Mo's Escalating Behavior

[JMFS]

When we were playing fetch last week Momo detoured and went over to something in the yard and started eating it. Not knowing if it could be dangerous (lots of mushrooms currently - we try to pick them all but we miss some and mushrooms are tricky to identify) I tried to get him to drop it. He would not obey "leave it" and when I went to move him with my legs by walking into him (I never use my hand, my leg is a lot better protected and tougher to bite) he attacked. No blood was drawn and I don't have any marks, but he did get his teeth on my arm and he was baring teeth after. I felt like he wasn't Trying to bite, only showing out, but he sure was angry. After we got away from the whatever it was and he seemed calm I went to get his collar to take him to the back yard because he still wasn't listening to commands and he attacked again. He also chased Gertie after he tried to bite me (naturally, she came over to investigate the hubbub).

 

I've been able to manage it with "leave it" until this incident. I don't know if it's age, he's only 8 and all the breeds he's made of are said to have lifespans of 12-15 years, or what, but he's escalating. He snapped at our pool guy a few weeks back when he tried to greet Momo as I was feeding Mo (I usually get the feeding done before he gets there but he showed up early that day). My husband said Mo's been aggressive with the riding lawnmower, biting and barking at it, when the guys come to mow, and that's something he didn't do previously. I thought with my husband out there Mo would be okay. Not so much. Two weeks after Gertie came home, so April / May, one of the yard guys told me he felt like Momo was stalking him that day. He said he normally doesn't turn his back to dogs, but he'd gotten comfortable with Momo. He said that day he'd turn around and Mo would be hunched down, inching closer. I told him to knock on the door so I could put Momo inside before they get started, but he declined saying it would be fine. Our front yard is gated and fenced, then there's another fence and gate to the backyard, which is where Momo hangs out. I do bring him in when I hear the lawnmower. He's up to date with all his shots and he's due for his 6-month comprehensive exam this month so I'll be sure to mention all this to his Veterinarian, too. I'm also going to ask them for a behaviorist reference. It's Banfield so I know they'll have names.

 

Do you think this could have anything to do with Gertie coming on board? They get along so well and these incidents are occurring when she's not around (save for today) so *I* would say no, but I'm throwing it in the hat as a potential trigger. She does have a couple marks on her from where he's gotten too rough so I'm limiting play as well now. After I called them in yesterday Mo tried to bite her ankles and I stepped between them and put my hand on his neck to push him away. He did nothing about that other than to sit down. That tells me it's a resource issue at this point and Gertie's not considered a resource.

 

Thankfully he's only 34 lbs and I can physically handle him, but if he ever did sneak one in on someone it would be a decent injury, and no one wants that. I don't get it - I have no issues with the other dogs, only him. Okay, Abbi goes Cujo on Gertie when Gertie slams her paw on top of Abbi, or jumps on her. I'd get ticked off if my husband stepped on me or fly eagled on me without warning and then kept bouncing around all over me. I'd do something about it, too, so I get Abbi's reaction. It's scary and frustrating because it's become unpredictable (to me - though an expert might think I'm an idiot for missing the signs). Sometimes he's fine with "leave it" and using my legs to walk him away from whatever it is if he won't back up on his own. Other times he flips out. I'm not timid - I face confrontation, but I Am fearful of making it worse so I'm leaving him be, and limiting potential contentious situations, as much as I can. It boils down to this: my little guy is a psycho jerk sometimes and after 8 years I've finally reached my breaking point. I feel it's no longer manageable and I'm having a heck of a time finding a non-alpha behaviorist around here.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Hello Jennifer,

I am so sorry this incident happened. It sure sounds like a resource-guarding issue. If Momo usually listens to "leave it" maybe the "leave it" this time came too late (leave it works usually before the dog has the item in his mouth) or this was a very high-valued resource and he wasn't trained around this level of high-value distraction yet (which can be challenging at times, as with certain items, we don't have much opportunity to practice around with!) With a reaction as such, perhaps it was a bone or carcass of some animal that stank to high heavens.

 

In any case, it's something that needs to be tackled or it risks getting worse. You ask whether Gertie's recent addition may have played a role in this behavior. It might not since you mention these episodes don't normally happen when she is around, but sometimes a new addition can cause stress in dogs (especially anxious dogs prone to resoure guard) and this may cause them to be more "on edge" around their environment and around their perceived resources. Sometimes they may get confused too (eg. startling them from behind when they have a resource may cause a bite because they think it's the other dog trying to steal their item).

 

A behavior modification plan for a case as such may entail first a vet visit to rule medical disorders that decrease a dog's threshold for aggression, followed then by a desensitization and counterconditioning program to reduce the anxiety associated with the threat of losing access to an item. Some work on counterconditioning collar grabs may be needed as well (eg. dog is presented with a low value resource, owner grabs collar gently and feeds a high-value treat). However, voice control is safer than any physical intervention as with physical intervention (e.g. collar grab, arm or leg reaching out to remove item, moving the dog away, attempts to pry mouth open) there are always risks for evoking a startle response.

 

Management of the environment, limiting exposure to strangers in the property other than in a structured setting ( like keeping the dog on leash around people and asking for alternate behaviors to replace the unwanted ones) and training fluent responses to re-direction (like response to a smacking sound, to the point of having the dog almost reflexively respond to it before the onset of an unwanted behavior) are also important. Of course, every behavior consultant may offer different approaches, but desensitization and counterconditioning are often at the base.

 

Here are some reads on the prevention, management and possible ameliorating of resource guarding and behavior modification in case you haven't read through them yet :

 

Leave it: this is more for training dogs who aren't resource guarders yet but the purpose is to teach the dog the advantages of leaving stuff: https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/obedience-101/take-leave-it/

 

Drop it: this is more for training dogs who aren't resource guarders yet but the purpose is to teach the dog the advantages of leaving stuff and reduce the anxiety of losing access to items: https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/obedience-101/drop-it/

 

This applies to how to trade for toys, but can be applied to anything dogs may resource guard:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/overprotective-of-toys/

 

Desensitization:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/desensitization/

 

Counterconditioning:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/counterconditioning/

 

I hope Banfield will be able to refer you to the right professional. You can find also several force-free consultants from the Pet Professional Guild website which has a directory of behavior consultants tackling aggresssion. Seeing a professional for an in-person evaluation and guidance is important for safety and correct implementation of behavior modification.

 

Hope this helps!

Edited October 9, 2018 by Adrienne Farricelli

[JMFS]

Thank you, Adrienne. Wouldn't you know, that place that does the lure coursing and dock jumping is the only result I got in my area. I've gone full circle, lol. I sent an email and already received a response. :) I gave them a good long read with all the details and will keep you posted!

[JMFS]

$50 for an at-home consultation and they'll apply that to a training package if we move forward. I said, "heck yes, please." Now I just wait for the behaviorist to contact me - I've been speaking to the owner of the Dog Ranch where they do all the events.

[JMFS]

Thursday at 5:00 pm we have our consultation. Both pooches go to Banfield for their comprehensive exams tomorrow morning as well. I'm a little nervous because I know some of the training methods I tried lead to this behavior and her web site says,

 

My methods are based on science and proven facts. I despise the term “Alpha”, and dread ANY forceful techniques of training. Top Dogs Day Training is a Force Free, Pain Free, Fear Free organization, based on the POSITIVE aspects of training ONLY."

 

Yikes. Despise and dread are Strong words. Maybe I'll get brownie points for never using a prong, choke, shock, or slip collar, and for making a switch to a more respectful training method. I'll turn on my best winning personality, just in case. :o

 

https://www.topdogsdaytraining.com/

 

I don't know how y'all do it, Adrienne. Starting over from square one time and time again. How do you handle frustration (or do you even get frustrated?).

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Jennifer,

Good luck on your vet visit and behavior consultation! Please don't feel intimidated by the use of the terminology on the website. Most dog trainers/behavior consultants who use force-free approaches for dogs, use them with people too :)

[JMFS]

Everything checked out at the Vet's. She suggested age as a potential contributing factor, saying some dogs hit the senior stage faster than others. She said there were other tests we could run to rule out brain issues and recommended a food by Purina called Neuro Care. She suggested I meet with the Behaviorist before going through tests. She also confirmed that it's simply difficult to find a dog Behaviorist in this town. Horses are Totally covered (we're in the Horse Capital), but dog trainers are tougher to come by. There's the University of Florida that has a presence here where they take care of pet emergencies, and she said that's usually where they refer folks for behavior modification. Doc said if this gal works for me to let her know so she can get familiar and begin referring folks.

 

To give you an idea of the mentality around here - the Vet told me how she alpha rolled one of her dogs when he tried to bite her and he hasn't tried biting since then. That's the kind of advice that got us to where we're at. :( It's hard to find quality trainers!

 

In better news - PetSmart had their Halloween stuffed squeaky toys on sale for $1.97 each so I stocked up. There was a white egret on the roof of my car when we came outside. Both dogs behaved and ignored it - bonus points!

 

Next update will be tomorrow or Friday. Here's to hoping she uses non-alpha methods on humans. :D

[JMFS]

Well, I made it through unscathed. Not so much as a rolled up newspaper was brandished. :)

 

She agreed Mo would do well with lure coursing so I'll be watching for that to come available again with this cooler weather.

 

I'll be getting an email from her outlining her observations and what course of action she thinks will get us to a happier Mo. The only thing that concerned me was when the dogs were barking and jumping she kept saying "that's okay." It's not okay - they should have better manners! I've redoubled my efforts with Gertie this week and I feel we've made progress the last couple days with "drop," "sit," and "wait." She was excellent with "sit" today - and when I say sit, I mean sit even when my husband comes home and her tail is wagging her body. The Zuke's duck and my homemade treats are a hit and she's been very responsive with those involved. So, when the trainer said it was "okay," I was a little wary that she might be too accepting of poor etiquette, but we'll see. You can't sum up a person or a dog in just one visit or action!

 

Mo was a charmer, sitting, playing dead, perking his ears, and giving good eye contact. Initially he was all excited, but he calmed down until the trainer got animated with a story. He started pacing from her to the door and back again. She took quick notice and calmed things down. He took treats from her politely and kept coming back to be pet. That's pretty normal for him, though. He's only a devil when food is a "free" resource and he "claims" it as his own. Her assessment on initial contact is that he's nowhere near the worst case she's seen (which I figured) and she agrees we should nip the resource guarding in the bud. She also confirmed what I've always thought - Momo needs a job. We just need to figure out what that job is. Her interest was piqued when I mentioned how Mo herds Gertie when Gertie is ignoring me, and how he looks to me for confirmation before he just does it.

 

That's where we stand for now. :)

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Thanks for the update. I find it a bit odd about the "that's OK" in reference to the jumping and barking, but perhaps she said so because she wanted to just assess today and see how the dogs act in their natural environment or another possibility that comes to mind is that perhaps the "that's OK" was more in reference to you, just not to be being overly concerned about your dog's behavior in her presence. I am guilty of that too at times, if a client's dog jumps on me and the owner is super apologetic or tries to correct the dog, I'll say something along the lines of "that's OK, don't worry about it." Usually, I will turn my back to the dog to not give any form of attention and then we may discuss on ways to reduce this behavior in the future and perhaps even practice some polite greetings if there are no more pressing issues to tackle first. Glad to hear you have made so much progress with Gertie sitting under heavy distractions and that Mo was so well-behaved. Congrats!

[JMFS]

My Behaviorist gal just left and we had a good session. She had 17 steps for us to follow and we went through those three times. She was flummoxed by how quickly he picked up on the tasks, lol. I'll maintain my statement - he's über smart. She didn't want to move too fast, though, so I'll practice these steps daily until our session next week. She said she's tempted to up the ante, but she's going to hold herself back because we don't want to have to go back to square one, or before. Momo was great until she started rubbing his back and chest and spoke to him excitedly. He Finally showed his devilish side and growled a little. Thank goodness, not that I wanted him to get upset, but it was good that she got to see that I'm not practicing Munchhausen by Proxy by making up this issue!

 

Mo really charmed her - she loved his eye contact, perked ears, and head tilt. He sure does look cute for such a sometimes mean dog. She complimented me on doing a great job with training sit, stay, focus, etc . . . because he did those perfectly, regardless of who was asking for the behavior. She said he's the kind of dog someone would pay good money for because he'd excel at sports. Then she told me, "don't you dare sell him!" I told her not to worry - I've invested 8 years into that knucklehead, no one else is getting him. However, if someone wanted to borrow him to do sports a few hours here and there I'd be fine with that. She laughed - she was on to me - she knew he'd come home tired. :D I showed her how I exercise him some days. I let him out of the lanai (screen room) and he ran around it, through the gate, then burst through the dog door. She was amazed at how quick he was. She thought he'd slow down for the dog door, but nope, he's like a torpedo through that thing. We've had to replace it already because that boy doesn't know the meaning of "slow." We talked about his hyper focus on the ball for fetch, and she suggested a way to help his impulse control would be to use a lower value item to retrieve, eventually working back up to the ball.

 

It was very nice to have my efforts noticed, and complimented, by a certified trainer. I think he's going to present a challenge because the cookie cutter approach to this is (potentially) going to be too slow to where he loses interest or goes "over threshold" because he's bored. However, after one session we can't be sure - it's entirely possible he could get tripped up by the next phase and this first one was too easy because I already have him sit and wait until I say "ok" before he can eat. Once we put food in that bowl he might show out. I felt better about my own struggles with him because she was scratching her head, too, when he nailed each step. I do think as the challenges increase he'll display some of his less lovable traits and we may get stuck on a step.

 

She had me feed him before she got there, and that's my instruction for each lesson. Here's a kind of recap of what we did (the sheet is in the other room so I'm going by memory), we repeated each step 4-5 times before moving to the next:

 

Touch the bowl, tell him to sit, treat

Touch the bowl, wait until he sits without a command, treat

Touch the bowl, wait for the sit, take away the bowl, treat

Walk away, have him sit, approach the bowl, touch the bowl, treat

Walk away, have him sit, approach the bowl, touch the bowl, take away the bowl, treat

Walk away, have him sit, approach the bowl from his side, take away the bowl, treat

Switch sides, repeat

Walk away, have him sit, approach the bowl from behind him, take away the bowl, treat

 

There were more steps, but that was the gist of it. After we went through the routine a few times she decided we'd go off script and we practiced targeting (okay, she and Momo practiced it, haha). I think she was enjoying his company, enthusiasm, and responsiveness.

 

Throughout he was taking the treats rougher than usual so I threw in my "easy" reminder a couple times. He would simmer down a little, but then he'd go back to being grabby. I also know his body language Very well and saw signs a couple times that he was "over threshold" with the targeting but she's still getting to know him so she didn't notice until he air snapped a couple times, after which she brought him back down to a workable level. He's subtle with his indicators, but she'll pick up on them quickly as she gets familiar with him. I feel good about tonight's session. After just one lesson he's not cured. Surprise! By the end of it we were both covered in slobber (he's not a drooler, by he manages to slime things up) and his bowl slipped from my hand a couple times to where I couldn't pick it up, haha. I'm sure we're going to be choking on the air tonight after all those treats he ate. He Might be put on 'possum / raccoon patrol tonight instead of coming inside. :eek:

 

PS: Every time I type "over threshold" I can hear your advice in my head, lol. That's why it gets quotation marks. ;) If there's One thing you've taught me, it's that dogs need to be Under threshold to learn.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Thanks for the update! Those exercises sound like an excellent start for a desensitization and counterconditioning program. Slow and steady wins the race when it comes to behavior modification. Hopefully, the air won't be too polluted tonight ;) Always love reading your posts.

Best,

Adrienne

[JMFS]

Yesterday was session #2. She might start taking Mo for a couple hours here and there to teach him fly ball. I don't have big enough chunks of time to do it and she wants to learn more about fly ball training so it would benefit us both. She has good rapport with him and goes on about how she loves how food motivated he is (which is why we have our little issue, lol). I've said more than a few times Mo's talents were wasted on me and this just may be a way to make up for that. How cool would that be?!

 

She said we skipped several steps again because he caught on quickly; however . . . we had to take his excitement level down a couple times. We tested last week's training by her walking around and causing distractions while I went through the series. We passed. Yesterday's sequences were a little more complex than last week's so I was also less clear in my communication to Mo as to what was expected. When we traded places he did great. She said I need to trust him to do the right thing. I guess I'm in training, too. :D

 

What we landed on is me practicing the following with him:

 

1. When I step towards the bowl he should sit, I take the bowl (no touching it first this time), give him a treat, put the bowl down, reset

2. I step towards the bowl, he sits, praise, I take the bowl, treat, I put a treat in the bowl and set the bowl down, step back and immediately step forward

3. Repeat step 2, but put 2 treats in the bowl instead of just one so it takes him longer to eat

4. Repeat step 3 but he should leave the bowl alone, sit, and wait for me to say it's okay again

It didn't happen in just one session, naturally, and I'm having to tell him to wait - I think this is going to be a challenge

 

We also got stuck because the treats were were clinging to my hands. I was also unsure of the steps and I was missing cues so he was getting confused. It was like the first time dancers learn their next group performance. This girl goes to the right and this guy goes to the left and they collide while someone else is completely off on timing and it's mayhem while they're learning the dance. They go home to practice, come back and it goes Much better. To further compact the issues, he gets so excited that he starts taking treats roughly and even nicked my finger so I started tossing them to him - he's an expert treat catcher; however, that served to increase his excitement so I had to keep changing tact which disrupted the pace / flow. We slowed it down and went back to step 2 for a bit so I'll work on 2 - 4 this week. With training friendly treats. Li'l Smokies divided into sixths were a good idea, but I didn't factor in how fatty they are and they started sticking to my hands. Fortunately for us he'd be overjoyed with leaves if they were flavored, so it's not difficult to come up with a high value reward. Perhaps I'll get chicken breasts and cook those up, keep half out and freeze half. Thankfully the air was easy to breathe last night!

 

She was surprised to hear that Momo would still go for another 2 hours even after all that training. I sent her a video of his "zoomies" after she left as proof of his stamina. She thinks that while he'd enjoy lure coursing he'd be happier with agility courses, fly ball, or even frisbee fetches. My old man could run circles around the young pups (and he does - Gertie gets tired before Momo).

 

---------------------

I typed that last night but life happened so I'm finishing this afternoon. We went through the first half of the lesson after this morning's feeding and it went Much smoother. I knew the steps and I kept the excitement to a minimum - it was all business. Zuke's minis to the rescue! As an aside, Li'l Smokies Are excellent motivators - Gertie completely ignored the squirrels yesterday. This morning I had the peanut butter pumpkin treats I'd made and that little toot did Great right up until she went to the furthest part of the yard and a squirrel twitched. Game over. I ceased to exist in her world. This is going to take a loooooong time to train.

 

Anyway, back to Momo. This afternoon I'll do the training again and have enough treats to go to step 3. We only reached 1 treat in the bowl this morning because I wanted to get it down pat before prolonging his time with the bowl. Oh, and he Did wait this time. I took her advice and let him look at the treat in the bowl and after he assessed the situation with his eyes he looked to me for the release. Whew!

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Thanks so much for the update. It sounds like things are progressing nicely. If he wasn't ever used to hear you say "OK" to release him to eat, it may take a bit for him to learn the new rules of the house. Rushing to the food bowl when the food bowl is put down can also be a part of a dog's resource guarding behavior repertoire (on top of just being a hungry dog) as the dog tries to eat quickly so to prevent anybody from stealing his meal. So it may take a bit for him to learn that waiting a little bit doesn't mean losing his meal.

 

Caution when progressing to chicken, it may be too valuable for dogs prone to resource guard. Maybe check with your trainer if he's ready for working around such high-value food and mention to her if you notice challenges with him being unable to wait, just to play it safe.

 

So nice of her to offer taking him to learn flyball! He should love that.

 

Don't be discouraged by Gertie's squirrel chasing. "Ooops" moments can happen and one day one may see progress and then a setback the day after. It seems though as if she was doing OK with the Li'l Smokies. I wonder if the setback may have occurred due to the use of peanut butter pumpkin treats (maybe she finds the other treats higher value?) or the fact that she was at the furthest part of the yard and she was too over threshold and at a distance from you to make a good decision. Distance is always a challenge in dog training/behavior modification.

Edited November 18, 2018 by Adrienne Farricelli

[JMFS]

Good point about switching treats. Those Li'l Smokies are just so nasty to handle. Publix had buy one get one free chicken breasts so I baked those and will be cutting them up after they cool. I did a test run with Gertie and while she was interested those dang Li'l Smokies must have puppy crack in them because she was much more interested when I had those. Maybe I can toss the chicken with the juice from the Smokies.

 

For Momo I was thinking of doing a hybrid kind of thing - instead of putting the high value treat in the bowl, I thought perhaps putting his kibble there might help with showing him whatever I have is by far better than what's in his bowl. I'll throw that question her way, too, before I implement. That Seems intuitive to me because the exercise is to get him to want to do what I ask because I'm cooler than kibble. It might be easier to get him to break away from kibble than a high value reward, like you mentioned. I need three hands! Our usual feeding routine was me going outside and if he wasn't already waiting at his bowl, I'd call him. I'd ask him to sit, pick up the bowl, fill it, put it down, wait for however long (I varied it) and then tell him "Okay." It's after I say "okay" that he's a problem because now that's His food. I think the extra distraction and heightened excitement contributed to him not waiting. I'm normally pretty calm when I feed him because he tends to get amped up if I'm energetic about it.

 

I'll tell on myself - I was still so upset about the incident in the yard that the next day I sure did toss his food into the yard. The grass had just been mowed and I was holding a grudge. That stinker Loved it - he had the time of his life nosing around for the food. If we didn't run a high risk for fire ants around here I'd have switched to that method! It's a tactic I use sometimes when Gertie is ho humming about instead of going potty. I'll get her attention and toss the treat a couple feet into the grass. Works every time - once she's in the grass sniffing around she's ready to do her business. :D Dogs are so bizarre sometimes.

 

[edit] She gave the thumb's up for using kibble as the bowl treat and cautioned me to go slow. No worries about that. Tempting though it may be to forge forward, one good session does not mean we have it down pat!

Edited November 19, 2018 by JenniferM.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

For Momo I was thinking of doing a hybrid kind of thing - instead of putting the high value treat in the bowl, I thought perhaps putting his kibble there might help with showing him whatever I have is by far better than what's in his bowl. I'll throw that question her way, too, before I implement. That Seems intuitive to me because the exercise is to get him to want to do what I ask because I'm cooler than kibble. It might be easier to get him to break away from kibble than a high value reward, like you mentioned.

 

That is a great idea, this is usually what I do, but each case can be different.

Yup, slow and steady wins the race in behavior modification! You are doing very well.

Thanks for the update. Sends pats to your dogs from me.

And Happy Thanksgiving!

[JMFS]

Happy turkey day to you and yours. :) Give those beautiful dogs of yours pets from me.

[JMFS]

We had another incident last night. With the weather getting colder Momo is coming in earlier so more contentious situations are presented with this change in schedule. He was in the crate happily working on a Kong. Gertie and I came into the room and Gertie was a little excited. Neither of us were having Anything to do with Momo, but he sure did interject himself into our gleeful play by hovering over his Kong, snarling, growling and baring teeth. Took us by surprise, even Gertie looked at him like, "what the?" It's at these points I'm completely unsure what to do. Stand my ground? Retreat (I think this would reinforce the behavior because it gives him what he wants)? Advance (I'm pretty sure this is a tactic that contributed to our current status)?

 

I stood my ground. It took about 3 minutes for him to stop the noise, but he was still acting possessively of his Kong. After he relaxed I grabbed a handful of Zuke's minis (I love those things!) and each time I walked by his crate and he didn't react I dropped a treat into the crate. I did that for about 10 minutes until he was back to not noticing any of us. He had his back turned to us and his Kong in the corner of his crate so he was still guarding, but it was about 100 levels lower tension than the Cujo-esque behavior.

 

I don't know what to do about this boy. He's 85% wonderful and 15% psychotic. I'll be sharing this with Maruska as well, but wanted to give you an update. I'm frustrated because I'm not accustomed to being unsure of what to do - I'm a very decisive person, but he's got me worried that I'm going to do the wrong thing at every turn! :( She's coming over for training tomorrow and will hopefully have advice / direction. I suppose for now he can't even have a Kong in the crate.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

We had another incident last night. With the weather getting colder Momo is coming in earlier so more contentious situations are presented with this change in schedule. He was in the crate happily working on a Kong. Gertie and I came into the room and Gertie was a little excited. Neither of us were having Anything to do with Momo, but he sure did interject himself into our gleeful play by hovering over his Kong, snarling, growling and baring teeth. Took us by surprise, even Gertie looked at him like, "what the?" It's at these points I'm completely unsure what to do. Stand my ground? Retreat (I think this would reinforce the behavior because it gives him what he wants)? Advance (I'm pretty sure this is a tactic that contributed to our current status)?

 

I stood my ground. It took about 3 minutes for him to stop the noise, but he was still acting possessively of his Kong. After he relaxed I grabbed a handful of Zuke's minis (I love those things!) and each time I walked by his crate and he didn't react I dropped a treat into the crate. I did that for about 10 minutes until he was back to not noticing any of us. He had his back turned to us and his Kong in the corner of his crate so he was still guarding, but it was about 100 levels lower tension than the Cujo-esque behavior.

 

I don't know what to do about this boy. He's 85% wonderful and 15% psychotic. I'll be sharing this with Maruska as well, but wanted to give you an update. I'm frustrated because I'm not accustomed to being unsure of what to do - I'm a very decisive person, but he's got me worried that I'm going to do the wrong thing at every turn! :( She's coming over for training tomorrow and will hopefully have advice / direction. I suppose for now he can't even have a Kong in the crate.

 

So sorry to hear about this possible "setback." I wouldn't be too concerned yet though as there may be chances Momo may have been mostly reacting to Gertie rather than you or perhaps the whole "stimulus package" of energy could have startled him and unsettled him. Of course, this is just speculation. I didn't see what happened, but I can imagine that the "excited energy" could have put him in a state of uneasiness and cause him to snarl, growl and bare teeth just to communicate his desire to maintain his possession and eat in peace.

 

Being in a crate could have also contributed to triggering a more intense form of "fight" response rather than a warning followed by "flight." Perhaps if he was out the crate, he would have just growled as a warning, picked up the Kong and moved away with it to a safer spot where he could lie down and relax. In a crate, this option isn't there and hence why he may have felt the need to emphasize his growl with a pearly white display.

 

Now, not implying a crate is not good, just pointing out that it may have triggered a more emphasized response due to not having the chance to move away. By all means, a crate is always a must with resource guarders for safety to people and other dogs, just caution is needed to not evoke the behavior when possible-- but we all can have "oops" moments. Management is often the most challenging part of behavior modification. It's much better though to have a response as such and the dog being crated, rather than the uncertainty of what he may have done if out of the crate. Better safe than sorry.

 

Now, if the snarl was directed towards Gertie, among dogs, a display as such may be acceptable as long as it just ends at that, dog A makes the point "this Kong is mine!" and dog B slithers away "you can keep that, I can care less about it." This is an acceptable scenario for conflict resolution in dogs who resource guard and share the household -- it's a ritualized aggression display, a form of communication where nobody gets hurt. Problems start when dog B doesn't heed the warning or refuses to respond to it or dog A takes things to a further level and attacks without even giving dog B the opportunity to retreat.

 

In any case, you did good in tossing Momo treats just in case that display was directed to you or both you and Gertie. It might be you may have inadvertently been included in the" stimulus package" since you were with Gertie. This way, by tossing treats his way you were able to emphasize to him that you do not mean to steal his goodies, but actually add to them.

 

Yes, discuss this with the trainer you are working with, she may want to include crate exercises to the food bowl ones you are doing if he appears tense when you approach the crate when he is in possession of a resource. Also, if he has showed ever aggressive displays at Gertie (or your other dog /cat) discuss those as well.

Best,

Adrienne

Edited November 30, 2018 by Adrienne Farricelli

[JMFS]

You guessed it - she wants me to demonstrate to her tomorrow so she can assess and then target that issue as well. I'll update again once I know more. It's like a mini saga! I thought posting our trek might help someone else down the road. Or, if nothing else, might make others grateful for their easier going pups. :)

 

Gertie just kind of looks confused and curious when these things happen. She tends to go investigate, which doesn't help. She's a little oblivious I think. He's growled at Abbi and she growled back (Dachshunds /sigh), and they seemed to come to a mutual understanding after that - they leave each other alone. It's a tight set up in the office so perhaps when my trainer looks at it tomorrow (and pardons the end-of-year train wreck!) she might see a better set up. Always helpful to have a second set of eyes. Unless they belong to my mother . . . we'd have to rearrange the entire house and all the dogs would end up outside permanently.

 

The crate is definitely necessary for the safety of everyone. He'll leave blankets alone so maybe it will be as simple as putting a lid on it, as it were. If he can't see us milling about he's less likely to get upset. It's how I used to get him to settle at night when he was a puppy. It sure is nice to be able to bounce ideas around and get feedback. Sometimes I remember things that I used to do and wonder why the heck I couldn't think of that before posting! :)

[JMFS]

Good session today. We skipped most of the steps for the next exercises because I had already trained him on those. She got to see some of his aggression when she tried to advance another step - a slow reach for the bowl yielded a lip curl and a nose bump. So, I'll practice the step before that and we'll try the next step again next week. The goal is to eventually get him to sit when he sees me approach his bowl without me having to reach or say anything. We were laughing when he'd get his treat for sitting and then he'd look at his bowl with his ears perked and head to the side as though to say, "where's the food?"

 

Initially she said she wanted to put Momo in the same situation as Wednesday night, but after talking about it decided it would be counterproductive. I was relieved for that because I didn't want to intentionally incite the behavior. After seeing the set up and finding out it was dark, the crate door was closed, and there was one other thing that escapes me at the moment, she assessed that all those things culminated to cause the outburst. She said the only thing different she would have done was to turn her back, but otherwise what I did would be the correct course of action. She suggested working with Mo separately with an empty Kong in the crate and using chicken as the reward. The idea is that I will come into the room with the same set up, approach the crate and if I see Mo tense up, toss the chicken to him. Eventually I'm guessing I can bring Gertie in and work that angle. Keeping Gertie and Abbi separate will be easy enough - I'll banish them to the couch with the husband (who Still doesn't understand all this training and what it's supposed to accomplish). :D I feel much better knowing that she concurred with my standing my ground and having only a minor adjustment to it - that means I've been doing the right thing lately, whew!

 

She was impressed with his "stay" and "wait" and asked if she could record it so we went out into the yard (all of his feeding desensitization training is done on the patio / lanai / screen room - you pick whatever you'd call it. In Texas it's a screen room but here in Florida they go all fancy with "lanai.") She had Mo stay with her and then had me call him and put him into a "stay." Then she had me move far away from him until she gave the signal and I whistled for him. She asked if he'd stay if I ran instead of walking and I looked at her like she spoke a different language. Even before my back issues, I didn't run. In fact, if I'm running, you might want to run, too, because whatever caused me to run is something bad or wildly marvelous! She did the running instead and yes, he did stay. I told her if she were a squirrel it would have been game over - that stay would have been broken for sure. For people, though, he'll stay. Oh, and then she just had to record him doing "play dead, all the way dead, Mo" That one's usually a crowd pleaser. :p

 

He's trained well, if I do say so myself, on the basics and some parlor tricks (shake, high five, turn around, back up, etc . . .); it's the resource guarding that I struggle with because so many things are the wrong move and so few are the right one. She's also going to send me some literature / blog info from a couple trainers that she thinks are good reads that will help. Crochet and dog training - that's about all I read about any more - I'm an action-packed gal!

 

I told her about Zuke's Minis and Amazon's subscribe & save - I staggered it to have two different flavors arriving each month (salmon & rabbit, then duck & chicken I think it was) to keep things interesting. I think I end up paying about $4 for a 6 oz bag after all is said and done And I don't have to drive 40 minutes round trip to a store that has them stocked.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Thanks for the update. It's always best to be conservative and it sounds like your trainer's advice to refrain from doing the crate exercises was sound advice. Many dogs are more reactive in the dark and if the setup doesn't seem ideal, best to wait until things are better under control in other settings.

By the way, here in Arizona, screen rooms are called "Arizona Rooms" just to add it to the collection;)

[JMFS]

Fritos. Fritos are currently the Most Exciting Food in the World to Momo. Thank goodness it's only a handful per training session because that sodium content is through the roof! We had to cancel Friday's session and will be rescheduling. I was perfectly fine with that because Mo isn't Quite yet, but Almost, sitting before I reach for the bowl. I now have a little window of extra opportunity to get his butt to hit that ground the moment I start towards that bowl. Sooooo close!

 

One thing I did notice today - he was Happy to see me near his bowl. I think it's the Fritos, honestly, I do. I was even able to pet his neck between attempts, but I shall refrain from trying that again because I don't think we're there, yet. He didn't do anything, but I could feel that Slight twinge of tension even though his body was relaxed. It's that hard-to-explain intuition thing.

 

Interesting side effect: Gertie hesitates to eat her food while I'm out with Momo, and instead watches from the window, though I feed her first (always her first, then Mo). I actually had to cajole her into eating this morning after I came back in. I don't think she's sick, but I'll be watching to rule that out. I'm getting the feeling that she knows Mo is getting special treats and she's holding out for hers, or perhaps it's because she wants me to babysit her while she eats (not happenin' - I have things to do!). I could be doing that whole attributing human traits to a dog thing (anthropomorphism), though. I'll continue to monitor. I did get her to eat eventually by putting a portion of her food in her Orbee-Tuff Snoop Dog Toy (omg, a non-Kong toy that works!) and bringing it into the room with us (she normally has a whole room to herself to throw her Wobbler about without hitting our ankles and feet, but this toy is soft so it's okay).

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Who doesn't love Fritos :D I wonder if eating them will give him a case of Frito feet. Turns out, though that snack food smell coming from dog feet is a matter of pesky yeast growing, yuck.:eek:

 

Sounds like things are progressing nicely. I concur with you, best not to add touch at this point. Not only to prevent risks, but also to protect as much as possible any progress you have made so far. Setbacks can be costly in our piggy bank of successes.

 

Perhaps Gertie is bonding more with you because of all the recent training you have been doing? It sounds like she wants to be with you. I know lots of dogs who want their owners to be near when they eat, some of them had separation anxiety though.

 

Or perhaps she knows you are out training Momo and she wants to be part of it too? Every time I was clicker training I had to keep dogs in separated areas because they were so eager to do it. It seemed like they would rather work for the food than eat it straight food straight from the bowl...Yes, always best to keep an eye with changes in behavior just in case something medical is going on. Several possibilities as to what may be going on.

Edited December 10, 2018 by Adrienne Farricelli

[JMFS]

Now she believes me. He's been on good behavior because the challenges have been easy, or at least were at a good pace to keep him under threshold. Today we took it up a notch and it was more than he was ready for. We're working up to me being able to take the bowl from him like it's no big deal, but I think we're still at least 3 more sessions from that. I could bee wrong, but after 8 years of this I think I have a good feel for his stubborness. :D

 

We were working on getting him to leave the bowl with a little kibble in it and come to me. She had me put him into a wait about 5 feet away from the bowl, then I would go pick up the bowl, fill it, set it down, walk back to him. At this point I give him his release (which is, "okay"), and call him back right away before he gets to the bowl and give him a treat. I think chicken is going to be required for this stage, at least initially. He came right back to me the first couple times so she said to let him get to the bowl the next time. Well, I said, "okay" and he started to the bowl but paused and I gave him a treat and told him "okay" and he paused again so I gave him a treat. Oops. Mixed signals! He got a little flustered because he wasn't sure what I was asking him to do. Sooo, we reset and This time when I gave him the final release I encouraged him to go to the bowl, sans treat, when he paused. That all went alright.

 

Next She filled the bowl and this is where it got tricky. Mo has intense eye contact and focus (unless there's a squirrel . . .). When he's focused on something - like the person who just put food in his bowl - he's going to maintain that focus. She Wanted him to look at me so I could give him the release and then bring him back, but he was so doggone focused on her and would Not look at me. He started drooling as we waited patiently for him to look to me for the signal. Mind you, he'd already had his meal by now And eating half a bag of Zuke's minis - he was far from starving. She increased her own distance to try to encourage him to focus on me instead. After what Felt like 2 minutes he started to waiver and his ears relaxed, his eyes started almost going to me, but snapped right back to her. Now I'm trying to remember if I did something to get his attention or if she told me to get his attention. Either way, I finally got him to look at me and he got his treat. After that he did it four more times, each being rewarded. I can't remember if she waited until I released him or if she walked over to us before the release, but I did give him the "okay" and then we were trying to get him to come back to me for a treat, but he was Not giving up that food he'd worked so hard for. He barked while he was eating, never lifting his head. She moved a little closer to try to get his attention and that was it. He barked, growled, then snarled at her. No big deal, she turned her back and let him be. She said up until that point she was starting to doubt he had any aggression. I keep telling folks, he's a happy fun-loving pup Until that food is His, then he gets serious.

 

It was good that he displayed the behavior in that it showed her what I've been working around. Naturally I don't want him that distressed, but for the point of training I felt it was an important ingredient. She said it was fine, we just pushed him too far too fast and she took us back to the previous step. Poor Mo got a good workout today, that's for sure. Later this evening I did a couple recalls before he reached his bowl and he did a good job; however, getting him off that bowl is going to be a tough one and that's where I think the chicken will be needed.

 

It's crazy how different it is feeding each dog. If I go by Gertie while she's eating she Wants me to stop by to give her attention, or she'll at least stop eating and sit, politely waiting to see what it is I want. Momo visibly tenses and hunkers down over the bowl and grabs a mouthful if you approach him. Abbi we have to coax, trick, bargain with, and pamper (I have been known to make smiley faces and other designs out of kibble for her and yes, it actually works, she's mental).

 

Despite the growling and snarling, I feel today's session was the best because she got an exact display of the behavior I want to address. She's also setting this up so I can use it to get him to drop something in the yard. So, there you have it, our latest and greatest. :) Momo the Mean showed out today and she now knows I'm not making it up.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Thanks as always for the update. While this setback is unfortunate, I agree with you that there's a bright side to it: it will provide an insight on what to work more on. If he's been rehearsing this behavior for 8 years, it's not unexpected for occurrences as such to occur during behavior modification for the simple fact that it is so difficult to unlearn something that has been for so long part of his behavior repertoire. Thankfully, he was nice enough to "use his words."