inter house dog aggression

[hridika]

Hi,

Sorry yes, it was the other dog and I believe that Hannah rolled in something that was making Remie excited, as Remie kept poking and smelling Hannah's neck, so I bathed Hannah, and that was the end of the fights.

She is great with my husband now (knock on wood). I know she's a great dog, and we have talked several times about re-homing her, but I can't. We have bonded and I know we can figure this out.

She has already been re-homed a few times, and I don't want to do that to her. She is finally showing affection for the first time (14months). I was crying in bed and she jumped up laid on my chest and cried along with me and pawed at me and kept this up until I felt better. This was huge for her as she doesn't like face to face and her nose was touching my chin or cheek. So I know for a fact she's a million times better now.

I have upped her exercise, as I have noticed that these fights seem to happen more when she gets less exercise. I also am doing treadmill training 2x a day now, as she's going to learn to love it. I hold a peanut butter kong and she has to walk and lick it out. I don't force her or leash her, as I want her to learn to enjoy it.

It's frustrating with this new trainer lady, as after one visit and my comments, the trainer is convinced she needs a basket muzzle on all the time, but i told her that they never fight with they get a peanut butter kong, or their geenies treates, or when they eat or when I'm training them with treats. She said she has rescued Border collies for 20yrs. So I kind of hoped she would be a good fit, but i'm not sure sure. She doesn't' seem to listen either when I say that there is no contact during these fights, just lots of noise. I'm not sure what her education is, I think just obedience and lots of agility training. So maybe not a true behaviorist. But I have a feeling she doesnt' want to see me anymore, as I questioned her advise, and a lot of people don't like that. oh well, too bad, it's my dog and I have to live with her!

I am starting to see Remie's signs right before it happens and know some of these can be fixed.

We eat only at the table now, so my husband doesn't drop food from the coffee table. - this was the BIGGEST issue that would cause a fight.

I don't play with toys or balls with them at the same time. - Found that out on Sat.

I ensure no dog food is dropped (to be found at a later time by Hannah) - Saturday as well

I am convinced that this can be greatly reduced with the proper training and exercise.

As all I want for x-mas is to keep my dog!!

[JMFS]

I know you're still having issues, but looking in from the outside y'all have made leaps and bounds in progress. I get your husband's knee-jerk reaction. I've had it with Momo a few times when he's attacked me. I think if I didn't know body language and when to press and when not to I would have certainly been bitten by now. Like Remie, it's a bunch of show and noise. Doesn't make my heart race any less, though! It's easy to say this or that when we don't really mean it, or maybe we do but then we calm down and things settle.

 

It's so very sweet that she had a good cry with you. I don't think any of my dogs would give two flips, not even Gertrude, if I were to cry. Time will tell with her, but I know Momo wouldn't, he's about as in tune with me a guitar without its strings! He's such a boy. Having said that, Remie must be quite intuitive and connected to you to have tried her paw at soothing you. That's special.

 

As for the trainer / behaviorist, if you're not warm and fuzzy about her then drop her. Especially if she doesn't take your input into account. She sounds like a brick wall and, again, looking in from the outside, you seem to be a level-headed and reasonable person so I doubt you've given her cause to shut down when you talk. Contrarily, in order to address the issues she should be asking for your input. I know it took you forever to find her, but if she's not going to listen and just do her own thing anyway it might be worth the wait to find a better fit.

[hridika]

Yeah, I agree, I have had issues with dog classes, with my red golden, I took her to puppy class and they lady would turn to me and say "Can you get your dog to stop barking?" and I'd say "That's why I'm here, YOU show ME how!!" that class didn't last long, and I"ll never go back. Same as the class I took Remie to, I was honest with them about my issues and her issues and they said that this class would be perfect, then it's a beginners puppy class? Why would they lie to me, I'm not going back! Sigh, but Remie is such a good girl and I'm not giving up on her, I'll learn and so will she!

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Thank you for the additional details, they are very helpful!

 

I agree with Jennifer, that Remie has come a long way. She is doing much better in several aspects and you need to pat yourself on the back for helping her out. You listed a whole lot of improvements she has made and with her history that's a huge undertaking!

 

I think the fact that this dog trainer/behavior consultant is suggesting a muzzle is mostly for management purposes and safety.

Here's the thing: when dealing with issues such as resource guarding, behavior modification can be instituted, *but* the "prognosis" tends to vary based on several factors. These factors can have an ameliorating or aggravating effect on the prognosis.

 

Examples of factors that ameliorate a prognosis are: the engaging in ritualistic aggression (all that noise made when dogs fight without an actual real bite occurring- basically dogs using their words), good level of bite inhibition (if the dog happens to bite, no serious bite wounds occur), early intervention (the earlier help is sought, the better), the predictability of the attacks and the attacks not occurring too frequently, a strong history of training, and the attacks not having much of an impact on the attacked dog (the other dog just shrugs it off without living in fear) just to name a few.

 

These positive prognostic factors don't rely solely on the dog, but on the owner as well, so we have to consider in the likelihood of success such as owner motivation, time and commitment to follow through, owner's compliance and ability to follow instructions, a supportive environment (where all the family is committed to collaborate).

 

As aggravating prognostic factors on the dog we have: a dog who skips ritualistic aggression and goes straight to attacking/biting (no growls, posturing, snarls), the dog bites on a higher level of the bite scale, a longer history of rehearsal of the problem behavior, attacks occurring frequently and unpredictably and negatively impacting the other dog.

 

Of course, some of these factors have more or less weight on the prognosis. With Remie, I think one of the biggest positive factors we have is the fact that, as you mentioned, it sounds like she never got to injure Hannah, but there are several other factors that make working on this quite a challenge.

 

The biggest I would say is the fact of the unpredictable nature of her attacking. OK, we know that she attacks when there is some resource around, but it's not cut and dried enough that it can be worked on in a systematic way behavior modification requires in order to succeed.

 

For example, if I was working on a dog who was seriously resource guarding in a specific area, I would have the dog muzzled for safety for the exercises and I would work on using desensitization and counterconditioning. So let's say Dog Alpha (the resource guarder) attacks dog Beta when Beta comes in the kitchen and there is food. Alpha attacks Beta because she feels Beta is a threat who will steal her perceived belongings. Beta may have never really tried to steal food intentionally, but if Alpha notices her looking in her direction or any sign of interest in food or in the kitchen area, she reacts defensively.

 

The exercises for working on this issue, might look like something like this (this is just an example): Dog Alpha is in the kitchen held by a handler on leash and another handler has dog Beta on leash as well. At first, dog Beta is walked at a distance where dog Alpha is under threshold (she sees Beta but Beta is at a distance where she doesn't feel threatened so she's rather chill). Every time dog Beta walks by, dog Alpha is fed treats. When dog Beta is no longer in view, food delivery to Alpha completely stops. Gradually and systematically, the distance is reduced. If Alpha at any time reacts, showing signs of tension, we know that she wasn't ready for that level of closeness yet, so distance is momentarily increased again, until distance can be gradually reduced again.

 

At some point, Alpha starts learning that food is contingent upon Beta's approach, so her emotions start changing. Since every time Beta is around she gets tasty treats, rather than dreading her presence, she starts anticipating it. At some point, you notice a change in her body language, her eyes are softer, her muscles relax and you even may notice a tail wag--you are witnessing what's known as a positive conditioned emotional response.

 

At some point, when the dogs are nearby each other, we can start feeding Beta a treat first, and right after one to Alpha. This helps Alpha look forward to Beta being fed because Alpha knows she will get a treat right after. If further progress is made, we may even get to the point of both dogs being off leash, Alpha being in the kitchen and anxiously waiting for Beta to arrive to join her in the kitchen to being given treats. With the owner doing several rehearsals of this, the kitchen fights are likely to reduce dramatically...yet, the innate tendency to resource guard might never be cured completely... so close supervision is always needed and maintenance exercises are need. Post continuing below...

Edited November 22, 2019 by Adrienne Farricelli

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Now with Remie, fights seem to occur quite unpredictably, leaving little space for prevention and knowing when, where and what to work on. It's not like the fights occur always in one spot and when the dogs are being fed or when the owner is preparing food. Rather, we have a history of Remie attacking Hannah over her regurgitating food (which we can never predict when it will happen), over bugs (which can enter the home at any time) and over smells (how can we know when Hannah will smell like something that excites Remie?).

 

So we have little control over these things which can happen at any time, unpredictably. We also have the fact that Hannah, as a mellow retriever, has a rather "soft" temperament and seems to have a hard time bouncing back from an attack, causing her to be emotionally scarred. And then we must consider that these fights seem to be occurring with a certain frequency (four in one day lately).

 

So we are left with a difficult situation and I think that may be what your trainer must have felt. Short of separating them and/or keeping Remie muzzled when together, there is possibly not much to do to prevent these attacks-but then, there is sometimes a shimmer of hope at times when muzzles are used astutely and dogs are supervised. If you decide to pursue muzzling, consider these general guides.

 

First off, it's important to emphasize the importance of creating a very strong conditioned emotional response to wearing the muzzle. This means lots of pairings with treats/play when using the muzzle and gradually increasing time. If we leave a dog muzzled for too long without the dog being conditioned enough to it, this may increase stress, and we know that stress increases reactivity. You may have to keep your dog separated from your other dog until she can wear the muzzle comfortably.

 

Next, something to consider is that it's important to ensure a proper fit (your trainer should be able to help with this) and the right type of muzzle. Some aren't crafted to be worn for extended periods of time. In general, you need a muzzle that allows your dog to breathe, eat, drink and pant. Panting is very important, consider that if your dog cannot open her mouth all the way (which can happen with a muzzle that is too small) she can overheat quite easily when it's hot or your dog is stressed or exercising. You also need a muzzle that your dog cannot get off.

 

Important too is to recognize the fact that muzzles prevent dogs from biting, which is every dog owner's worst nightmare, but they are ultimately just a management tool that won't do anything to change the underlying emotional state of the dog. For sake of comparison, using muzzles is sort of putting a band-aid on an infected wound.

 

This means, one shouldn't just relax and just let a dog be just because she's wearing a muzzle. Your dog can still hurt your other dog, your dog can still rehearse the problem behavior and your attacked dog can still suffer emotional repercussions, even if your dog is prevented from biting. I like to treat muzzled dogs as if they weren't.

 

It's therefore important to still actively work to redirect, train and ultimately aim to changing the behavior along with its emotional response- if this is feasible considering that, in some cases complete rehabilitation might not be possible (with some dogs, you just can't train this out of them). Without intervention, the aggression is likely to only worsen overtime. As the dog rehearses the attacking, at a chemical level, rehearsal may bias the synapses, allowing it to occur quicker and earlier each time.

 

Sure, considering the possibility that it may happen that complete rehabilitation might not be possible, you want to at least give it a shot, so once again enlisting the help of a dog trainer/behavior professional is important to see if you can work towards not needing a muzzle in the long run/separation in the first place- once again, if this is an option.

 

However, on the plus side, when your dog wears a muzzle, you might feel more at ease and comfortable, which your dog may sense and help her feel more comfortable too. You may feel more motivated to train her to respond to obedience cues in presence of your other dog, rather than being paralyzed from fear of an attack that may possibly lead to a bite. You may learn to recognize signs of tension and redirect as needed before she goes into a full mode attack.

 

One of my favorite ways to redirect at the first sign of tension is training both dogs to respond to a strong cue the moment a minimal sign of tension is noticed so to redirect them to something else. The cue is usually "cookie time!" where we rush to kitchen and both dogs are given a cookie (Beta gets cookie first, followed by Alpha), but in your case since your dog resource guards, it may be "yard time" or "let's go out!" as you rush all together in the yard or engage in some other activity that you know doesn't cause conflict.

 

Alternatively, you could train Remie to respond strongly to a cue such "leave it" or "lie on the mat" where each dog goes to their own mats placed at a distance.

 

Now to answer your question about muzzling her up all day, this is not easy to answer as there are lots of variables and factors. Muzzles are still a bit taboo, but more and more dog owners are embracing their use to increase quality of life when dogs suffer from being separated and doing crate rotates. Sure, lots of dogs are muzzled even when they do not have a bite history. I always muzzled all dogs I had at the vet for safety and many muzzle their dogs to prevent them from eating things in the yard or licking their wounds.

 

It all boils down to how comfortable she is wearing it (it's just an accessory after all once conditioned to wear it, just as calming shirts, Elizabethan collars etc)) and how much you can supervise to ensure she doesn't rehearse the problem behavior. It is always possible to not make it an all-day ordeal if you give give breaks such as when not muzzled and kept away from your other dog, so she can be in the yard with you, spending one-on-one time with you training in another room, enjoying some chill time in a secure crate with a Kong, napping in a play pen, in the yard without your other dog, or on a walk (let me know more about her problems with the leash and we can do some troubleshooting). It helps to have secure baby gates/extended x-pens as gates so no dog ever feels left alone/separated from the rest of the family.

 

It may be wise to engage her in pleasant activities when muzzled too so to make sure it doesn't predict something along the lines of "every time I am around Hannah, I am muzzled, so Hannah brings bad things along" considering how dogs are masters of associations.

 

So these are just a few ideas that you may want to discuss with your behavior professional. I also want to share with you a Facebook group that you may be interested in joining that is known as Muzzle Up, Pup! - The Pro-Muzzle Community. Here you will find a supportive community of dog owners keeping their dogs muzzled, and some of them even for longer periods of times. Also, look up the "Muzzle up Project" website. These may help you make an informed decision, weighing in the prons and cons, but I still feel you would do best with a behavior professional helping you out to determine what options if any you have with her behavior.

 

Disclaimer: behavior modification comes with risks. If your dog is aggressive, please use caution and consult with a dog behavior professional for in-person coaching, safety and correct implementation.

Edited November 22, 2019 by Adrienne Farricelli

[hridika]

I'm not sure if it's the full moon or what, but Remie went after Hannah all day again on Tues. I threw a blanket over them, and it made it words, Remie actually latched onto Hannah for the first time and I could not separate them right away. Thank goodness my husband was not home, as it was very upsetting. Same thing, she kept poking at her left ear and then going at her. So I bathed Hannah again. I'm really being strict with the "Leave IT" command with Remie towards Hannah, no humping, no hard playing. She's learning fast. But I FINALLY found a female canine behaviorist that uses Preception modification. She hopes to get me in asap. I will keep you updated. Thanks for all your advise, this is so hard as I know she's a good dog, but if she were to hurt Hannah, my husband would make me put her down. That would be the end of my marriage then as well. So I really hope this helps. I was so desperate Tues, that I went and got Dog CBD to hope to calm her a bit, and maybe it's the hip pain. I had her swimming for a while with massage, but I can't afford both right now.

[JMFS]

:( Poor Remie and Hannah. I'm also glad your husband wasn't home! I know all-to-well what it's like to live with someone (and sometimes to be that someone) who can't find a peace with an animal resident. My ex wanted nothing to do with Momo and would get irritated at any little thing he did. His cat constantly peed / sprayed on everything (including Me while I was sleeping once!!). Those two issues put us at serious odds and I'm hoping your situation turns out more positively than mine did.

 

I massage Momo and it help loosen up his arthritis. He was yelping at random times about 2 months ago and the Vet couldn't find anything. One day while I was bathing him I let the slickness of the suds guide my hands and I was able to work out a kink he had in his back leg. The yelping has since stopped. So, if you're comfortable doing it yourself, you can also offer massage and it's free that way. A heating pad or warm bath to soak in may or may not be an option for you, but there are a couple more ideas. We've been trying the CBD and honestly I don't see a difference even after 1 month. The Vet put Momo on Galliprant, which worked right away. Within 3 days he was no longer limping. Now we give it as needed.

 

I hope this behaviorist works out! When you find the right one it's Amazing so I'll keep my fingers crossed that you can also breathe a sigh of relief.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

So sorry to hear this. Please keep them separated or at least Hannah muzzled and supervised while you await to see the behaviorist. We are past the stage of throwing blankets/blowing air horns at this point since she seems to attack so unpredictably and with such determination and with such frequency. As mentioned, in the last post about muzzling/keeping dogs separated, management at this stage is top priority. The more she attacks, the more she rehearses the behavior and the more Hannah is put at risk. As mentioned before, chemical changes occur every time she attacks and the behavior puts more roots. If she has been going all day after Hannah, that's certainly not good:(

 

I am glad to hear Remie is learning fast and that you found a professional to help you out with behavior modification. Make sure all medical issues are addressed too as they can certainly lower a dog's aggression threshold. I imagine how difficult it may be dealing with all of this and you are commended for being so determined! Keep us posted on how it goes.

Edited December 15, 2019 by Adrienne Farricelli
typo

[hridika]

Hi, big SIGH, dog behaviorist is helping a lot. Girls are separated by crates, one in and one out, they are allowed together outside when they play, and they are walked together. I am doing several things to help Remie learn to relax and working on their relationship. Trainer states they can be helped and I don't need to get rid of Remie. Husband is happy as no one is fighting. Separation won't be forever as it's a lot of work and stressful.... but it's WORKING. i'm so happy, I can see the dogs changing already, it's been 6 weeks now, first few days were very hard, with lots of barking.

Remie is super suckey now and started to dream for the first time. She sighs prior to going to sleep as well. Doesn't bark for attention either. VERY HAPPY!!

[Adrienne Farricelli]

I am so happy to hear about this update! Sounds like you are doing crate rotations and those are working fine for you management-wise and that your behavior professional is helping a great lot and that you are starting to see progress. This is awesome! And so glad to hear your husband is happy with how things are working out so far!

 

The fact you mention Remie is dreaming now is also a very good sign as that means she's reaching those restorative REM stages. The sighing is also a sign I strive for in anxious dogs as it means they are learning to relax at a deeper level and are releasing stress hormones. Thank you for the update. Keep up the great work! Yay!

[JMFS]

That is Fantastic! It is a huge amount of work, and can be stressful, but the pay off is well worth it. I'm happy for y'all! Especially Remie - she deserves a life with someone who loves her so dearly. I'm all smiles over here for you!

[hridika]

I really have to stop posting here. Every time I say how we are getting better, something happens. She nipped john when he let them in from outside and she ran into her kennel (door was supposed to be shut) with her slip lead still not. He reached in to take it off and she nipped his thumb. Didn't draw blood, but SIGH. But we have spoken to people who have Border Collies and I can't believe how many times they get bit or nipped. One guy said when he does agility with them, they latch onto his arm or leg when they are done as they as just so wound up. So at least my husband wasn't too upset and is starting to realize that she's not a golden! so he actually wasn't too upset, but he's still scared Remie is going to hurt hannah. But the training is working, so far. and only time will tell.

[JMFS]

There will be setbacks as everyone learns how to communicate. I had several with Momo and the way I measure it is the length of time between setbacks, as well as severity. I can take his food dish now, but if I don't say, "more," before I do he's likely to have something to say about it. "More" means I'm adding something, like when the waiter comes by to refill your drink. If the waiter just reached across your face and took your glass you'd have words for him, but if he said, "let me get you a refill," you can give him permission and access.

 

In this case it sounds like everyone would have been better served to let Remie cool her jets and call her to get out of the kennel first. Especially since in the kennel she has nowhere to retreat to, she's trapped. I often think of this when I'm feeding Momo now that he takes his meals in his Igloo. He has nowhere to go if he's feeling uncomfortable so his only option is going to be to "use his words," as Adrienne says. I'm mindful about that and ensure my movements and voice are devoid of threat, which is sometimes a task because what We perceive to be non-threatening They can take great offense to.

 

It's extraordinary progress that he's not holding it against her! As time goes by she'll feel more comfortable and confident. :)

[Adrienne Farricelli]

So sorry to hear about this setback.

Behavior modification is a systematic process that demands a lot of personal commitment and changing one’s own behavior in order to modify the dog’s behavior. In simple words, it's a process that requires a lot of self-sacrifice. The process also entails learning more about a specific dogs' body language, the dog's spatial limits, triggers and situations that are more likely to evoke problematic behaviors. A plan should be in place to prevent the evocation of such behaviors.

 

I am glad to hear your husband wasn't too upset about this and that Remie showed a good level of bite inhibition. I would mention this to the professional you are working with so that she can suggest preventive steps/behavior modification and note it down in her chart. Remie has shown in the past that she wasn't comfortable with your hubby trying to hug her, and now she nipped when in the kennel and your husband reached towards her. These incidents have shown that she has a "space bubble" that she doesn't feel comfortable being invaded by your husband. I know your husband had only good intent, but that stretched hand coming in her direction was likely perceived as threatening to her just as when she was being hugged. With her flight option (ability to remove herself) not being an option, she therefore went into defensive behavior. In the future, it's always best to err on the side of caution in situations where one is not reasonably confident whether the dog will behave appropriately.

 

Sometimes, if one dog owner is more skilled, this means actively supervising interactions so that the other is told to avoid doing something that may be counterproductive. When working with dogs reactive towards men, for example, I often have to guide my helper (which is often my husband) carefully telling him what to and what not to do. It can be frustrating for the person being guided, but it's in the best interest of the dog and ultimately also the dog and other owner's/helper interest since a bite can put a dent in the level of mutual trust.

[hridika]

Update.

Hi It's been a while since I last posted. I have been working from home for 2 months now and the dogs love it. We were having a dog behaviorist come, but had to stop that in March. The training was exhausting and stressful, but well worth it. I have found out something big with Remie, the rescue. She is a sneaky bully. If I have to yell at Hannah for any reason, Remie just jumps right in and is nasty towards Hannah. So I have not yelled or raised my voice at all at Hannah and Remie has not attacked her since. Also the training helps. However, yesterday, Hannah was digging behind the shed after a chipmunk and trying to get through a goose berry shrub, which has nasty thorns, so I was yelling at her to get out of there. Sure enough, didn't Remie try to "attack" Hannah that night. I saw it coming and was able to grab her before she got to Hannah. I have also noticed that Hannah can tell when Remie is grumpy, she won't come downstairs and gives her lots of sideways glances. On these days, I watch Remie, very closely. It's  I still upsetting and I always feel bad, but they are dogs. I cannot control all their behavior and they have a mind of their own, with a past that I do not know.

But overall I am still so glad we kept her, and we do not have talks anymore about giving her up. We were at 13x talking about that, and every time, it tore me apart. 

She would not sleep in the crate at night, she would not settle down and barked and cried, so instead, I moved a long thin table beside my bed, and block it off with a small dresser. Her bed is in there. She LOVES it, I was shocked, she does need her own safe area and it's more open than a crate. But of course, the husband, still tries to stick his hand in there to say morning, well she nipped him. But he understood that it's HER safe space and she needs that, and he should NOT be sticking his hands into her safe space. she's also very grumpy when he wakes her up and she growls and sometimes barks. But at least I feel that he and the other dog are safe now at night from her weird bedroom moods. As long as he respects her space she doesn't nip him. It's hard for him to understand, because she follows him around, and want's belly rubs and pets from him. But she needs a safe space, and has her personal space. 

[Adrienne]

Hi Hridika,

I was wondering about you! 

I know from your previous history that Remie was attacking Hannah over resources and in tight spaces such as the basement, and even when she smelled something on her fur, so its interesting now that you point out that she gets upset on Hannah when you are scolding her. Sure, this further proves that she has a tendency to display Type-A personality traits and wants to play the "fun police" role which is typical in many controlling herders.. Not surprising as it mimics somewhat what they would do in the case of recalcitrant sheep who need to be herded!

I am glad you were able to prevent things from escalating.  I am thinking whether there can be ways to stop Hannah from doing things without involving the yelling. I guess it's creating some emotional arousal and putting Remie on alert. Perhaps consult with your behaviorist on whether you can train some sound that has less emotions involved to re-direct Hannah in her tracks so that Remie doesn't feel the need to intervene. 

The nipping at your husband's hand sounds familiar. I recall you stated a while back that he  once got nipped when he  reached into a crate or some other type of enclosure to remove her collar or leash. Sounds like you need to work on hubby too! Well,  that's often the case anyway. Maybe a big sign nearby her area to remind him may work :"Caution, Remie's space, no sticking hands!"

I am glad though that things are working out for you over all. 

Thank you so much for the update!

Best,

Adrienne

[hridika]

Remie is a strange dog. I still believe she is in some kind of pain still. I have her on CBD and Tri-ACTA. Yesterday she was on the couch laying across my husband, and then I heard her growl at him. He had started to pull her up towards his face. He froze. I said DON"T pull on her like that! I still believe that she does very much like him as she follows him around and does helicopter tail wags when get gets home. but she just has some weird issues we just don't know about. This morning still in her table top bed, my husband is getting ready for work and she's barking. He thinks it's because he work her up, but when I let her out of the area, she wanted pets from him and was so happy. but she still doesn't like it if he puts his hands in the area. I will never get a female dog again. I think she had a major bladder infection for a long time, but didn't show any signs of it. So she must have been in pain with that, then a sore hip and she chews on her one paw, and wants shoulder rubs. She didn't even want to go for a walk the other day. that was unheard of!

But dispute all that I would never give her up. She has started to nose bop me like my last aussie did, I have not figured out the meaning yet. but I think it's a great sign. She also dreams a lot more now that she has her special table top bed. We made her one for the cabin as well, as we just got up there for the first time last weekend. and she loves it. Doesn't bark at all when we have to go out at night for the bathroom. It's been almost 1yr 9 months that we have owned her. She lets me do things now that I never imagined she would let me. Since her bladder infection the vet told me to clean her lady parts after every pee as her pH was very high and it would help keep the bacteria down. When she sees me with the little bottle of vinegar/ water mix, she lays down and lifts her leg. hahah She's so smart she has figured out that it helps, or feels better, who knows. The extra yummy after treats help as well. I also spend time in her mouth looking at teeth and in her ears. It just takes time and LOTS of love.

[Adrienne]

Pain can play certainly a number on dog behavior, as it does with us. My dogs started to get a little grumpy among each other when they got older and started showing signs of arthritis. We tried many supplements and then stuck to YouMove from Lintbells, Bixbi Joints  and Hemp Chews  to help them out. Allergies can do a lot too with a recent study showing that dogs with itchy skin allergies being more prone to behavior problems. A healthy mind, in a healthy body. 

I am glad you intervened when your hubby pulled her up towards your face. If I recall well, at some point, your hubby got bitten once when he tried to hug her. It could very likely be she has some space bubble that isn't comfortable having invaded. It is good though that she is using her words, growling is communication and something that we never want to suppress considering that suppressing a growl leads to a dog who bites without much warning. However, all in all, she has come a long way considering her behavior around your husband before!

About nose bops, in general we need to look at the context in which it occurs and accompanying body language. It can be affection, a request to interact more,  play, and sometimes, in the case of muzzle punches, it may be a warning. A dog used to nose bop me when she needed to be taken out to potty. Another one did it when he wanted to be pet. It sounds like your dogs' nose bops are a positive manifestation. 

So heartwarming to hear all the progress she has made! The dreaming more, letting you clean her. inspect ears and teeth etc. I have a touch-sensitive dog at the moment and am working on getting her used to being groomed, teeth brushed, hair brushed, and having her paws touched in baby steps with high-value tasting treats. She is coming along nicely. Now when she sees the brush she runs towards me "groom me!" It is very rewarding working with these dogs!

You are so right, time and lots of love is what these dogs need. You are doing wonderfully and your dedication is admirable. 

Best,

Adrienne

 

[hridika]

Update- Things are going quite well. She LOVES her table top bed. It is much better than a kennel, as is is more open, but still keeps her in one area at night and she is safe. She is a funny dog. Almost 2 yrs with her. She really wants more attention from my husband, which is great. But she is still weird about close face to face contact and he still can't pull her towards him (she will raise her lip if he does). I tell him to let her come to him, and she does. I NEVER force her to do anything, if I want her off the couch, i just get up and move a bit and she then jumps off and I won't let her back on. No kisses either yet, but that's ok. I noticed that if we speak harshly at Hannah, Remie will pick on her. Like a bully's back up, if Hannah is in trouble, Remie's like "YEAH LETS GET HER!!" So I never yell at them for anything anymore. (to come inside, I just wave treats). She is still very attached to me and is still ways trying to protect me. She ensures her body is always between me and the other dog, which I will just gently push her aside when she does. I really try to not encourage it. I was hoping that by now, the 2 dogs would be closer and friendlier, but they just seem to tolerate each other. They do play though, but Remie always has her eye on Hannah, and if Hannah gets attention, Remie is jealous ( we are working on that).

 

[Adrienne]

Hi Hridika, 

Thanks so much for the update!

It sounds like she is doing overall well considering the issues you were initially facing.

To tell the truth, I didn't kiss my Rottweilers for most of the lives, it's just one of those things us humans feel like doing, but dogs in most cases care less about or dislike unless we condition them to enjoy them or at least tolerate them (and this is not without risks). I only started kissing my Rotties on the top of their head as they got older and just got this strong urge to vent my affection knowing they wouldn't be around much longer.

My female Rottie was fine with this, she's been pretty mellow and bomb-proof most of her life so I knew she would be OK with it as she has always loved attention and touch (as long as she wasn't given any shots as that was her biggest phobia!). With my male who was quite reactive when young and sometimes growled at me for doing certain things, I had to be a little more cautious, so I always made sure to feed him a yummy tasty treat as I kissed him to "forgive me" for wanting to be so close to his face, something he may have not understood considering that, as a species, dogs don't kiss, but rather sniff butts to say hello.

So it's quite normal for some dogs to have a tough time with our kisses considering that, when dogs place their faces so close to each other and make eye contact, it's pushing over social boundaries and sort of looking for trouble. Not to mention, their mouths are used for biting, so dogs may become defensive when we try to deliver a kiss because they may misinterpret our intent. It's not like we can tell them: "this is our way to show affection " and they magically understand. They just respond out of instincts.   

I can see Remie's behavior playing the fun police role when Hannah misbehaves. Sort of like dealing with some rebellious sheep that needs to be corrected and taken back into the pen. It fits a border collie's controlling personality well. I am not sure if you are still working with your behavior consultant, but has she provided any suggestions on how to deal with that and Remi's jealousy? I can see some form of re-direction working. 

I know you were hoping for your dogs to be closer and friendlier, but being able to tolerate each other is a very big step forward. I think if you didn't put the effort to work on these issues, your dogs wouldn't have progressed this far. Your dedication is commendable. Aggression left untreated, tends to get worse, not better and fights between female dogs can get really ugly.