Maremma puppy - what's working and where I need help.

[ROGER SAUMURE]

We have had our little Lupo for just over 2 weeks now - actually he is not so little - it seems he has about doubled in size since we picked him up.

All in all he is just a fantastic dog - better than I could have ever hoped for.  We live in a rural area and my wife raises chickens.  It probably took more time for the chickens to adjust to Lupo that it took for him to adjust to the chickens.

Lupo stays outside all day - we bring him in the house at night (after everything is locked down outside) where he sleeps in a "crate".  Other than the occasional wimper this has worked out very well.  He does not have the run of the house - but sometimes before crate time we will let him in where he will curl up on the rug at the front door.  He will rarely try to leave that spot but a simple pointing of the finger and he is right back curled up on the rug.

Every morning just after dawn, Lupo and I go "on patrol" where we walk the property to try to establish his boundaries.  He is really good about not trying to wander beyond where he is allowed to go.  I do the same in the evenings.  While he loves to tug at my pantlegs on these walks, I usually have a stick with me that I can use to redirect him and that seems to work well.  Sometimes he will just carry the stick for the rest of the walk as if that is his job.  Other times, I will start off letting him drag his leash and by the end of the walk he will carry that - just another "job".  He constantly throws glances my way to be sure he has me in sight.

We never walk him down the driveway as we do not want him to think its ok to do that himself.  If I want to take him to visit a neighbor or the neighbor's dogs I always put him in the truck and park down the road.

He is anxious about going for a ride and needs to be next to me - but I think he will get used to it with time.

I find Lupo is not food motivated at all!  And this has been a bit of a challenge - at least for me.  "Sit" is no problem.  "Down" is ok.  "Come" on the other hand is a bit of an issue.  He clearly understands the command, but sometimes refuses to execute.  Sometimes I feel like he wants me to get far enough away so that he can really run to me and other times I feel like he is thinking "I don't want to come".  Any pointers here would be most helpful.

If we go to an unfamiliar area he is really good about staying with me - either on or off the leash.  At home it seems he is more comfortable doing what he wants to do and pulling against the leash as a form of play.

Like I said the experience has so far been fantastic, but I feel like I am in some sort of honeymoon phase and the in a couple of months time he will go from adorable Lupo to Kujo.  My last dog was just over 15 years old when he passed so it has been a while for me working with a puppy.  I want to be sure we are all off to a good start and no unknowingly reinforce any bad behaviors.  Is he really going to start testing me as he gets older?

Thanks!

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Hi there!

Welcome to the forums! What an adorable pup Lupo is! Please see my observations in non-bold under your text. 

We have had our little Lupo for just over 2 weeks now - actually he is not so little - it seems he has about doubled in size since we picked him up. 

All in all he is just a fantastic dog - better than I could have ever hoped for.  We live in a rural area and my wife raises chickens.  It probably took more time for the chickens to adjust to Lupo that it took for him to adjust to the chickens.

Make lots of pictures, they tend to grow so fast! Maremmas, like other livestock guardians, aren't the easiest breed to raise, but I am so glad to hear that you have a farm. Lupo will love having a job, just be careful because they may not be very reliable around livestock until they mature at around 2 years of age. In Abruzzo (I am from Italy) these dogs were mostly used on sheep and raised with them from a young age. 

Lupo stays outside all day - we bring him in the house at night (after everything is locked down outside) where he sleeps in a "crate".  Other than the occasional wimper this has worked out very well.  He does not have the run of the house - but sometimes before crate time we will let him in where he will curl up on the rug at the front door.  He will rarely try to leave that spot but a simple pointing of the finger and he is right back curled up on the rug. Every morning just after dawn, Lupo and I go "on patrol" where we walk the property to try to establish his boundaries. 

Sounds like good training to get him started on performing his future livestock duties! Did you get him from a breeder who has raised him around animals already? Is he from working lines? How old is he right now?

He is really good about not trying to wander beyond where he is allowed to go.  I do the same in the evenings.  While he loves to tug at my pantlegs on these walks, I usually have a stick with me that I can use to redirect him and that seems to work well.  Sometimes he will just carry the stick for the rest of the walk as if that is his job.  Other times, I will start off letting him drag his leash and by the end of the walk he will carry that - just another "job".  He constantly throws glances my way to be sure he has me in sight.

If he is under 16 weeks, they tend to not wander away much, but things may start to change once he's over 16 weeks and enters the "flight stage". In a livestock guardian, you' start seeing more independent behaviors as they mature. 

 https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/flight-instinct-period-4-8-months/

We never walk him down the driveway as we do not want him to think its ok to do that himself.  If I want to take him to visit a neighbor or the neighbor's dogs I always put him in the truck and park down the road. He is anxious about going for a ride and needs to be next to me - but I think he will get used to it with time.

Yes, most pups adjust to going on car rides, make sure to start with brief trips and make them fun and rewarding. You want to make sure to socialize him as these dogs tend to get more and more aloof as they mature, and you want him to habituate to how humans normally behave. 

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/socializing-your-puppy/

I find Lupo is not food motivated at all!  And this has been a bit of a challenge - at least for me.  "Sit" is no problem.  "Down" is ok.  "Come" on the other hand is a bit of an issue.  He clearly understands the command, but sometimes refuses to execute.  Sometimes I feel like he wants me to get far enough away so that he can really run to me and other times I feel like he is thinking "I don't want to come".  Any pointers here would be most helpful.

If we go to an unfamiliar area he is really good about staying with me - either on or off the leash.  At home it seems he is more comfortable doing what he wants to do and pulling against the leash as a form of play. 

What does Lupo eat for his meals? Is he free-fed? Like is his food left available all day? We have found that this practice devalues food. What foods have you tried so far for training? These dogs are particular in that they are rather frugal and have a slow metabolism so they are rather conservative when it comes to amounts of food. 

What you describe seems like rather normal livestock guardian behavior. They are bred to work on their own, and as independent thinkers, they tend to think along of the terms of "let me think about it, and I'll let you know if I feel like doing that." In other words, they think they may have more important things to do. This is why we may need to use reinforcers strategically.

High-value food can help keep them motivated, but sometimes we may need to get creative. I have used the ability to go explore the outdoors as a reinforcer for sits at the door. 

Like I said the experience has so far been fantastic, but I feel like I am in some sort of honeymoon phase and the in a couple of months time he will go from adorable Lupo to Kujo.  My last dog was just over 15 years old when he passed so it has been a while for me working with a puppy.  I want to be sure we are all off to a good start and no unknowingly reinforce any bad behaviors.  Is he really going to start testing me as he gets older? Thanks!

What breed was your last dog? Was it as well a livestock guardian? 15 is a wonderful age! 

To answer your question, things will get more challenging as he matures, gets larger and reaches the bratty, juvenile/adolescent phase. Here's a little insight into what to expect:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/survive-dogs-adolescent-stage/

This is general of dogs, but with livestock guardians, we may need to put an emphasis on certain things. For instance, I would recommend:

-Socialization, ensuring it's always positive and never overwhelming. 

-We may want to take steps to prevent resource guarding (never forcibly remove items, but trade them!)

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/the-importance-of-preventing-resource-guarding-in-puppies/

-Handling exercises:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/exercises-to-teach-puppies-to-tolerate-touch/

-Exercises to prevent separation anxiety:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/exercises-to-prevent-separation-anxiety-in-puppies/

-Avoid repetitive training, take lots of breaks, keep it fun! These dogs may get bored easily and quickly find other more salient things to attend to (like a sudden noise). We can't blame them though, being attentive to their surroundings is what they were bred for. 

-Praise for calm behaviors, these dogs are very sensitive, use positive reinforcement training

-Use management to prevent rehearsing problematic behaviors -like have a tall fence (5-6 feet) to prevent escaping when older, provide a designated area to dig (they love to dig craters when hot), keep him in a separate room when children are over (they may misinterpret their play fighting) etc.

-Create a trusting relationship so that when you are off property, he looks at you for guidance

-Provide enrichment (brain games!) to keep that mind busy

Will provide more in-depth info based on your responses in regards to his age and treats and his overall history.

Talk soon!

Adrienne 

 

 

[ROGER SAUMURE]

Gee with a name like Adrienne Farricelli I would have never guessed you were from Italy.  LOL!  We called France home for many years and we made our way to Italy a few times.  I had a dear friend with a place in Montelupo with a bunch of olive trees.  After tasting olive oil pressed right in the town square, my wife always made sure I came back home with the good stuff on every trip.

Lupo is 12 weeks old today.  We got him from a breeder who used Maremmas to guard livestock.  They clearly were not pets.  They had 1 in with the cows, 1 in with the pigs, and 2 in with the goats which tended to be more soft targets for predators, plus Lupo's mom.  Lupo was born in the barn and it seems she already started preparing him for his duties ahead as a farm dog.

He has been really good with small children - playful but not rough.  Good bite inhibition for a puppy - not a scratch on my arms.  I took him to a 4th of July party where he got to play with other dogs and be around a lot of new faces.  Just made sure we left before any potentially traumatizing fireworks started.  He was just so good - my wife was so proud of him.  He sat on my wife's lap for the ride home and was fine - he just wants to be on someones lap in the car - which tends to be an issue if there is only the driver in the car.  I may try blocking off the back seat/cargo area and taking him for rides that way.

I had him to the vet last week for his second round of shots - again he was great - and a real chick magnet.

At the breeder he was free fed.  We try not to do that as we will have chickens eating dog food - thankfully he leaves the chicken food alone.  We feed him a large breed puppy kibble.  Sometimes my wife will boil a little chicken or beef trimmings that we use very moderately mixed with the kibble or as "high value" treats which he clearly prefers to standard dog treats.  He does really like Greenies or Dentalife chews.

There is no question the dog is really smart and understands commands but he does have a mind of his own.  If I tell him to "come" there will be times where we stare at each other until he comes.  Other times he will just sit until I walk far enough away so that he can run to me.  However if he likes doing something - no issue.  We have a couple of large rocks that if I point and say "up" he will scramble right up and sit on top of the rock.  I would say that praise goes a long way with this dog.

I think we have the digging problem sorted - he has found a way beneath a low deck that provides him with shade and cool dirt to escape the heat.

My last dog was a Norwich terrier - fantastic and smart.  Totally food motivated.  He was actually my mom's dog (who lived in a town) and I was the "fun uncle" who let him off the leash.  When my mom passed he came to live with us in the country and he loved every minute of it.  Left the chickens alone and chased everything off the property from chipmunks to deer and even a few bears.  And tried to eat a lot of chicken food.

Thanks for the tips - definitely need to read and re-read some of the material you sent.  Just a lot to remember.

 

 

 

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Gee with a name like Adrienne Farricelli I would have never guessed you were from Italy.  LOL!  We called France home for many years and we made our way to Italy a few times.  I had a dear friend with a place in Montelupo with a bunch of olive trees.  After tasting olive oil pressed right in the town square, my wife always made sure I came back home with the good stuff on every trip.

LOL! Yeah, I often joke about it saying that my last name (not my maiden name) sounds like a type of pasta!

Gotta love those olives, we have been able to grow some Arbequina olive trees in Arizona, which oddly is one of the few places in the US where you can grow olive trees. I like to cure them in the fall, just make a couple of jars but they taste awesome although they're very small. Nothing though beats the olive oil from Tuscany!

Lupo is 12 weeks old today.  We got him from a breeder who used Maremmas to guard livestock.  They clearly were not pets.  They had 1 in with the cows, 1 in with the pigs, and 2 in with the goats which tended to be more soft targets for predators, plus Lupo's mom.  Lupo was born in the barn and it seems she already started preparing him for his duties ahead as a farm dog.

So he's really young and the socialization window is still open, so yes, now is the time to make positive experiences happen with the world around him  (always ensuring it's always positive and never overwhelming).

He has been really good with small children - playful but not rough.  Good bite inhibition for a puppy - not a scratch on my arms.  I took him to a 4th of July party where he got to play with other dogs and be around a lot of new faces.  Just made sure we left before any potentially traumatizing fireworks started.  He was just so good - my wife was so proud of him.  He sat on my wife's lap for the ride home and was fine - he just wants to be on someones lap in the car - which tends to be an issue if there is only the driver in the car.  I may try blocking off the back seat/cargo area and taking him for rides that way.

I had him to the vet last week for his second round of shots - again he was great - and a real chick magnet.

This is all awesome,  good bite inhibition is a must and he sounds very sweet and mellow! It's a great feeling when our pups make us proud! It was very nice of you to have spared him from the overwhelming firework displays!

At the breeder he was free fed.  We try not to do that as we will have chickens eating dog food - thankfully he leaves the chicken food alone.  We feed him a large breed puppy kibble.  Sometimes my wife will boil a little chicken or beef trimmings that we use very moderately mixed with the kibble or as "high value" treats which he clearly prefers to standard dog treats.  He does really like Greenies or Dentalife chews.

Yes, that can really put a dent in their motivation to eat and eat treats. It can really de-value them.  It's sort of like being exposed to a day-long buffet one day after another. The other day was speaking to a wedding photographer who eats at restaurants all the time as it's paid for when he has to shoot, and he invited us to a restaurant and he found all the food boring. I mean restaurant food with all the tasty menu most common mortals are willing to pay money for. After looking at the menu over and over he settled with some street food this restaurant also offered. 

Glad though he likes some of these chews that you can use for training, they are very hard though to split in pieces so you will have to make the most out of these, until you find other foods he likes that you can easily split into pieces so to reduce calorie count.   

There is no question the dog is really smart and understands commands but he does have a mind of his own.  If I tell him to "come" there will be times where we stare at each other until he comes.  Other times he will just sit until I walk far enough away so that he can run to me.  However if he likes doing something - no issue.  We have a couple of large rocks that if I point and say "up" he will scramble right up and sit on top of the rock.  I would say that praise goes a long way with this dog.

Have you been presenting food when you have called him to come? If so, he may be staring at you in hopes of seeing the food. We want to start fading the food though earlier than later to prevent an over dependence on seeing the food. We can do so gradually in the most challenging cases. Sometimes, backing up a few steps gets them to be curious and move towards us, and we can then reinforce their approach with something tasty we have been hiding in our pocket or behind out back. 

It's OK to use praise too if he loves that!

I think we have the digging problem sorted - he has found a way beneath a low deck that provides him with shade and cool dirt to escape the heat.

 They do tend to get very hot with all the coat! They should never be shaved though. Sounds like you have both found a lovely comprise by letting him use that area. 

My last dog was a Norwich terrier - fantastic and smart.  Totally food motivated.  He was actually my mom's dog (who lived in a town) and I was the "fun uncle" who let him off the leash.  When my mom passed he came to live with us in the country and he loved every minute of it.  Left the chickens alone and chased everything off the property from chipmunks to deer and even a few bears.  And tried to eat a lot of chicken food.

Thanks for the tips - definitely need to read and re-read some of the material you sent.  Just a lot to remember.

You are very welcome! Keep us posted on how things go, and post here any time for tips or troubleshooting!

Happy training!

[ROGER SAUMURE]

Thanks for the advice.

Lupo is growing like a weed and  his appetite is growing along with him.  We have been feeding him twice a day so instead of having the ability to graze, he is developing an appreciation for food. Some of the bolder chickens will dare to steal a piece of his kibble while he is eating and he does not seem to have a problem with that.

Will work on keeping treats out of sight.

He has "stay" down pretty good.  My question is when I am 50ft away and I release him, he will come to me.  Should I give him the treat when he comes back to me or should I be walking back to him to release him and give him the treat.

 

Regards

[Adrienne Farricelli]

These livestock guardian pups grow so fast! My ex-boss from back when I worked for an animal hospital recently got a Pry and just a few weeks ago he was on her lap and now he barely fits in the reclining chair! 

Lupo is adorable and glad he is developing a deeper appreciation of food!

You asked: "He has "stay" down pretty good.  My question is when I am 50ft away and I release him, he will come to me.  Should I give him the treat when he comes back to me or should I be walking back to him to release him and give him the treat."

That's a great question you have there! Now, this depends on what you want to are trying to accomplish. If you are just practicing a stay, then yes, walk towards him, reward him with a treat for maintaining position, and after giving him the treat, release him by saying “done!" or whatever release cue you are using.

If you are doing sequence cues, that is,  asking several cues in a row, (in this case a stay and come), your come cue supersedes the release so you can give a treat to him when he reaches you.

We can get lovely recalls with stays incorporated because the dog gets a double whammy of rewards: 1) being freed from the stay position and 2) the treats for reaching us. 

 

[ROGER SAUMURE]

So things with Lupo are going really well.  We regressed a little bit with on leash training since I really don't need one - Lupo just hangs out with us.  But I have started leash work again just so he is well behaved on the rare occasions we leave the property.

His adult teeth are coming in and while he is mouthy, he does not bite or rarely even nips.

A couple of issues that I need a little help on:

Sometimes he gets a little too big for his britches - sometimes I will give him a command - that he full well knows how to do - and he will stubbornly bark as if to say "no way am I going to do that right now".  When he is like this he will not let me grab his collar and jumps back when I try.  This will usually occur if I am near a vehicle as he absolutely wants no part of getting into a vehicle.  He is smart and I think this may be a trust issue.  I have been working with him - getting him to put his paws up onto the back of my wifes jeep and treating him when he does.  I also have been successful at placing him in the Jeep with the tailgate open and treating him for sitting in the back of the Jeep.  I would really like to reduce his anxiety over getting into a vehicle.  Yes I can pick him up and go for a short ride - but he does not like that - and it only seems to increase his level of anxiety.

When people come to see my wife, Lupo will insert himself between my wife and her guest, and bark to get attention - it is quite annoying and we really have to correct this behavior.

 

Thanks for your help!

 

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Hi there!

I am glad to hear things with Lupo are progressing really well. Please see my questions/comments under your bolded statements. 

So things with Lupo are going really well.  We regressed a little bit with on leash training since I really don't need one - Lupo just hangs out with us.  But I have started leash work again just so he is well behaved on the rare occasions we leave the property.

Yes, I would keep it up with the leash training because you never know when you'll need to take him on leash somewhere. Even for a vet visit, you want to have him under control when entering the building.  Make sure to make putting on the leash fun and following you around in places rewarding. 

His adult teeth are coming in and while he is mouthy, he does not bite or rarely even nips.

That is very good news! I hope when he has nipped in the past he has shown signs of good bite inhibition. Has he? Make sure he has durable and safe chew toys to chew on. How old is he now? I estimate around 5 months? They get a second "chewing stage" which takes place between 4 and 9 months. 

A couple of issues that I need a little help on: Sometimes he gets a little too big for his britches - sometimes I will give him a command - that he full well knows how to do - and he will stubbornly bark as if to say "no way am I going to do that right now".  When he is like this he will not let me grab his collar and jumps back when I try.  

This sounds like typical livestock guardian behavior (the not wanting to perform a behavior).  Livestock guardians are not the easiest dogs to train as do not easily take directions. This should be confused with them being stubborn. It's just that these dogs were selectively bred to work independently without human interference and gazing at your eyes adoringly or sitting and laying down at the blink of an eye may not be of their interest, unless you make it worthy of their time.  

And getting frustrated makes only things worse: if they sense that you are too emotional they may not easily take directions from you because they feel the need to take over and make their own decisions. However, just because they're not the easiest dogs to train doesn't mean they can't be trained. This is a big myth. They can be trained, but with these dogs we'll have to consider their histories and who they are, so to lower our expectations a little bit.

We just can't expect that level of responsiveness that we may see in other types of dogs. We therefore need to take extra steps in making training more interesting and worthy of their attention. They may enjoy clicker training: https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/clicker-training/

It's also important paying attention to in what circumstances the dog doesn't follow our directions so to identify patterns. A great Pyrenees I trained didn't do well being trained nearby windows or doors as she was hearing noises often and wanted to check them out.  I often used the Premack Principle considering that for her one of the highest rewards was going outside to check things out, so if she didn't listen to something, at least I made the best out of it, by asking her to sit in front of the door before opening it. Since she cared so much about being out, in 90 percent of the cases, she readily complied.

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/premack-principle/

You may also want to work on making collar grabs more pleasant so that he doesn't feel like instinctively moving away. See section 2  Rewarding Collar Grabs by scrolling down this article: 

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/exercises-to-teach-puppies-to-tolerate-touch/

At around 5 months, you'll also start seeing further more independent behaviors as he's in the flight stage and nearing adolescence, so keep up the training, but always ensuring to not make sessions too long or boring. 

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/flight-instinct-period-4-8-months/

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/survive-dogs-adolescent-stage/

This will usually occur if I am near a vehicle as he absolutely wants no part of getting into a vehicle.  He is smart and I think this may be a trust issue.  I have been working with him - getting him to put his paws up onto the back of my wifes jeep and treating him when he does.  I also have been successful at placing him in the Jeep with the tailgate open and treating him for sitting in the back of the Jeep.  I would really like to reduce his anxiety over getting into a vehicle.  Yes I can pick him up and go for a short ride - but he does not like that - and it only seems to increase his level of anxiety.

OK, so that's a circumstance I talked about prior that we need to pay attention to. Being extra smart, Lupo is likely worried that he'll have to get into the car and may be rebelling to that because he's not comfortable in there. 

Does he ever start drooling or get nauseous/ or has he ever vomited in the car? Many cases of car phobia may be triggered by underlying motion sickness, and not always it's easy to identify. 

Is he taken on car rides that mostly lead to the vet? Or does he get to go to some "fun" places too? 

Is he taken out on car rides sparingly? Many pups quickly dishabituate to car rides if they're not taken often. I know of some vets who have suggested pups not to be taken outside due to risks for infectious diseases and these pups become quickly de-socialized and afraid of anything new and won't go on car rides due to fear.

Is he just tentative of climbing in the car, but then does fine once in? Or does he appear anxious for the whole duration of the ride? Some dogs just struggle with the getting in the car part. 

When people come to see my wife, Lupo will insert himself between my wife and her guest, and bark to get attention - it is quite annoying and we really have to correct this behavior.

I am concerned this may be actual protective behavior more than attention seeking. 

Is he doing this only with guests entering the home?

Does it happens also outside of the home?

Does he seem to really like human attention? 

How often do you have guests come over?

Has he always been this way or is this a new behavior?

Does it only happen when around your wife? 

If it's only you having the guests over (your wife is away in another room or out of the home) does he still engage in this form of barking?

Is he putting himself in between your wife and the person approaching, with the barking increasing the more they advance towards your wife (don't actually try this, just let me know about this by recalling past events) 

Is he always by your wives' side when people come over?

What has happened once the guests enter the home? Does he keep on barking? Chills down eventually? Or does he chill and then star barking again as guests move around, get up etc?

Sorry for all these questions, but it's not always easy differentiating certain types of barks from others. 

[ROGER SAUMURE]

Thank you so much.  Lupo is just about 5 months old.

That is very good news! I hope when he has nipped in the past he has shown signs of good bite inhibition. Has he? Make sure he has durable and safe chew toys to chew on. How old is he now? I estimate around 5 months? They get a second "chewing stage" which takes place between 4 and 9 months. 

His bite inhibition is better than any puppy I have ever come across.  In the time we have had him I don't even have a scratch to show for it.  When he does get mouthy we simply say "no teeth" which he seems to understand really well.  Most of his mouthing is limited to my shirt sleeves.  So far chewing has not been an issue - I was expecting a puppy to chew up everything and this has not been the case.

However, just because they're not the easiest dogs to train doesn't mean they can't be trained. This is a big myth.

 It has been so many years since I had to train a puppy I was actually quite worried about training a Maremma.  Not that I have a lot of experience with different breeds but I find Lupo incredibly smart and easy to train.  Maybe my expectations are too low or I just got lucky.

It's also important paying attention to in what circumstances the dog doesn't follow our directions so to identify patterns. A great Pyrenees I trained didn't do well being trained nearby windows or doors as she was hearing noises often and wanted to check them out.  I often used the Premack Principle considering that for her one of the highest rewards was going outside to check things out, so if she didn't listen to something, at least I made the best out of it, by asking her to sit in front of the door before opening it. Since she cared so much about being out, in 90 percent of the cases, she readily complied.

You may also want to work on making collar grabs more pleasant so that he doesn't feel like instinctively moving away.

Lupo does exhibit typical livestock guardian behavior when we walk the property.  When we go out for a walk in the morning he likes to get a sense of what might be around - just studying the tree line and smelling the air.  Once he has done that he is fine.  I am not really concerned with this as I want him to be a dog and that is one of the reasons we decided on getting a LGD in the first place.  I can point to one of several large rocks and tell him "up" and he will run to the top of the rock.  If I tell him to "sit" he will sit on the rock.  If I tell him to "stay" he will stay until called.  When called he will come running to me.  I always be sure to grab his collar.  He will chase deer and the occasional fox off the property but does not pursue them.  Actually foxes have become much less of an issue with Lupo around - they were trying to get our chickens every other day but no fox activity for a couple of months now.

At around 5 months, you'll also start seeing further more independent behaviors as he's in the flight stage and nearing adolescence, so keep up the training, but always ensuring to not make sessions too long or boring. 

Lupo does get the zoomies - especially in the early evenings and they are hilarious.  I do spend a couple of minutes a day brushing him - not so much of a grooming exercise but just to keep him used to being brushed.  He keeps his nails worn down pretty good but he does have the double dew claw on his hind legs so I do trim his dew claws ever so slightly once a week or so - just so he is used to it.  The flight stage has always been my biggest concern and we have worked on boundary training twice a day since day one.  He is never allowed to walk down the driveway - he will not even follow me when I take down the trash - and he never goes more that a few feet into the treeline.

OK, so that's a circumstance I talked about prior that we need to pay attention to. Being extra smart, Lupo is likely worried that he'll have to get into the car and may be rebelling to that because he's not comfortable in there. 

That is clearly the case.  When we would walk past the truck together Lupo would take a wide berth around the truck.  He is getting better since I started opening the door/tailgate and making him put his paws on the sill to get a treat.  Our plan is for my wife and I to take him on some short rides together.  The one time he did fine in the car was when we were both in the vehicle together.

Does he ever start drooling or get nauseous/ or has he ever vomited in the car? Many cases of car phobia may be triggered by underlying motion sickness, and not always it's easy to identify.

No.

I am concerned this may be actual protective behavior more than attention seeking. 

Is he doing this only with guests entering the home?

Does it happens also outside of the home?

Just about all our interaction with people occurs outside the house.  Lupo is primarily an outdoor dog who only comes into the house to sleep.

Does he seem to really like human attention? 

Yes - especially children.  When my wife is trying to have a conversation, he is nuzzling her guest.  This behavior is more pronounced with women.

How often do you have guests come over?

A few times (4-5) a week people (women) will come over to buy eggs and stuff my wife sells.  We also have fairly frequent deliveries to the house and I am not aware of any issues with delivery people.  My wife says this behavior occurs less with men.

Has he always been this way or is this a new behavior?

Hard to say but I think it has always been there to some degree.

Does it only happen when around your wife? 

No but its not like I have many friends stopping by.  One of my friends (male) will stop by with two small children and the kids will play with Lupo and he is well behaved and my friend an I can have a normal conversation.  One of my wife's customers brings her children to see the chickens and Lupo and Lupo is well behaved - getting attention from the children.  Another friend (male) stopped by and Lupo started barking as we were talking.  Its almost as if he was taking the appearance of a new face as a cue for playtime.

If it's only you having the guests over (your wife is away in another room or out of the home) does he still engage in this form of barking?

Not sure.

Is he putting himself in between your wife and the person approaching, with the barking increasing the more they advance towards your wife (don't actually try this, just let me know about this by recalling past events) 

No, his behavior seems more attention seeking and playful.

When we picked Lupo up at the breeder, the breeder had several Maremmas in pens with different types of livestock.  One of the dogs was quite standoffish and would bark without approaching the fence - clearly guardian type behavior.  We were informed that the only person who could even touch that dog was the breeder (a woman). Two of the other dogs in another pen would bark but when we approached the fence were quite friendly.

It just so happens that I spotted a Maremma on a farm not to far from ours.  The owners were outside so I stopped to speak with them.  This dog, who was in a pen with chickens, would bark and did not approach the fence - clearly trying to warn me off.

I would say Lupo's behavior is more playful/attention seeking and not aggressive/protective.

Is he always by your wives' side when people come over?

I would have to say yes.  My wife spends a lot of time outside and Lupo is at her side sticking his nose into what ever she is doing.  He absolutely adores her, but she is busy and excitable and her attempts to correct him may be viewed more as play?

What has happened once the guests enter the home? Does he keep on barking? Chills down eventually? Or does he chill and then star barking again as guests move around, get up etc?

Lupo does not come into the house until late at night so we have no experience here.

 

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Thanks for the extra details, they are very helpful!

Thank you so much.  Lupo is just about 5 months old.

His bite inhibition is better than any puppy I have ever come across.  In the time we have had him I don't even have a scratch to show for it.  When he does get mouthy we simply say "no teeth" which he seems to understand really well.  Most of his mouthing is limited to my shirt sleeves.  So far chewing has not been an issue - I was expecting a puppy to chew up everything and this has not been the case.

This is great! Many pups tend to chew a whole especially the first year. He sounds very gentle and mellow.  

 It has been so many years since I had to train a puppy I was actually quite worried about training a Maremma.  Not that I have a lot of experience with different breeds but I find Lupo incredibly smart and easy to train.  Maybe my expectations are too low or I just got lucky.

Lupo does exhibit typical livestock guardian behavior when we walk the property.  When we go out for a walk in the morning he likes to get a sense of what might be around - just studying the tree line and smelling the air.  Once he has done that he is fine.  I am not really concerned with this as I want him to be a dog and that is one of the reasons we decided on getting a LGD in the first place.  I can point to one of several large rocks and tell him "up" and he will run to the top of the rock.  If I tell him to "sit" he will sit on the rock.  If I tell him to "stay" he will stay until called.  When called he will come running to me.  I always be sure to grab his collar.  He will chase deer and the occasional fox off the property but does not pursue them.  Actually foxes have become much less of an issue with Lupo around - they were trying to get our chickens every other day but no fox activity for a couple of months now.

I am glad that training Lupo has been easy to train so far! Things may change as he becomes an adolescent up through social maturity (around 3 years). Chances are, you may sail smoothly through it, but it's always good to be prepared. Making collar grabs pleasant can help prevent moving away and playing hard to catch. 

I am glad that Lupo's presence has helped discourage foxes from approaching your chicken!

Lupo does get the zoomies - especially in the early evenings and they are hilarious.  I do spend a couple of minutes a day brushing him - not so much of a grooming exercise but just to keep him used to being brushed.  He keeps his nails worn down pretty good but he does have the double dew claw on his hind legs so I do trim his dew claws ever so slightly once a week or so - just so he is used to it.  The flight stage has always been my biggest concern and we have worked on boundary training twice a day since day one.  He is never allowed to walk down the driveway - he will not even follow me when I take down the trash - and he never goes more that a few feet into the treeline.

Great! Brushing and creating positive associations with nail trims is paramount. Keep up the great work!

That is clearly the case.  When we would walk past the truck together Lupo would take a wide berth around the truck.  He is getting better since I started opening the door/tailgate and making him put his paws on the sill to get a treat.  Our plan is for my wife and I to take him on some short rides together.  The one time he did fine in the car was when we were both in the vehicle together.

I am glad he doesn't show signs of being motion sick.

In these cases, we need to take baby steps and possibly never force them to get into the truck by pulling or carrying them in it if we can. Of course, in the case of an emergency, we may need to do whatever it takes, but in that case, it may help taking them on a different car so that we don't lose all the positive progress made by practicing with the truck. 

It sounds like you have been doing a great job in letting him put his paws up to get the treat. We want to make it all fun and a game. If the issue is jumping up, here is a guide that has helped a dog I was boarding who struggled with the jumping up part:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/fear-getting-car/

Other tips/ideas that come to mind:

-If your dog is a bit clumsy or finds it challenging to jump into your truck, move your front seats forward so that your dog can aim on jumping in the footwell area rather than the seats. 

-Play fun car games based on desensitization (taking baby steps so that the dog doesn't feel overwhelmed) and counterconditioning (creating positive associations). 

For example, you can open both back doors and invite your puppy to follow you in one door and out of the other. Praise and reward lavishly for going in and out! If your pup is very attached to your wife, following her always around, you can have her do this exercise at first and then take turns. Make sure to make it fun game!

You can hide some treats nearby and then inside the car for him to find. Treasure hunt style!  https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/elementary/the-treasure-hunt/

You can start with the treats around the car, like behind each wheel, and then include some treats placed indoors that he can reach while staying outside from the opened door, and then place some treats deeper inside so that he is forced to jump in. 

You can keep the car door open, have him sit and toss a treat in the car for him to go fetch and then wait for him to come back to you and rinse and repeat. Always keep the car doors open so that he doesn't feel trapped inside. 

You can then practice getting in the car, sitting in the back and clicking and treating for him targeting your hand and then progress to having him nose target the seats etc . https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/preschool/targeting/

You can also start feeding all meals and playing with toys in the car, adding one element at a time. This means, starting by feeding the dog next to the car, then inside the car as it is parked, then inside with the engine on, then driving out of parking spot and back in, then short drive around the block, then gradually longer drives. Make being in the car super fun, praise and then make all the fun end once out of the car. 

To help consolidate positive associations, you can even schedule some fun drive-through trips where dogs get high-value rewards (doggy ice-cream, I think Sonic still makes a Pup Cup and Starbucks makes the "Puppiccino," special treats specially crafted for dogs) before heading back home.

Just about all our interaction with people occurs outside the house.  Lupo is primarily an outdoor dog who only comes into the house to sleep. 

Yes - especially children.  When my wife is trying to have a conversation, he is nuzzling her guest.  This behavior is more pronounced with women. 

A few times (4-5) a week people (women) will come over to buy eggs and stuff my wife sells.  We also have fairly frequent deliveries to the house and I am not aware of any issues with delivery people.  My wife says this behavior occurs less with men. Hard to say but I think it has always been there to some degree.

No but its not like I have many friends stopping by.  One of my friends (male) will stop by with two small children and the kids will play with Lupo and he is well behaved and my friend an I can have a normal conversation.  One of my wife's customers brings her children to see the chickens and Lupo and Lupo is well behaved - getting attention from the children.  Another friend (male) stopped by and Lupo started barking as we were talking.  Its almost as if he was taking the appearance of a new face as a cue for playtime. No, his behavior seems more attention seeking and playful.

OK, I was thinking this may be an early onset of protective behavior (which is not unusual at all in livestock guardians), which can sometimes start early or Lupo feeling somewhat intimidated by these people. In particular, the standing in front of your wife barking is something we can see with protective dogs, and sometimes, this behavior starts on the playful/experimental side, and then gets more serious as the pup matures if not tackled. 

Another concern I had is that he is placing himself nearby your wife barking because he is intimidated by the people and gains more confidence/feels safer being nearby your wife. Some dogs who may be fearful may sometimes engage in "fool around" behaviors, which is a type of displacement behavior when under some stress like behaving in a silly playful way at the vet's office. When dogs behave this way, their stress is often not identified as it’s not straightforward as a dog who is shaking or growling. 

In any case, we can take some steps to prevent this form of barking from putting roots, although as he develops, it's possible to see an increase in barking at people approaching his perceived territory, as they're figuring out things such as what is normal versus what is a real threat needing some level of guidance. 

Ideas that come to mind, and that other trainers specializing in livestock guardians suggest: 

-Training an alternate behavior, like dropping some treats to the ground for him to pick up so to give an alternate behavior to engage in while keeping his mouth busy. Or telling him to go lie down on a mat where you'll give him a stuffed Kong or something to chew on that you'll keep handy nearby. Many dogs bark in the initial first couple of minutes guests are over due to over excitement/novelty and then chill down afterward. 

-Letting your pup know it's all OK and then having your wife take a more active role and going to greet the people directly without her staying behind Lupo. Many owners of livestock guardians use a cue to let them know that their "job is done" and that with people visiting it's all good. Putting a leash on him (wearing a halti may give more control if needed) can help remind him that he should stay put as we will be handling the situation from now on. Even if it's not yet fully protective behavior, this is good to train as a foundation. 

-Practice having people over and keeping Lupo on leash and praising and feeding Lupo treats when he acts calm. You can ask him to sit or lie down before giving the treats if he's calm enough to perform those behaviors. You may need to work more on sits and downs first without people present and gradually build up to fluent level before practicing around familiar people and then strangers. Lying down is a plus because dogs are less likely to bark when lying down. 

 If he still manages to bark, despite several trials, put him away in a pen with something to chew and try again later or on another day, with a mental note to take further steps to reduce the chances for barking next time (keeping more distance from the people, using higher value treats etc.). 

I hope this helps! Keep us posted on how things go.

Happy training!

Best,

Adrienne 

[ROGER SAUMURE]

Just wanted to update you on my progress.

In terms of being annoying when guests come over, it just so happens just after we were corresponding, I was taking Lupo on the leash out back for a little training exercise when the person Lupo liked to jump up on came over to meet my wife.  Since I had him on the leash with the treat bag on my belt, Lupo and I walked over to join the conversation.  While Lupo was clearly excited, I was able to get him to sit, and fed him a few treats.  Eventually he just laid down while we continued our conversation.  The same person has come over since (along with many others) and he is really well behaved.  The main and consistent reaction from Lupo when someone comes up the driveway now is a low key warning bark.  This lasts as long as it takes me to come outside to tell him everything is OK and introduce him to whoever it is.  He calms right down and is friendly.  I really think this is exactly the behavior I want to see?

I really use the leash infrequently but I am trying to incorporate it into our daily routine just so he stays used to it.  Its hard because there really is no need for the leash.

We still need to do more work on the car thing though.  Its all about spending time.  My wife and I had to go away over night and a friend offered to watch Lupo.  He was fine with the car ride - he just does not like getting put in the car.  The friend has an older lab with some health issues - as well as some hounds that are kept in a kennel.  About 40 acres of their property is completely fenced (even for snakes!) so Lupo, as an outdoor dog, was completely in his element.  Lupo was a little apprehensive at first with Missy the lab, but after some routine sniffing they got along great.  At night Lupo found his spot under their kitchen table with Missy a few feet away in her bed.  They were amazed to see a six month old - sixty pound puppy so well behaved.  And it was good for Missy too - she showed a lot more activity and seemed quite happy to have a playmate.  So hopefully we can arrange a few play dates as Lupo does not get out much.

Now for my question.  Lupo is still a puppy and fairly large, and with me - very playful.  We play fetch a couple of times a day - and if the treat bag is on my hip he will faithfully drop whatever we are playing with at my feet.  He loves tug o war.  But he also loves for me to chase him.  He also likes to play keep away - where he has a toy and wants me to chase him.  He will also come running at me full speed, take a flying leap into the air and tag me on the shoulder with his nose.  I can see where this could be quite intimidating - but its a behavior he only exhibits with me.  Once he came running at me full bore, jumped and planted both paws on my chest.  Luckily he was the one who went sprawling on the ground and hasn't tried that move since.  When he does get a little too over active, I can either tell him to "settle" and after ha few seconds he will settle down or I can cross my arms and he will sit calmly at my feet.  When he does want to play he will tug at my shirt sleeves - which is a behavior I should probably be discouraging.  I can do this by giving him a toy or a stick and he will dutifully carry that while we walk together.  He's a puppy and wants to play, and every puppy I have ever had liked to rough house to some extent - there have not been that many and they have been years apart.  Our playtime is fun - but I worry that I could be encouraging some bad behaviors that I will regret.  Honestly this dog is so smart he is probably wasted on me - I don't ever see myself bringing him to his full potential.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Thanks for the update and pictures, Lupo is growing so fast! Please see my observations in non-bold. 

In terms of being annoying when guests come over, it just so happens just after we were corresponding, I was taking Lupo on the leash out back for a little training exercise when the person Lupo liked to jump up on came over to meet my wife.  Since I had him on the leash with the treat bag on my belt, Lupo and I walked over to join the conversation.  While Lupo was clearly excited, I was able to get him to sit, and fed him a few treats.  Eventually he just laid down while we continued our conversation.  The same person has come over since (along with many others) and he is really well behaved. 

The main and consistent reaction from Lupo when someone comes up the driveway now is a low key warning bark.  This lasts as long as it takes me to come outside to tell him everything is OK and introduce him to whoever it is.  He calms right down and is friendly. 

I really think this is exactly the behavior I want to see?

Yes, that super great! This way you have a nice compromise, he alerts you (which is very natural for the breed) and then you give him alternate behaviors to engage in and reinforce those which in the background also help create positive associations with the guests. Keep it up, as the guarding instincts become more and more pronounced as he matures. 

I really use the leash infrequently but I am trying to incorporate it into our daily routine just so he stays used to it.  Its hard because there really is no need for the leash.

Although he's a farm dog, wearing a leash and collar and learning some basic foundational training is important. All farm dogs benefit from walks around the building and trailers, rides on the farm truck and learning to be brushed, having their bodies handled, restrained, crated or kenneled.  They benefit from this for when they need to see the vet, be groomed, or go to a pet sitter. 

We still need to do more work on the car thing though. Its all about spending time.  My wife and I had to go away over night and a friend offered to watch Lupo.  He was fine with the car ride - he just does not like getting put in the car.

Yes, best to work on this sooner than later as they get bigger and heavier and also may become more difficult to train when they reach the adolescent/social maturity stage. Making it a fun and rewarding game can help a lot. 

 The friend has an older lab with some health issues - as well as some hounds that are kept in a kennel.  About 40 acres of their property is completely fenced (even for snakes!) so Lupo, as an outdoor dog, was completely in his element.  Lupo was a little apprehensive at first with Missy the lab, but after some routine sniffing they got along great.  At night Lupo found his spot under their kitchen table with Missy a few feet away in her bed.  They were amazed to see a six month old - sixty pound puppy so well behaved.  And it was good for Missy too - she showed a lot more activity and seemed quite happy to have a playmate.  So hopefully we can arrange a few play dates as Lupo does not get out much.

That's awesome! Great job Lupo in acting so well behaved,  your hard work is shining through! 

Now for my question.  Lupo is still a puppy and fairly large, and with me - very playful.  We play fetch a couple of times a day - and if the treat bag is on my hip he will faithfully drop whatever we are playing with at my feet. 

If you want to bring the training a step forward, I suggest trying to fade the sight of the treat bag, just in case one day you'll need to ask him to drop something and you don't have the treat bag on you. You can fade it gradually, moving it a bit more and more out of sight away from your hip, and every now and then surprising him and rewarding him with a treat hidden in your pocket. As cold weather approaches, you can also start wearing the treat bag under your jacket, but in a way that you can still access it as needed. 

He loves tug o war.  But he also loves for me to chase him.  He also likes to play keep away - where he has a toy and wants me to chase him. 

While the game of keep away can be super fun, it can lead to problems along the road because it teaches dogs to run away from us. It's best if dogs learn to chase us, than us to chase them. This because if one day we need to get a hold of them, they may think it's a game and play hard to catch. The hide and seek game can be a fun alternative game that puts their brain to work: 

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/university/hide-and-seek/

He will also come running at me full speed, take a flying leap into the air and tag me on the shoulder with his nose.  I can see where this could be quite intimidating - but its a behavior he only exhibits with me.  Once he came running at me full bore, jumped and planted both paws on my chest.  Luckily he was the one who went sprawling on the ground and hasn't tried that move since. 

When he does get a little too over active, I can either tell him to "settle" and after ha few seconds he will settle down or I can cross my arms and he will sit calmly at my feet. 

Sounds like the Maremma version of a Superman move! I can't imagine how painful it would be if he clashed against you. Reminds me of a dog who once ran into me at full force and the paralyzing pain on my knees I felt afterwards. Sounds like though he has learned he's getting a bit too big for this level of athleticism. 

When he does want to play he will tug at my shirt sleeves - which is a behavior I should probably be discouraging.  I can do this by giving him a toy or a stick and he will dutifully carry that while we walk together.  He's a puppy and wants to play, and every puppy I have ever had liked to rough house to some extent - there have not been that many and they have been years apart. 

Our playtime is fun - but I worry that I could be encouraging some bad behaviors that I will regret.  Honestly this dog is so smart he is probably wasted on me - I don't ever see myself bringing him to his full potential.

It sounds like you are doing a good job in redirecting him, however, we need to always think in terms of reinforcement. If he's tugging at your shirt sleeves and afterwards you play with him or give him attention, then you'll have reinforced the tugging behavior which means it will strengthen and repeat over time. If he tugs and you redirect by overring him a stick, you still risk reinforcing the tugging as well because in the dog's mind: "tug, gets me access to a stick." 

So if we want to extinguish tugging, we can take a multi-modal approach:

-Prevent the behavior from being rehearsed- eg. we can keep our sleeves rolled up high or keep our arms crossed/out of reach. 

-Train an alternate behavior for asking for play. For example, we can ask for sit and then reward that with play. 

In general, I like to to introduce structure and some general rules when engaging with dogs in play. 

-Play takes place when the dog has a soft mouth or doesn't mouth us at all (this depends on what point the puppy is in learning bite inhibition) 

-We are in control on when play starts and when play ends

-We use a specific cue to initiate play that is so unique, it cannot be replicated by others, even by mistake 

-Teach a cue that has your dog settle immediately.

-Take breaks every now and then 

-Recognize early warning signs of your dog tiring from play or getting too amped up. 

How is Lupo doing with the chickens? Being still a puppy, it can be tempting to play with them and chase them, but we need to teach them they are not playmates.  

[ROGER SAUMURE]

On 10/20/2022 at 11:04 AM, Adrienne Farricelli said:

Thanks for your input and observations.  You have been most helpful and I truely appreciate all the feedback.

-While the game of keep away can be super fun, it can lead to problems along the road because it teaches dogs to run away from us. It's best if dogs learn to chase us, than us to chase them. This because if one day we need to get a hold of them, they may think it's a game and play hard to catch. The hide and seek game can be a fun alternative game that puts their brain to work: 

Ok so no more chasing the dog - I think the hide and seek game is something Lupo will absolutely love once he gets the hang of it.  Actually I took a break from writing this response and went out to try it with him - his stay is pretty solid and that worked out well.  My wife came by saying "no way this is going to work".  I told het to go around the corner of the building just out of sight but she actually went around another corner and tucked into a hiding spot.  Lupo went looking for her - even I did not see her but he sniffed her out.  He was obviously excited to find her but came running back to me for his treat.  While Lupo is quite attached to my wife and probably would have sought her out anyway, its clear he enjoyed this exercise and it could be fun for all of us.

-We use a specific cue to initiate play that is so unique, it cannot be replicated by others, even by mistake 

Ok have to give this one a lot of thought.  But I think I need to channel our play time into fun training exercises vs plain rough housing.

-Teach a cue that has your dog settle immediately. 

The one that has always worked since he was a puppy is simply folding my arms across my chest.  On our walk this morning every time he started to tug at me, I would stop, fold my arms and Lupo would sit.  He seems to be getting the message - and I need to be consistent in reinforcing good behavior.  (l also started taking him out to the field on a leash which is working out really well.)  And we spent a few minutes working on "heel".  He has always been pretty good at staying close to me so I never worried too much about it, but I think the mental stimulation he gets from learning to perform to a command is good for him.  We walked together, and when I would stop he would stop and sit next to me.  Previously if I would stop, he would walk a few steps in front of me and look back to make sure I was coming.  I also noticed that he changed his position ever so slightly as we were walking (his nose at my leg instead of slightly ahead of me) so that he could anticipate when I might stop and he could sit and get his treat.  I do want to work on getting the heel a little tighter - so that when I call him and tell him to heel, he comes to my left side, faces forward and sits.

-Recognize early warning signs of your dog tiring from play or getting too amped up. 

I will just channel the play into more games of fetch, and tug o war.  When he gets the zoomies - he can be intense - running around like crazy and jumping - but the episodes are normally short-lived.

How is Lupo doing with the chickens? Being still a puppy, it can be tempting to play with them and chase them, but we need to teach them they are not playmates. 

He is doing great with the chickens and the chickens have adjusted to having him around.  It can be quite a chore to round up a bunch of free ranging chickens into a coop especially if there is enough light left that they are not ready to enter the coop on their own.  While I am not going to say that he helps round them up, he does seem to have a sense when they are too far from the coop at the end of the day and will walk close enough to them so that they start heading to the coop.  I have also seen him watch the chickens during the day - especially one that has gone off on her own - and encourage it to move towards the rest of the flock.  And we have not had any predator problems since we got him - with the exception of one fox that Lupo chased off never to return.  And that was a couple of months ago and Lupo was a lot lighter.

 

[ROGER SAUMURE]

On 10/22/2022 at 12:38 PM, ROGER SAUMURE said:

How is Lupo doing with the chickens? Being still a puppy, it can be tempting to play with them and chase them, but we need to teach them they are not playmates. 

Here is a picture of Lupo with his favorite hen.  This hen is one that my wife rescued or nursed back to health.  But the hen cannot run like the other hens and tends to get picked on.  We keep her segregated from the other hens in the coop but she wants her time out side to free range and we had to keep an eye on her and the other hens.  Lupo as a puppy developed a fondness for her - to the point we were afraid he might hurt her.  Over time Lupo mellowed and now will check on her and just his presence keeps the more aggressive hens and roosters at bay.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Awww, that's adorable! Great job Lupetto! (Little wolf in Italian). 

We raised our Rotties with our chickens since they were chicks and they became family-like.

It's so interesting watching two different species interact.

Your hen looks very comfortable around his protector! Lupo's very lucky to have the luxury of living on a farm and having a "job."

[ROGER SAUMURE]

So its been a while but Lupo has been doing great.  I tried walking him on a leash off the property and he was having none of it at first.  He was obviously uncomfortable with things he was not familiar with.  We kept at it and now we are doing around 4 miles whenever the weather permits and sometimes even when it doesn't.  I do have him on a HS (Herm Sprenger) collar although I rarely apply any correction and then only mildly.  It was mostly for his own good as he would want to pull me up hills or lunge at passing cars.  He is over this now and stands by my side until cars pass.  He will issue a sharp bark if he thinks they are going too fast (yes I am serious).  I can keep the leash short and he will walk by my side and most of the time the leash pressure is not even there - but I like to let him sniff and explore as well so I give him some leash freedom.  He loves little kids and they love to pet the big white fluffy dog.  We did have a run in with a pit bull that was not fenced in but got away with no real damage.  The next house we came to has a golden retriever so we spent a few minutes until the two of them started playing together.  Really don't want Lupo to get dog aggressive.  We did have a run in with a porcupine as well and put up with me for 2 hours pulling quills.  We already had a scheduled visit with the vet a couple of days later and he was even impressed that we got the quills out.  Lupo even got into the car for the ride to and from the vet!  Big progress for us here!

He does like to bury everything from bones to frisbees.  He will did a hole place the item in the hole and very carefully cover the hole - most times you would not even know he has been digging.  He has to have stuff buried all over the place.  I have even asked him to get his toy and he will go dig it up so we can play.  The problem is when he digs something up he never fills in the hole - LOL.  Probably something we will just have to live with.

A while back I started working with Lupo to jump over something on command - which he will do.  I kept it to something he could step over just because his joints are developing but when is it safe to go higher?  He could easily clear 3 feet if he wanted to and my wife and neighbor watched him do just that.

Also I would like to work with him on some scent training - any suggestions on where to start?

I have to say I am totally amazed with this dog/breed.  He has been having major fur blow outs recently so all that brushing when he was a puppy really paid off.  I had to go over him every 2-3 days way in the back of the yard.  The birds and the mice are loving it though!

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Hi there, I am so happy to hear about "Lupetto" growing into such a lovely dog, doing well on walks, going on car rides, stoically tolerating the pain of getting porcupine quills off, and happy to meet/greet people! Keep up the great work and pat yourself on the back for a well-done job. These dogs aren't the easiest to persuade and train.

We want to maintain this and praise/give treats when he sees people, because when it comes to livestock guardians, they may become more aloof as they reach social maturity. Of course every dog is different, there is a Maremma-like dog nearby my vacation home in Italy (her name is Bianca) that, every time she sees me she comes to say hi and solicits some petting and she's probably around 4-5 years old. She's a frequenter of a nautical club I am a member of and she's always social around people entering the club and even other dogs. I have never given her food, she just likes the attention and yeah, who can resist petting a cuddly ball of white fluff. 😍

To answer your question about the jumping, in general we want to wait until their growth plates close. With a large breed dog like yours, it's likely to happen more around 18 months to 24 months. I would ask your vet about this to be on the safe side, he may want to take x-rays eventually before giving the all clear.  He or she may tell you whether you can maybe start with some low jumps and give you exact guidelines (like for example jumps no taller than his elbows). Something to certainly check with your vet so as to know where he is at with his skeletal development. 

In regards to scent training, that is surely fun! You can start with treasure hunts using his kibble and hiding it around: https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/elementary/the-treasure-hunt/ and then making the game more and more challenging. 

Games of hide and seek are also good as they will teach him to use his sense of smell to find people: https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/university/hide-and-seek/

 And if you want to go the extra mile there are canine nosework kits you can purchase online and classes. 

Attached are some pictures of "Bianca" 

 

[ROGER SAUMURE]

Bianca looks like she just wants to have fun.  Too bad so far away - but hey Italy is a good life.  And I am sure its great for her too.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Yeah, she's a happy camper, gets lots of attention and sometimes even some tasty morsels from people sitting at the bar wiling to share a little Italian brioche. She already has somebody who feeds her  along with the other dogs, so all those are extras 😉

[ROGER SAUMURE]

So as I mentioned Lupo has been doing really well on the leash.  We try to get in 2-4 miles a day.  Being in a rural area there are all kinds of distractions (deer, turkeys, horses, feral cats, cars) and I really wanted to start proofing him to see how he will react when not on a leash.  So on our walk home yesterday I dropped the lease and he walked the last mile at my side the whole time.  If he started to deviate, I simply called him and he went right back into position.  With passing cars I would stop walking and tell him to stay (by my side) and he calmly waited for the car to pass.  Seems like the more time we spend together the more we understand each others expectations and how to work together.  BTW caught a few of your articles on Pethelpful.  Really well done.  Just a note - Lupo does have the double dew claws on his hind legs.

 

 

[ROGER SAUMURE]

Here is another clip of Lupo.  My wife has some crackers she is using as a treat for the chickens and Lupo.  Notice when she drops some of the crackers Lupo doesn't dive in after them (even thought he wants his treat too) but instead waits for one to be offered to him.  He is so chill.

 

 

 

[Adrienne Farricelli]

That's so nice! I love how well behaved Lupo is around the chicken and not trying to catch the crumbs, and that's some lovely heelwork there!😍

Careful around strong distractions, even though our dogs can be perfectly behaved and trained, there are always chances for them taking off.

Keep up the great work guys!

[ROGER SAUMURE]

So its been a while since I have been here and Lupo turned 3 last month.  While he is a great big 3 year old puppy who loves to play - I really could not have asked for a better dog.  He has bonded so well with my wife and me - probably something most Marema owners don't care about but while I expect working dogs to work, I really cant just use them as purely a "tool".  We still go on our walks and he knows exactly the spot where he gets to go off leash and will stop even if I forget LOL.  He clearly understands every command I give him - although he may think about what else is going on before responding - but he does respond.  This just how this breed is programmed.  If I do tell him to stay he will freeze in his tracks.  and when he is off leash he will never not know exactly where I am - always looking back to see where I am.  He still spends all day outside and only comes in at night.  I never had a problem with him trying to leave the property - ever.  Now if we can train him not to shed....LOL  Thank you so much for all your help!

[Adrienne Farricelli]

On 5/24/2025 at 5:07 PM, ROGER SAUMURE said:

So its been a while since I have been here and Lupo turned 3 last month.  While he is a great big 3 year old puppy who loves to play - I really could not have asked for a better dog.  He has bonded so well with my wife and me - probably something most Marema owners don't care about but while I expect working dogs to work, I really cant just use them as purely a "tool".  We still go on our walks and he knows exactly the spot where he gets to go off leash and will stop even if I forget LOL.  He clearly understands every command I give him - although he may think about what else is going on before responding - but he does respond.  This just how this breed is programmed.  If I do tell him to stay he will freeze in his tracks.  and when he is off leash he will never not know exactly where I am - always looking back to see where I am.  He still spends all day outside and only comes in at night.  I never had a problem with him trying to leave the property - ever.  Now if we can train him not to shed....LOL  Thank you so much for all your help!

What a lovely update!

Thank you for the heartwarming update on Lupo,  it’s so wonderful to hear how well he’s doing and how strong the bond between you has become. Maremmas are a deeply independent and intelligent breed, so the relationship you describe is a testament to the mutual trust and respect you’ve built with him.

Your recognition that working dogs are not just “tools” but partners is not only refreshing but behaviorally important. Dogs,even those bred for centuries to work independently, thrive when their emotional needs are considered alongside their functional role. You’ve clearly struck a thoughtful balance between honoring Lupo’s instincts and building a meaningful companionship!

It’s particularly impressive that he shows such reliable off-leash control and stays close by. His ability to pause at the off-leash spot, monitor your location, and respond reliably to commands (even with a moment of thoughtful decision-making, which is so typical of the breed) reflects excellent communication and trust.

Your note about him never attempting to leave the property speaks volumes about how well his needs are being met and I mean this both environmentally and emotionally. 

As for the shedding — if only we had a behavioral fix for that! If only genetics were so negotiable! Fortunately, a well-maintained grooming routine, the right tools (like undercoat rakes ), and perhaps some good humor can make it more manageable.

Thank you again for sharing your success story. It’s a joy to hear about dogs like Lupo thriving in homes where their nature is understood and embraced.

Best,

Adrienne