inter house dog aggression

[hridika]

Hi,

I rescued a bordercollie x aussie and she has a 2 major issues.

She is very protective of me (F) and hates men (Husband is 6'4") and protects me from our other dog who is a 60lb golden (princess). The biggest issue is when we are in the basement with 2 couches and a coffee table, so a bit crowded, if the rescue (Remie) thinks there is food and the golden (Hannah) comes to that area, Remie "attacks". I use quotes as it's all loud noises and snapping and scary to watch and listen to, but there is never actual contact. I drag Remie away and all is fine. But my husband gets very upset and states we have to get rid of her. It will be one year Sept 1st that we rescued her. She has come a long way, but I hate it that he keeps holding over my head that we have to get rid of her as he can't trust her. Around kids, or men, or other dogs. (we don't have kids and no friends over anyway) He has done a lot of work with her, so she likes him now, but every now and then, when I'm sick in bed (always the bedroom) and he comes in late or tries to move her, she barks and snaps at him (never any contact). Which is also very upsetting for him. I took her and husband to one - on -one training and it helped and trainer said it's more fear and not aggression. They eat in their kennels and I train with treats, and have no issues then, only in the close quarters of the basement this happens, How do I get Remie to stop "attacking" Hannah like that? (they are both spade and Remie is roughly 3yrs and Hannah is 4).

[JMFS]

Good morning,

 

I found a post Adrienne answered about another dog who was fearful of the husband and thought I'd share: https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/forum/showthread.php?64-Our-new-dog-is-afraid-of-my-husband&highlight=fear

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Greetings, and welcome to the forums,

So sorry you are struggling with these problems.

 

Did the trainer suggest any behavior modification for the issues you have been facing? When dealing with aggression and conflict among dogs sharing the same household things get challenging and the best (and safest option) is to have a professional come into your home, evaluate your dog/dogs and the environment in which they live and then provide a custom-tailored approach based on several factors.

 

Generally, for cases of dog behavior problems involving fear/aggression, we like to use techniques based on desensitization and counterconditioning. Familiarizing oneself with these techniques is very helpful.

 

Here is a read on desensitization:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/desensitization/

 

Here is a read on counterconditioning:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/counterconditioning/

 

Very important in behavior modification is to keep the dog under threshold:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/threshold-levels/

 

You will have to log in into the member's area to access this reading material.

 

Now, let's go through a few examples of behavior modification that you can have done along with a dog behavior professional hopefully employing force-free methods (these methods work best because we do not want to add any more stress from using aversion-based techniques).

 

In the case of your dog acting protective of you when you are sick in bed, behavior modification would therefore involve doing several rehearsals of you being in bed with your dog nearby (leashed and muzzled for safety if a bite is possible) and you feeding your dog high-value treats every time your husband approaches initially starting at a distance where your dog is under threshold. The purpose is creating very strong, positive associations with your husband and the treats happen only contingent to your husband's presence and then his approach. As distance is decreased, it is then possible to raise criteria to the point of your husband getting closer and tossing treats to your dog. Distance is then further increased, with your husband tossing treats as he places a hand on the bed, then tossing treats as he places one leg on the bed, then tossing treats while sitting on the bed, then tossing treats when laying on the bed for a few seconds.

 

Duration is then added by giving your dog a longer lasting treat (like a cookie) to enjoy once your husband stays longer on the bed. Done correctly, with time, your dog may develop a new bed-time routine of looking forward to having your husband in the bedroom versus dreading it. This exercise should be done often enough to stick in your dog's mind and once you get a nice conditioned emotional response, you may have to just do some re-fresher sessions every now and then to maintain things (although having your hubby give her a cookie every evening when coming to bed may be very helpful if she has moments of not trusting him fully, such as when you are sick). Giving a tempting cookie is also a good way to have her move away rather than him having to touch her.

 

The process is over all similar to what is done here:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/dog-barking-someone-enters-room/

 

If your dog at any time reacts, that is often a sign that she wasn't ready for that level of interaction and therefore you need to work from further distance and/or reduce the salience of the stimulus/situation.

 

Now, behavior modification takes some time to implement and requires management when the dog is not being actively worked with and conditioned. This means that when these sessions are not practiced, the dog should be kept away from his triggers considering that, it can be highly reinforcing for dogs to bark/growl and lunge considering that the person or dog in question often leaves/or is removed from the situation following this display. Because the behavior 'works' therefore it strengthens with time and repeats, establishing a strong history. If your dog has therefore been rehearsing this protective behavior for many months, versus being a fairly new behavior. it may take longer for a new behavior pattern to establish.

 

An alternative to behavior modification is strict management. In other words preventing the dog from the opportunity to rehearse the problem behavior. In this case, the dog's privilege of being allowed on the bed is removed and the dog is provided with an alternative sleeping quarter such as crate or an area behind an exercise pen. However, management is often not easy for dog owners to implement 100 percent, and the likelihood of it failing at some point is high, hence why behavior modification still plays an important role.

 

I agree with your trainer that this is most likely based on fear. Very likely your dog feels safe in your presence and not 100 percent safe towards your husband and this causes her to act falsely bold in your presence, attempting to send your husband away.

 

In the meanwhile, prior to starting behavior modification, you should prevent your dog from rehearsing the troublesome behavior. If your dog acts protective in presence of your husband approaching when you are sick, in that case, keep the bedroom door shut and the dog away from the bedroom area to prevent rehearsal of the problem behavior.

 

I will address the issues between Remie and Hannah in the basement in a next post.

Edited August 31, 2019 by Adrienne Farricelli

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Now, to the aggression between Remie and Hannah. Things can get quite complex when dogs of the same household exhibit aggression because there may be various dynamics going on.

 

First of all, the good stuff. If your dogs have been having "noisy discussions" and nothing more for all the time you have had them, most likely they are practicing decent conflict resolution. Sure it can be noisy, sure it may seem intense, but if nobody gets hurt at the end, that is a big plus, compared to cases where dogs are at each other and have a history of injuring themselves.

 

Now, you mention that you have to drag Remie away, so it is possible that this is why your dogs haven't ever injured each other if you have been doing that all the time. If you are very swift, there are chances that with your intervention, you may have prevented things from escalating, but usually I must say, if dogs have a real intent to harm each other, they are quite quick in doing that and many serious fights are rather quiet or with very little "talking," giving you little chance to get up on your feet on time. So overall, this doesn't sound like a very dire situation compared to some other cases.

 

Now, the bad news, not always things stay that way. Sometimes things may escalate and this most often happens when one dog for some reason or another decided to not "back down" or there is some sort of aggravating factor at play. We also need to thread with caution because two female dogs can stir trouble at times especially the closer they are in age. An aggravating factor can be the tight quarters (the small area you describe in the basement) and the fact that you own a mix of two serious working dog breeds (Remie) which may not always enjoy much the happy-go-lucky all in your face behavior of Golden/Labrador type dogs.

 

A small area may interfere with proper body language and conflict resolution. If for example Hannah is trying to back off at some point from a "heated discussion" and wishes to remove herself, perhaps she may get stuck or may be unable to turn her head to avert direct eye contact (which is a calming signal) there are risks that Remie may perceive this as her not "backing down" and she may feel compelled to escalate to get the point across. Now, this doesn't always mean a bite, but perhaps an air snap or more intense vocalizations, but generally, yes, smaller areas can pose some challenges in dog negotiations, which is why you are likely seeing more fights in this area than other areas of the home.

 

For "hot spots" as such, it may help to remove the sources of conflict as much as possible through management of the environment. So if there are squabbles over an empty bowl of popcorn, make sure to not place it in that room and do not leave crumbs around or other things that provide opportunities for conflict. You may have to get into your dog's mind to define exactly what objects makes your dog "think there is food" and to remove those things when both dogs are down stairs.

 

Also, establishing a new routine may help as well. Perhaps, you can keep both dogs quite busy prior to going in the area so they are more likely to snooze on their mats rather than have discussions over petty things. You own high energy dog breeds so they may need a certain level of exercise and mental stimulation.

 

Sure behavior modification can be applied too in dogs who resource guard towards other dogs, but a risk assessment needs to be done: how much time, money and will, do owners have to invest in it? How serious are the fights? How often do the fights occur? Can they be prevented easily? This is something a behavior professional would asses when tackling aggression in dogs sharing the household. In some circumstances, it may be easier to simply remove sources of conflict or keeping both dogs in separate areas if this is limited to only certain occasions and certain areas.

 

A word of caution is needed in regards to dragging Remie away when your two dogs are fighting. When dogs are in a fight, even if's just noise or air snapping, intervening can sometimes put you at risk for a redirected bite. So use lots of caution here. I am not sure how you are dragging Remie away, but if it's by her collar, consider that there are risks. Collar grabs carry high statistics of bites.

 

If you are dragging her away by lifting her hindquarters, that may be safer, although it's not unheard of for some dogs being able to turn around and bite. A safer option may be to keep pot lids handy and clank them together to distract them or use an air horn. Some dog owners have success by ringing a door bell or tossing a blanket over both of the fighting parties.

 

Finally, dogs who exhibit aggression should always have a veterinarian assess them. It is possible that some dogs may have underlying medical problems causing issues that lower their threshold for aggression, one common issue being low thyroid levels. Some dogs are more likely to act aggressively if they are stressed. Their cortisol levels are high and they are easier to be reactive and hyper alert.

 

A disclaimer is warranted here since we are dealing with several forms of aggression: caution is always needed when dealing with cases of aggression. Behavior modification comes with risks and therefore it's important to seek out the assistance of a dog behavior professional for safety and correct implementation. Muzzle training may be needed if there are risks for bites and a management plan is advisable while awaiting the aid of professional.

Edited August 31, 2019 by Adrienne Farricelli

[hridika]

Thanks, We did the treats in bathroom, I put a touch lamp beside the bed and leashed. I worked great, then she learned to turn the touch lamp on at 2am. But we continue to do this and it helps a lot.

I believe you are correct about the tight basement, I knew it was the problem, but couldn't figure out why. It's because you are right, Hannah gets trapped and can't move or look away or anything. She gets pinned between Remie and the couch and can't do anything. But I notice Remie also gets nasty when I bring in groceries (food) that she thinks is hers? she will lunge towards Hannah, who is no where around.

I can try throwing a blanket on them, but have a feeling this won't do much to calm them down. The other thing adding to the problem is my husband who starts screaming and waving his huge hands around. SIGH, I keep saying they are feeding from your energy and you aren't helping. but the blanket may help him as well.

I believe she has a bad hip and I take here to chiropractor, who states it's probably causing mild pain, but not enough to show, or make her limp or yelp. Vet has not noticed anything. But stated no high active sports, agility, fly ball.

I walk them 22 min morning, and 15 min noon (if not too hot) and 1hr in evening. I try to trick train her, but it's hard with the 2 dogs.

She is also really starting to get more barky then before. Wanting constant attention. And won't stop barking if we are at the cabin and leave her. I don't know what to do about the barking, as it's really high pitched and very hard on the ears. It's been 1yr now that we have rescued her and my husband still states he wants her gone. So I am trying everything I can to keep her. Behaviour training classes starts in a few weeks. and if you could link me to any barking for attention info, that would be great.

I really have tried to do everything I can with her and she has come a long way. and it breaks my heart for my husband to still say he wants her gone (mostly when he's very upset). It is hard for him, as she definitely is bonded to me more than him, but you get back what you give!

Thanks for the ifo

[JMFS]

SIGH, I keep saying they are feeding from your energy and you aren't helping. but the blanket may help him as well.

 

Hahaha! :D Truth!

 

For the barking, what is it she's barking at? Just your husband, or other things, too?

 

If it's attention barking I'd leave the room, wait until she's quiet, return. Rinse and repeat until it sinks in that bark = no attention. We're doing something like this with Abbi now that I finally have my husband on board (because he sees how awesome Adrienne's help has been where he rolled his eyes previously). Abbi howls, carries on, and sounds like a hyperventilating hyena when he gets home (she knows it has zero effect on me and she'll simply be ignored so she doesn't bother - only with him). It's an impressive lot of noise from a pipsqueak (10 lbs) and it drives me batty. We have a baby gate separating the kitchen from half the house and that's where she is when we get home. We wait in the kitchen until Abbi is quiet, which can be 10 minutes. Once she's quiet he can go into the office, set his things down, and if she's still quiet she'll get attention. If she starts up again, he comes back into the kitchen until she stops. Poor Gertie is waiting behind her ex-pen wondering what all the hubbub is about, though sometimes she'll join in initially! Abbi's had 11 years to rehearse this insanity so it will take time, but each session is getting shorter.

[hridika]

She barks real bad when we leave the cabin, this is something new, so not sure if she finally realized she likes us and has decided we are her forever home, and now misses us. But she does not do this at our house.

[JMFS]

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/forum/showthread.php?130-Thundershirt Posts #8 and 9 may help. I wonder if it could be that she's fearful she's being abandoned at the cabin since it's less familiar than the house. Less scented like y'all, foreign sounds and objects, and it could bring back feelings of being left at the shelter (without knowing her history there I'm guessing). When she's left alone at the cabin does she get free reign of the place, or do y'all kennel the pups? If you kennel them you might try a Kong stuffed with treats so she has something positive and comforting to focus on. I say if they're kenneled because they have that tension issue happening currently and leaving treats out would give them opportunity to get into it with each other while you're gone.

[hridika]

Hmm thanks, that's interesting. We have had the cabin for 5 yrs. It is only one room 20' x 20'. then a separate 10' screened in porch. I no longer kennel them anytime, except when we are eating. The problem could be that there are NO sounds, other than birds. It's in the middle of 100 acres, so only wildlife. I can't give them treats unattended. I do believe it stems from being abandoned in a kennel. She barks when she can see us through the porch screens and barks when she can't see us in the cabin, but continues to bark, when we are talking and I know she can hear me as the windows are open. Then goes NUTS when we open the door. Even if it's only been 10 min. She has been coming to the cabin with us for a year, since we got her. Every weekend from April to mid Nov. So this location is not new, but I believe the barking is getting worse. Thanks for the tips. I thought about taping my voice and playing it for her, as radio does not work. I'll look into the thunder shirts.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Thanks, We did the treats in bathroom, I put a touch lamp beside the bed and leashed. I worked great, then she learned to turn the touch lamp on at 2am. But we continue to do this and it helps a lot.

I believe you are correct about the tight basement, I knew it was the problem, but couldn't figure out why. It's because you are right, Hannah gets trapped and can't move or look away or anything. She gets pinned between Remie and the couch and can't do anything. But I notice Remie also gets nasty when I bring in groceries (food) that she thinks is hers? she will lunge towards Hannah, who is no where around.

I can try throwing a blanket on them, but have a feeling this won't do much to calm them down. The other thing adding to the problem is my husband who starts screaming and waving his huge hands around. SIGH, I keep saying they are feeding from your energy and you aren't helping. but the blanket may help him as well.

I believe she has a bad hip and I take here to chiropractor, who states it's probably causing mild pain, but not enough to show, or make her limp or yelp. Vet has not noticed anything. But stated no high active sports, agility, fly ball.

I walk them 22 min morning, and 15 min noon (if not too hot) and 1hr in evening. I try to trick train her, but it's hard with the 2 dogs.

She is also really starting to get more barky then before. Wanting constant attention. And won't stop barking if we are at the cabin and leave her. I don't know what to do about the barking, as it's really high pitched and very hard on the ears. It's been 1yr now that we have rescued her and my husband still states he wants her gone. So I am trying everything I can to keep her. Behaviour training classes starts in a few weeks. and if you could link me to any barking for attention info, that would be great.

I really have tried to do everything I can with her and she has come a long way. and it breaks my heart for my husband to still say he wants her gone (mostly when he's very upset). It is hard for him, as she definitely is bonded to me more than him, but you get back what you give!

Thanks for the ifo

 

I wouldn't worry much about turning the touch lamp. I would take a dog who does that over any form of aggressive behavior. That behavior should extinguish quickly as long as she never gets treats for touching the touch lamp. By the way, if she takes to this behavior naturally, you can teach her to turn on/off lights on cue, which is a cute trick! Our dog learned this trick quickly and it made for a quite handy trick when you are in a dark room.

 

"But I notice Remie also gets nasty when I bring in groceries (food) that she thinks is hers? she will lunge towards Hannah, who is no where around."

 

Is Hannah no where around or is she initially, but is reminded by Remie's body language not to approach you? Did she used to be around when you got home from grocery shopping in the past, but is now no where to find because she is scared of being bullied by Remie? Do your dogs ever show signs of conflict when you come home from work or other places, or only when you come inside bringing groceries? Does Remie ever send Hannah away from the kitchen area when you place the groceries on the counter or in the kitchen area?

 

The goal of throwing a blanket is to confuse the dogs (wait, why is it suddenly so dark? what is this thing over us? how can we get it off?) in hopes that they will focus on something else and get distracted from each other. Care should be taken in not touching the dogs under the blanket, as this too may lead to a redirected bite. The dogs should figure how to get it off and then the owner can take advantage of those few seconds of confusion to redirect the dogs to doing something else (hey dogs, let's go in the yard a bit!) in hopes that they won't go back to "where were we? Ahh... right, we were fighting over this food!"

 

Now, I must admit, I have never personally used the blanket strategy for dogs fighting, but I have used it for out of control play in small dogs who weren't trained yet to respond to verbal cues like "that's enough!" or who were difficult to redirect when in a highly aroused state. Once the blanket was tossed over them, they would immediately stop, wiggle their way out and I had a few seconds of "what happened!" to focus them on doing something else.

 

Personally, when training for a store where the training class was held in a tiny room we used noise (air horn, compressed air) to stop any first signs of a fight. These tools were used only and only in this circumstance and certainly not as a tool to stop dogs from misbehaving. It usually worked like a charm, especially if we caught the dogs before they had a chance to latch on.

 

When training two dogs, it is best to have one dog trained in an area, and the other in another. Since the dog left behind may rebel, it helps to give a stuffed Kong or other long lasting goody in a crate or confined area. This keeps the dog busy, prevents rehearsal of impatient behavior (barking, pawing at doors etc) and also creates a positive association with you training the other dog. Then, the dogs are swapped.

 

Does the barking take place at the cabin only or also at home? Is your other dog in the cabin too or is it just her left there? Have you ever recorded what happens when left home alone and watched it later on once back? Many rescued dogs show signs of separation anxiety unfortunately. Not saying that is what it is, but thought to point it out if this behavior happens when left alone at home. Many dog owners aren't aware of what happens when dogs are left alone until they are recorded.

 

Attention seeking barking, as Jennifer pointed out is fueled by attention. The dog barks, the owner plays with the dog. The dog barks in front of the food bowl, the owner feeds the dog. The dog barks when the owner watches TV? The owner pets the dog. All these behaviors reward the barking, fueling it and allowing the behavior to put roots and establish. Behaviors that are reinforced, strengthen and repeat. Behaviors that are ignored, weaken and extinguish.

 

Give attention when the dog is calm, if she is barky, totally ignore her unless she's barking because of a real need (like needs to be taken out to potty). Now, you may go through some extinction bursts of barking more (or trying other things) upon ignoring her at first, but that's just the final smoke before the fire is extinguished if you stick to your plan. Keep ignoring the more insisting barking and she should eventually understand that barking no longer works.

 

Now, if your dog is barking when left alone at home or in a cabin, while this may look like a type of attention barking coming from a needy dog, it can be a case of deep anxiety. This form of barking tends to not get much better by just ignoring (unless we take baby steps using desensitization), and definitely doesn't get better by scolding. This form of anxious barking is a dog who feels scared and the high-pitched barking is often similar in tone to when young puppies are left behind from mother dog. It's a sense of deep abandonment. In this case, behavior modification for separation anxiety is what is really needed.

 

Please make sure that behavior training classes are run by professionals using force-free methods. We don't want to stress stressed out dogs more than they already are.

Edited September 4, 2019 by Adrienne Farricelli

[hridika]

Yes, you are correct, they used to both greet us at the door, but now only Remie does and Hannah stays laying down in the other room. I watched the video archive on dogs fighting over attention and I think that will help a lot.

Barking only at Cabin with other dog there as well. I plan on recording her when at home and I'm at work, I forgot to.

I understand the ignore when the dog is barking, but then the husband starts yelling and I'd rather it all just stop, so it's hard.

Thanks, the classes are definitely positive re-reinforcement only, I would never use punishment on the dogs, especially a poor rescue that has already had a bad life.

[hridika]

I video taped the dogs and got 3hrs of footage and when I left for work (from the house) they just laid down, and didn't move at all. Not a single bark, the windows were open and everything. Not one single bark!

So it seems like she only barks at the Cabin. I got a thundershirt, and then took it back and got the right size. So I'm planning on using this. I put vests a lot like that one on them when I walk, so cars can see us, so it will be an easy train. It's just tighter and I'm going to ensure it's all good stuff when she puts it on. I'm going this weekend to the cabin, so can try it out.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Thanks for the update,

That's good news that both your dog seem to settle when left alone at home! That's very helpful.

Like Jennifer suggested, it's likely that the cabin is a place that your dog doesn't feel comfortable being in, especially if it's a place your dog doesn't go to often or that doesn't feel "safe." Many dogs would bark in this case, as they feel like they are being left behind from their "social group," their family.

 

It can also be a case of confinement phobia, if the place is very small, but then your dog would have a hard time staying in the crate. Is she crate trained? Is she is crated when left alone at home?

[hridika]

Hi,

She is crate trained, but I only crate them for eating, when they eat or when we eat. They are left out all other times. The cabin should feel like a big crate as it is 20feet by 20 feet, which is bigger than our living room that they hang out in during the day at the house. Another issue with the cabin is that the windows are higher and they can't look out at all, where as at the house, they have a big one they can look out. So how can I make her feel safer here? I'll try the thunder shirt first

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Thanks for the details,

Although the cabin may resemble a crate, it is missing several elements that make it feel like home. Your dog likely has little connection to it and being left in it emotionally destabilizes her. In some sort of way, it may feel like a child being left behind locked in a basement. So how can we help her?

 

With this type of barking (taking place mostly in the cabin) there is really no easy way to replicate this kind of setup to practice in other places where you can control variables to train a different response. Also, the fact that it sounds like you don't stay there for extended periods of time is a compounding factor because she never has the opportunity to acclimate to it to assume a sense of "home-base." Another compounding factor is the fact that your dog is prone to resource guard. However there may be some options to try (always with the aid of a professional since there are several complexities to keep in mind here). Here are some ideas:

 

-Keep your dog's routine as close to how it is at home as possible. During the days spent at the cabin, feed your dog at the same time, walk her at the same time, take her to potty at the same times so her routines are not disrupted.

-Bring along objects that smell like home that your dog enjoys. Your dog's water bowl, bed, blanket and favorite toys can help provide reassurance (careful if she guards toys, resting spots etc). Many dogs are also comforted if you provide them with a shirt that smells like you when they need to be left alone.

-Walk your dog prior to drain out some energy and tire her out.

-Acclimatize her to staying in a crate. Now, this may take come time, but it may help considering that dogs who are crated often lie down and dogs are less prone to barking when laying down. On top of this, if both dogs are taken to the cabin, you can provide each dog while inside with valuable, long-lasting goodies such as stuffed Kongs, bully sticks, bone marrow stuffed with peanut butter etc. Also, both dogs crated are safe considering your dog's history of fighting when in confined areas.

-Keeping the room dim or placing a blanket over the crate can help some anxious dogs relax.

-Try calming aids. Pheromone diffusers such as Adaptil or Adaptil collars and sprays can help some dogs relax. Some dog owners report success using Rescue Remedy. An anxiety reducing shirt such as Thunder Shirt or the Anxiety Wrap may help in some cases too (Jennifer already suggested that).

-If you want to work on the issue, this may take time and there are no guarantees this training may carry on to the cabin if the cabin remains a place she doesn't feel comfortable in. If your dog does well in the crate at home, you can then practice leaving your dog crated alone in unfamiliar places for brief periods of time. This is ideally done with the help of a dog professional experienced in working on cases of separation anxiety. Practice ahead of time crating your dog briefly in areas she's not commonly left alone such as in the basement, attic, yard, then progress in a friend’s house and start training your dog to remain calm in there despite the different, unfamiliar locations. (The course has a section on training your dog to love the crate)

-If you ever have a prolonged stay in the cabin, that's the perfect way to help her feel safe there and to practice. Start with very short absences and increase gradually over time, preventing your dog as much as possible from getting stressed. Use high value foods to give inside the crate during your absences.

-However, consider that the cabin may lose its sense of familiarity if you do not go there often enough to maintain all the progress made.

-The use of a baby monitor, Furbo camera or Pet Cube may help so that you can see what is going on when you are out and about. The Furbo camera has the advantage of allowing you to deliver treats to your dog. This can help a lot, but you would have to keep your other dog crated for safety considering that your dog is prone to resource guarding.

-All in all, one needs to consider, how much worthy it is to work on this issue extensively? Things to consider are: How often do you go there? How long are you away when she must be left alone? How bad does this impact her (is she in sheer terror? mildly stressed? very little stressed? Not stressed at all? Only way to know is to do a recording and see if she goes into panic mode or just barks out of frustration of not being able to come with you. Does the barking bother other people?(often owners of dogs who bark too much in hotel rooms are told to vacation in cabins as the rules for barking are more lenient there).

-For mild cases of frustration or very, very light anxiety, it may help practicing keeping your dog behind doors in the home and leaving very briefly. If the dog doesn't bark, you open the door and reward, and then rinse and repeat several times. When your dog barks, you don't open the door, you wait for your dog to stop barking to open and reward. She should learn that calm behaviors get her out. Of course, if your dog is prone to resource guard, you will have to keep your other dog away during this type of training. One aggravating factor to consider though is that if your dog gets used to you bringing treats often when she is behind doors or in the cabin, this may evoke resource guarding towards your other dog (just as when you are bringing groceries home) so better off keeping your other dog crated at a distance so she can't do that.

Edited September 7, 2019 by Adrienne Farricelli

[hridika]

Things were going great. Then out of no where, at the cabin, in the large area, Hannah spit up a piece of food and Remie just launched onto her. Grabbed her neck and was growling. I had glasses in my hands, so I couldn't do anything right away. It only lasted a heart beat, then it was over, no one hurt. but poor Hannah is becoming more scared and always looks for Remie before she does anything. Remie won't let her come down the stairs, won't let her in the bedroom. Always humps Hannah (which I always break up), but this is getting worse. Even trying to pet Hannah, Remie barks, even when i hug my husband. How do I make this stop?

[Adrienne Farricelli]

I am so sorry to hear about the incident. I was hoping you were using a crate to feed them food at the cabin as outlined in the tips above considering their history of getting into fights.

 

It sounds like poor Hannah is not getting hurt physically, but Remi's behavior is certainly leaving emotional scars. Hannah is being bullied and she likely fears now to do almost anything in the home. It is not fair for such dogs to live this way.

 

In such cases, strict management is important especially when feeding food and giving any attention. This means, rotating the dogs (taking turns with the dogs keeping them separated when you give food/ affection or other conflicting situations) and not leaving them together at least until you can get a force-free dog behavior professional to help you out in person. Aggression among dogs sharing the household is complex, and implementing behavior modification correctly is not very easy and it can put dogs and owners at risk too.

 

It's unfortunate, but sometimes two female dogs do not get along. Border collies (and mixes who inherit a lot of border collie traits) in particular can sometimes also have very controlling personalities towards other dogs. They also need lots of mental stimulation (brain games) and exercise, and when they are bored, they are more likely to engage in troublesome behaviors.

 

In a previous post, https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/forum/showthread.php?249-inter-house-dog-aggression&p=1209#post1209 a sample of a behavior modification protocol was offered when your dog was acting acting protective of you when you were sick in bed, how did that go? Were you able to find a force-free dog behavior professional to help you out?

 

A similar behavior modification program can be implemented with a dog who barks upon hugging. You would approach your husband and slightly hug (very briefly and with minimun contact) and toss treats, when the "hug" ends, no more treats. Then you hug for a little longer,with more contact and toss treats for the duration of the hug. If your dog ever barks, it's sign that you have progressed to fast and need to take a few steps back going back to slighter hugs. The exercises are repeated several times until you see the onset of what's known as a conditioned emotional response. In other words, your dog looks forward to you hugging because it means great things are about to happen (treats fall from the sky). This is based on the open/bar closed bar method: https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/open-bar-closed-bar/

 

As always, safety is paramount. A disclaimer is warranted here since we are dealing with several forms of aggression: caution is always needed when dealing with cases of aggression. Behavior modification comes with risks and therefore it's important to seek out the assistance of a dog behavior professional for safety and correct implementation. Muzzle training may be needed if there are risks for bites and a management plan is always advisable while awaiting the aid of professional.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Adrienne Farricelli

[hridika]

I do crate them to eat, but this was later and Hannah threw up a bit of food.

This did happen after a 3hr drive and only a short walk, so boredom could have been an issue. Usually they get 3 walks, 20 min, 20 min and 45-60min a day.

They do have many brain stimulating games, and are separated when they get them.

When I go to bed early, I shut the door, no dogs in the room, that way when husband comes to bed, they all come together, so I have eliminated her ability to protect me this way.

I have not been able to find any behavior professional in my area. You had sent me 2 links, but I live in Ontaio, Canada and they were for the States. I have asked around and found out who NOT to go to, and the only promising one is too booked and not taking new clients.

Hugging treats, sounds good, I will try.

I have muzzle trained her for the Chiropractor lady (once a month) and the vet, and would use for training if I can find someone.

Thanks for more great advise

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Glad to hear they were crated. It's so unfortunate that they had to fight over regurgitated food, but many dogs perceive it as still food even though it sounds gross to us. If this happens often shortly after meals, we may have to factor this in and therefore crate her for a bit longer. If this is something new, it could be she is eating very fast in fear your other dog gets to it. Often, eating fast is a main trigger for dogs regurgitating their meals. Of course, if it happens often, it warrants a vet visit as well.

 

It is awesome that you have muzzle trained her, as that's a great plus. All dogs should be muzzle trained regardless of temperament.

 

There are several force-free behavior consultants in the Ontario Canada area. If you put your zip code in this search page, it will pull up various professionals. Look for one specializing in aggression/behavior modification as not all dog trainers do behavior consults.

http://petprofessionalguild.com/Find-a-Member

 

Keep us posted on how things go! Best wishes.

Edited October 9, 2019 by Adrienne Farricelli

[hridika]

When at the Cabin this weekend, we had another incident. Hanna was under the picnic table and john went to get up and stepped on her tail, Hannah cried out and Remie, just attacked Hannah. Then not even 1hr later Hannah choked on a treat, I was training them to be laying down and quite, and Remie attacked her again. I was on her in a flash and nothing happened, either time, but this is very frustrating.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

I can hear your frustration. And poor Hannah must be living in fear now of being attacked just for choking or yelping out of pain. It would be best to keep them separated until you can get help. Have you had any luck finding a force-free behavior consultant to help you out? I am afraid that things will keep getting worse without the intervention of a behavior professional who can assess your dogs and decide what's best based on a thorough history-taking and assessment. Unfortunately, it is beyond the scope of any online program dealing with aggressive displays due to safety concerns and need for in-person evaluations.

[hridika]

Thanks, but I have not found anyone yet.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Did you try this form I posted last time? If you put in your zip code it should pull up an extensive list of force-free behavior consultants:

http://petprofessionalguild.com/Find-a-Member

[hridika]

I finally found a behaviorist to help, I went to one class with her. But we had a bad day with Remie, as she "attacked" (no contact, no damage, but tons of noise and very scary) 4x in one day! it was horrible. my husband wanted to put her down right then and there as hes worried about the other dog. The behaviorist stated that Remie should wear a cage muzzle all the time. I don't feel that's necessary, as it only happens when she thinks there is food around. (or a bug). It seems excessive, and not cruel, but not nice either. I have trained her with the cage muzzle for vet and chiropractor, but not for all the time use. It also only seems to happen when I'm in the room, not sure if that's a factor, but sure seems to be. Never when it's just john, or when they are loose all day in the house. What are your thoughts about muzzling her during the evening, when this happens. I have also noticed that it only seems to happen when she has not gotten enough exercise.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Hello Hridrika,

I was thinking of you these days and wondering how things were going.

 

Glad to hear you have enlisted the help of a behaviorist, hopefully you found one using force-free behavior modification. I was hoping she would come to your home rather than doing class with her, but sometimes they'll initially do an assessment/consultation out of the dog's home and then progress to the home or some just work from their clinics, so there's no rules set in stone.

 

So sorry to hear Remie attacked four times. I am imagining she attacked your other dog Hannah? How is she doing with your husband? Any improvements with that?

 

If ever thoughts of having her put down pop up, please consider that, dogs who are aggressive towards other dogs, are not vicious by nature, they often thrive in a home where they are "the only dogs." Sometimes, they may even do well with other dogs (like some female dogs do well with only males), so we can't rule that possibility entirely out.

 

So if worse ever comes to worse, there is always the option of re-homing with the help of a professional who can assess/screen the dog and potential adopters (make sure to disclose everything, even the fact she had a hard time with your husband initially and has bitten-she might do better in a home with just a female owner and without kids).

 

Just thought to point this out as sometimes dog owners may not be aware of this option. There are also many rescues who take particular breeds, but there are some downsides: one that, border collie rescues are often super full so some of them have to sometimes limit the amount of dogs they can take and two, the re-homing process can be very stressful for dogs, but steps can be taken to reduce the stress of it.

 

The fact that the fights seem to occur the most when you are in the room is not unusual. Statistics support this (that most fights happen when owners are around) and this can be because of several predisposing factors such as a dog that may be guarding an owner, or perhaps one dog may feel more confident in presence of the owner (either one) or it's just because dogs prone to fighting are not usually left much alone unsupervised or one dog owner simply spends more time with the dog. Sometimes, one dog may also be more preoccupied in presence of an owner and therefore "walks on eggshells" so to say.

 

Make sure to provide enough exercise, but most of all, don't forget about mental stimulation. Those border collie minds thrive on brain games, trick training and general training. Putting her nose to work can also be a tiring activity on those days when there is inclement weather outdoors. Treasure hunt games, food puzzles, canine nosework games (of course all brain games/training involving food is done separately from your other dog) can be fun activities for her.

 

You asked my thoughts about muzzling her all day, but I would need more info. Has the behaviorist suggested doing any behavior modification while she's wearing it or has she talked about doing any of that in the near time future? Has she suggested a particular type of muzzle (with all day use, we need to watch for chafing of the skin and how well she does- as one thing is wearing it for just a brief office visit, another thing is all day)? Is this a veterinary behaviorist? DACVB? CAAB? What are her qualifications (don't need her name or biography, just things like certifications/what school she has graduated from). This can help me better understand what the goals may be.

 

I commend you for your continuing dedication and determinism for working on this issue. It can be highly frustrating and even un-rewarding dealing with dog-to-dog aggression. This is something not all dog owners are willing to do, and the fact you are, shows how much you love your dog.

 

Thanks

Edited November 20, 2019 by Adrienne Farricelli