Golden Retriever Suddenly Fighting at Doggie Daycare

[RalphSchafer]

Good day Adrienne, 

My 20-month-old Golden Retriever has started fighting other dogs at doggie daycare. He is neutered and has been going to doggie daycare since he was about four months old. He has been well socialized since he was a puppy and, up until a few weeks ago, was known as the dog that got along with every dog, whether young, old, big, small, male, or female. Until recently, and only at doggie daycare, he has been the quintessential Golden Retriever - friendly towards all. 

A few weeks ago, the first incident was when he attacked a dog that growled at him while a staff owner was petting this dog (he wanted pets too). Then, last week, he attacked one of his best friends who he has played with for months without any issues. His friend (a Rottweiler), did pin him without doing any damage and he ran away frightened. Both altercations were observed and promptly addressed by staff who intervened, and he was separated and put into a timeout. 

I'm puzzled by this sudden aggression. However, I believe it is one of two possible reasons, although it is hard to know for sure. 

First, he has been going to a dog park and has encountered dogs that play very rough. Unfortunately, I was not present to intervene and recall him on those occasions, so I'm wondering if he might be learning inappropriate behavior. 

The other possibility is that he was nipped at doggie daycare a week or so before the first incident of him showing aggression, so the timing leads me to believe it could be the cause. However, the staff does not know whether he instigated it or not. Still, I wonder if he may have been attacked and is now reactive to similar situations. 

I appreciate you cannot offer advice without observing him. Still, I was hoping to get your thoughts on the situation.

And should I pull him out of daycare for the time being? Staff are concerned but have not yet "banned" him and they have noted he is still welcome. However, considering this has occurred two weeks in a row, I'm concerned it will continue. Eventually, he or another dog will be hurt. 

Thank you for any insights you can provide. 

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Hi there, I hope your goldens' TV training is progressing nicely! Please see my observations/tips/ideas in non-bold. 

My 20-month-old Golden Retriever has started fighting other dogs at doggie daycare. He is neutered and has been going to doggie daycare since he was about four months old. He has been well socialized since he was a puppy and, up until a few weeks ago, was known as the dog that got along with every dog, whether young, old, big, small, male, or female. Until recently, and only at doggie daycare, he has been the quintessential Golden Retriever - friendly towards all. 

A few weeks ago, the first incident was when he attacked a dog that growled at him while a staff owner was petting this dog (he wanted pets too). Then, last week, he attacked one of his best friends who he has played with for months without any issues. His friend (a Rottweiler), did pin him without doing any damage and he ran away frightened. Both altercations were observed and promptly addressed by staff who intervened, and he was separated and put into a timeout. 

It's always very upsetting when things like this happen, especially since your dog has a long track record of being super social, and I understand how shocking it may feel when dogs act this way out of the blue. 

[Adrienne Farricelli]

I'm puzzled by this sudden aggression. However, I believe it is one of two possible reasons, although it is hard to know for sure. 

First, he has been going to a dog park and has encountered dogs that play very rough. Unfortunately, I was not present to intervene and recall him on those occasions, so I'm wondering if he might be learning inappropriate behavior. 

The other possibility is that he was nipped at doggie daycare a week or so before the first incident of him showing aggression, so the timing leads me to believe it could be the cause. However, the staff does not know whether he instigated it or not. Still, I wonder if he may have been attacked and is now reactive to similar situations.  I appreciate you cannot offer advice without observing him. Still, I was hoping to get your thoughts on the situation.

Both your suspicions are very valid. Dog parks provide less structure than daycare and it is certainly possible for dogs to learn certain behaviors from other dogs, so he may have "picked up" some rougher play elements that may have "upset" other dogs in daycare. However, your other suspicion sounds even more convincing, considering how dogs may adopt an "the best defense is a good offense" attitude after being nipped, especially if the nip was carried out in a threatening manner (versus just being triggered accidentally by some rough play). 

Too bad that we are missing some important elements about what happened exactly to cause this dog to nip your dog in the first place. However, it is very possible that after this incident, he may be reacting defensively to protect himself from another nip. For instance, in the case of your golden attacking the dog that growled at him while a staff owner was petting this dog, he may have reacted upon hearing him growl in fear or getting another bite. 

If your golden was therefore nipped by the other dog in a threatening manner, consider that being attacked by another dog is an aversive experience that may lead to short-term and long-term consequences. Just seconds after the "attack," the affected dog may be shaky and jumpy as the adrenaline will be pumping. As the dog recuperates from this acute onset, there may be the onset of a negative conditioned emotional response associated with the place where the incident occurred and/or the presence of other dogs.

There are ample stories of even service dogs who have proven their worth in being "bomb-proof dogs" over the years suffering the consequences of an encounter gone wrong and emotionally paying the price. It's as if an imaginary switch flips inside their head. Science calls it "single event learning." Undoing the damage is often quite a bumpy road.  In this service dog story, a 30-second attack turned into two years of rehabilitation.

A negative experience may therefore have an impact on how the dog reacts in the presence of other dogs. A history of an injury is not necessary for such aversive conditioning to take place. I have seen reactions range from avoidance behaviors (the dog no longer wants to play or interact with other dogs or does so very tentatively) to defensive behaviors (again, the dog feels threatened and uses the "offense is the best defense" strategy to maintain distance).

There are then also several dogs sort of in between, where you really don't notice many problems readily, but at some point in the dog's future history of playing or interacting with other dogs, a new issue pops up out of nowhere (e.g., the dog starts growling during an interaction) in a dog who never exhibited this type of issues before.

And should I pull him out of daycare for the time being? Staff are concerned but have not yet "banned" him and they have noted he is still welcome. However, considering this has occurred two weeks in a row, I'm concerned it will continue. Eventually, he or another dog will be hurt. Thank you for any insights you can provide. 

This is a good question. Firstly we may want to have a vet visit done just to ensure nothing medically is going on. 

What happened in the fight with the Rottweiler? Did he bite after he was pinned down? I see he ran away, but don't know what happened prior to that exactly,  and if he did manage to bite too.

How is your golden's over all bite inhibition? Has he left any marks on the dogs?

Are there any dog trainers on staff at this daycare?

Is this the daycare he has been going to since being a young puppy?

Have they made any suggestions on what they can do to prevent future incidents? Like not petting other dogs in presence of other dogs?

Do they by any chance happen to record play sessions so that videos of incidents like this can be watched afterward?

Your concerns are very valid, as we don't want anymore fights to occur. Based on the info provided, it seems like the chances for repeated incidents are quite high so I would consider at least taking a break for now. 

[RalphSchafer]

Hi Adrienne, 

Thank you so much for that thorough response, that was helpful. 

To answer your questions: 

What happened in the fight with the Rottweiler? Did he bite after he was pinned down? I see he ran away, but don't know what happened prior to that exactly,  and if he did manage to bite too.

- My understanding from staff was that he reacted aggressively during play and he instigated the attack by biting, however they only saw the beginning of the altercation - they did not see what led up to it. What triggered the attack is unknown. The Rottweiler did bite him and left some marks while he had him pinned down. The staff member called the Rottweiler off, and Bailey (Golden) ran off scared, so he did not bite afterwards or during, but he did instigate the encounter. 

- In the attack during the petting incident, he did bite the dog that was being petted after it growled at him. 

How is your golden's over all bite inhibition? Has he left any marks on the dogs?

- My understanding is that he has not left any marks on the dogs, that they were both fine with no marks. 

Are there any dog trainers on staff at this daycare?

- Not to my knowledge. There is a dog trainer about 30 minutes away that does work at a doggie daycare, so I was contemplating reaching out to her but I'm unsure of putting him into a facility with strange dogs, considering the recent events. 

Is this the daycare he has been going to since being a young puppy?

- Yes, he has been going weekly since 4 months old, with no prior issues. The Rottweiler and him have played together as puppies, and up to last week were the best of friends. 

Have they made any suggestions on what they can do to prevent future incidents? Like not petting other dogs in presence of other dogs?

- No suggestions were made, which I found a bit concerning to be honest. 

Do they by any chance happen to record play sessions so that videos of incidents like this can be watched afterward?

- They do have cameras in monitoring all areas of the daycare. However, I'm not sure if they record the play sessions. I will inquire. 

Your concerns are very valid, as we don't want anymore fights to occur. Based on the info provided, it seems like the chances for repeated incidents are quite high so I would consider at least taking a break for now. 

- Thank you, that confirms my feelings. I have never subscribed to the notion that "dogs will work things out for themselves". 

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Thank you for the extra details, very helpful!

So this confirms that something must have happened that changed how your golden perceives other dogs. I think the extra details further point to the assumption that the nip from the other dog may have precipitated things leading to a snowball effect. Perhaps something about how the Rottweiler was playing was being misinterpreted as a threat triggering defensiveness. 

Yet, we can't know with 100 percent certainty, as there can be other factors at play. For instance, if a dog has an underlying medical issue such as underlying  pain then that can lower a dog's threshold for acting defensive making them more likely to react.

We also need to factor in, that in several dogs, things change once they reach the adolescent stage and become socially mature.

 https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/survive-dogs-adolescent-stage/

Also, we must consider trigger stacking. Trigger stacking takes place when a dog is stressed from something and then something else sums up to it, causing a cumulative effect, and this makes them more reactive. 

It's good news that Bailey seems to have great bite inhibition. That is a big plus for these cases. 

So I think at this point, giving him a break from daycare is important so to prevent things from further snowballing. 

Even though dogs can into scuffles where there is more loud noise than injuries, in some cases, these scuffles can have a deep emotional impact from which it can become challenging to recover. 

At this point, removing him from daycare for some time can help prevent things from getting worse. It's important that you protect your dog from any future negative encounters that may further cause stress. Keep in mind that stress levels may take several days to go down, so protect your dog from certain close encounters until your dog is ready.

It's fundamental during this recovery time to prevent off-leash dog encounters. While this safe "buffer of space" is not the treatment for undoing emotional damage, it's a good starting point so that your dog relaxes and trusts you to handle the issue.

After some time, you can then carefully assess your dog's comfort levels with having other dogs walking on leash nearby, including dogs of different ages, sex, sizes, coat colors and energy levels. Keep an eye for any subtle signs of stress. https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/signs-fear-stress-dogs/

If a certain pattern is noticed (like your dog doesn't like male dogs or isn't comfortable with dogs who are bouncy or a bit hyper) you then have the basis on what to specifically work on. If instead he reacts to every type of dog, that can be sign that the issue has generalized so you'll need a more generalized approach.

You can therefore set up some specific desensitization and counterconditioning situations so to gradually extinguish the patterns found. 

Desensitization involves exposing the dog systematically to his triggers. In order to work well, in a good desensitization program the dog needs to be kept as much as possible under threshold. Here's the meaning of threshold:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/threshold-levels/

Here is a read on desensitization: 

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/desensitization/

Here is a read on counterconditioning:

Counterconditioning involves creating positive associations with the dog's triggers. In order to work well, a good counterconditioning program incorporates things the dog finds very reinforcing provided contingent upon the exposure to the trigger. Here is a read on counterconditioning:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/counterconditioning/

Start by training a fluent response to the smacking sound:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/the-airplane-game/the-smacking-sound/

Then use that for Look at That Exercises done every time you see another dog from a window, then on walks, making a smacking sound and feeding treats every time a dog walks by from a distance where your dog is better under threshold:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/university/look-at-that/

the goal is to repeatedly present the triggers with something perceived by the dog as pleasant such as food to the point of the trigger becoming a predictor of great things, creating what is known as a positive "conditioned emotional response (CER)."

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/conditioned-emotional-response-cer/

If your dog at any time reacts, take that as a sign that he has been exposed to a too intense situation. Take a step back and increase further distance from the trigger.

Once you have positive CER, you can then work on closer encounters going very slowly. After some time, as your dog seems more relaxed, he may be able to progress to closer encounters with other dogs. I asked if you have a daycare run by dog trainers (make sure they are force-free) as they can help with re-introductions and hopefully a remedial socialization program. Basically, they may use their own "teacher dogs" or carefully screened dogs to ensure everything stays positive and help out in the process.

For sake of comparison, the process is similar to attending a Toastmasters' meeting for those folks with a terror of public speaking. In these meetings, people are encouraged to speak in a safe, supportive environment where they don't feel rejected or ridiculed.

Dogs suitable for such encounters are often super socialized dogs, dogs who have met countless dogs and who know how to properly interact. Ideally, these are dogs who are very adept at reading other dogs and delivering the right body language. These "teacher dogs" dogs should be masters in sending calming signals to fearful, tentative dogs.

Your dog needs to feel safe and relaxed so to create good memories. Creating several positive emotional responses is important so to replace the negative ones. Always end the sessions on a positive note, praising your dog lavishly so that these new events help at least partially take the edge off the fearful memories. Slow and steady wins the race in behavior modification, so it's important working at the dog's pace. You can then very gradually work on introducing him back slowly to dogs in a very structured and managed way. 

Now,  not all dogs are ready to interact with other dogs and play again after being nipped/attacked. The dog trainer/ behavior consultant should be able to assess your dog for signs of tension. If the assessment reveals that your dog is tense around other dogs, then prior to scheduling positive interactions such as play and walks with other dogs, more behavior modification may need to be carried out to better manage and protect your dog's emotional wellbeing.

I hope this help Bailey feel more comfortable. 

Let me know if you have any questions/concerns. 

 

[JMFS]

Poor Bailey, and poor you!  I know well how it feels to be dealing with a less-than-ideal behavior issue.

In addition to what Adrienne has already offered, I can say from our experience that having a trainer on hand along with the other dogs makes all the difference.  Most dog trainers, especially Behaviorists, are versed in dog language (ears, tail, shoulders, mouth, eyes - combined, it all tells them a story).  After our recent board and train experience I would feel comfortable having my dog with other dogs as long as a trainer was there 24/7 to observe, intervene, and train.  I'm about to update our story.  If you'd like to take a peek it's titled, "Esther Shares, Gertie Does Not," I believe (or something close).

[RalphSchafer]

Thanks for the input Adriene and JMFS (I'll check out your story). 

I was waiting to see how the last two weeks went before updating. We chatted with the daycare, and the owner said based on the video review it appeared that Bailey may have issues with male dogs, although he noted it might also be the intensity of play coupled with "too many" dogs (overstimulation leading to overwhelm). The facility is separated into multiple areas. The main outdoor area is very large and houses most of the bigger, younger male dogs and the play in that area can get very exuberant. The main area also has a large number of dogs. 

The owner kept him under close supervision the last two weeks and placed him in the side where there are far fewer dogs. The dogs on the "other side" are where the smaller and gentler dogs are placed and that can include older puppies and some older dogs. That side also has more females than males. Apparently, Bailey gravitates to the females dogs and there has no issues since placing him in this area. Today, he played with a female adolescent German Shepherd (very exuberantly, as she is a bouncy and energetic girl) with no issues. Last week, it was an older female Golden Retriever, and again no issues. 

Interestingly, when I think about his encounters at the dog park, any issues (growling and piloerection) has always been directed at males that are not fixed. He played with them fine until they tried mounting him, which is when he took exception. 

I'm still trying to seek out a qualified dog trainer, and I may have found CPDT-KA an hour from where I live, but I have not yet vetted them. 

 

[JMFS]

So he's a ladies man!  😆  Have you tried the Pet Professional Guild for a trainer?  Here's the link for a zip code search.  https://www.petprofessionalguild.com/Zip-Code-Search

[Adrienne Farricelli]

I was waiting to see how the last two weeks went before updating. We chatted with the daycare, and the owner said based on the video review it appeared that Bailey may have issues with male dogs, although he noted it might also be the intensity of play coupled with "too many" dogs (overstimulation leading to overwhelm). The facility is separated into multiple areas. The main outdoor area is very large and houses most of the bigger, younger male dogs and the play in that area can get very exuberant. The main area also has a large number of dogs. 

Recordings in these cases can provide helpful details as such. Stress or too much stimulation is one big cause for dog fights to erupt and in day cares is an issue considering that during the day dogs may not get sufficient breaks for rest and sleep. Videos of the dog's behavior before the fight can also provide clues as to whether he may have gotten too overstimulated or stressed. 

The owner kept him under close supervision the last two weeks and placed him in the side where there are far fewer dogs. The dogs on the "other side" are where the smaller and gentler dogs are placed and that can include older puppies and some older dogs. That side also has more females than males. Apparently, Bailey gravitates to the females dogs and there has no issues since placing him in this area. Today, he played with a female adolescent German Shepherd (very exuberantly, as she is a bouncy and energetic girl) with no issues. Last week, it was an older female Golden Retriever, and again no issues. 

I am glad that some steps were taken to reduce the chances for further incidents. Female-male combinations often work out, since in general male dogs are more forgiving and accepting of certain behaviors from female dogs. 

Interestingly, when I think about his encounters at the dog park, any issues (growling and piloerection) has always been directed at males that are not fixed. He played with them fine until they tried mounting him, which is when he took exception. 

In intact males the levels of testosterone starts to rise just prior to puberty, around the ages of 4 to 6 months old, and then reaches a surge once they reach puberty, generally between 6 and 12 months. Afterwards, testosterone levels maintain a state of little or no change up to five years old and then those levels start gradually declining when the dog becomes senior.

In intact males, testosterone provides a certain “maleness” smell, which, coupled with certain behaviors, may cause neutered dogs to act defensively. We therefore have some anecdotal evidence that when an intact male dog enters a dog park there is tension in the air and they are often attacked by neutered dogs.

[RalphSchafer]

Thanks Adrienne for the additional information. 

Since your last post, we decided to pull Bailey from the daycare. During the summer season it gets very busy due to vacations and weekend getaways. On the last occasion we had Bailey there, they placed him back into the general population (haha) due to how busy they were and upon picking him up at the end of the day we noticed he had an large open gash on his lip that required a course of antibiotics.

Of course, it could have occurred as a result of exuberant play but the fact that he sustained an injury that coincided with the facility placing him on the side where he's had all his past issues, was enough for me to make the decision to keep him out permanently.  It was evident to me at this point that continuing to bring him to the facility was going to lead to a more serious injury, it was just a matter of time.  That decision was further reinforced when I happened to chat with another dog owner at the dog park whose dog required multiple stitches due to a fight at the same facility.  In retrospect, I should have listened to my gut, and pulled him a long time ago as I sensed he was having issues even before the first fight (cue the guilt). 

Since then I have found another daycare. We have not had him there yet (the trainer would like to meet him and interact with him first), but I was quite surprised by the stark contrast with the protocols of this facility compared to the other. First they have a full-time trainer (force free, positive-based) at the facility. Secondly, there is someone personally supervising the dogs at all times, usually multiple staff members if it is quite busy. The staff personally monitor the dogs and often interact with them, but at no time are the dogs left unsupervised. As well, they incorporate video should an incidence occur that requires further review and investigation. The staff members and owners were shocked that the previous facility did not supervise the dogs and left them to their own devices.  

The downside is it's a 30 minute drive, so we're looking at other options such as play dates with dogs we know he gets along well with. 

Thanks again, for all the help and advice!! 

 

[JMFS]

Wow, that sounds like a serious upgrade!  Good call on the switch to a different facility.  I know how you feel about the drive.  We're in central Florida and Everything is 20 minutes away, or more.  Heading out of town is always fun.  Abbi goes here, Gertie goes there, and Esther will go to her board and train trainer.  Thankfully they're all at least the same general area as the airport.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Sounds like you found a really nice facility! It's great to hear that they do assessments prior to just accepting any dog. These screenings along with careful monitoring can help a lot in finding out what dogs may stir trouble. Of course, as with child daycare, there are always certain risks for incidents, but at least they're minimized. It sounds like they do everything they can to prevent them and those recordings can turn very valuable.