Excitement peeing

[Adrienne Farricelli]

2 hours ago, H MORRIS said:

Oh wow, you are so good noticing that bark. I’ve looked at it again and can see what you mean. I realise now that with all his little movements, barks, sneezes and looks . . he’s trying to tell me things and I’m too dumb to understand him. Lol. Also I can see what you mean about petting him with toys around. We’ve still got a lot to learn here. I’ve got to advance now to the next part of that training by putting a verbal cue on it and getting him to clear up lots of toys scattered around rather than just one, without taking them out of the box. But I’ve got something to work with here.

I’ve also been trying your suggestion about the flirt toy. I’ve put him the ‘down’ and asked him to ‘leave it’ as I move the flirt toy around. He’s very good and doesn’t move until I say ‘free’. He’ll also let go with an ‘out’ which is brilliant. The hardest part of all that Is actually the ‘down’, he’s great by the house but doesn’t like to do it elsewhere, I usually have a bit of wait while he looks about a bit nervously. That’s an area I definitely need to work on. 
 

Re handling. I’ve looked at the collar grab and as we do a lot of recalls, I’ll add that to it. There was a time we couldn’t have dreamed of getting a harness on and off, but we do that now with front paws on a step, giving us permission while he gets a bit of squirty cream. It works well but we’re struggling to graduate away from that bribery situation, like we eventually managed with the collar. 
 

Many many thanks again for some great tips.

Lovely work with the flirt pole! With dogs who find it difficult to lie down outside of the home, it can be a matter of not feeling too safe (they feel vulnerable in that position), but sometimes it can also be a matter of not liking to lie down on certain surfaces. If he's not feeling safe, there's more to work on at an emotional level, finding out what triggers concern them and helping them feel more comfortable in their surroundings. 

Careful with the collar grabs. If you are already dealing with a dog who dislikes handling, it requires a more gradual, systematic approach, compared to practicing collar grabs in dogs with no history. They need extra care to establish positive associations and progressing slowly at a comfortable level. As always, make safety top priority and consult with a behavior professional if there's aggression/risk for aggression. 

[H MORRIS]

Thanks again Adrienne. It’s very hard to find specific triggers, it depends on his mood, the type dogs, what people are wearing, the type of noise. He meets some people really well, but family and friends who come to the house he’s completely OTT and strangers have a huge variation in his reaction. We met a teenager on the lane who asked to pet Finn and he did a roll over and loved the tickle, but he met a boy recently who was visiting next door who had long flowing auburn hair and he wouldn’t go near him, barking the whole time and backing up. Some dogs he’s friendly with, others he’s reactive, some frightened of. Some noises he barks at, others he’s not worried. A really low flying Chinook helicopter came over the garden last week and Finn didn’t even bat an eyelid. I’ve had dog barking playing on Alexa and my phone since he was tiny and always treated him. We go out and hear a dog bark behind a fence and he pretty much ignores it. Another time he can hear one in the distance and he focuses in it. As a complete amateur I find it confusing. He’ll always react to cats and rabbits though, he always reacts to noises of people/cars near the house if he’s in the garden or inside and he always reacts to the doorbell going off. We’ve tried sneaking around and ringing the doorbell many many times as a training aid and he’s often quiet because he knows it’s us somehow, but if we’re both inside he barks like crazy. Lol.

[H MORRIS]

One other thing I meant to ask, sorry. I’m working hard, in line with your suggestion of extending the time he settles on his bed before he gets his kong and a few pieces of chicken while we eat. The goal is to get him to sit quietly all the way through our meal and then he gets fed when we finish. At the moment we’re up to 2 mins, but during the time he waits, he can’t stay settled. He stays on his bed though, but he’s giving us behaviours all the time hoping we’ll feed him, cycling from sit to down to bow and back. Do we just ignore him?

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Thanks again Adrienne. It’s very hard to find specific triggers, it depends on his mood, the type dogs, what people are wearing, the type of noise. He meets some people really well, but family and friends who come to the house he’s completely OTT and strangers have a huge variation in his reaction. We met a teenager on the lane who asked to pet Finn and he did a roll over and loved the tickle, but he met a boy recently who was visiting next door who had long flowing auburn hair and he wouldn’t go near him, barking the whole time and backing up. Some dogs he’s friendly with, others he’s reactive, some frightened of. Some noises he barks at, others he’s not worried. A really low flying Chinook helicopter came over the garden last week and Finn didn’t even bat an eyelid. I’ve had dog barking playing on Alexa and my phone since he was tiny and always treated him. We go out and hear a dog bark behind a fence and he pretty much ignores it. Another time he can hear one in the distance and he focuses in it. As a complete amateur I find it confusing.

With such variability, it helps to play it safe and desensitize and create positive associations with all triggers so that you have all basis covered. In other words, when he sees people, prevent any potential barking and toss treats on the ground. So a boy comes to visit, keep him at a distance from the door and toss treats for him to gather.  Feed treats on walks every time he sees a dog and keep him at a comfortable distance. He hears barking in distance or close, feed treats regardless. 

He’ll always react to cats and rabbits though, he always reacts to noises of people/cars near the house if he’s in the garden or inside and he always reacts to the doorbell going off. We’ve tried sneaking around and ringing the doorbell many many times as a training aid and he’s often quiet because he knows it’s us somehow, but if we’re both inside he barks like crazy. Lol.

Is the barking at people approaching the house short lived? Are you able to get his focus? Most dogs will naturally bark when a car or person approaches our property, as they are taking on their "watch dog" duties and try to alert us. If we can block it to 2-3 barks max, say thank you and feed some treats to let them know we are aware, then that is a more controlled form of barking versus a dog who is freaking out. 

I tackle barking at people or cars approaching with a smacking sound, firstly practicing from behind a window to a very fluent level, before practicing outdoors. 

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/university/look-at-that/

If he spends time in the yard outdoors on his own frequently, I find that dogs are more likely to engage in barking as they start feeling as if they need to take their "matters" in their own hands. 

With the door bell, you may want to disable it to prevent a guest from popping up outside of the training and triggering rehearsal. If he's fine with one of you doing the ringing, but struggles when you' re both inside, you can have a recording of your door bell play while you're both seated (have treats ready in your pocket) and then progress to having a volunteer practice ringing the bell. Always keep treats ready for the training and in case an unexpected guest arrives.  

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/behavior-training/barking/doorbells-knocks-on-doors/

[Adrienne Farricelli]

On 7/25/2022 at 3:13 PM, H MORRIS said:

One other thing I meant to ask, sorry. I’m working hard, in line with your suggestion of extending the time he settles on his bed before he gets his kong and a few pieces of chicken while we eat. The goal is to get him to sit quietly all the way through our meal and then he gets fed when we finish. At the moment we’re up to 2 mins, but during the time he waits, he can’t stay settled. He stays on his bed though, but he’s giving us behaviours all the time hoping we’ll feed him, cycling from sit to down to bow and back. Do we just ignore him?

Most likely, he's wondering why he isn't getting his Kong as early as before. In general, we should ignore these attempts of getting our attention, wait for them to settle (ideally lying down) and then after settling, waiting like 10 seconds (to prevent a behavior chain) before giving the Kong if you're at the 2 minute timeframe.

The delay of 10 seconds is to prevent a chain of the dog learning to purposely offer behaviors and then lying down to get the Kong. In other words, we are trying to get the dog to forget about the previous behavior (offering behaviors) so he doesn't think he is being rewarded for that, but mostly for lying down.

If you are far from the 2 minute, you'll then have to keep on ignoring hoping that he eventually gives up trying and settles on the mat. However, if this is happening at a high level of intensity or too often, and the exercise appears to create too much frustration, we may need to go back to the drawing board and evaluate why the exercise is too difficult for him.

He may need to learn more how to relax on a mat and build duration on mat time (out of the kitchen context) and do more impulse control exercises and learn the art of delayed gratification. He may not be ready for this level of training yet. 

 

[Adrienne Farricelli]

I edited to fix a typo of time, was saying 5-6 seconds, but then 10 seconds. If possible, I would stick closer to 10 to play it safe, especially with the very attentive breeds who are more likely to make connections. Another option to prevent a behavior chain is to add in a behavior, so after he's lying nicely on the mat, as you approach with the Kong, you can ask him to give you paw or hand target and then give the Kong so to reduce chances of being associated with the previous behaviors of offering behaviors. 

[H MORRIS]

Wow, you've really simplified things. I've been practising the treats on the floor with 'Get it' no matter what the trigger is or distance since your post on Wednesday. I've stopped the kissy noise and 'look at that' temporarily and its made a big difference. To be honest, it's me, I've not been really sure in which of the different circumstances to use those 3 and just having one thing to think about is easier. It's working too. It seems to be breaking his focus better, particularly if I'm quick. A cat jumped on a wall this morning about 10 ft from him and normally he'd fixate on the cat and not move while I did a couple of kissy noises to get his attention which often he'd ignore. This time 3 treats on the floor and a 'get it' and it broke his focus immediately and he walked on. Success! It also stopped him barking at the mail man,  immediately. He's really got the hang if it since I've upped its use. If I can continue with this I hope to see a decrease in his hyper-vigilance. Thanks so much.

Re: the mealtimes, we're still at 2 minutes and I've ignored the up and down stuff on his bed, like you suggested and thrown in a 'wait' at 1m 50 to get us over the last few seconds without a bark coming. We'll see how that goes.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Sounds like things are progressing nicely!

So just to clarify things, and make a fair comparison, the moment Finn sees a trigger (cats) are you:

-Tossing the treats first, and then saying "get it?"

-Tossing the treats as you're simultaneously saying "get it"?

-Or saying first "get it" and then tossing the treats?

Also, in what order are you using the smacking sound? 

The order in which we do things can really make a difference.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Re: the mealtimes, we're still at 2 minutes and I've ignored the up and down stuff on his bed, like you suggested and thrown in a 'wait' at 1m 50 to get us over the last few seconds without a bark coming. We'll see how that goes.

If Finn keeps struggling with this increase, there may be chances that he's starting to predict a pattern of the exercise getting harder and harder. We can see this happening like for example, when we're increasing duration in a dog staying in a crate or increasing duration with our absences, leaving out of a room or  door (as in the case of dogs struggling with separation anxiety).

We think of this often for dogs who are anxious stressed, but in a dog who is learning the ropes of more impulse control (like young, adolescent dogs) or has been receiving tid bits of food at the table and now no more,  this can create some frustration and/or stress too. 

A little tweak that can help in these cases if you notice signs of struggling, is dampening the impact of that increase in time, by mixing in, every now and then, shorter durations. This variability can help the dog not to feel such big hurdles when the time is increased. Therefore, you can try to add a bit of a variety of times. Like 2 minutes- 1 min. 45 seconds - 2 minutes 15 seconds and so on.

 

[H MORRIS]

22 hours ago, Adrienne Farricelli said:

Sounds like things are progressing nicely!

So just to clarify things, and make a fair comparison, the moment Finn sees a trigger (cats) are you:

-Tossing the treats first, and then saying "get it?"

-Tossing the treats as you're simultaneously saying "get it"?

-Or saying first "get it" and then tossing the treats?

Also, in what order are you using the smacking sound? 

The order in which we do things can really make a difference.

Heck, now you’ve got me! Trying to think.  I hold the lead in my right hand as he walks on left. My left hand has three little treats in it, ready. If he reacts to a trigger, I say “Get it” then I toss the treats behind him on the floor. It’s now working every time. I’m working on the kissy noise separately in and around the house to try and build that, as it clearly isn’t strong enough to grab his attention when distractions happen out and about.

[H MORRIS]

20 hours ago, Adrienne Farricelli said:

Re: the mealtimes, we're still at 2 minutes and I've ignored the up and down stuff on his bed, like you suggested and thrown in a 'wait' at 1m 50 to get us over the last few seconds without a bark coming. We'll see how that goes.

If Finn keeps struggling with this increase, there may be chances that he's starting to predict a pattern of the exercise getting harder and harder. We can see this happening like for example, when we're increasing duration in a dog staying in a crate or increasing duration with our absences, leaving out of a room or  door (as in the case of dogs struggling with separation anxiety).

We think of this often for dogs who are anxious stressed, but in a dog who is learning the ropes of more impulse control (like young, adolescent dogs) or has been receiving tid bits of food at the table and now no more,  this can create some frustration and/or stress too. 

A little tweak that can help in these cases if you notice signs of struggling, is dampening the impact of that increase in time, by mixing in, every now and then, shorter durations. This variability can help the dog not to feel such big hurdles when the time is increased. Therefore, you can try to add a bit of a variety of times. Like 2 minutes- 1 min. 45 seconds - 2 minutes 15 seconds and so on.

 

Great stuff. I’ll throw in some shorter times to mix it up. Thanks for that.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

3 hours ago, H MORRIS said:

Heck, now you’ve got me! Trying to think.  I hold the lead in my right hand as he walks on left. My left hand has three little treats in it, ready. If he reacts to a trigger, I say “Get it” then I toss the treats behind him on the floor. It’s now working every time. I’m working on the kissy noise separately in and around the house to try and build that, as it clearly isn’t strong enough to grab his attention when distractions happen out and about.

Thanks so much for the extra detail! That's OK, when we are so focused in the moment, it becomes difficult to recall the exact mechanics, but your description helped me out. As previously mentioned, I still suggest sticking to your "get it" cue if it seems to attain better results. If you are using the smacking sound in the same fashion, it's likely that your "get it" attains better results because it has a stronger history of rewards (if you have been using it for longer), and your voice likely has been established as a predictor of a double whammy of fun: catching fallen treats and eating them. Keep having fun with it, sounds like Finn is having a blast!

Another thing to consider is that, with the smacking sound, after several trials, the goal is to get dogs to start making eye contact with us in anticipation for their treat, so we're working a bit more on an operant level. This is a bit a step higher in difficulty than plain saying "get it" and tossing the treats.

In presence of strong distractions or when training hasn't been started yet, it may be easier to forego the eye contact (or any other operant behavior) and just go the "raw" route and directly toss the treats. I often suggest this strategy (without the cue) with nippy puppies who are approaching owners with an intent to nip. Being that they likely haven't been trained yet at a fluent level and their impulse control needs tweaking, just a simple treat toss will work well to prevent the problem behavior. As the pup matures and does better, we can then insert a sit/look at me' hand target or other operant prior to the treat toss. 

Keep up the great work with Finn!

[H MORRIS]

On 7/31/2022 at 2:37 PM, Adrienne Farricelli said:

Thanks so much for the extra detail! That's OK, when we are so focused in the moment, it becomes difficult to recall the exact mechanics, but your description helped me out. As previously mentioned, I still suggest sticking to your "get it" cue if it seems to attain better results. If you are using the smacking sound in the same fashion, it's likely that your "get it" attains better results because it has a stronger history of rewards (if you have been using it for longer), and your voice likely has been established as a predictor of a double whammy of fun: catching fallen treats and eating them. Keep having fun with it, sounds like Finn is having a blast!

Another thing to consider is that, with the smacking sound, after several trials, the goal is to get dogs to start making eye contact with us in anticipation for their treat, so we're working a bit more on an operant level. This is a bit a step higher in difficulty than plain saying "get it" and tossing the treats.

In presence of strong distractions or when training hasn't been started yet, it may be easier to forego the eye contact (or any other operant behavior) and just go the "raw" route and directly toss the treats. I often suggest this strategy (without the cue) with nippy puppies who are approaching owners with an intent to nip. Being that they likely haven't been trained yet at a fluent level and their impulse control needs tweaking, just a simple treat toss will work well to prevent the problem behavior. As the pup matures and does better, we can then insert a sit/look at me' hand target or other operant prior to the treat toss. 

Keep up the great work with Finn!

Thanks Adrienne. I'm pleased the simple 'Get it' + treats on the ground is breaking up his hypervigilant fixation on triggers out on a walk. I'm using it everyday now and I can stop him from blanking me out as he stares at his many triggers. But recognise I need to be able to get his attention on me using the kissy/smaking sound if nothing else because tossing 3 or 4 treats on the ground several times on a walk is driving up the calories. I'm trying to switch his training to toys as much as possible because I don't want his weight to be an issue. But with anxious dogs that have a lot of different priblems I'm finding this to be difficult to manage. Every video you watch says arm yourself with a handful of very tasty treats. Lol.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

There are lots of ways around the extra calories if you're concerned. Rather than tossing 3-4 whole treats on the ground, you can split a treat in multiple pieces and toss those instead and if you are left with very little you can mix in some kibble if he likes that and see if his enthusiasm stays the same. I would test this though first just in case, because it would be a pity losing the lovely progress you have made over something that can be remedied. 

I don't know what type of treats you are using, but if they're the soft, chewy type, you should easily be able to split each in maybe 3 pieces.  

Perhaps the best way around this is to split the treats more in other areas of training (where you are dealing with less distractions, like at home) and leave the "largest portion" for the biggest outdoor challenges. 

Many dog owners are often surprised when they see how small I can break up the pieces of a regular-sized treat. I often can get as many as 4 to 10 smaller pieces, and each piece can be used to reinforce one desired behavior. This means that with just one treat I can reinforce as many as 10 to 20 behaviors!  Of course, in your case, you could use this for training in other scenarios, like at home under less intense distractions, leaving the biggest chunks for working on behavior/emotional issues.

If you really want to delve deeper on calories, consult with your vet and firstly determine if your dog is packing pounds and then ask about how many treats your dog can eat a day based on your dog's weight and the treats' caloric count. Your vet can provide info on your dog's daily caloric requirements and how many treats would be OK. Then, once you have the ideal number, split those treats into small pieces and arrange your training session around that. You can then divide them into groups based on how many times you train your dog a day, strategically ending the session when you have finished the allotted amount of treats.

There are also lower calorie options. The fewer calories a treat has, the more you can provide. Look for treats that are advertised as being very low calorie. For instance, Bixbi Pocket Trainers provide less than 4 calories per treat.

For sake of example, last time I had a small Yorkie mix that weighed a little less than 7 pounds. These small dogs can get full rather quickly. Her vet assumed that her caloric requirements were probably around 200 calories per day. With that in mind, she would need to not go over 20 calories from treats considering that ideally we don't want dogs to obtain more than 10 percent of their caloric intake from treats. At 4 calories per treat, she could get up to 5 treats a day (5x4=20). While 5 treats a day may seem like very little, once you break them up into 4 pieces each, that leads to 20 treats that can be used to reinforce 20 desirable behaviors!

There are many other low-calorie options on the market nowadays, like Plato small bites and Zuke's Mini Naturals (one of my favorites), which contain just a mere 2 calories per treat! 

Also, there's the option of using dog friendly fruit and veggies. Many dog owners use fruits and veggies for training their dogs. This is a good option considering that these healthy human foods have low calories which helps avoiding that dogs eat more than 10 percent of the daily calories.

Board-certified veterinary nutritionist Dr. Linder lists several low-calorie options for dogs on Petfoodology by Cummings Veterinary Medical Center
at Tufts University. Among the lowest calorie options dogs are blueberries, watermelon and baby carrots. https://vetnutrition.tufts.edu/2017/12/does-an-apple-a-day-keep-the-vet-away-harmful-vs-healthy-foods-for-pets/

Please don't just feed any fruit or veggie you come across without ensuring first that they're not toxic to your dog. For instance, consider that grapes, raisins, nuts, onions and garlic can be harmful and some of them even toxic to dogs.

If you have used up your dog's daily allotted quantity of treats, but would like to train more or capture more desired behaviors, you can keep on rewarding, but this time using your dog's kibble. Have you ever counted how many pieces of kibble are in your dog's daily meals? Those are many lost opportunities for training!

If your dog loves eating his kibble, and you can get your dog to think that kibble is as good as treats, then you'll easily have plenty of training opportunities without having to depend on higher-calorie treats. Here's the thing: you can persuade your dog into loving to eat kibble by simply making him earn it. The scientific term is "contrafreeloading."

This term was coined by animal psychologist Glen Jensen in 1963 who described the phenomenon of animals who come to prefer eating food that requires some effort to obtain versus food offered freely.

To put this in practice, simply measure the recommended daily ratio of kibble you should feed and place it into a treat pouch and feed it throughout the day. If you happen to have any leftovers, you can serve this extra kibble in your dog's bowl, Kong Wobbler, or you can organize a fun treasure hunt game.

To prevent your dog's stomach acid from building too much acid, it may help to do a small meal in the morning and one in the evening, and then use the rest training treats. Consult with your vet if your dog has a medical condition, such as food allergies or low blood glucose for guidelines. 

A trick of the trade to increase the value of kibble for training is to place it in a bag with some pieces hot dogs in the fridge. Mix them well so they rub and retain some "hot dog juice" then you can remove the hot dogs if you want, but the kibble will smell and taste like hot dogs. 

Now, if your vet gives you the amount of calories/treats your dog can have a day, and you need to make the best out of that, considering the need for behavior modification (which is priority over training tricks at home), you can strategically make the best out of that by working around that amount. 

So let's say a dog can have 10 treats which you can divide in 4 pieces each, making them 40. Make the best out of that by walking in quiet areas and plan meet only up to 10 triggers. Plan to toss 4 pieces at a time (mixed with kibble if your do is willing to eat that too)  and not encountering more than 10 triggers.  Use the emergency u-turn https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/emergency-u-turn/ if you're running short, and once the treats are about half way used (like 20 left), start walking back home. Try to never run short on them as unexpected things happen.

I had the unimaginable happen at the end of walks, like my neighbor forgetting her gate open and her group of 6 chihuahuas trying to attack the heels of dogs on walks and those treats came handy to distract them as I made a quick exit with a reactive dog. 

If your dog is toy-driven, you can also intermittently provide a toy to play tug with or catch, but you may need to test its value beforehand. Careful with playing tug on walks as some dogs get addicted to that, and if one day they're really aroused by something and no tug toy is presented, they may start venting their frustration by biting and tugging the leash.

So bottom line is, make the best out of treats using them for where you need them the most (behavior modification/areas of high distractions/ emotional arousal). You can then use small pieces of treats or kibble or fruits and toys for training in quieter areas (like at home). If your dog responds well to these latter, you can therefore leave the highest value treats for where they matter the most. 

[H MORRIS]

Amazing response. OK I’ve already worked out the calories from various websites for the dog of this breed and size. I’ve also worked out all the amounts of the various feeds he gets which is JR dog pate for serious training, cooked chicken, which we boil ourselves, and the two types of kibble, Tribal duck for filling kongs and Eden (small chunks for) general training and walks. I’ve cut the the Eden into even smaller chunks and put them in a training pouch with a slice of chopped JR pate to get the extra taste and oils like you suggested. So far it’s going well and hopefully it’ll keep his weight down. I’m doing as much training as possible around the home with toys. Thanks so much, really helpful.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Sounds like a plan! If there are any new dog foods being added, make sure to follow the directions on the bag about how to switch over gradually so to avoid upset tummies. You're on a roll with the training, keep up the great work!

[H MORRIS]

Thanks Adrienne we're doing our best for him with your help. As you know he gets a lot of exercise, brain training games, puzzles, and obedience training to help him cope.

Another area we're struggling with is his demand barking. This nearly always arises in the early evening, rarely outside this. The two things that set it off are the smell of cooking in the kitchen or us sitting down together to watch some TV. It's like his biological clock makes him most hyper between 5pm and 7pm. He'll stare us in the face and bark. He's saying, "I'm hungry", or "I want to play and you're sitting down". We know this because all his other needs are taken care of. He gets a walk before 5pm for a toilet break, we give him water, a chew (rubber bone, antler, yak chew) and a toy. It gets very persistent and loud at times. I've tried putting him in a quiet place to calm down by leading him into another room with his toys and leaving him to settle, but he's wise to this now and knows. He won't fall for going after treats and drops to floor on his back if you approach him. We put a lead on him but he won't budge unless I pick him up, which I'm trying not to do. We want him to make the right choice himself. He's so clever. We've tried using his mat/bed to settle him, but whilst he's very good at going to his mat at other times of the day when we practise mat work, when he's in a barking mood he'll ignore it. We've tried ignoring him, which is very difficult but he'll jump on to chairs and nose a cushion onto the floor and stare at us, or threaten to bite a rug, while looking at us. He really is quite naughty at times. Our daughter says we're way too soft with him. But he's come a looooong way in 2 years since that feral pup we got that we couldn't even handle, and the ladt thing I want to do is scare him.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Yes, we definitely don't want to use any harsh techniques considering all the progress you have made and even more so considering your dog being on the "soft" side rolling over and peeing excitedly/submissively when greeting. It sounds like the timeouts in a different room are perceived as too aversive (despite the fact he's given toys) so we want to skip going that route. 

We usually see these behaviors in dogs who are bored or understimulated or haven't seen their owners for a good portion of the day, but it looks like you are doing a great job in keeping him exercised and mentally stimulated, although these collies are workaholics and seem to never get tired enough. 

It may be worthy of experimenting tweaking a bit his routine and seeing whether offering activities prior to the 5 to 7 "witching hours" can help make a  difference. Like if he has a nap between 3-5 dedicate that time to do exercise, play and walks to see if investing that time in these activities can yield some more relaxing hours afterward. 

Many dogs get an energy burst after eating, so after that, it may be a good time let him spend some time in the yard doing some low-impact but tiring activities such as hiding a remaining portion of kibble around the yard or walking him on a loose long leash around just to sniff around. Hiding some kibble in some boxes to find (they also sell nosework kits) can be also be surprising tiring. Shaping with a clicker can be mentally draining too. 

Some questions that come to mind is what have you done in the past in these circumstances. When barking while you are cooking, have you ever fed tidbits of food? When barking while watching the TV have you tossed him a ball or given him something to do in response to the barking? These forms of barking often take place when we have done something and they expect a continuum of that, but it can also take place when there's some underlying anxiety.

Does he enjoy being petted? Belly rubs? Massages?

Does he seem to struggle relaxing/falling asleep?

Does he get enough sleep during the day?

Does he follow you around all the time and struggles being left alone?

Does he seem to always want attention? 

Have you been providing activities that encourage independence/allow you to ignore him intermittently throughout the day so that he learns to cope better with withdrawal of attention? 

 

[H MORRIS]

Here he is barking today.

No, he doesn’t get food until mealtimes or during training. In the past we try and ride these tantrums out, or we get up and leave the room, shut the door and come back in after 15 seconds or so. If it goes on too long he goes in a quiet room with toys or chews. Sometimes they’re only brief before he gives up and crashes. Usually it’s when we both sit down together, if one is sitting and the other doing jobs he’s fine. We never throw him a ball because he’s always attention seeking with a ball. He’ll drop it under a chair or sofa and bark because he can’t get it. When we sit down though he’s always had his needs taken care of and gets a chew of some sort.

He gets a lot of attention, and a lot of exercise during the day. He can nap anytime he wants, which is usually mornings after his first walk. He’ll also nap in evenings after his tantrum has finished.

To answer your questions. He’s very particular about petting. He usually naps away from us. When he wants a cuddle he walks up to us and nuzzles our hands, or jumps up beside us and paws us. First thing in the morning when he comes out of his cage he lies down for a massage and stroke. He’s a lot better at relaxing these days, when he was a puppy he was always restless and couldn’t settle. We took him to the vet for X-rays to check he was OK and had no misalignment problems. He checked out fine, the vet said he was just anxious and needs more rest. So we put him in his cage at 9 pm with a kong and he stays in there until 9am with a short break for a wee at midnight before we go to sleep. He loves his cage and goes straight in. He sleeps most of the time in there or relaxes. Yes, he does tend to follow us around. He likes to be in whatever room we’re in. Even if we’re in the gym working out he’ll wander in with his chew and sit contentedly and watch us. He never runs off if we’re outside, even if the gates open. We have a big garden and if we’re working he’ll just sit and watch us. I think he’s quite insecure. If we’re in the fields playing behind our house and I walk towards the garden gate to go back in, he runs in like a shot before me. He doesn’t like to be left alone, and he’s come to rely on us for entertainment. He’s hopeless at entertaining himself. If he’s in the garden on his own, he’s immediately into mischief, like digging up the lawn. We have neighbours on one side and if we talk over the fence, he’ll dig up the lawn while we’re talking, after he’s had a cuddle from them of course. They love him.  He wants attention most of the time unless he knows we’re working on stuff and then he seems content to watch us. We really need to work on his independence. But because we’re at home all day, he’s sort of spoilt compared to most dogs. 

Here he is napping after. Lol.

 

 

 

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Thanks for the video and extra info. 

The barking directed towards you (and maybe somebody sitting next to you?) in that way looks like he's expecting a response or some type of interaction. If there are no noises around he's attending to, and triggering this, this type of barking can be seen in dogs who are in search of reassurance/ guidance/interaction and struggle with changes in their environment/idle times. 

So in these cases, we may need to take a multi-pronged approach, and also try various things and see what works best. These cases can sometimes be tricky; some dogs may just need a little tweaking with more exercise/activities, while others need considerably less. Balance is key, but getting there, may take some experimenting as each dog has different needs. 

So with the provision of exercise/activities there can be too main issues:

Too little exercise/mental stimulation. This doesn't sound like your case, but just pointing it out for readers. This is often the case of dogs left home alone for a good part of the day and then they are fed and owners watch TV without providing enough exercise/activities. However, it can occur as well when working at home where not much time can be dedicated to the dog. Maybe the dog is walked, but it's just a walk around the neighborhood, the dog just gets exercise and very little mental enrichment or the dog is just let out in the yard to rehearse problematic behaviors most of the day. A yard doesn't cut it for meeting a dog's needs for exercise and mental stimulation. 

Too much training/exercise/activities. I can see this as a possibility, since you are so committed. When we do too much, we risk over-compensating and the dog may get used to all the attention, that, the moment it's lacking the dog gets lost, and looks for something to do. Even distracting the dog can be perceived as a form of attention. These dogs may need to learn to cope with just doing nothing and enjoy downtime that doesn't involve direct interaction with us. 

Balance is therefore key and sometimes finding that right balance can require some experimenting to see what works best. For example you can try:

-Making some little tweaks to his routine so that puzzle toys are given during TV time and his nap shortly follows. 

-Providing activities that don't involve you directly. It may help to let your dog "find these remotely" rather than showing your dog that you are giving him something to do at the lightest sign of him getting bored/seeking interaction. For instance, you can take him out in the yard or let him explore a room he's not around much, while a helper prepare in advance a Muffin Tin game, stuffs a Kong or Kong Wobbler or hides kibble around the home/some of his favorite chews so that when you sit down to watch TV, he finds his own activities that don't personally involve you.  

-You can try "overlapping" so to prevent the barking. For example, if one of you is cooking, the other can take him on a sniff walk or ride in the car and then come back home when the whole dinner preparation is done. Or during TV time, one starts watching and the other takes Finn out and then returns and lets him find several things to do prepared in advance that not involve you (bubble making machine for dogs that emits bacon flavored bubbles, automatic treat dispenser set to toss a kibble at set intervals). 

-Barking can be reinforced if we provide any type of attention to a dog seeking interaction. That involves looking at the dog, talking to the dog, even scolding him or pushing him away. Even giving him something to do qualifies as attention. Inadvertent attention is one of the primary causes of attention-seeking barking. This can be worked on by becoming "professional ignorers", staring at a blank point, acting like a statue when the dog barks, but there are extinction bursts to be aware of where the behavior gets worse before getting better in hopes of getting attention. The behavior worsening is sign that ignoring is working. 

For sake of an example, imagine a mom who always gives in and buys candy for her toddler when she whines and cries for it upon visiting the grocery store. Then, out of the blue, one day the child's dentist notices the candy is ruining the child's teeth. So from the next day, no more candy.  At the store, the toddler therefore cries, and cries and cries in hopes of candy, and then eventually starts throwing a super big temper tantrum at the store (behavior getting worse), since the crying is no longer working as before.

What happens though if, after several days in a row, the mom is super determined to not give in? After the crying has gotten temporarily worse, it eventually extinguishes just like a fire that is deprived from oxygen. 

Moral of the story: if your dog barks for attention, food or for you to toss a ball and you decide to totally ignore your pup's attention-seeking/demand barking out of the blue,  expect the behavior to get worse before it gets better.  During the extinction burst your dog may bark louder and for longer or he may even try new behaviors in hopes of re-gaining attention or out of frustration such as pawing at you or chewing something nearby (remove expensive rugs). 

If you stick to the plan though, after such increase, you should see the behavior gradually declining and then eventually extinguishing (other than an occasional whine here and there due to another phenomenon known as "spontaneous recovery.)"

What happens though if during an extinction burst, you happen to inadvertently give any attention? This can create significant setbacks. The reason is because now, you will have reinforced persistence. Back to the toddler example, if mom decided to purchase the toddler some candy to just shut her up and avoid the momentary embarrassment, this would fuel the behavior even more than before, turning it into a bigger fire that is always more and more difficult to extinguish!  Next time, you can bet when the child doesn't get candy, she'll be turning into a scaled down version of the Incredible Hulk!

Now, if mom decided again to be more determined to not buy candy, she would likely have to go through more intense and sustained yelling and screaming behaviors because the toddler has learned that if she insists, and reaches mom's breaking point, she can finally get what she wants, but after that hurdle the behavior should eventually extinguish. 

I am not a big fan of ignoring as a "stand-alone approach," although it can and does work. The reason for this is that it can cause major frustration in some dogs (sometimes frustration may turn into aggression, so in dogs prone to this, it's important working with a behavior professional) and it also fail to tackle the underlying cause of "demand barking". So I usually suggest taking note of when the barking occurs and trying to take steps to prevent it from happening in the first place (antecedent control), while also taking measures to tackle any underlying anxiety/ unmet needs etc.  

So we need to consider whether his behavior is an underlying sign of stress/anxiety and that root cause needs tackled. Pay attention on whether he struggles with certain noises, sights etc. It sounds like he needs help to learn how to cope with idle times and not being involved in certain activities. Some dogs also have a deep fear or missing out (FOMO). We may need to take baby steps in teaching coping skills always taking measures to not push the dog over threshold/repeatedly rehearsing the problematic behavior. 

There are many calming aids nowadays on the market that can help too take the edge off. There are calming sprays, diffusers, supplements and even diets and probiotics that are crafted to help dogs cope. 

-Helping him relax during TV time through petting is another option, but *only in case* we are sure his evening barking is due to being cranky and tired (you mention he usually naps after his tantrum). The objective is making a new routine where the TV turns on and you sit on the floor or couch, call him to you (before he has a chance to bark) and ask him to sit and lie down (I like all dogs to learn to say "please" by sitting or lying down for petting so to not inadvertently  reward nudging, jumping up or pawing) and pet him/massage him in a soothing way in hopes of him relaxing enough to fall asleep.

However, a disclaimer is warranted here: this may or may not work. If he's too hyper he may try to nip or be rough in which case it won't work (we can lower these chances by draining some of that excess energy prior in low-impact ways discussed earlier).  On top of this, this option comes with some "side effects." You may be stuck with a dog who wants to be pet every evening this way. Einstein turned out being this way, but hubby has always loved to pet him for long while watching TV so this turned out being a win-win, although aging caused him to ask for less pats.

With my female, I pet her a bit and then gave her a "that's enough" cue because she could have gone all night long," pretending to fall asleep" and awakening if I stopped petting and then ask for more. So I just left it to a few pats, that's enough and then she would plop on her bed and lie down chewing her toy. 

Hubby instead has found the evening affection time with Einstein very relaxing. As a plus, research has found that when we pet our dogs, our cortisol levels drop and there's the whole oxytocin thing going on. so it became the routine. 

In the best case scenario, the dog relaxes and eventually falls asleep and you can return to sitting on the couch. The worst case scenario is that, he will not accept petting, or will  awaken when you stop petting and start demand barking to resume. In which case, a consequence is needed for the barking, and that may involve, rather than taking him into another room, you leaving the room until he is quiet and then return once quiet and rinse repeat until he gets the idea that barking makes his owner leave. 

However, when in doubt, it may be best to just use management, which involves also teaching him more how to chill. So rather than putting him in timeout when he barks while watching TV, he can be placed in his crate/exercise pen/ behind a baby gate with toys and chews *beforehand.* 

So these are just some options worthy of trying. 

[H MORRIS]

Thanks, some great suggestions there and we’ll experiment to see which ones can produce a calmer evening. We’ve got to break this cycle somehow. And between management and providing independent activities we’ll change things up in line with your suggestions to see what works. 
 

I’d be more than happy if he relaxed by us, and I’d be happy to stroke him for as long as it takes, but he seems unable to do so. He comes over regularly for cuddles and strokes, but can’t actually settle by us. If he goes tired he’ll wander off to another seat or on the floor to crash nearby. And as you say if the stroking goes on for more than a minute or two he gets over stimulated and starts mouthing. I wish there was some way to teach him to relax by us, we’d all benefit from this. What can we do to encourage it and why is he like this I wonder. Most of our friends who have dogs get fed up by their pestering to lay by or on them. 

 

[Adrienne Farricelli]

I’d be more than happy if he relaxed by us, and I’d be happy to stroke him for as long as it takes, but he seems unable to do so. He comes over regularly for cuddles and strokes, but can’t actually settle by us. If he goes tired he’ll wander off to another seat or on the floor to crash nearby. And as you say if the stroking goes on for more than a minute or two he gets over stimulated and starts mouthing. I wish there was some way to teach him to relax by us, we’d all benefit from this. What can we do to encourage it and why is he like this I wonder. Most of our friends who have dogs get fed up by their pestering to lay by or on them. 

If he likes to wander to a separate area for his sleep that's OK. It's always good to "let sleeping dogs lie" and respect their preferences. We want them to sleep undisturbed and get that nice, restorative REM sleep. It's a good sign when they take a deep sigh, lie on their sides and get that kind of sleep where they twitch and dream. 

 

From your description, he literally crashes, which likely suggests that he tries to stay awake until he just can't cope anymore, maybe with no little intermediate states in between. I have have boarded/trained dogs like this, some even almost feel asleep standing up, they were so resistant to falling asleep!

 

Why some dogs are like this can vary. As mentioned, some have fear of missing out, others may be anxious (like about their owners leaving while they're asleep or worried about things in their environment-like startling noises which prevent them from feeling relaxed) others can be workaholics that are addicted to doing things-they would just work until they drop, and can be genetically wired to be antsy and wound up. 

 

We can help them tolerate better touch with some handling exercises which aim to get dogs more comfortable being touched. These are best taught when puppies, but I have successfully helped hyper older dogs chill with touch through gradual exposures, creating positive associations with having body parts touched. As with the getting the pups used to being brushed, they can be taught to get used to our hands stroking them.

 

Warning: *I don't recommend doing these exercises alone if a dog is prone to aggression or has little bite inhibition. There are always risks in behavior modification and therefore it's best to exercise caution and work alongside a behavior professional for safety and correct implementation. It can e be easy to an untrained eye to miss precursor signs of a dog starting to get more and more overstimulated/frustrated/defensive.  A muzzle may be needed for additional safety, but always being attentive to not push dogs over their comfort levels. 

 

Here is a basic guide, but since this guide is more about prevention, and Finn sounds like he may have some background history of practicing overstimulated behaviors, you may encounter more challenges along the way: https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/exercises-to-teach-puppies-to-tolerate-touch/

 

With petting, we start with very slight touch while we simultaneously feed a treat, touch/treat, touch/treat, touch/treat. We do this with several body parts, (you may want to start with areas he tolerates more). Then, we raise criteria and start touching first and then feeding the treat (kept out of sight), touch then treat, touch then treat, touch then treat.

 

Keep the sessions short and sweet and look for a positive conditioned emotional response https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/conditioned-emotional-response-cer/ where your dog looks forward to your sessions. In other words, the dog starts looking forward to the touch because it has started to become associated with treats.

Afterward, touch may become gradually more pronounced as the exercise continues, touch-treat, touch-treat, touch-treat. Again, repeated several times in hopes of getting again a positive CER.

Afterward, duration may be added by touching for longer periods of time (instead of just a touch, a little stroke). Same exercise, stroke/treat, stroke, treat, stroke treat.

 If your dog ever shows signs of not being comfortable, it means you have progressed too fast. Take a few steps back in the process and use baby steps. For example, if your dog struggles with two strokes, go back to one stroke until he seems very comfortable with that, then try with a stroke and a quarter, rather than two, then a stroke and a half.

 

Here is a video on some work done with a nippy Setter who was hand shy and nippy when overstimulated: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsiNfp2cLzI

 

You may also find the "number 1 basic handling game" handy: https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/bite-inhibition-games/

 

More tips for dogs unable to relax:

 

-Reduce stress 

One may wonder, how can a dog be stressed if he's fed high quality food on a schedule, has access to ample toys and is pampered all day long? Anything can qualify as stress such a lack of sleep, noises, abrupt changes in the dog's routine, a new baby, a new pet, scary events, excess confinement, excess exercise, medical problems, barking at triggers in the yard all day long, too little stimulation, too much stimulation, being fed low quality foods, the use of harsh training methods, inconsistencies in rules/boundaries etc., can all put a toll on a dog's emotional stability and can lead to stress.

A stress reduction program can help. This may entail less intense exposures to stressors, desensitization, calming music, calming aids, enrichment etc. 

-Watch what you reinforce. We often may inadvertently give dogs attention when they are misbehaving and that reinforces hyper behavior. For example:

• Giving our dog attention when they jump on us (even negative attention may do to a bored, attention-motivated dog)
• Giving attention when they bark at us
• Feeding them when acting hyper
• Putting the leash on when they're acting wild
• Being dragged on the leash
• Letting them free to play at the dog park after dragging you there
• Letting them out the door when they're scratching at it
• Encouraging rough, out-of-control play (jazz up settle down/gives more structure and control https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/high-school/jazz-up-and-settle-down/
• Letting overactive kids fuel "hyper behaviors" through inappropriate play (screaming, running, chasing, hitting)

- Reinforce calm behaviors

You can take a handful of treats/kibble each day, keep them in your treat pouch and deliver them when you "capture" a calm behavior as it unfolds. Be careful for "behavior chains," in other words, aim to reinforce calm behaviors that aren't immediately preceded by hyper behaviors (for example, dog jumps and then sits). If you reinforce the sit right after the jump, you risk reinforcing the whole package, with the jump included too, so wait for your dog to be sitting for several seconds or to be safe, stick to reinforce behaviors that aren't preceded by undesirable, hyper behaviors (for example, praise and treat when your dog sits after calmly walking or after looking at you.  

-Use The Premack Principle 

 

Just as grandma says: "If you eat your broccoli, you can have your ice cream sundae." So how to apply it to your dog's training and exercise regimen? Here are some ideas:

• Ask your dog to sit before opening the door and letting your dog out in the yard
• Ask your dog to sit when you attach the leash
• Ask your dog to dog to sit for petting.
• Ask your dog to sit before putting the food bowl down. So if you are preparing his meal and he starts spinning in circles, stop preparing his meal; when he stops circling, resume. If when you walk with the bowl towards his feeding spot, he jumps up, turn around and take a step back. When he sits, walk and put the bowl down; if he attempts to jump as you are about to put the bowl down, lift it up. When he sits, put it down but be ready to lift it up if he gives signs of getting ready to jump up.

Here is more about the Premack Principle: https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/premack-principle/

-Stick to routines

Among humans, mentioning the word "routine" may evoke thoughts of dull, boring events. Instead, when it comes to dogs, routines may be perceived as a cherished blessing, especially when they come to predict safe and comforting events. Many dogs thrive with the predictability of routines.

While dogs can't tell time the way humans do, dogs have an internal biological clock that causes their emotions and instincts to kick in at certain times of the day.

-Create a zone that induces relaxation/sleep

You can help a moody, cranky dogs sleep by reducing stimulation so to help them settle down, relax and nap. You can do this by taking the following steps:

-Bring your dog to a quiet place where they usually sleep (like an exercise pen). Remember though that most dogs being very social, are always happiest being near you. Not necessarily stuck to your feet, but at least nearby where you are within sight. 
-Remove access to overly stimulating toys if they distract your dog. 
-Encourage calming activities by offering snuffle mats, Licki-mats, and food puzzles.
-Provide a long-lasting chew toy or edible chew to gnaw on top of a mat/ dog bed (these can act as pacifiers for some dogs).
-Act calm. This will help your dog calm down too.
-Close all curtains and blinds.
-Turn lights off (or place a blanket over the crate).

-Play calming music (like Through a Dog's Ear) so to cut down on any residual background noise. Invest in calming aids. 

I hope this helps Finn relax more.

Relaxation doesn't happen over night, rather it's a process that requires less intense exposures to triggers, more ability to control impulses, better predictable routines, and other measures. 

Keep us posted!

 

[H MORRIS]

Thanks a lot. More really good advice. Loved the handling video of the Setter. Finn was just like that as pup and is still very particular. We handle him every day, ears, mouth, paws etc and treat him. We can now inspect his ears and look in his mouth but its slow going. Yesterday I was stroking his legs and tummy when he rolled over on his back first thing in the morning and noticed a small sticker stuck to his fur. I stopped to pick it off and he immediately shot his head round and got my fingers in his teeth, to say stop that. He doesn't bite, but there's enough pressure to give me a small warning that he doesn't like it. Picking things out of his fur hasn't been in the training regime. Lol.

OK, in line with your advice we had no barking yesterday evening having switched things up. Firstly we gave him a lot more exercise. We had two long walks and several sessions playing frisbee and a long flirt pole session as an experiment. He was pretty tired by the late afternoon. Secondly we bought a few new chews from the pet store including a tough beef strip, a natural root, rice bones and a durable wish bone. After dinner, he came into the TV room where we'd hidden some treats around. He started foraging without our usual command 'find' and we left him to it. Then he walked over to us and I gave him the natural root. He loved it as he'd not had that before and he chewed it for about half an hour before flopping down and sleeping. Success. He might need more exercise, it's very hard to tire him out though! And like you say, it's a balancing act. Get him over tired and he may play up because of it. Anyway so far so good. Wonder how a dog like Finn got on in the old days of aversive dog training, with alpha rolls and choke chains. I guess they ended up shelters. 

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Glad to hear there has been improvement in the evening barking. Your experimenting seems to have yielded fast results! It's truly a balancing act, because if we get them too tired, they might get cranky, but it sounds like giving him something to chew has put him in the right mindset. If we keep it up, we may find the perfect concoction, although barking may occasionally pop up here and there, due to a phenomenon known as 'spontaneous recovery."  Ignoring these is important to prevent a comeback. 

In regards to the sticker in the fur, here's what I do. So, in Arizona, we have these wicked plants that form a sort of burr with sharp spikes. I literally hate them because they embed in fur, but not only, sometimes they also embed in between a dog's toes or directly in the paws (ouch!). As much as we have tried to get rid of the plants, the wind (in particular, dust devils which are like mini-tornados of sand) would transport some of these burrs in our land. 

This sometimes has caused me to be stuck in "sticky" situations, meaning I have to remove these embedded burrs in a dog's paw (which of course is painful as most dogs would lift their paw and stop walking upon detecting it) not knowing how the dog could react and what his /her bite inhibition is. Not to mention, several dogs dislike having their paws touched!

So I would always carry some low-sodium hot dogs and feed them with one hand, while the other quickly removed the burr.

If it wasn't easy to remove, I would make getting the hot dog piece a little challenging to remove from my hand/fingers as well (letting the dog nibble on it without releasing it completely or holding the hot dog piece in my hand like a Kong allowing the dog to try to remove it with his/her tongue) so that the dog concentrates on that, while I work my best in removing the burr. 

Einstein trying to remove a hot dog piece from my "hand-made" Kong.

I do use the same strategy when trying to brush out mats from long-haired dogs. Of course, life doesn't always allow advanced preparation, so one may stumbled on a day where we need to remove something very quickly, but are out of treats. But I think of this as an investment.

In other words, if the dog has learned that every time I must remove a burr (as with my Rottweilers over the years of dealing with these) he is fed something tasty, that day we are caught off guard, and have no treats on us, chances are good that the dog will comply and allow us, in anticipation of the treat. The dog will not get the treat in this case, but lots of pats/praise, so we have good chances that things will be still OK, because we have built a strong reinforcement history "in the piggy bank" to overcome this little hurdle.  

This has happened with my dogs. They learned to stop walking, raise their paw and look at me in anticipation of a double whammy of reinforcement: having the treat, and having the burr removed so to resume walking. If one day I had no treat, it was quick removal, pats and praise, no biggie. This was though the exception to the rule.  If I did this too often, most likely my dogs would start paying more attention to the burr removal and maybe perceive the whole situation as slightly aversive. Why take that risk?

And we must consider that any dog can bite when they feel pain/uncomfortable, no matter how trusted, so best to never take things for granted. If a dog is prone to biting, it's best conditioning to a muzzle to play it safe. So we need to factor in too intense pain or dogs who are sensitive/not comfortable being touched. Every dog may react differently. It's best to always tread with the upmost caution, as every dog is different. And behavior can never be said to be totally static, a dog  may act differently one day to another or from one situation and another.

One needs to also factor in how roughly dogs take treats, so I always aim to work firstly on teaching a dog  to take treats gently before going into full-mode training and just in case of some annoying burrs/mats. This is what I do:

:https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/train-dog-take-treats-gently/

In regards to how dogs may react to harsh training methods, we have some studies. Below is one of them.  Some dogs react with fear and others with aggression (defensive) so yes, like you said, that can lead to more troubles down the road that could end up with relinquishment to a shelter:  https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0168159108003717

I wish you continued progress with Finn. Keep up the great work! 

[H MORRIS]

Love the hand kong idea, and I've been using it to do things he doesn't like and it works. He rolled in some fox poo yesterday and it was on his neck. I got a cloth with some shampoo and water to wash it off, but he was in one of his jumping around moods not letting me get at it. So I had some pieces of chicken in the fridge and I put a piece in my kong hand instead of a hot dog. He kept licking it while I washed off the offending smell. Success. Thank you so much.

Finn takes treats really well, unless he's over threshold. In fact I can tell how aroused he is by the way he takes treats. I've been throwing them on the floor for when he sees triggers, in line with your suggestion and its less of a problem.

We have burrs in the UK but they're not the spikey kind. They get in his fur too, but are not painful. I can remove them by generally scratching him. He's so weird. If he thinks I'm scratching him as part of general petting, he closes his eyes and loves it, I can then work around the area and finally get my nail under the burr and remove it at the same time. But, if he sees me spotting a burr and I just go straight to it to remove it, he'll mouth and warn me. His mind set is bizarre. I'll try the Kong hand next time and see how it goes.