Leash Reactivity

[DIPANNITA DAS]

Hello Adrienne

my GSD (male) is a big boy bog now. He is one years old (unfixed, I plan to neuter him at around 2 years of age).

issue description:- I find him difficult giving a walk because he tends to bark aggressively at other dogs even if they are on the other side of the road. I am using prong collar but that’s not improving the behaviour. It has given me some control over him but how can I make him act calm (or ignore) in presence of other dogs. I used to take him to dog parks earlier (haven’t done in a month now after I read somewhere that dogs parks can give your dog disease, but that’s a different topic for a later time). Leash free he plays fine with other dogs of every size in the dog park but with a “leash on” and walking him in my neighbourhood I literally keep hoping that I don’t encounter another dog coming from the other side. He is not a mean dog, I just don’t know how he picked up this bad behaviour but it’s not easy with him giving walk. He is close to 100 pounds and if it wasn’t for the prong collar then I would have not been able to held on to him with the way he lunges seeing other dogs barking at them aggressively.
 

I should mention that I have another dog which is a ShihTzu and she also barks at other dogs (sometimes). GSD being younger than the ShihTzu might have picked the behaviour from her. It’s hardly once or twice I took both of them out together on a walk, as it’s unmanageable hence I do not take both of them out together now. but ShihTzu is now more relaxed or atleast in absence of his GSD friend she doesn’t care to bark at other dogs on her walk.

I used the pop technique as well as with some lure in my hands and it has helped me a little bit as now he ignores another dog who doesn’t bark at him, but he still very nervously keeps checking on the other dog till the other dog is passed his sight, and if the other dog shows any aggression then he reacts. Please help me if you have any suggestions. I mean I have seen other GSDs taking walk “leash free” with their owners and not leaving their owner’s side or any kind of reaction in presence of other dogs (even when the other dog barks at them). So just wondering to how to reach that level of comfort zone and confidence with my dog. I believe he trusts me, he takes approvals by constantly looking at me as if to get permission or making sure I am there etc. but when he reacts he doesn’t listen to me.

Please share if you have any suggestions. Thanking you in advance.

 

Kind Regards 

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Please see my observations under yours in bold:

I find him difficult giving a walk because he tends to bark aggressively at other dogs even if they are on the other side of the road. I am using prong collar but that’s not improving the behaviour. It has given me some control over him but how can I make him act calm (or ignore) in presence of other dogs.

The prong can help give more control, it's like power steering. It can give you a better sense of control with large dogs. I know because I used to use it with my Rotties before switching to a harness. If you have been using it for some time and it helps you keep using that for the time being, but I would aim to eventually use a front-attachment harness (with the leash attaching to a front ring) just to prevent any potential "side effects' from the prong if he happens to lunge forward a lot.

Is your dog just barking or also lunging (pulling towards the other dogs) on walks?

If he is forcibly lunging, we want to avoid him from associating any discomfort with seeing dogs when he lunges (or from us popping the leash), which can risk turning dogs more reactive (but in a more negative way). Let me explain:

In a perfect, ideal situation, it would go like this:  the dog sees another dog and lunges→dog feels discomfort around neck from the prongs tightening→dog associates the discomfort around neck with lunging→the lunging behavior decreases so as to escape the discomfort

However, things may end up going this way too:  the dog sees another dog and lunges→dog feel discomfort around the neck from the prongs tightening→dog associates the discomfort with seeing other dogs→reactivity towards other dog increases

When we train our dogs, we can suppress certain behaviors, but there are some risks of side effects with this and classically conditioned associations (associative learning) risk piggy-backing as well. 

Now, an important question would be: is he still lunging a lot on walks, or would you say it has decreased over time? Is he only barking?

I used to take him to dog parks earlier (haven’t done in a month now after I read somewhere that dogs parks can give your dog disease, but that’s a different topic for a later time).

Yes, there are risks for disease, but also other several risks from a behavioral standpoint (which is why many dog trainers frown upon them), we can discuss this further anytime (or you can search the forums if you  want to dig deeper by searching dog and parks).

Leash free he plays fine with other dogs of every size in the dog park but with a “leash on” and walking him in my neighbourhood I literally keep hoping that I don’t encounter another dog coming from the other side. He is not a mean dog, I just don’t know how he picked up this bad behaviour but it’s not easy with him giving walk. He is close to 100 pounds and if it wasn’t for the prong collar then I would have not been able to held on to him with the way he lunges seeing other dogs barking at them aggressively.

If he gets along with dogs fine when he's off leash then it could be you are seeing the effect of barrier frustration.

You can read about barrier frustration here: https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/barrier-frustration/

***However, it's not always easy differentiating a true reactivity with an intent to harm from a barrier frustration case. It sounds like in some cases, your dog wants to "talk back" and "have the last word" if there is a dog who barks/acts "aggressive" towards him, which is a tendency often seen in GSD and Rotties. 

I should mention that I have another dog which is a ShihTzu and she also barks at other dogs (sometimes). GSD being younger than the ShihTzu might have picked the behaviour from her. It’s hardly once or twice I took both of them out together on a walk, as it’s unmanageable hence I do not take both of them out together now. but ShihTzu is now more relaxed or atleast in absence of his GSD friend she doesn’t care to bark at other dogs on her walk.

I am glad you are doing separate walks because it's close to impossible walking two reactive dogs at once and training them. They would feed off each others' emotions and they both need individual attention for the training to sink in.

I used the pop technique as well as with some lure in my hands and it has helped me a little bit as now he ignores another dog who doesn’t bark at him, but he still very nervously keeps checking on the other dog till the other dog is passed his sight, and if the other dog shows any aggression then he reacts.

Please help me if you have any suggestions. I mean I have seen other GSDs taking walk “leash free” with their owners and not leaving their owner’s side or any kind of reaction in presence of other dogs (even when the other dog barks at them). So just wondering to how to reach that level of comfort zone and confidence with my dog. I believe he trusts me, he takes approvals by constantly looking at me as if to get permission or making sure I am there etc. but when he reacts he doesn’t listen to me.

Please share if you have any suggestions. Thanking you in advance.

If he is in an unresponsive state, he is too over threshold. 

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/threshold-levels/

I have a rather comprehensive guide for this that builds upon the look at me and smacking sound: 

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/how-to-make-your-dog-less-reactive-on-walks/

If your GSD also turns his head repeatedly to check until the other dog is in sight, here is an example of a case study that may turn helpful:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/case-studies/03-homer-homers-reactivity/

I hope this helps, 

Feel free to ask questions and provide updates. Keep us posted on how things go!

Best,

Adrienne 

[DIPANNITA DAS]

Thank you Adrienne,
I will check the links you have suggested here and let you know how it goes. 

However I want to answer the questions you have asked me, here it is;

Q1) Is your dog just barking or also lunging?

I think its both. 
FYI, he walks by my side when we are on walk ( when we take a walk, I try that he does not walks ahead of me). I learned that I should give leash pops by watching some YouTube videos on leash reactivity, and gave him leash pops a few times when I knew he is going to bark at the other dog. I have tried this very recently hence can't say if its working for sure. But since then and with some lures in my hand i have observed that he is barking selectively now. If he is passing any new dog who doesn't care or is not looking/barking at him then my dog is not reacting at the other dog (not even a bark but he still keeps checking, even by turning his head back and making sure the other dog has passed till the other dog out of sight - just wondering is it normal for GSDs to be this suspicious or is stemming out of lack of socializing? as i said for socializing I only took him to dog parks where he used to play fine with other dogs, earlier he also attended in-person foundation training class as a pup with 7 or 8 other dogs and a few time he goes to pet smart and pet value stores with me). 

Coming to the point, so he passes some dogs fine now, but there is another familiar dog, a lab who was once "barked at" by both my dogs (unfortunately GSD and Shih Tzu were together at that time). So, if this lab is coming from the other side, then even the lab keeps checking on us and i think that is what triggering my GSD as they might be exchanging glances. My GSD then starts barking and lunging even though the lab is not barking back at him. 

When he barks his body language is like this, he watches the dog, waits for the other dog to almost reach him on the other side (as if when they are exactly opposite to each other), then as soon as they pass he starts to barks as well as lunge pulling me with all his strength. Since he is on prong hence I am able to hold on to him. But now he is barking selectively, hence its getting difficult for me to judge whether he is going to pass or make a scene. 

I will read rest of he articles you have suggested and I will let you know how it goes.

Much thanks for your time.
 

Regards

[Adrienne Farricelli]

On 4/11/2023 at 3:40 AM, DIPANNITA DAS said:

Thank you Adrienne,
I will check the links you have suggested here and let you know how it goes. 

However I want to answer the questions you have asked me, here it is;

Q1) Is your dog just barking or also lunging?

I think its both. 
FYI, he walks by my side when we are on walk ( when we take a walk, I try that he does not walks ahead of me). I learned that I should give leash pops by watching some YouTube videos on leash reactivity, and gave him leash pops a few times when I knew he is going to bark at the other dog. I have tried this very recently hence can't say if its working for sure. But since then and with some lures in my hand i have observed that he is barking selectively now. If he is passing any new dog who doesn't care or is not looking/barking at him then my dog is not reacting at the other dog (not even a bark but he still keeps checking, even by turning his head back and making sure the other dog has passed till the other dog out of sight - just wondering is it normal for GSDs to be this suspicious or is stemming out of lack of socializing? as i said for socializing I only took him to dog parks where he used to play fine with other dogs, earlier he also attended in-person foundation training class as a pup with 7 or 8 other dogs and a few time he goes to pet smart and pet value stores with me). 

Coming to the point, so he passes some dogs fine now, but there is another familiar dog, a lab who was once "barked at" by both my dogs (unfortunately GSD and Shih Tzu were together at that time). So, if this lab is coming from the other side, then even the lab keeps checking on us and i think that is what triggering my GSD as they might be exchanging glances. My GSD then starts barking and lunging even though the lab is not barking back at him. 

When he barks his body language is like this, he watches the dog, waits for the other dog to almost reach him on the other side (as if when they are exactly opposite to each other), then as soon as they pass he starts to barks as well as lunge pulling me with all his strength. Since he is on prong hence I am able to hold on to him. But now he is barking selectively, hence its getting difficult for me to judge whether he is going to pass or make a scene. 

I will read rest of he articles you have suggested and I will let you know how it goes.

Much thanks for your time.
 

Regards

You are very welcome!

Thanks for providing the extra details and clarifications.

I would skip the leash pops given when he is barking and trying as much as possible to catch him *before* he has the opportunity to bark. I would try to keep him under threshold as possible and train a very fluent response to a smacking sound and feed treats contingent upon seeing another dog. This will help keep all basis covered so that you have no guesswork to rely on (is this a dog he will react to or not? when in doubt, cover all basis out-ok not the perfect rhyme, but you get the concept!)

By feeding treats anytime he sees a dog, you are:

-Creating positive associations upon seeing all dogs

-Reinforcing looking up at you (an alternate behavior to barking)

-Increasing the level of trust and bond between you and your dog

-Opening the lines of communication

Win-win!

Make sure not to miss the "LAT on the go" method I used with Homer for dogs who keep turning around when there is a dog walking behind. https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/case-studies/03-homer-homers-reactivity/

You asked:  just wondering is it normal for GSDs to be this suspicious or is stemming out of lack of socializing? as i said for socializing I only took him to dog parks where he used to play fine with other dogs, earlier he also attended in-person foundation training class as a pup with 7 or 8 other dogs and a few time he goes to pet smart and pet value stores with me). 

It sounds like you did a good overall job in providing ongoing socialization with other dogs, although dog parks as mentioned are not my favorite place for socialization as there are too many unruly dogs. However, the training classes may have helped teach him how to stay under control in the presence of dogs while maintaining his social skills and that may have helped a lot.

I would keep up on taking him to classes if you can or at least work on obedience skills in presence of dogs (like when at the pet store or the pet store parking lot, or when walking him around the perimeter of the dog park despite the presence of other dogs playing at a distance in the park). 

In general, puppy and juvenile GSD are OK with other dogs, but as they mature, they may become more discerning about what people or dogs will become part of their social circle.

Of course, this doesn’t apply to all German Shepherds. Just like snowflakes, no two dogs are created alike. Even among puppies of the same breed sharing a litter, you’ll find wide differences between one dog’s temperament and another.

Generally though, we see changes around the onset of social maturity. Social maturity in dogs generally takes place between the ages around 18 to 24 months of age, although in some dogs it can start as early as 10 to 12 months and lasts up to 24 to 36 months.

This is a time of changes during which the brain undergoes significant remodeling of neurons and extensive pruning of them, where some connections between neurons are strengthened and maintained, while others are weakened and discarded.

During this delicate time, behavior changes take place and it is possible for behavior problems to emerge which may include the onset of fears and increased reactivity. It’s not unusual for German Shepherds to undergo changes in their sociability as they reach social maturity.

While changes in sociability can happen in dogs of many breeds as they reach social maturity, it may be more pronounced in a dog breed like the German Shepherd.

What changes are most commonly seen?

You may notice how they may no longer tolerate certain behaviors from other dogs. If a puppy or young dog happens to jump up to his face or places a paw on his shoulder, he may be “shooed away” with a low warning growl.

While your German Shepherd played with most dogs at the dog park, during the onset of adolescence through social maturity he may start getting more selective.

He may prefer to play with a few good doggy pals he has known for some time and that are part of his circle of friends.

You may also notice changes in your dog’s overall sociability, with your dog becoming more serious and slightly less interested in play. He may still play with other dogs occasionally, but his play sessions may become shorter as he moves on to something else like sniffing around or exploring his surroundings.

German shepherds, along with several other predisposed breeds, may also tend to assume the fun police role. These dogs are attempting to establish law and order by managing the other dogs at the dog park as soon as he notices a dog playing too roughly or the beginning of a potential fight.

While before he may have ignored a squabble or another dog growling, now he’s willing to answer a challenge.

Of course, every dog is different so it's not easy to make predictions, but I would certainly advise to not let him rehearse the barking and pulling behaviors as much as possible as these can become habit-forming the more they are rehearsed. So lots of management, working on keeping him better under threshold and training alternate reinforceable behaviors so as to build up a repertoire of more desirable behaviors contingent upon the sight of other dogs.

[DIPANNITA DAS]

Awesome, thank you so much.

[DIPANNITA DAS]

Hello Adrienne,

just one more question, I sometimes see people suggesting to ask your leash reactive dog to sit and look at you while another dog is approaching. I tried it but wasn’t a success but again few other people say not to stop and keep walking past the other dog. So what is suggested? Thanks

[Adrienne Farricelli]

I have personally found that keep walking past the dog (ideally while looking at us) is easier in the initial stages. We can certainly aim for a sit and look, but later on once the dog is calmer and in a more operant state.

I have found that most dogs who are reactive struggle with sitting in presence of other dogs and I suppose this can be because:

1) sitting makes them feel in a vulnerable position

2) when seeing another dog they have a surge in kinetic energy and struggle with staying still 

3) it can take some time to get a dog comfortable enough to sit on walks with all the distractions going on 

If a dog is too close for comfort or overwhelmingly exciting for our dogs, I would aim to do an emergency U-turn:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/emergency-u-turn/

 

 

[DIPANNITA DAS]

Thank you so much

[Adrienne Farricelli]

You're very welcome!

Keep us posted on your progress,

Best,

Adrienne