especially if the cats keep on running away. Your pup is young and often this is the best time to introduce them to other pets and let them learn how to interact with each other.

Was your puppy on leash or behind a baby gate or other barrier when this happened?

How was your cat's body language overall when they were walking around prior to the tantrum? 

Do your cats appear scared of her or stressed in any way? 

How close were they to your puppy when she had the tantrum compare to the other times? It sounds like she was significantly over threshold compared to the previous training you have done where she was able to ignore. 

Then the next morning she was hesitant to put on her harness for a walk

Has anything negative happened lately on walks or prior to walks? 

 However, I took her to my parent's house yesterday so we could run some errands and they have an elderly dog she wants to play with so they have to keep them separated so she doesn't keep barking at him to play. She went over to the elderly dog's blanket and peed on it. Was she marking it? How do we prevent her from doing that, especially when she is at someone else's house? 

She seems quite young for marking in the real sense of the word, but puppies may urinate to prove to older dogs that they are only "puppies." Puppy urine has a smell that older dogs recognize and learn that puppies are just puppies and mean no harm.

They also can display submissive/excitement urination in presence of dogs.

I would suggest closely monitoring her just as you would a puppy who is being house trained, and removing the blanket if that was a trigger that prompted the marking. Also, if the dogs greet/meet, best to do it outdoors if that prompts her to pee. If you can recognize a pattern that evokes her to pee that can help you predict it and avoid those situations/distract. 

Do you by any chance use pee pads? Some pups pee on anything that may look like or feel like a pee pad. 

Was the older dog nearby when she peed on the blanket? If so, what happened right prior to the peeing? 

Was she "empty" before entering the home (peed recently)?

Was this a little trickle  or more like a larger puddle?

 

[CAITLIN FITZGERALD]

3 hours ago, Adrienne Farricelli said:

I am glad that you found those spikey things helpful, I have seen them lately on sale but didn't see enough feedback to determine whether they can turn extra helpful or not. I have known some of my clients using those sort of plastic carpet runner things turned upside down so the hard points are facing upward and it helped to make the couch lose its appeal. 

Yes, she only jumped up once and ever since then she has stopped - it's surprising how quickly she started ignoring the couch. We also brought her bed out to the living room so she could lay in it during the day and that has stopped her from pacing around and even wanting to jump on the couch. She walks up, looks at the spikes, and then goes to her bed now. 

Was your puppy on leash or behind a baby gate or other barrier when this happened? So we were having her behind the baby gate with the door open but she was doing so well we decided to progress things. When she threw the tantrum last week, the cats were roaming the living room and we were having her practice her obedience training/try to ignore. But one of the cats walks slowly around the entire room - she also played on her cat tree - and Atari was freaking out. She was barking and screeching because she wanted to be let off her harness. We were trying to get her to sit down and look at us but once she escalated, it was impossible. We reverted to keeping the baby gate between them and she is completely calm and well-behaved as long as we keep actively working with her. Like we can make her sit, get up, lie down, look at us, leave it, shake, etc. and she glances at the cats but doesn't do anything. If we left the gate up but door open all the time, the cats would come to the living room and/or she would jump up on the fence (front paws on it) and cry. So we do about 15 minutes a day (sometimes twice a day but usually it's hard to find time when we're both available) and then keep the door closed the rest of the time. We are trying to do it twice a day more frequently though to speed things along. 

How was your cat's body language overall when they were walking around prior to the tantrum? Neither of the cats run from her. Our fearless smaller cat walks around and when the gate is between them, she tries to play with Atari's tail (Atari doesn't react as long as we are engaging her). Kora the fearless one just circles the room or goes into her hammock and plays by herself. The other cat will lie in his hammock and go to sleep even if Atari is there but when she starts her screechy yipping, he gets annoyed and walks out. He also does not come into the living room when she is there. They both maintain relaxed body language but Crixus, the older one will either hide under couch (He's the one who escapes and then he realizes she is there and he goes under couch) or just stay away altogether. One day, he escaped, saw her, and ran under couch and I couldn't get him out. She laid down and stared at him but was quiet. I had a meeting so I couldn't do anything else but I put the leash on her and held onto it. Since she was calm, I just left her there. She fell asleep about 20 minutes later and then the cat silently came out and then went back over the gate and I could close the door. 

Do your cats appear scared of her or stressed in any way? Only when she is screeching/tantrum or if they escape and she chases them. We have put her on leash and let her get close to them as long as she is calm-ish. like if she gets excited she has to step back. if she goes slowly, we let her step forward. But then once she got close to them. Crixus the big one hissed and puffed up. The little one was fine but then when she started sniffing her super excitedly, she got a little scared and put her ears back. Neither of them swat her or run ever. 

How close were they to your puppy when she had the tantrum compare to the other times? It sounds like she was significantly over threshold compared to the previous training you have done where she was able to ignore. 

It was going well with Atari listening to us until Kora the little one walked right up to her and was sitting on the coffee table. Kora then jumped down and walked right past Atari's feet and sat a foot away. I let her inch close to Kora but then she lunged and scared her (Kora just crouched down and put ears back) so I pulled her back a few feet and made her sit and then she erupted into the horrendous tantrum. We had to wait for her to stop before we could put the cats back behind the door because she was jumping around and we were trying to distract her with other things. Kora won't leave the room unless we lure her back with treats. 

Has anything negative happened lately on walks or prior to walks? No, I think she was remembering the tantrum the night before and how the harness was the source of her frustration. She is ok with the harness now though since we have had four walks. During walks now, she wants to sniff and roll around on people's yards and she pulls on the leash. Until now, she was heeling all the time even though she didn't know the word yet. This is from flight stage though, right? Should we just reinforce the heel when she is calm/at home and then make her sit more on the walk until she calms down? 

She seems quite young for marking in the real sense of the word, but puppies may urinate to prove to older dogs that they are only "puppies." Puppy urine has a smell that older dogs recognize and learn that puppies are just puppies and mean no harm. Oh, ok, how interesting! She also peed on the mat under her bed (bed and mat underneath used to be our old dog's who passed away in January). We think it's because it smelled like him. We washed it and she has not done it again until this incident with my parent's dog's blanket. 

They also can display submissive/excitement urination in presence of dogs. The dog was in the other room because she wouldn't stop barking at him to play and he did not want to play with her. My dad said she walked up to the blanket (he had been separated from her for over an hour) and sniffed it and then squatted and peed on it. We happened to walk in just as she was walking away from the blanket. 

I would suggest closely monitoring her just as you would a puppy who is being house trained, and removing the blanket if that was a trigger that prompted the marking. Also, if the dogs greet/meet, best to do it outdoors if that prompts her to pee. If you can recognize a pattern that evokes her to pee that can help you predict it and avoid those situations/distract.  Ok thanks, we'll look for other triggers then. They have a cat as well who just ignores her but she won't stop barking at it so my parents have just been keeping her away from both the cat and older dog. Older dog is like 16 years old and a little white dog who used to live with an old woman before they took him after she died. So he's not very dog-like and just tries to walk away from her but then she paws at him and barks obsessively. My dad can't get her to stop so he just separates them. 

Do you by any chance use pee pads? Some pups pee on anything that may look like or feel like a pee pad. No but we did adopt her at like 9-10 weeks and don't know what her history was before. 

Was the older dog nearby when she peed on the blanket? If so, what happened right prior to the peeing? I'll ask my dad what else might have happened before she peed on his blanket. My dad just said that blanket is where Sparky likes to sleep during the day. I'll also tell him to keep an eye out for what triggers her if it happens again. 

Was she "empty" before entering the home (peed recently)? Yes, she had been outside for a couple of hours in their yard and he said he had seen her pee. But if she drank a lot of water, that might not matter. 

Was this a little trickle  or more like a larger puddle? It was a normal puddle. 

 

 

[Adrienne Farricelli]

 

Thanks for all the additional info!

 

So we were having her behind the baby gate with the door open but she was doing so well we decided to progress things. When she threw the tantrum last week, the cats were roaming the living room and we were having her practice her obedience training/try to ignore. But one of the cats walks slowly around the entire room - she also played on her cat tree - and Atari was freaking out. 

 

We reverted to keeping the baby gate between them and she is completely calm and well-behaved as long as we keep actively working with her. Like we can make her sit, get up, lie down, look at us, leave it, shake, etc. and she glances at the cats but doesn't do anything. 

 

If we left the gate up but door open all the time, the cats would come to the living room and/or she would jump up on the fence (front paws on it) and cry. So we do about 15 minutes a day (sometimes twice a day but usually it's hard to find time when we're both available) and then keep the door closed the rest of the time. We are trying to do it twice a day more frequently though to speed things along. 

 

How close were they to your puppy when she had the tantrum compare to the other times? It sounds like she was significantly over threshold compared to the previous training you have done where she was able to ignore. 

It was going well with Atari listening to us until Kora the little one walked right up to her and was sitting on the coffee table. Kora then jumped down and walked right past Atari's feet and sat a foot away. I let her inch close to Kora but then she lunged and scared her (Kora just crouched down and put ears back) so I pulled her back a few feet and made her sit and then she erupted into the horrendous tantrum. We had to wait for her to stop before we could put the cats back behind the door because she was jumping around and we were trying to distract her with other things. Kora won't leave the room unless we lure her back with treats. 

First off, it's great to hear that you were able to graduate to keeping her behind the baby gate with the door open and that she was doing very well that you considering progressing! When we progress though, there is often the risk of some type of setback. Indeed, progressing is one of the number one causes of setbacks we seen in behavior modification, because the dog may not be ready for that level of closer interaction, and we get so very hopeful and we just start seeing everything with pink-colored glasses... But there are other dynamics at play. 

 

 With the cats feeling more comfortable around Atari, most likely they are getting a little more confident and moving around more and doing unusual things and this is triggering your pup and sending her over threshold. 

 

In the case of cats sharing the house with dogs, a big challenge is that it is difficult to control the environment. A cat may happen to come too close or may do something unexpected and can easily tip the dog over threshold.  

 

So if she was doing OK with the baby gate with the door open, but not OK with the cats approaching the living room (causing her to jump up on the crate and cry) we may need an intermediate space buffer such as a pet fence between the baby gate and the living room where, they can see each other, but the cats are prevented from coming too close. In lieu of a pet fence, an opened exercise pen can work as well as a temporary barrier that we can gradually fade. 

 

She was barking and screeching because she wanted to be let off her harness. We were trying to get her to sit down and look at us but once she escalated, it was impossible.  Has anything negative happened lately on walks or prior to walks? No, I think she was remembering the tantrum the night before and how the harness was the source of her frustration. She is ok with the harness now though since we have had four walks.

 

Sounds like some barrier frustration. If a dog was ever allowed in the past to go meet/greet other dogs/people or chase/get closer to the cats when pulling, that time that they cannot, they'll have a little "tantrum" which can also be called an extinction burst.  If we stick to our determination in not letting them achieve their goal by pulling/vocalizing -no matter how dramatic, they should soon learn that their behavior "doesn't work" and eventually stop trying (with the occasional return of the undesirable behavior courtesy of a phenomenon known as lovely spontaneous recovery).

 

If we though allow them to pull (and get closer to what they want) sometimes yes and sometimes no, we reinforce persistence and make the behavior of pulling/displaying a tantrum more and more established because it'll be put on an intermittent schedule. 

 

Intermittent schedules, make behaviors stronger and more established. An intermittent schedule can make people addicted to certain behaviors. If we go to play the slots in Vegas, and we win every now and then, we'll likely get addicted and want to play more and more. That's what they want. They want us to have a thrilling experience making us get more and more dopamine rushes. 

 

Same with a vending machine, if it delivers a snack every time we put a dollar, and then one day it does not, we'll get frustrated that day it doesn't work. So we'll likely kick the machine.. If this works in dislodging the snack, that will reinforce our behavior, so next time, it happens again, you guessed it.... we will likely try kicking again, but that day it doesn't not liberate our holy snack, we'll likely try kicking harder, curse and get even angry ( an extinction burst). If this method stops working though, most likely we'll avoid that vending machine and stop using it altogether. 

 

So on the plus sign, consider that with time (and as she develops more frustration tolerance/impulse control), Atari will come to realize that her tantrums won't get her harness to come magically off or the leash to loosen so that she can get closer to the cats. 

 

However, we don't want her to create negative associations with the harness (glad that she was able to overcome that with the happy walks!) so we may try to take steps to better control the environment next time or maybe even train something that we can use to redirect her quickly. For example, in an area way from the cats, we can train her to make an about turn and walk quickly with us the opposite direction. 

 

This sounds like an emergency u- turn, but being in a home you may not have much space, so let's call it "giving in to leash pressure." In simple words, away from the cats, sit on the couch with your pup on the floor, and when she happens to get at the end of the leash, creating tension on it, looking away trying to get somewhere, make 2-3 kissy sounds and gently guide her back to you tugging very, very lightly on the leash and mark giving in to that pressure and moving in your direction with a yes/click and reward with a treat once she reaches you. Rinse and repeat several times up to the point where she'll move in your direction quickly without the need of your prompt-that is, the gently tugging/putting pressure on the leash. 

 

Practice this in several areas of the home (initially away from the cats) then in the yard, then on walks, and then at home at a distance from the cats. The goal is to catch her *before* she goes overly focused/over threshold upon seeing a cat and redirecting her to walk away from the cats with you and then you can toss a treat always away from the cats. Make it fun and upbeat like a game! (You can initially hold a treat at eye level to help her comply and focus on that)

 

You can also use this when she's at the baby gate off leash, when she's looking at the cats, and you want her to disengage from them. Make your 2-3 kissy sounds and toss a treat away from the gate. 

 

As she gets better, you can put her on an umbilical cord (leash around your waist) so she's always near you and teach her to back up with you away from the cats. Always be aware of where your cats are, and don't allow her to fixate and "hard stare' the cats. 

 

This is a situation that needs to be highly managed and lots of patience is needed. It can sometimes take about 2-3 months for things to get better and when you aren't training, your pup needs to be in a place where all pets are safe and Atari doesn't get to rehearse any problematic behaviors around the cats. Dog and cats will always need to be supervised, kept separated when not, and an additional tier of safety can be obtained by providing cats with high places to retreat to as needed and having the pup drag a leash (so to quickly get a hold of the dog as needed) before allowing off-leash freedom. 

 

Neither of the cats run from her. Our fearless smaller cat walks around and when the gate is between them, she tries to play with Atari's tail (Atari doesn't react as long as we are engaging her). Kora the fearless one just circles the room or goes into her hammock and plays by herself. The other cat will lie in his hammock and go to sleep even if Atari is there but when she starts her screechy yipping, he gets annoyed and walks out. He also does not come into the living room when she is there. They both maintain relaxed body language but Crixus, the older one will either hide under couch (He's the one who escapes and then he realizes she is there and he goes under couch) or just stay away altogether. One day, he escaped, saw her, and ran under couch and I couldn't get him out. She laid down and stared at him but was quiet. I had a meeting so I couldn't do anything else but I put the leash on her and held onto it. Since she was calm, I just left her there. She fell asleep about 20 minutes later and then the cat silently came out and then went back over the gate and I could close the door. 

 

Do your cats appear scared of her or stressed in any way? Only when she is screeching/tantrum or if they escape and she chases them. We have put her on leash and let her get close to them as long as she is calm-ish. like if she gets excited she has to step back. if she goes slowly, we let her step forward. But then once she got close to them. Crixus the big one hissed and puffed up. The little one was fine but then when she started sniffing her super excitedly, she got a little scared and put her ears back. Neither of them swat her or run ever. 

 

Sounds like Crixus will be the one  struggling the most, but this is often seen with the older cats.  I find they are more likely to be settled in their ways and get more easily stressed. I would therefore focus on training a strong response to leash pressure to the point of it being very fluent. Also provide her with food puzzles, chews and brain games so to keep her mind busy and make the cats less interesting. 

 

 During walks now, she wants to sniff and roll around on people's yards and she pulls on the leash. Until now, she was heeling all the time even though she didn't know the word yet. This is from flight stage though, right? Should we just reinforce the heel when she is calm/at home and then make her sit more on the walk until she calms down? 

 

They are more investigative during this time and want to explore more and more. Keep practicing good heeling at home and in the yard, and in front of the home and progress the walk based on how well she is heeling. You can always make some about turns if she's pulling, and if she really wants to sniff something in an area she's allowed to go, you can "Premack it" by letting her go sniff only once she's walking towards that spot on a loose leash. You can give her permission by saying "go sniff!" and then resume the walk by saying "lets go!" 

 

here is more about the premack principle: https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/premack-principle/

 

 If she's pulling towards an grassy area, you can guide her away by walking  in a circle and giving her another opportunity to go sniff if, once completing the circle, she's moving on a loose leash towards the area.

 

Oh, ok, how interesting! She also peed on the mat under her bed (bed and mat underneath used to be our old dog's who passed away in January). We think it's because it smelled like him. We washed it and she has not done it again until this incident with my parent's dog's blanket.  The dog was in the other room because she wouldn't stop barking at him to play and he did not want to play with her. My dad said she walked up to the blanket (he had been separated from her for over an hour) and sniffed it and then squatted and peed on it. We happened to walk in just as she was walking away from the blanket.

 

Was she "empty" before entering the home (peed recently)? Yes, she had been outside for a couple of hours in their yard and he said he had seen her pee. But if she drank a lot of water, that might not matter. 

Was this a little trickle  or more like a larger puddle? It was a normal puddle. 

 

Ok thanks, we'll look for other triggers then. They have a cat as well who just ignores her but she won't stop barking at it so my parents have just been keeping her away from both the cat and older dog. Older dog is like 16 years old and a little white dog who used to live with an old woman before they took him after she died. So he's not very dog-like and just tries to walk away from her but then she paws at him and barks obsessively. My dad can't get her to stop so he just separates them. 

 

It could be she was leaving her pee to confirm her "puppy license to misbehave." Older dogs smell the puppy pee and perceive it as a sign of "innocence" and that whatever the pups do, it is just because they are socially-illiterate juveniles. The older dogs therefore should technically provide them with "license to misbehave" forgiving them more easily, although not all of them grant this. Older dogs may struggle dealing with young pups and they may have joint issues/ mobility issues and their patience tends to run much shorter and they get easily overwhelmed by all that puppy energy.

 

The odor of "dog" seemed to be a trigger in both cases, so she's likely trying to communicate something if she doesn't normally pee on her own blankets at home. 

[CAITLIN FITZGERALD]

Thank you Adrienne! We're going to work on these things some more and implement the new stuff. I appreciate your thorough guidance as always. 🙂

[Adrienne Farricelli]

You're very welcome! Keep us posted on how things go!

Best,

Adrienne