Silky Leash

[cammidge]

My trainer gave us some advice and tricks for loose leash walking, but so far all I seem to be doing is creating a lunging beast with absolutely no manners and dragging her around to put her in her crate as frustration mounts. Got any ideas?

[JMFS]

Here's the course for leash training: https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/pulling-on-the-leash/

 

I find that turning and walking the other way is an effective method. I will warn you that sometimes it Does take 10, 15, maybe even 20 or more attempts, but the number decreases over time. I have to retrain Momo every time I take him for a walk because we don't go very often since he has the run (and boy does he ever) of about half an acre of land with lots of trees and bushes to explore. Gertrude is much better, but before each walk I do a little refresher course in the parking lot because there's so much new stimuli and her attention is not on me until we do our mini session. I start in the parking lot because it's a smaller area that's easier to control and it sets the tone for the real walk. The more distractions, the tougher it is to train so starting with a smaller area and conquering that, then moving to a larger area, conquering that, rinse and repeat, is also a good method.

 

When you speak of lunging, is it at people, children, dogs, cars, or just in general? Dogs tend to pull so they can get closer to whatever is interesting them.

[cammidge]

It's everything. Did I mention that I'm a bit disabled, so sudden turns may not be ideal for me. Hubby is extremely frustrated with her, and 'walks' consist of a trek through our property with her going in every direction, practicing unwanted behaviour, but he doesn't want to listen to me. This is supposed to be my service dog, which may be the wrong term by the time she's done with me!

Edited June 30, 2019 by cammidge

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Hello Cammidge,

Have you tried a front-attachment harness? Are you using high-value treats for training? What have you tried so far?

Edited June 30, 2019 by Adrienne Farricelli

[cammidge]

So far, no harness, as it's another expense on top of everything else. She's going to be big, so right now, it's keep it simple and succeed. I've been using Rollover, which she likes, cut up very small, on the recommendation of our trainer. I did some loose leash practice in the house, as there are so many distractions for her outside, and then did a pratfall, which caused her to come running - not sure if it was 'hey Mom's down, here's my chance to dominate' or 'oh, no' - hoping for the latter. Maybe hubby will clue in that this is important.

[JMFS]

One thing I found was, as much as they love my pumpkin treats, those treats weren't high value enough. I had to upgrade to chicken and Newman's Own dog jerky. With the chicken I boiled a couple pounds then set some aside in the fridge and then cut up and froze the rest in individual Ziplocs so I could take them out each night to allow them to thaw for the next day's training. When I have leftover steak (not often as I usually devour it, lol) I cut that up and put it in the fridge for the next day, or I use it right then and there while it's still warm'ish. Cheese is another big motivator, but I limit that due to the fat content and dogs' general lactose intolerance. I've found the more tantalizing the treat smells, the higher value they assign to it and the harder they'll work for it. Oh, beef hot dogs cut in quarters lengthwise and then into ¼ inch (.75 cm?) pieces worked well, too. I just don't like the fat content in those because Momo is prone to pancreatitis (I also avoid pork products for that reason).

 

How often does hubby participate in training? I know, firsthand, how much more of a challenge it is when you're the only one working with the pooch. Dogs don't see it as they're your dog or his dog, they see it as they're your dog and you're their humans - you're all one family, and because of that hubby's participation and support would be of great help.

 

Feel free to send me a PM any ol' time if you need some moral support because I totally get the unmovable object issue. I normally check this forum a few times per day most days because I whip through my work fast and get bored, or on the tougher days I need a mental break and dog talk is just that. I'll leave the actual training advice to Adrienne, though I do like to Try to help by tossing in the "this is what worked for us" info here and there. ;)

[cammidge]

Thanks so much for your support, Jennifer. The problem is that I decided a few years ago that I wanted a new dog, before Bracken (spaniel x retriever mix) got too old to deal with it. Well now he's 13 and not enjoying it much, and hubby is resenting puppy for picking on Bracken (which I get) but it's translating into 'everything puppy does is malicious and mean' rather than it's up to us to educate her. He is very poverty and lack in mindset, doesn't think we should spend money on getting help to train her, but doesn't want to contribute himself. While I'm struggling to even get around, I see the huge strides she's making, and I also have this visualization of her as an adult, helping me, assisting me, and generally being a 'good dog'.

[JMFS]

What kind of picking on is happening and when is it likely to happen?

 

Here's what we experience: Gertie slaps her paw on top of Abbi sometimes and she'll do that play bow and wiggle all over the floor around Abbi. Well, that's all fine and good with another dog who wants to play, but Abbi is arthritic and 10 lbs as opposed to Gertie's 45+ lbs and I'm sure it's terrifying to Abbi. Abbi then goes into full Cujo mode and attacks Gertie, which excites Gertie. I'm not sure how Gertie translates that reaction but it sure doesn't stop her from trying to play. My solution is to recall Gertie to me and make her sit. Abbi chases her, though, so it's quite a task. With practice it's gotten better, but it can get the heart pumping sometimes! It happens infrequently now and we can spot when it's about to happen so we can stop it before it starts.

 

I did watch a video yesterday of Victoria Stilwell dealing with a similar problem and size disparity. One of her solutions was to train the dogs together while both dogs were on leash so they could be more easily managed. When Bella (bigger dog) would go after Charlie (Yorkie) they'd distract Bella and reward her for leaving Charlie alone. It was simple training - getting them to sit. Then they swapped dogs and did it again. There was major tension between the husband and wife because they blamed each others dogs' for the behavior, hence the swapping so they'd bond with the other spouse's dog. As they became more relaxed around each other she'd move them closer and continue the training. The leash thing might work for you since your mobility is hindered and it would give you a little more control and reaction time.

[cammidge]

Oh your situation sounds somewhat similar. In our case, Bracken, old and mostly blind, very arthritic, is so attractive to Sable who runs up to him to gently bite on his shoulder or hock, gets thoroughly rebuffed/corrected by Bracken who just wants treats and to be left alone to sleep. I hate the idea that Sable will keep terrorizing him so I call her/drag her away to give treats to a marked behaviour, whether that's to sit and give me eye contact or just get away from B. His last few months of a great life should not be dealing with a bratty bully.

[JMFS]

At least Sable is gentle. :D Gertie most certainly is Not. We've determined Gertrude doesn't understand size. At the dog park she played with the little dogs and the big dogs exactly the same way. She got trampled by the German Shepherds and she trampled the whatever that thing was, lol. Ball of Fur, I believe the breed was - I couldn't tell which end was which until it barked!

 

Looking at the office at the moment I see another thing we did. We separated the girls with Gertie being next to my desk and Abbi next to hubby's. Abbi is also protected by 3 walls so Gertrude has only one access point and no reason to be there. On the couch hubby sits between the girls (I have my own loveseat so I can spread out my crochet) to act as a barrier.

 

You're on the right track with redirecting her. Eventually she'll prefer to leave poor Bracken alone. I'm guessing walking her by Bracken and rewarding her for keeping her attention on you would further drive home the point that leaving Bracken alone = good times.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

So far, no harness, as it's another expense on top of everything else. She's going to be big, so right now, it's keep it simple and succeed. I've been using Rollover, which she likes, cut up very small, on the recommendation of our trainer. I did some loose leash practice in the house, as there are so many distractions for her outside, and then did a pratfall, which caused her to come running - not sure if it was 'hey Mom's down, here's my chance to dominate' or 'oh, no' - hoping for the latter. Maybe hubby will clue in that this is important.

 

Thanks for the details! A harness like an Easy-Walk harness can easily cost under $20. Your dog trainer may have one for you to try out and see how it works out for you. I would be more then happy to send you one if you would like once I am back to the USA (I am overseas until July 25th). You will find several tips on polite leash walking here:

 

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/forum/showthread.php?113-Over-excitement

[cammidge]

I got hubby to pick up some Zucks natural minis, which so far she loves - haven't opened the liver treats yet - saving the big guns for when I REALLY need them (going to the vets on Thursday for second vaccinations?) but we'll work on the redirection a lot more.

 

Adrienne, I think we cross posted as I didn't see your reply. I'll see if my trainer has a Halti I can try. I used one on Bracken very briefly (terrible pulling and lunging at the same kind of age) but hated it as it cut into his eyes (not literally, but the skin below). Maybe I just didn't know how to adjust it!

Edited July 2, 2019 by cammidge

[jbcovell]

So I know what I am about to say will not be popular here, but I have found using a prong collar for training has made a night and day difference with our dog Sasha. We only put it on her for walks and it immediately comes off when she gets home. She has ceased lunging and trying to jump on people when we are on walks.

[cammidge]

I used a prong collar for a while on Bracken but we both hated it. Some people swear by them, but I'm no longer in that camp.

[jbcovell]

There is a trainer named Garrett Stevens who has created a collar that he says works better than the prong collar. He custom makes them. I have not tried it but you might want to check it out.

[cammidge]

There's absolutely no point in getting a custom made collar for a three month old puppy who has a LOT of growing to do, but thanks for the info.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

I got hubby to pick up some Zucks natural minis, which so far she loves - haven't opened the liver treats yet - saving the big guns for when I REALLY need them (going to the vets on Thursday for second vaccinations?) but we'll work on the redirection a lot more.

 

Adrienne, I think we cross posted as I didn't see your reply. I'll see if my trainer has a Halti I can try. I used one on Bracken very briefly (terrible pulling and lunging at the same kind of age) but hated it as it cut into his eyes (not literally, but the skin below). Maybe I just didn't know how to adjust it!

 

Yes, haltis can take some time to adjust to and require an adjustment period with lots of conditioning. Some dogs never really get used to them while others habituate to it if introduced correctly. They need to be fitted correctly and once put on correctly it resembles the letter "V" rather than the letter "L." The halti should not rub against the eye area; rather, it should be resting near the nose, away from the eyes. Some haltis offer a more comfortable fit, courtesy of padding over the nose area. The Canny Collar is a model that should reduce the risks for neck or spine injuries in dogs who tend to lunge strongly. Service dogs can distinguish when they are on "duty" when wearing them.

 

It's important to point out that as with other training tools, a head collar is a management tool. It doesn't really teach a dog not to pull entirely. Only loose leash walking training accomplishes that (focus and heel work). Something to consider though is that by time one has desensitized dog to wearing it appropriately, that same dog could have been trained to walk decently without one if the training is done with the help of a reputable trainer using a front-attachment harness.

[JMFS]

Some dogs never really get used to them while others habituate to it if introduced correctly.

 

For the first 5 minutes Momo can be witnessed doing the Electric Slide with his face in the grass. After that initial temper tantrum he's great. I wish I could find mine, it got lost when I moved from TX to FL, because it was a heaven send for that little turkey. We literally spend 20 minutes spinning in circles because he's just so flippin' hyper and the (ours was the Gentle Leader) was night and day difference. All I had to do was flick my pinky and he'd come right back to heel - it was amazing how such a light touch could reel him in. I just looked at Chewy.com and dang, the things have come Way down in price in 8 years! Under $15 for the Gentle Leader and $13 for the Halti (medium sizes) compared to when I bought mine, which was $28. I'm definitely buying a new one.

Edited July 3, 2019 by JenniferM.

[cammidge]

I don't feel confident enough to get one without my trainer doing some work with it. I find that if I'm by myself (no Bracken) I can get her moderately under control by my walker. I haven't tried my ski poles or canes yet! The trainer is coming up at some point soon when she can shake loose a couple of hours, so that's what we'll be working on - along with 'leave it' and a few other things.

[JMFS]

I know it can be overwhelming having products thrown your way buuuut . . . I wonder, if your hands were free would you be able to balance better? I bought this leash: https://www.petsmart.com/dog/collars-harnesses-and-leashes/leashes/kong-premium-pouch-and-bungee-dog-leash-48830.html and I Love it. I wear it around my waist so I'm hands free and then when she pulls she starts feeling that resistance right away. If not for now, it might be something to consider for the future when she's under better control so you can have your hands free. Petsmart is the only place I've seen it so far and I was able to purchase it in-store without the pouch. Even so it was $30, but when I take both pups to the Veterinarian it's So much easier to sign paperwork and whatnot. Like you, Gertie is fine solo, but when Momo is with us all Hell breaks loose. He's like a permission slip to throw All training out the window and just be a dog. Anyway, the thing I like most about that leash is that it's not Me reacting, it's the leash doing its natural thing in response to her behavior so it's a neutral entity. I get tense in social situations (my life goal is to become a hermit) and I may be prone to overreact so this leash is a good answer to that issue.

 

I totally understand about wanting guidance. My Gentle Leader came with a DVD and I watched that video 2 times before trying the collar and then 3 more while I was adjusting it and training. I was very much aware that even a light touch was sending a clear signal to him and I didn't want to hurt him with it. I probably went overboard, but hey - I'd rather play to caution!