Still biting and jumping

[PENELOPE DILL]

Hi Adrienne:

Sorry to bother you again but Molly began jumping, clawing and biting me again right after I sent you the email that she stopped 😞

None of the training techniques I use with her seem to make any difference.  She is 7 months old now and almost 80 lbs.

I'm writing with a little more info in the hopes you might be able to understand what is going on with her and how to break this habit.

I feel as if she thinks I'm a dog and this is how she plays.  I've seen her with other dogs and she doesn't just run around with them, she spends a lot of time jumping on their heads and necks (no matter how big they are).  With me she will just begin biting me (not mouthing me) out of the blue and if I try to push her away, give verbal commands or get away from her she just escalates and gets more aggressive.  When she is doing something destructive and I try to stop her (telling her no, distracting her with a toy or gently trying to lead her away by the collar) she escalates and really goes at me.  This is not playing, it's "leave me alone or I'll make you leave me alone".  She tears my clothes when she claws and bites at me and doesn't typically draw blood anymore but I have a lot of bruises, that's how hard she bites.  Do you have any advice for me ?   

And I've tried to get her to nap but she won't - just gets agitated.  When she isn't in her large pen, she typically just constantly roams around, clawing and chewing on things constantly.  Rarely lies down anywhere.  I have been walking her 1 mile each day and we play ball in the backyard for 15-20 minutes each time, 4 -5 times each day.  So I feel as if I am giving her the exercise she needs.  And she has many toys that should keep her happy but she rarely plays by herself - she always needs me to be interacting.

Do you think she is a dog that has to have other dogs in the family to interact with ? 

This week I've gotten to where she spends more time in her pen to give me a break and I really don't want to have to do that.

Thanks so much for your help,  Penelope  

 

[JMFS]

I hear you on the pen part.  Esther still gets time outs because she goes that extra mile some days and I need to work to put food on the table.  Do you put anything interactive in the pen with her, aside from toys?  E.g., a Kong stuffed with moistened kibble or some such

She sounds like she's getting plenty of physical exercise, but perhaps needs more mental stimulation.  Is she particularly smart?  I find the smarter the dog, the tougher time I have.  You might replace half of the playing ball sessions with some training sessions to tire out her brain.  I have a plush toy that I stuff with smaller toys and Esther has to get them out.  I usually have to hold the bigger plush or she'll just run off with it and tear everything up, but after about 8 rounds she starts getting tired and will settle down for a bit.

Instead of distracting with a toy, what about tossing some kibble or a treat in the opposite direction so you can get whatever it is she was destroying?  Will she go for that?

Same could go with the biting - throw something away from you to get her attention.  Be it a toy she'll go for, or a treat.  Adrienne can advise on how to make that a tool rather than a game (we don't want Molly to start mauling you for treats!).

At 7 months she's getting a toe hold on adolescence.  For bigger dogs, it lasts longer (anecdotally).  It's generally from 6 - 18 months.  Esther was going strong until about 22 months.  The good news is - she's starting to calm down.  She's also our smartest dog - she's not Quite as brilliant as my dog, Momo, was, but is running a Very close second.  I'm here to tell you it Does pass.  When you need a minute, put her in that pen - it's best for you and her both.  🙂

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Hi Penelope, Please see my observations under your bolded quotes. 

Sorry to bother you again but Molly began jumping, clawing and biting me again right after I sent you the email that she stopped 😞None of the training techniques I use with her seem to make any difference.  She is 7 months old now and almost 80 lbs. I'm writing with a little more info in the hopes you might be able to understand what is going on with her and how to break this habit.

No bothering at all! I am glad that you are reaching out and sharing more details. I am looking back at our previous communications to see the flow pf things and the history you have shared. At 7 months, Molly is very young and has lots of energy, and as it was mentioned in your first post back when she was 6 months, you're right at peak adolescent stage where things are more challenging. 

My question at this point is: what did you do exactly that you were able to get her to stop clawing, biting and jumping albeit temporarily? What seemed to evoke a return of the behavior?  If you can think back in time and recall exactly what you did that worked, and then what caused a setback, that would be extra helpful so we can do some deeper troubleshooting. 

I feel as if she thinks I'm a dog and this is how she plays.  I've seen her with other dogs and she doesn't just run around with them, she spends a lot of time jumping on their heads and necks (no matter how big they are).  With me she will just begin biting me (not mouthing me) out of the blue and if I try to push her away,  give verbal commands or get away from her she just escalates and gets more aggressive. 

This sounds like rather typical rowdy play we see in adolescent dogs. I don't think she really thinks 'you are a dog," but simply that's her play style and we see that in German shepherds a lot. I outlined your words "If I try to push her away," because this is a main trigger that causes dogs to often escalate. Going back to your original post, please note that I recommended not to do this: 

"When training and doing behavior modification, it is best to avoid touching the dog as much as possible. When we use our hands for collar grabs, to push them away, or even to remove burrs from their fur, they come to form negative associations with our hands and this can trigger more nipping. Puppies need to learn from a young age that our hands are good, and that there's nothing to fear when we touch them, handle their paws etc. " 

I know how hard it may be to resist the temptation to push away or grab the collar or any other physical intervention, but it seems to cause more problems along the road, not only due to negative associations with our hands, but also because it may qualify as a form of engagement, and it can increase arousal levels (either due to play, arousal or defensiveness). 

When you give verbal "commands" be careful of your tone and body language. In modern dog training, we no longer use much the term commands, although it can be still used because that's what most of us are familiar with, but due to negative connotations with the militaristic-like training methods of the past, we now use the word "cue" more. *I may still use the term commands still here and there for easy comprehension, but the ultimate goal is to really teach dogs cues more than commands. 

"Cue" denotes more dogs being trained as willing participants. They don't "obey to please us," they are doing so by personal choice because it leads to positive consequence and not any form of threat or negative consequence. As willing participants, in private lessons, when safe and possible, I always aim to train dogs without a leash because the dog sticks nearby us by choice as a willing participant. 

So when we have a dog who is not responding to us, we need to carefully gauge what may be going on. Was the cue trained at a fluent enough level? Are there too much distractions going on? Are the treats high value enough to outcompete other stimuli? Is the dog in a too hyper aroused/anxious state? More about this here: https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/ignoring-commands/

If moving away triggers her more, we need to find some astute ways to prevent her from physically engaging with us and getting to that hyper-aroused, state. How about training her to not bite us by initially using a baby gate or a tall exercise pen? How about sticking nearby the door by the yard, so at the first sign of trouble, we can quickly enter and close the gate.

We don't want her to rehearse problematic behaviors, because the more she does, the more she'll want to engage that way. By removing ourselves, we prevent full-blown rehearsals. 

When she is doing something destructive and I try to stop her (telling her no, distracting her with a toy or gently trying to lead her away by the collar) she escalates and really goes at me.  This is not playing, it's "leave me alone or I'll make you leave me alone".  She tears my clothes when she claws and bites at me and doesn't typically draw blood anymore but I have a lot of bruises, that's how hard she bites.  Do you have any advice for me ?   

Have you worked on making collar grabs less aversive by creating positive associations with treats? There is really no "gently leading her away by the collar" if this leads her to a place where she doesn't like to be or there is a history of using even 'slightly aversive" techniques. It's unfortunate but even what we may consider "slightly aversive" such as grabbing by the collar for a timeout, pushing a dog away or giving a prong collar correction, can make dogs sensitive by the collar area. 

Any actions that aim at creating a "pack leader" relationship can do great damage that is difficult to overcome at times.  This is why we see more and more warnings by animal behavior professionals to avoid using any physical corrections and training methods that are based on even light forms of  intimidation. 

I am quoting you the results of an important survey conducted by board certified veterinary behaviorist Dr. Megan Herron. 

"Several confrontational methods such as “hit or kick dog for undesirable behavior” (43%), “growl at dog” (41%), “physically force the release of an item from a dog's mouth” (39%), “alpha roll” (31%), “stare at or stare [dog] down” (30%), “dominance down” (29%), and “grab dog by jowls and shake” (26%) elicited an aggressive response from at least a quarter of the dogs on which they were attempted. Dogs presenting for aggression to familiar people were more likely to respond aggressively to the confrontational techniques “alpha roll” and yelling “no” compared to dogs with other presenting complaints. * I highlighted here some actions to show how even some things that we may consider quite innocent (like saying no or staring at the dog) can lead to problems. *

"Owners also attempted to improve their dogs’ behavior by use of indirect confrontation. As with direct methods of confrontation, several indirectly confrontational methods elicited an aggressive response. Methods that elicited an aggressive response from at least a quarter of the dogs on which they were attempted included the ‘‘stare down’’ and growling at the dog

While the use of confrontational training methods to subdue hypothetical dominance is commonplace, the current scientific literature suggests, instead, that canine aggression and other behavior problems are not a result of dominant behavior or lack of the owner’s ‘‘alpha’’ status, but rather a result of fear (self-defense) or underlying anxiety problems, important for an understanding of the motivation and treatment of aggression (Guy et al., 2001a,b; Mertens, 2002; Luescher and Reisner, 2008).

Techniques such as forcing a dog down by the collar or by pushing on its neck and back—as, for example, in the ‘‘dominance down’’—are associated with increased physiological stress (Beerda et al., 1998). Frightened animals are often self-defensively aggressive; it would not be unexpected, then, that dogs respond aggressively to such provocative handling."

We already discussed the drawbacks or telling a dog no, in your previous post:

So I would suggest to stop ALL physical interventions and anything that can be potentially perceived even as slightly intimidating (this is not from your perspective but your dogs'). I would then take steps to prevent her from rehearsing any biting and jumping behaviors so to establish new routines to replace these undesirable behaviors. 

At this point, I would primarily focus on the following:

-Your own behaviors. After all,  this is what we can ultimately control the most. Basically, make it a point, that YOU will have to make her succeed using your force-free strategies using brains over body. This is not a battle: it is YOU guiding her into making good choices. 

Envision her succeeding, because YOU make it easy for her and extra worth it.  Provide her the smallest possible margin for error by using an errorless approach because from now on, you will be journaling her success and you want to see these jumping, biting and scratching episodes decrease over time. 

Make a commitment, that starting today, you will help ger make only GOOD CHOICES. Because the GOOD CHOICES are easy peasy (interactive toys are readily available and  access to things she should not have is blocked) and the rewards offered for good behaviors are far more reinforcing than jumping and biting on you. 

Think of this as a videogame, but not you against Molly, but rather, you HELPING Molly. The goal of the game is to make Molly less interested in jumping/biting. You are in control of helping her make good choices. Every time you have a setback, become proactive rather than reactive, in other words, don't get frustrated or feel resentful about getting Molly, rather think about the setback as you needing to be more careful next time, by making adjustments. 

So fill up a treat bag with your dog's portion of kibble mixed with some treats and NO MORE food bowl. Wear this treat bag ALL day. You should have at least 50 to maybe 100 pieces of kibble for each meal if she is fed twice a day. That's 100 to 200 opportunities for reinforcing good behaviors. 

You should know by now when she is about to go into nipping mode,  but you'll preempt that this time. You'll be dodging her bites as in a video game with your superb timing, by intervening *before* she gets to that point.

But because we want to get Molly to succeed, we'll help her further: we will be using our kibble to do a few sessions so that she gets a hang of this game. So with your treat bag full, any time Molly is nearby walking, ask her for a sit (she knows that well already, right?) and toss the treat at distance. Rinse and repeat several times. 

At some point, she should make the equation: "any time I approach and sit, my owner tosses me a kibble." Molly being super smart, she should grasp this quickly, and soon she'll be on the way of offering that sit voluntarily. Now, you'll be on your way of having her yo-yoing back and forth and the behavior should become more and more fluent. Note: You can also swap sits for other things such as hand targets, or other tricks you have taught her, but let's start with sits.

Next, start practicing this when she is likely to get a little aroused. Such as when greeting you in the morning, or in the evening after meals when dogs get hyper and then practice in the yard. Stay sill, don't move and ask for the sit and toss the treat. In the yard, you may have to use higher value treats. Turn this into a new routine and your goal is to set the stage for less nipping by tossing that kibble. Kibble is given for free anyway in the bowl, so why not let her work for it?

When she is doing something destructive and I try to stop her (telling her no, distracting her with a toy or gently trying to lead her away by the collar) she escalates and really goes at me.  This is not playing, it's "leave me alone or I'll make you leave me alone".  She tears my clothes when she claws and bites at me and doesn't typically draw blood anymore but I have a lot of bruises, that's how hard she bites.  Do you have any advice for me ?   

As part of the recipe of 'setting Molly for success" you'll have to also find ways to make her less prone to being destructive by keeping things out of reach. Block off areas she is prone to chewing, keep tempting items out of reach.

Then, practice the leave it cue, using the kibble/treat toss starting with low value items. She is approaching something tempting? Say leave it, and toss the kibble/treat the opposite way. Remember to use treats that surpass in value the item left. Don't forget to practice drop its as well. You want your dog to become a pro in leave its and drop its. These can save your dog's life one day. 

When you don't have time to play the kibble toss game, keep Molly in a quiet area where there's nothing of value to you that she can destroy. Remember, dogs aren't really in a quest to destroy stuff. They just think our things are the coolest toys ever. It's in their genes to want to disassemble things and shred things apart. We need to outsmart them by providing them with toys that meet their needs for "degutting stuff" by offering stuffed Kongs, Topplers, food puzzles etc. 

And I've tried to get her to nap but she won't - just gets agitated.  When she isn't in her large pen, she typically just constantly roams around, clawing and chewing on things constantly.  Rarely lies down anywhere. .  And she has many toys that should keep her happy but she rarely plays by herself - she always needs me to be interacting.

I find a lack of napping worrisome. She's not getting enough sleep which is restorative and key to good mental physical and mental wellbeing. I think she is super-super aroused and anxious and this is interfering with her ability to relax. You need to teach her that it feels good to be calm. Capture calm behaviors and reward them quietly. Like if she lies down nearby you, lower you hand and place a kibble in between her paws and continue doing so randomly. If she gets up, wait for her to lie down again and keep repeating so that she lies down for longer and longer. 

Make sure she has a quiet place to sleep. Perhaps she struggles in the pen because she has fear of missing out and wants to be aware of your whereabouts. Has the pen been used too much for timeouts? If so, she may not be comfortable there,  try to create a sleep-inducive environment by trying to not move around much if she's the type who will attend to the smallest movement/noises. With dogs like this, you need to pave the path for little naps and then you can gradually make these naps longer and longer. 

You may need to mention this to the vet, there are calming aids that he or she may suggest if she's unable to relax due to being too antsy. A vicious cycle then establishes where the less sleep she gets, the more antsy she becomes. I know of a dog like yours who was put on an anxiolytic and this helped her get the sleep she needed and after that, she calmed down as a result. Good behavior comes from good sleep. Lack of sleep leads to cranky, even neurotic behaviors. 

I have been walking her 1 mile each day and we play ball in the backyard for 15-20 minutes each time, 4 -5 times each day.  So I feel as if I am giving her the exercise she needs. 

Playing fetch 20 minutes a day for 4-5 times each day means she's potentially getting over an hour and a half of repetitive, adrenaline pumping activity. This repetitive jumping, running around, with the heart pumping fast, can cause a state of hyperarousal, and this soon becomes the norm. I am thinking she's an adrenaline junkie and needs to learn how to relax.

I would try to swap the fetch with more calming activities such as searching for her kibble, sniffing adventures, canine nosework, brain games, obedience training, play with other carefully screened dogs of similar energy levels preferably under guidance of a trainer. 

And she has many toys that should keep her happy but she rarely plays by herself - she always needs me to be interacting.

Well, with toys, if they're just stationary toys with no incentive they tend to get boring. It helps to rotate the toys so that she'll regain interest, but most toys are bleh for dogs unless they are somewhat interactive. So try to use more and more toys that are interactive such as treat balls and activities such as digging in sand boxes, searching stuff, and several brain games. 

Do you think she is a dog that has to have other dogs in the family to interact with ? This week I've gotten to where she spends more time in her pen to give me a break and I really don't want to have to do that. Thanks so much for your help,  Penelope  

Another dog may or may not help. If you end up with another easily aroused dog, you risk double the trouble. You'll have two dogs to train, two dogs to watch, two dogs to tell to not chew stuff, two dogs who react to triggers, two dogs to walk separately (unless you have a helper) two dogs roughhousing in the house with possibly damaging things. Worse comes to worse, two dogs who don't get along. 

On the other hand, this other dog may divert her attention from you to the other dog so that they'll play most of the time together, sometimes up to exhaustion where they'll flop and then sleep side-by-side. 

It's really hard to predict how things may turn out.

You can always try fostering another dog and see how it goes. If so, you could take Molly to the shelter and explain the situation and see if they have a dog that she can be matched up with based on her energy levels and play style.  Statistics tells us that a male may work better, versus same sex dogs, although there are always exceptions. 

 

[PENELOPE DILL]

Hi Adrienne:

Thank you so much for your input.  To answer some questions, I did nothing that I know of to stop the biting, etc.  One day she just didn't do it for 2 or 3 days, then it began again.  This has happened twice now.  But she has been back at it for the last week again.  And there doesn't have to be any interaction for her to do this.  I can be sitting at my computer, trying to get some work done, or standing in the kitchen doing nothing related to her and she just walks up and bites me.  I have resorted to pushing her away because she just keeps coming at me with no let up and I can't even stand up.  I feel as if I'm being attacked because she won't stop.   I understand that it makes it worse (my thinking is she thinks I'm engaging and playing with her) but I didn't know what else to do.

I know we are supposed to wean them off of the treats and she typically won't do anything without a treat but I have been trying to use positive touch and good girl alternatively with treats.  So maybe I need to continually use treats with her for now?

I spend so much time exercising her because I've been told repeatedly she has a lot of energy and needs to work it out.  I do training exercises with her and she has puzzles and chew toys that I spread cheese or peanut butter in, freeze them then put frozen sliced fruit, like a few slices of banana, inside too.  If it's ok not to run her around as much then I can scale back.  If it causes her to become more energetic then it's backfiring on me.   

Destructive behavior - I removed or blocked off as much as I could early on.  She will walk up to the couch and just start clawing or tearing at the fabric.  Or clawing the carpet or wood floor.  Or chewing on the cabinets.  Unless she's in her pen, I can't sit still for more than a few minutes without getting up to stop her.  She still won't stay out of the kitchen when I'm not in there (I can't block it off - I did put a table on it's side across the opening and she just kept shoving it out of the way) but she has begun to lie down just outside when I am in the kitchen for short periods of time so there is improvement there ( I reinforce with treats)  Nothing is really safe from her because she can put her paws on the counters, tables, washer/dryer etc and reach all the way to the back of whatever.

You are right in that she doesn't appear to want to miss out so she is very vigilant which prevents her from resting or sleeping during the day.  She is very comfortable in her pen so I don't think that is the problem.  But I will check with my vet about the anxiolytic.  You mentioned she might have anxiety which I agree with.  When she was spayed, the vet put her on Trazadone and Gabapentin to keep her calmer while she was wearing the hood and recovering. They kept her overnight and were worried because of her energy level. She managed to chew the first hood up within 5 days (and ate pieces of the plastic) and then she had the second hood destroyed within 2 days (both when I had gone to the store for a brief time) and passed more plastic for days.  She used her paws to fold the hood and chew it.  Fortunately she didn't bother her incision so no more hoods.  And the meds didn't even slow her down.  The vet was puzzled about that.

And I'm not thinking of getting another dog.  My youngest son and daughter-in-law have her sister, a 2 1/2 year old from a different litter but the same parents.   I was asking because she is very focused on their dog when they visit and seems calmer when they are here.  If she has to be rehomed, they will take her.  I was just wondering if there are dogs that are happier when there are other dogs to interact with, not just being with me.  And the fact that when around other dogs, she spends most of her time jumping on their heads and necks, is that normal ?  Will she grow out of that and learn to run around with them ?  I can't afford to take her to day care, even for a few hours, to be around other dogs more.

Thanks again for all of your help,  Penelope

[PENELOPE DILL]

P. S.

Even thought she has been such a challenge, it has been so encouraging for me to be able to communicate with you and hear the advice you provide.

Thanks again,  Penelope

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Hi Adrienne: Thank you so much for your input.  To answer some questions, I did nothing that I know of to stop the biting, etc.  One day she just didn't do it for 2 or 3 days, then it began again.  This has happened twice now.  But she has been back at it for the last week again. 

Hi Penelope, thank you for these extra details. I was wishing to see some pattern, although I must admit that hearing about this calming effect for 2-3 days may be somewhat promising considering that it shows us that she has the ability to exert some self control at the very least. There may be chances that as she matures, you may see more and more days like those open up, and the nipping dwindling as she learns new ways to interact and her attention shifts to more reinforcing activities. 

And there doesn't have to be any interaction for her to do this.  I can be sitting at my computer, trying to get some work done, or standing in the kitchen doing nothing related to her and she just walks up and bites me.  I have resorted to pushing her away because she just keeps coming at me with no let up and I can't even stand up.  I feel as if I'm being attacked because she won't stop.   I understand that it makes it worse (my thinking is she thinks I'm engaging and playing with her) but I didn't know what else to do.

You may be surprised, but actually this scenario is quite common and if you have followed several threads on the forums, you may have noticed how this issue actually pops up quite frequently. Many adolescent dogs struggle with us sitting down on the couch to watch TV, read a book or just work on the computer.  And you are correct, any form of interaction from you such as pushing her, looking her way or just talking to her, will make the behavior worse because it qualifies as "engagement" from her perspective. 

The good news is that predictability brings you power. In other words, if you know what actions/behaviors bring up a nipping episode, you have the power on controlling the behavior. So you know with almost certainly that she'll come nipping when you sit at the computer? Great! Pre-empt the behavior. In other words, prevent it from happening. You can do this in many ways:

1) Keep kibble in your pocket/treat bag (or in a bowl on the computer desk out of her reach) and as soon as she approaches, ask for a sit and toss the kibble. You can do this without even needing to get up. I know this can be annoying initially, but by doing this, you are sort of "rewiring her brain circuits" and establishing a new pattern. 

If she's too aroused to listen to your cue to "sit," just toss the kibble without her sitting. I know this may feel odd, because we're so used to using treats/kibble to reinforce behaviors, but in this case, we're ultimately reinforcing any "other behavior" that occurs other than the nipping. In behavior terms, this is known as "differential reinforcement of other behaviors DRO" and it's commonly used by many behavior professionals world wide. As she seems calmer, you can then progress to asking for a sit prior to tossing the treat. 

After some time, once we have established a new replacement behavior routine, with her choosing to sit on her own rather than nip, with us tossing the treats to reinforce that, we can start gradually making these sessions shorter and ending them with access to a stuffed Kong so she can focus on that and chill. 

2) Alternatively, you can just strategically coordinate your sitting at the desk with her chewing chill times. In other words, right before sitting at your desk, provide her with a frozen stuffed Kong for her to enjoy so that you can work on your computer undisturbed. Most dogs will choose working on the Kong over coming to nip us. 

3) A saying goes "desperate times, calls for desperate measures" so how about rather than placing her in the exercise pen when you need to work on your computer, erecting the play pen around your desk? Still, provide her with something to chew so that she doesn't start barking, but at least you can rest assured she can't come over to nip you. Alternatively, you can place something bulky between you and your dog so she can't reach you. 

4) Nipping when standing up: toss kibble when she shows self control and resists not jumping up/nipping. I had an English setter over not too long ago who would try to initiate engagement by nipping and struggled resisting hand movements, long hair dangling or necklaces.

I played the 'resist anything" game. In other words. I would start with training a solid sit/stay: 

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/obedience-101/stay/

Then, he would have to watch me move a hand slightly and resist the urge to bite, and I would click treat for keeping his place and resisting. Then, I would gradually increase criteria, by moving my hand more, click/treat for staying nicely put. Then I progressed to dangling my hair near his face, click/treat for staying nicely put, then dangling a necklace in his face, click/treat for staying nicely put, then dangling my sleeves in his face, click/treat for staying nicely put, then other impulse control exercises such as resisting running after me when lying on a mat: 

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/video-archive/train-dog-go-to-mat/

Important: use a muzzle if she bites hard just in case. A basket muzzle may be best for your case and you can still insert treats easily. Here's how to acclimate to a muzzle: https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/video-archive/train-your-dog-to-wear-a-muzzle/

Also, be quick to reward when she's nicely put, good timing helps her associate her sitting behavior with the reward, and prevents her from making a mistake.

If at anytime she happens to nip, consider lowering criteria as the task may be too challenging for her. Make the hand movement less tempting or do with from a farther distance. Also, make sure to not reward a sit taking place right after nipping, so to prevent a behavior chain.

 I know we are supposed to wean them off of the treats and she typically won't do anything without a treat but I have been trying to use positive touch and good girl alternatively with treats.  So maybe I need to continually use treats with her for now?

We shouldn't wean the dog totally off treats. We provide them intermittently. If we wean them off totally, behaviors we have taught risk extinguishing, -unless we provide some other type of reinforcement to maintain them. On top of this, we provide treats intermittently only once the behavior has become fluent. 

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/polishing-up-training/fading-continuous-rewards/

However, the process of weaning is mostly for when we're training and our dogs have proven to us the ability to respond to our cues at least 80 percent of the time. In your case, such as with the positive touch, we're doing more behavior modification (based on classical conditioning,) than training (which is based on operant conditioning), although training and behavior modification often overlap.

Without going too technical, I wouldn't be concerned about weaning at this point. We really want to work deeply on the issues and do everything in our power to help her make good decisions. If we would wean her off at this point, she would quickly revert back to her usual default ways of interacting which we are tying to solve. Nothing is more important at this point than stopping her bad habits immediately and not allowing her to rehearse them. 

What we want to avoid though is bribery. In other words, showing the treats *before* she performs the behavior.  I would keep some treats in your pocket/ closed fist so you can give them promptly.

I spend so much time exercising her because I've been told repeatedly she has a lot of energy and needs to work it out.  I do training exercises with her and she has puzzles and chew toys that I spread cheese or peanut butter in, freeze them then put frozen sliced fruit, like a few slices of banana, inside too.  If it's ok not to run her around as much then I can scale back.  If it causes her to become more energetic then it's backfiring on me.   

It's not easy to find the perfect balance so I hear you. What we know though lately is that too much of the adrenaline-pumping activities such as repeated fetch risk increasing arousal plus the dog's stamina, so that they require more and more exercise to wear them out. 

I am mostly concerned though about the lack of day sleep as this can turn out being a huge welfare issue. We know that dogs denied adequate levels of sleep often pay the consequences under the form of behavioral problems and impaired learning abilities. 

 I wouldn't be surprised if her lack of sleep is ultimately what is causing her behaviors from the get-go. Dogs of her age should sleep at least fourteen to sixteen or more hours per day. At a minimum, for the average middle-aged dog, 8 hours should be spent sleeping at night when everybody is asleep, and then an extra 4 to 8 hours should be spent snoozing during those down times at other times of the day. Your dog being young needs sleep on the higher end. 

She may therefore be too aroused/anxious to relax and get that so important REM sleep so reducing her stress would be paramount. When in this state, stress hormones keeps on circulating and as mentioned, the dog is then stuck in a vicious cycle. So I would aim to give her a little "cortisol vacation" and replace high arousing activities with activities that promote calmer states for a week or two, then see how it goes. As mentioned, these activities can help;

• Training which allows her to "think" like shaping
• Impulse control exercises https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/10-impulse-control-games-for-dogs/
• Treasure hunt games, food puzzles
• Licki-mats/snuffle mats
• Brain games
• Sniff walks on a long leash in quiet places 
• Use of exercise pens or other barriers (providing something to chew while there) to encourage relaxation
• Capturing and reinforcing calm behaviors
• Chewing activities (bully sticks)
• Calming aids/Prescription meds (check with your vet)
• Calm massages (use treats/kibble to reinforce calm and form positive associations with touch)
• Ditch the food bowl and offer kibble for engaging in calm/relaxed behaviors throughout the day
• Adhere to a routine (schedule activities and chill times/nap times and offer at the same times each day) 
• Some dogs need cues to know when they can/cannot interact with their owners. Like "let's play" when we interact and "all done" when we are done. The "all done" helps the dogs gain some closure. 
• Jazz up and settle can be a game that may help her find her 'off button' https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/high-school/jazz-up-and-settle-down/. When starting say "let's play" when done completely say "all done" as you toss a a few kibble across the room, put the chair and toy away and remove yourself. 

Now, I understand this may sound like a lot, especially initially as you'll have to offer quite a lineup of activities, one after another, to keep her busy in a non-hyper-aroused way using her brain, but as time goes by, you may notice that she'll start going from a dozen of these activities before starting to finally settle, to gradually less as her stress hormones lower and she learns how good it feels to relax. 

Destructive behavior - I removed or blocked off as much as I could early on.  She will walk up to the couch and just start clawing or tearing at the fabric.  Or clawing the carpet or wood floor.  Or chewing on the cabinets.  Unless she's in her pen, I can't sit still for more than a few minutes without getting up to stop her. 

Chewing and clawing are natural dog behaviors, we can't really stop those totally, but we can provide our dogs with legit outlets using sturdy  toys and activities. Provide plenty of those, especially food puzzles.

If she's climbing up to claw and tear at the fabric of your couch, you can try these mats: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B099WHTS48/

Provide her with a Kuranda-style dog bed:

https://www.amazon.com/Elevated-Breathable-Washable-Textilene-Portable/dp/B09NSLVS5K

If you have a safely fenced yard, provide her with a digging pit using some sand and bury her toys under to find. This game can keep her happy too: https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/elementary/the-ball-pit-game/

And of course, the leave it cue can help prevent her from rehearsing problematic behaviors. 

For chewing on cabinets, a taste deterrent like Bitter Apple Spray may work in some cases, but be warned that some dogs may actually care less about the taste and some like to too!

She still won't stay out of the kitchen when I'm not in there (I can't block it off - I did put a table on it's side across the opening and she just kept shoving it out of the way) but she has begun to lie down just outside when I am in the kitchen for short periods of time so there is improvement there ( I reinforce with treats)  Nothing is really safe from her because she can put her paws on the counters, tables, washer/dryer etc and reach all the way to the back of whatever.

Great to hear some improvement! Keep reinforcing her for not going past the boundary.  Do the same with tables, washer and dryer. Never let her find anything appealing/interesting on top of these and reinforce for resisting the temptation to jump up. 

You are right in that she doesn't appear to want to miss out so she is very vigilant which prevents her from resting or sleeping during the day.  She is very comfortable in her pen so I don't think that is the problem.  But I will check with my vet about the anxiolytic.  You mentioned she might have anxiety which I agree with.  When she was spayed, the vet put her on Trazadone and Gabapentin to keep her calmer while she was wearing the hood and recovering. They kept her overnight and were worried because of her energy level. She managed to chew the first hood up within 5 days (and ate pieces of the plastic) and then she had the second hood destroyed within 2 days (both when I had gone to the store for a brief time) and passed more plastic for days.  She used her paws to fold the hood and chew it.  Fortunately she didn't bother her incision so no more hoods.  And the meds didn't even slow her down.  The vet was puzzled about that.

Yes, great idea to check with your vet. Mention her behaviors, her lack of sleep and they can help sort whether there may be anything medically going on and then may suggest whether some meds can help. Trazadone is a situational medication, and is used more for short-term anxiety management. There are several other med choices that can be prescribed at the vet's/vet behaviorists' discretion. Of course, meds don't work on their own, they should be ideally accompanied by behavior modification ideally under guidance of a veterinary behaviorist. 

There are also new exciting products that are not meds that can help too. For instance, there are special prescription dog foods and probiotics that seem to help dogs relax. Then there are calming supplements (with L-theanine, L-tryptophan, Valerian Root, hemp etc), calming aids (like pheromone-based DAP collars, DAP Diffusers etc.) 

And I'm not thinking of getting another dog.  My youngest son and daughter-in-law have her sister, a 2 1/2 year old from a different litter but the same parents.   I was asking because she is very focused on their dog when they visit and seems calmer when they are here.  If she has to be rehomed, they will take her.  I was just wondering if there are dogs that are happier when there are other dogs to interact with, not just being with me.  And the fact that when around other dogs, she spends most of her time jumping on their heads and necks, is that normal ?  Will she grow out of that and learn to run around with them ?  I can't afford to take her to day care, even for a few hours, to be around other dogs more. Thanks again for all of your help,  Penelope

Gotcha! Sorry, I misunderstood. I wouldn't call jumping on other dogs' heads and necks abnormal, just rowdy adolescent dog play. My Rotties have always played with each other by neck biting. They were though respectful with dogs they didn't know and self-handicapped with the smaller ones.

I would watch how the other dogs react to her playstyle. If you remove them from play, do they seem eager to go back to playing with her? If yes, then most likely they were having a good time 🙂 If they are walking away, trying to avoid, hiding and don't go back and actually seem to feel relief, then it was likely too much for them. Some dogs may be accepting of this playstyle.

Some carefully screened adult dogs can teach them that jumping in their face is rude using just a deep growl/snark, but the wrong type of dog may even react aggressively-so great care is needed. 

Many dogs are super happy to play with other dogs, but things may change once they reach social maturity, then, they become more aloof and some even may no longer tolerate certain types of interactions with dogs. 

P. S.

Even thought she has been such a challenge, it has been so encouraging for me to be able to communicate with you and hear the advice you provide. Thanks again,  Penelope

It's my pleasure, I know how frustrating it can be living with an adolescent dog who needs so much guidance. I am always here if you need support or want to do troubleshooting.