FrederykBlot

Hello Thanks for the article, really helpful In the end it says to avoid removing things from pup by force, but even when walking with treats, the highest value we have does not compete with used tissue, or used Covid masks (people are pigs) For me, in that case, it's a matter of safety... Is there a way to limit the impact of those forced removal ? He's definitely turning the head when he senses I will go for it, but if he doesn't take the treat, I'm not sure I want to leave him chewing on a used Covid mask... (we train Leave It, which is OK at home with a kibble, but way more difficult outside with a new thing he never saw before)

Got a bit over confident here During day, I tried with another chew and pup managed to stay almost 45 min in the pen Chew was buffalo ear, please let me know if you think they aren't safe I thought I could retry the morning coffee with a 10 min edible chew When I finished my coffee, he was whining and crying, and the chew was not even half finished I really thought there would be enough improvement, but the morning clinginess seems to be higher than expected Maybe for the morning coffee I should try the chew with me in sight, and stick for the playpen only in less clingy times of day Little question here : is there any downsides to give edible chew regularly to a pup ? I mean, for us, it's like a super joker. When he get one, he works on it depending on the time of the chew, and usually feels more calm afterward I don't want to abuse it, and give him one each awake session, because I'm afraid it can lose value, or create dependancy or stuff like that But with the Kong, he wants an easy satisfaction : if it's too much work, he get bored easily, so unless we find a recipe that works, its not much of an option Indeed the calorie intake is something to take account, but apart from, Should I be conservative with the edible chews, or can I indulge a bit more, as it's exactly what they are designed for ?

Management really helped I walked with a rubber chicken in the pocket when I went to get the poop in the yard this morning, and when the little hunter came to his prey (me) he was presented the rubber chicken and was ok with that (I guess it was still an interaction with me, even with a lesser value toy than my clothes) Yay ! celebrating small victory ! \o/ On the other hand, I came accross also using bite inhibition scream / yelp for the clothes, the rationale being that the pup does not need to know the difference between skin and clothes, as they're both off limits of strong bite and tugging With skin, I understood the biting should be ok with a controlled strength, as it is necessary for them to undertand how much is too much, and avoiding any biting at all will prevent them to have good control about their strength Is this relevant ? can this be given a try during an "off guard moment" ? (I'll try my best on management for now on, but I'm realist in the fact that there will be one time I'll be caught off guard again)

Hello I'm reposting back on this thread because I've spoken about this topic here before : it is about getting on my clothes We definitely have progress here : - I try my best to avoid too much fetch or too much tug, so I do limit a bit the over excitment that would appear from that - when a bit above threshold, treasure hunt helps him cool down a bit while having mental stimulation - we started the ball pit game... He goes with the paw instead of grabbing with the mouth... But still works to get the treat right 😂 - we rotates toys. New isn't always best, so this is an area of expérimentation... But it's better than when it was always the same toy With him getting stimulation while being under threshold, we saw improvements But (and a big but), there still have some point of out of the blue attack, usually targetting my sleeves. For example, he'd seem calm at first, I go get the last poop in the yard, and booom, few seconds later, I have a pup tugging of my sleeves with all I have in the hand is a bag of poop... Several questions here : - when tugging of my clothes he sometimes growls. Should this be a concern ? For me it's not, as I read they build confidence like this, they act all fierce and mighty, but this is still play. A growling in a fear context would be problematic, but in a play context it's just him being a "big guy wannabe" - only avoidance méthod is walking with a high value toy and redirecting I guess ? - am not sure at all about the lamppost method here. I'm sure I can endure even if he touches the skin, but with him nipping and tugging, I'll have Swiss cheese instead of a sweatshirt... Or maybe the lamppost is the way to go, and I should just get a cheap sweatshirt when with him, and sacrifice it for the greater good until the behavior is over ? - I tried the "getting away from the scène", but with his tugging, he has a good grasp, and I end up tracting him. Also, when leaving, it excites him a little more until I pass the door, as I would walk away and he would go on the feet then, or even try jumping during my walk and I wonder if that do not reinforce... For me that's his worst problem, as it appears unexpectedly, when I off guard, and I usually feel lost at the moment, which cause huge amount of frustration on my side, not mentioning me being pissed with the increasing number of holes in my sweatshirts... Thanks in advance for the help

Had my vet center on phone, he said that if he's eating from the Kong it's ok, and it's really more a value thing than a real health issue If it had really been rotten, he wouldn't have taken it even from a Kong (She may even have a little laugh saying "ohhh that's cute, he's worrying about something so insignificant) 😂😂 Please anyone let me know if his answer was over safe and over casual while there can be a real issue

We've made this : little cooking container with fresh cooked chicken and freshly cut apple pièces, both really high value to him, and we toss in the kibbles he let down at meal time Seems to do the job not that bad like this : the flavored kibbles would be little less value but still makes him wanna try

I'm following this thread for info on resource guarding, but just wanted to say your pup is lovely !

Hello As mentionned on the other thread on kibbles, Loki does not take them anymore from the bowl. I'm a bit concerned about oxydation as it's open since a month. Still it takes from a Kong or treasure hunt. Thing is I find myself only training with high value treats, or kibbles I put in the same container to take the smell. Is it ok ? Or too much high value will lessen the training efficiency On walk he get one per good behavior, at home I try sequence to give him one Thank you

Perhaps you're right : he would try always to eat horse poop, or worms, or slugs during walks... So maybe kibbles open past one month isn't that big of a deal I was a bit afraid in the sense that he never had a problem with his kibble before But also heard that the kibbles refusal is a thing. As you said, eating the same thing over and over again each meal can be not very enticing at some point Dont want to waste food, but not at the expanse of my buddy's health

If that may help, I had the same particular issue with the garden couch, and it happened usually when we tied in the yard while doing stuff So we never caught him in the act Each time we saw him on the couch, I got a high value treat, did an "off" cue as Adrienne suggested. I also had a "sit" and "look at me" because we spoke about behavior chain at the time and I didn't want that "couch + off" become a whole thing Be prepared to do it a certain number of time. At first I started wondering whats the point as he was always on the couch when we hadn't an eye on him... Then it becomes less, and now, he would do it once in a while, usually when he's in an over excited, naughty mood I hope this could help, it is certainly not spot on and maybe not the way for your dog, but perhaps it can be useful

Thanks for the good advice. He's fed from a bowl, but do not take them in it anymore. We manages to make him one full meal, but it was from a Kong in 2 settings (early awake session + middle session, that make around one hour between), so maybe the value has something to do with it. But even if he takes from the Kong, I don't really want to feed him rotten kibbles, or kibbles past the oxydation / conservation threshold I reduce the size also. I was on the upper range on what's written on the package, so perhaps he was feeling full, but I'm not sure about that because it happens also on morning. I'd really wouldn't want to throw away 9 kgs of kibbles... And I'm afraid that compromising, like adding wet food and "enhancers", would just invite him to be more picky as something better is coming after initial refusal

I couldn't édit my last message, so I reply on it, but can heat had to do with it ? We're in Europe and the hot days are starting to come The last days were : normal morning session with big nap until end of morning, then almost nothing the whole noon and afternoon... Not much up to anything, not much tug, not much obedience... And since sunset, the day started : much energy, big fetch session... I was wondering if heat can cause lost appetite, because us humans also eat less when it's hot, and maybe it's eating less because he has less energy in overall during the day Thanks

Hello I'm upping this subject because we had a kibble related issue lately : M. Loki decided that kibbles do not seem to be good enough anymore. We may have made a mistake though : there have been a discount sale on his brand and we purchased a 12 kgs package. Given he takes around 160 grs per day, it should last about 3 months. It has been less than a month now, and while there was absolutely no issue before, he skipped the meal of yesterday evening and this morning. At noon, he finally finished the meal of yesterday. He also does not take them anymore when we "capture" good behavior, like default sit or relaxed lying So I guess it's supposed to be a rebellion phase against the kibble, and if so, we should stick to giving him his meals, and we will it when he'll be hungry. And we should not indulge him to be picky, snobby But we also read that kibbles oxydes. When buying the big package, we didn't know about that, and it is open since almost a month, and I'm afraid it may be too late... We close the bag with a cooking clamp, but I guess once it's open, oxydation will come. What do you think ? Is it him just having a phase and we should not indulge ? Or it can be a real problem with the kibble and we should go now with smaller packages that would last only a few weeks ? (In that case those 12 kgs packages are a total rip-off for puppies) Thank you

Hello I'm allowing myself to reply on this thread as I have questions following resource guarding after some of my reaction It has been established in one of my thread that it's usually not a good idea to take back an edible chew to keep it for later, as it can induce resource guarding and distrust, as I become the bad guy that remove good things. So I guess it's all about timing and the good chew right ? If I want to walk him in one hour because I've got to go in 2 hours, it's better to give a less durable chew and fill the time otherwise instead of giving a big one and taking it back for the walk ? (I ask because we had the case : pup was on a chew, my wife finished work, we wanted to walk him, and exercise him before confining him a bit, but didn't know what / how to do) I was wondering also if a last minute dodge during fetch is some kind of resource guarding or it's just a badly known fetch ? When excited enough, pup would tug the toy, sit, wait, I throw, he goes, start to come back to me, then turn around in the middle and goes lie down in a corner of the yard with the toy. I find it quite funny, and I usually make a little fun of pup ("loool Loki you're not that smart actually, you're supposed to get it back to me...") So, should it be a concern I should try to correct ? If so, how ? Thank you for the help

Understood But I have sensed something was wrong. He was relunctant to give it back, and when I got it, he seemed a bit stunned, or lost, and I doubt about what I did quite fast, as it didn't seem to finish as a fully positive experience I won't do the mistake again. I guess we have to learn at some point. I now know he can stay with an good edible chew around 30 min without thinking about us, and at least thats a good indicator. Yeah I saw the post on resource guarding and hesitated reacting in it, but I thought it would have been redundant. Thanks again for your answer

8am... I'm dreaming of it 🙂 Good to know that early + mid morning crash is a fairly common thing. Also good to know than crating for naps is ok, even if it's long naps. It's really for night, naps, and only sleep. We have this little ritual after the walk : we put him in the crate (he does not go by himself for now), close it, he usually lies directly on the bed as he's worn off after the walk usually, then we close the curtain and say "Bonne sieste Loki" ("good nap" in French) or "Bonne nuit Loki" (good night) for bedtime. He whines a few seconds just like saying "you know i would prefer to be with you right" but would settle in few minutes tops. Thank you again. I find one of the major thing that make your answers so precious to me and my wife (I mean besides the quality content) is that it balance what is out there, with real life experience, and real life expectancies. It helps welcoming acceptance, and kill the perfectionism that leads to anxiety. Thanks to you I'm enjoying more and more my little buddy instead of focusing of "doing what is supposed to be right"

Little advance on this topic. We tried a much higher value : a beef knee chew He looooooved it. He spent around 30 min in the playpen, closed, just working on the knee. No whining, no trying to get to us. 30 min around, I went back, open the door, and got the knee back. I did that because I've seen such high value treats are good to be available only when alone in playpen so the association is good like "YAAAYY I ll be alone in the pen, so I can get the super knee !!". Like some articles that says to remove the Kong once he's out Poor guy was sooooo disappointed... He just wanders around in the pen, sniffing here and there to see if another super treat was coming again I feel like the bad guy. He wasn't much up to do anything after that... I tried to initiate some tug, and some obedience, and he was like "meh... whatever, the world is sooo crual" Is it still a way to go ? He is surprised because it's the first time, but he'll learn that the knee is coming back, and with alone time in pen ? Today's 30 min was a test. We didn't expect it to be so efficient. Maybe I try that more regularly for my morning coffee ? Like 10 mins every morning ? To get him to "you get it when you're alone, I get it back when you're not meanwhile you can enjoy as much as you want"

Thanks for the answer, that helped. I may be thinking also, maybe when waking up at 5-6am, perhaps the night is not totally finished. He got to potty right out of the crate. One time I tried to crate him back just after, but it was major tantrum, so I concluded his level of energy said "I don't think so, I'm fully woken up" , and then we have a full morning session (breakfast+ physical+mental+obedience+walk spanned on 2 hours total). The nap then is usually big and I start to think it can be an extension of the night. Yesterday, he did 5:30am to 7:30 with full morning session. Nap in the crate until 9:00, imho interrupted by a potty. We went on a new session. This one was a bit longer, but I guess a little less filled as I also had to work at some point. Nap was from 11:30 to 16:15... I started to worry but followed your advice and let him sleep. While awake, no worrying sign. Was playful and bitey as always 😂. I would thought the following session would have been intense after such a long nap, but after physical ans little obedience, he got an edible chew and actually settle at our feet. That kinda confirmed me you were spot on, and he really has a big need of sleep, even if he's always trying to prove the contrary. Little question : as I explained in our schedule we enforce naps in crate, otherwise he would wanders around, doing everything he's not supposed to, while his body language screams "I m soooo tired..." Is it ok about crating time ? I read that a puppy shouldn't be crated too long (like one hour per month of age+ 1) but for me, it was for "awake crating". Even if I cannot be sure he's asleep when he's in, crate is the place to sleep, no to be in when we need him confined. We have the pen for that and currently training him about that. Thank for the help

I'm sorry, this one is maybe me being over anxious, or paranoid, but the schedule today was nighttime 22pm => 6am 6am => 8am was the normal schedule : potty + little alone time outside in the yard. Then breakfast, then some physical games in the yard, little mental game to cool him down (target + treasure hunt), and finally walk from 7:30am to 8:00am (was in the crate at 8:00, 8am was not just the return of the walk) He slept until 12:30 I'm feeling a bit bad because I'm not sure if a 4h30 nap is ok or not. He woke up in the crate (I have monitoring camera) when I got downstairs to cook for lunch, but if I didn't, he may have gone for even longer I'm quite sure. After waking up, he didn't feel lethargic or anything : we played (physical and mental), made some playpen training (gave him a chicken leg inside and went in and out) I know you said "if it's not broken, why fix it" But everything I read about puppies nap are from 30 min to 2h... I'm even starting to wonder if he's not depressing in the crate (I may make him think as a human here) Also if our awake schedule is too much... On the other end, I see no worrying elements during the awake part... not much zoomies, or crankiness, quite energetic, not lethargic at all... I know it feels like I'm worrying about nothing, but is it normal for a 3+1/2 yo pup to make a few big +4hours naps instead of several 1-2 hours ? Should I reduce the awake part to adjust ? Or just stick to my schedule as it seems to work, and just leave him alone sleeping, as it's all normal even if naps are over 4 hours, and work on myself instead :)

Thanks for the explanation, it's very clear. I'm gonna be a bit of the devil's advocate there, despite I try some "antecedent control" when he was rushing on my leg and that worked kinda good (only with high value treats though), but I'm wondering how can he learn then that the behavior he wanted to do is a bad behavior that need correction ? I mean, if we "intercept" any humping / biting and go to a target / sit beforehand, he wouldn't know that we're not ok with humping / other bad behavior, isn't it ? While as you mentioned just before in the quote before, the sit and the reward associated would outweight the humping behavior With antecedent control, aren't the bad behavior still inside, just waiting to catch us off-guard when we miss the anticipation (I'm not trying to contest, or demean this, I'm just putting myself in the "critics" position to have better understanding of how it works, to get the best out of it)

I'm interested about the "behavior chain" thing, it seems to make a lot of sense, because I may have notice that doing the lamppost on humping, then rewarding after he goes "sit" seemed to make him hump like 2 or 3 strokes (while it was more like 7-8 before), and then sit to get the reward. The decrease of strokes is the sign that the lamppost method works, or a sign that he's doing behavior chain with reduced time on the first part ? I'm actually wondering if it is something frequent. For example, lately he managed to get on the garden couch, usually when he's tied in the yard and me not looking. When I see that, I order / lure into "descends / pattes au sol" (we're French) which are "Get down / legs on the ground", and rewarding when he's down. Is it the correct way or am I inviting him to get on the couch, then get down to get a reward ? Maybe I should add a "sit + stay" ? Same for every kind of redirection : if he does to biting my ankle, or clothes, I get a high value treat, goes for sit+stay or leave it + sit + stay, and reward. Will he dismiss the biting part ? I also try redirection using "target" sometimes. If I have treat on me and I sense beforehand he's going for the leg, ankle and clothes, I try quickly a sit+stay (for impulse control) but if I'm not quick enough, is it still the way to go ? I must be wrong, but the concept of "behavior chain" makes it look like every redirection can be an addition of a bad behavior, instead of a replacement Thank you for the explanation

Hi, I'll already put some thoughts about this in another thread not specifically related to that, but I prefer put in another thread one, so the playpen related stuff is not lost in the middle of a topic that is not about that : I'm wondering about playpen, and playpen training My pup Loki usually goes in crate for naps and bedtime. He has no toys in, and get there usually after walk, which finishes his awake session. Crate training and this schedule seems to work fine, as he usually don't cry much in it, except for the first 2 minutes of attention seeking, but usually fell asleep quite fast in it. We got a X-pen lately and for me it's supposed to serve another purpose : letting him alone while I do other stuff (house stuff, work stuff...) with him being awake or not, I don't really care. It's just that if he's loose around the house, he'll go on anything he's not supposed to. About the setup : the X-Pen is link to his bed in crate, and contains a towel on which he loves to lie down, and some of the safe stuff he likes : a rubber chicken, a cow hoove, a rubber ball... I'd like to know about playpen training. Usually crate training is a subject with many discussions on it, but playpen is not as well documented. First we tried to do as crate training : toss food and high value treats when he doesn't see, so once he get in, he sees some good stuff in there, and think of it as something that spawns good stuff Then aother thing we did was to put him with a chew bone, or lick mat, close the door, and go in and out of the room for reduced periods of time, like 30 secs, 1 min, praise him when we come back, then go again, and repeat. This part is the easy one... he doesn't miss us much here Then the morning, I fill a Kong with kibble, and go just to get my morning coffee... He goes one minute on the Kong, and then 4 minutes of whining / cry. Of course, I do not open while he's crying, I walk around outside the room and wait a quiet moment, then I enter and free him So I'm wondering if I'm too greedy... 5 min to take a coffee does not seems much to me as the first "alone time" Should I try something perhaps more enticing than a kibble-filled kong ? I have chicken leg that he loves for chewing??? Should I try my coffee with this, as it's perhaps higher value ? or 5 min is a minimum, and he will have to deal with it, and so am I ? There will be whining, an extinction burst, but then it will get better. Thanks in advance for the help

I got this shot that I liked :) "I'm Loki, I'm so cute and fluffy"

I feel you. Internet and media are great for information and skill learning but I found the hard way that : - you can read so many things, all claiming this is good, and this is bad, and discerning the reality in all of that can be difficult and can create much self questioning - what is shown is usually the best, in the best of world : everyone is happy, puppies are lovely, they all seems to have a perfect solution to a specific problem.. even with difficult dogs, it's always shown as they can "correct" them quick, while in reality, there are always some struggles... but struggles isn't something anyone want to share on Facebook or Instagram, or YouTube Once you get to the point that you accept that you just doing the best you can, with the skills you acquire and the love you have, while accepting making errors, it all become more bearable

Hello, I putting back an old thread because I just arrived in this community, and this puppy blues thing got me right in the face, full speed ! We have our little Loki (seeable in the Canine picture thread) since a bit less than 3 weeks, and I must confess, it had been the hardest weeks of my life. I had a family dog while young, raised by my parents as I was too young, so I always wanted to live with dogs. But raising a puppy on your own is another story. Sooooo much thing are unexpected, even when you spent the whole month before watching every YouTube video on Canine education. They tell you to wake at night for potty training, but they don't tell you that the sleep deprivation will get the best of you at the end of the day They tell you not to go to a whining / yelping puppy in their crate, but at the time you can't feel how hard it would be to hear your puppy cry in distress during never-ending minutes They tell you to redirect the biting and nipping, but they won't tell there will be time you won't have treats available, or he wouldn't get interested in the toy First week was bearable because at first he was so shy and not familiar with the environment that he was discreet. Then confidence comes, and the true puppy life is starting. And the second week was unbearable to me. We crate train quick but didn't sleep in our room at the beginning to be nearer to him. I had much sleep deprivation because of potty training. I don't go to sleep at the same time as my wife because we decided I would do the night potty, and morning session, and she will do the bedtime Happens the day I didn't know about over stimulation. He was already cranky, and bity... And I tried to exercise him more, and tried some training that didn't do, while he was just trying to nip my hand, my foot, my sweat, and everything that wasn't his toys... Just felt so lost, inable to do a thing, and my wife came and I was like "please switch with me, I can't take it anymore". I fled the scene, just for her to send a Whatsapp message less than 5 min later "I just sat at my desk to check my mails, and he fell asleep at my chair" Reading this, I just burst into tears like a toddler, panting, during almost 10 mins with thoughts like "what did I do ?" , "I'm not ready for that", "this was a mistake" And disregarding any sexism that can exists, I did that while being a 37 yo man, who made martial arts and competitive baseball... KO'd by a 5 kgs puppy Then you learn, and adapt. You learn that overstimulation is a thing, and you learn that enforced nap in crate is way to go about that. First time he would whine, cry, yelp, for almost 10 min. Then the next day you watch for over stimulation signs... and he whines only 5 min And then you can sleep back into your own bedroom because bedtime went smooth enough And then you get a 10pm to 5am night New challenges always come, but little victories also come. And the worst of puppy blues passes. For anxious parent like me, I don't expect a total ease-of-mind anytime soon, but the days get better and better, specially with good guidance that I find here This message is just me sharing, because I guess I needed to, and wanted to... And just say that puppy blues is a real thing, but puppy blues pass, even when you hit a rock bottom point that made you feel it wouldn't.