Rescue nipped husband

[hridika]

So Remie, my border collie rescue that is around 3-4 yrs old and I had for one year. The other forum I state how she does not like face to face anything. My husband went to hug her this morning beside the bed and she nipped his nose, didn't break the skin. But now what do I do? We have had this conversation 5 times now, do I get rid of her. My poor husband has tried and she has barked and lunged at him. The rescue never told me she hates men. We have worked with her and she has bonded with me. I am so heart broken, as she is so good with me, but now my husband doesn't trust her and is scared of her and that's no good. But he knows that if I get rid of her I will resent him. I'm sure this is way over your pay grade, but I'm so lost. I can't force him to train her or spend time with her if he doesn't like her. Do I re-home her breaking my heart in the hopes that someone will love her more? What is the risk she may bite them, or she gets put in a worse home. They would have to be a single woman who is VERY good with dogs, what are the chances of that? I am so heart broken, but can I really put a dog over my husband? Can I force him to let me keep her while not liking her?

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Hi Hridika,

I am confused. Why did your husband go to hug your dog? My previous post discussed how dangerous it is do this as it may lead to a defensive bite. https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/forum/showthread.php?255-No-kisses-for-you

 

This is putting the dog to fail and there is no need really to hug a dog that clearly doesn't like it and has shown in the past a distinct dislike for your husband. This bite obviously will make things worse because now your husband has another reason to not want or like this dog and your dog has a reason to feel more defensive towards him because she was forced to an interaction she wasn't ready for.

 

Management is critical with these dogs. This means not exposing these dogs to situations they are not ready for. If management cannot be instituted when behavior modification is not taking place, then, I have be honest with you, things won't get better.

 

If you really want to work on the issue, it requires patience, time and taking baby steps so not to expose your dog to situations that cause her stress. If you know some of your dog's triggers, for example, your dog doesn't like when your husband comes near her or doesn't like it when he comes into bed, you prevent full exposure to these situations by creating distance and then work on creating positive associations. Now, with hugs and kisses as mentioned things get tricky, with some dogs you just have have to come to accept they don't like them and find other ways to show them affection that doesn't put them on the defensive.

 

I have provided some examples of how these positive associations can be carried out below:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/forum/showthread.php?255-No-kisses-for-you

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/forum/showthread.php?249-inter-house-dog-aggression

but as mentioned, behavior modification is something that you need to do with a professional coming into your home for safety and correct implementation.

 

Now, the *good* news is that this bite ended up being a nip without breaking skin, this shows that this dog has demonstrated some restraint, in other words, she has exhibited a good level of bite inhibition in a facial bite that could have ended up being much, much worse. So at least we know this. However, the big picture is that we want to avoid putting her in situations that put her to into the mindset of biting and even thinking about biting. The goal is to change her emotional response from "oh, no, this man is coming near me" to "oh, wow, I like when he comes near me, because every time he moves in my direction I get fed chicken!"

 

Now, if we allow too many setbacks to happen, we may reach a point where things may get difficult to overcome because her belief of your husband being a threat to her become more and more ingrained: "See, I was right, I cannot trust this man, he came near my face and held me tight taking away my only option to move away, so I had to defensively bite, so I am right to not want him anywhere near me or near my favorite owner (you), which gives me more reason to be reactive towards him."

 

So as you can see, this is the fundamental point. It is ultimately up to you to decide how much far you want to go on working with her and how much your husband can take tolerating the changes that are required for behavior modification to have a chance of success. Several of the steps I use when dealing with dogs who bark at family member entering the home were already mentioned in the thread I shared a while back. Notice how we carefully need to gauge the dog to prevent her from going over threshold and how me must manage things to prevent setbacks. I am posting it again in case it was missed, but obviously, this is just an example, as each case is different and requires an individualized approach:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/dog-barking-someone-enters-room/

 

If you need more details, feel free to keep asking, I am here to provide support, but when there is biting and general aggression, you really need in person help for safety and correct implementation of behavior modification.

Edited September 10, 2019 by Adrienne Farricelli

[hridika]

Thank you for the info and it is really sad how this happens soon after my "no kisses for you" post. I have warned him NOT to do this, but he is the kind of person that grew up with Goldens and loves kisses and cuddles. He just can't seem to understand she is a working dog (and was abused) and not a golden. He was trying to show her affection, and he just doesn't understand her. I need to remind him that he can show affection other ways.

I know that if she wanted to bite him she could have, so this was a warning and she didn't want to hurt him. But when he moved out of the room, she followed him and tried to get him to pet her, she knew he was upset with her and she tried to fix it. So she doesn't hate him, and isn't scared (most of the time) it's just she has triggers and boundaries. He has agreed to do training classes with her (but they start in 2 weeks), and I need to enforce that HE feeds her, and HE needs to do training as well. Since I am usually the do all dog person in our house. Both dogs see me as top person and my husband is not. Back to the can MEN be trained??? Can I send my HUSBAND to a trainer?? shock collar therapy?

[Adrienne Farricelli]

No shock collar therapy for dogs (and neither for husbands ;)) as mentioned, that will only make problems worse. We don't want to add more stress into their lives. Positive reinforcement (to reinforce desired behaviors) and counterconditioning (to create positive associations) is the way to go. And it works with husbands too!

 

I had to remind my hubby numerous times to not approach certain dogs in certain ways. Many dogs have a harder time with men because they may seem more imposing, they have deeper voices, often have facial air, move with more determination. Patricia McConnell says that dogs fear men often more because "men are seen as coming closer at higher rates or stronger intensity than women." Most dogs always readily accepted me, but with hubby we always needed extra caution. One wrong movement once got a dog hanging to his arm.

 

However, I understand that hubbies can get annoyed when we have to give them lots of instructions to not do this or not do that. So it's always good to counterbalance things with some positive reinforcement pointing out how appreciative we are when they do something correctly or just plain thanking them for putting up with us and the dogs. Things can get very stressful when a new dog is added and this dog needs lots of work. It takes lots of sacrifices, especially when we (or a family member) cannot do things we normally do in the home.

 

It is great that your hubby is offering to participate in training classes. With the right trainer (make sure he/she is force-free), they can bond together. It would be ideal though if the trainer is also a behavior consultant. Dog training is mostly about teaching dogs to perform desired behaviors such as sit, down, stay etc; whereas behavior modification falls more around fixing behavior issues and tackling the underlying emotions.

 

Sure, dog trainers can help dogs gain better impulse control and more frustration tolerance, but a dog trainer who specializes in behavior problems is a plus, especially if they have experience in reactivity/aggression. Make sure the dog trainer is aware ahead of time of Remie's space issues as having your hubby looming over her to train sits or downs can be problematic and alternate methods may be needed.

 

Perhaps, as a starting point hubby may be better off using capturing (rewarding spontaneous behaviors as they unfold) from a distance with a clicker with your dog off leash? Wait for your dog to sit or lie down and then click/reward accordingly tossing the treat to the dog. This is covered in the clicker training section of the course. Just a few ideas. Tossing the treat in a treat-retreat fashion comes to mind to form positive associations under the guidance of a professional. https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/treat-retreat-game/

 

Your dog likely doesn't hate your husband in the real sense of the word. She just may not be too comfortable being around him him and having her "space bubble" invaded so she reacts instinctively. So it mostly takes forming positive associations (through play, treat tossing, walks if she's comfortable with that-check with a professional, since walks involve invading her space bubble) more than showing them who is the top person or boss so to help them overcome their hesitance and fears. Here are some reads on some reputable organizations:

 

https://apdt.com/resource-center/dominance-and-dog-training/

https://avsab.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Dominance_Position_Statement_download-10-3-14.pdf

Edited September 11, 2019 by Adrienne Farricelli

[JMFS]

They Can be trained, though it's a little slower than dogs! Mine's been working with Abbi on her Insane (ear splitting) greetings when he gets home. He's following my advice on ignoring her until she's quiet and let me tell you, five days has made a Big difference. I can also tell you, firsthand, that with aggression issues it's night and day having a behavioral trainer right there walking you through it versus trying to do it yourself. Trainers see things we miss and that essential to the task. Momo's aggression is fear based as well and it took baby steps, but it was worth it. We do have backslides now and then (usually my fault), but our recovery time is less and less.

[hridika]

From "no kisses for you" topic to a nip, to an actual kiss! I can't believe it, Remie nipped husbands nose when he tried to hug her on Sept 10th, but yesterday when I got back from the cabin by myself and he got home, she was so happy, she jumped up and kissed him on the chin! she's one confusing dog

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Sounds like she was in her happy greeting mode and her excitement overrode her hesitations. It can also be sign of her feeling more comfortable with your hubby if you have started doing behavior modification. As great as this interaction is though, it's important to still protect her from full exposures or situations she's not ready for and keep on creating positive associations using baby steps with her under threshold. It's easy to get excited about progress and then take a leap and progress too fast, leading to a setback.

 

Some dogs indeed can be confusing, they may have mixed feelings about certain stimuli and situations within the same interaction or during other separate episodes. Even Einstein had once a conflicting situation where he was wagging his little nub eager to greet, but when this person bent down and made direct eye contact, for some reason he felt insecure, so he withdrew and even emitted a little growl. This was during his teenage flakiness period, luckily it was an isolated event, but it goes to say how sometimes dogs can surprise us in both good ways and not so good ways. It's also not uncommon for uncertain dogs to sometimes manifest approach/avoidance behaviors: https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/approach-avoidance/

 

How did her "cabin stay" go?

[hridika]

I got the thunder shirt and did training. I also brought a shirt I slept in all week for her to lay on. I also got a chew for both dogs that lasts longer than a few seconds. I think it worked. We left the cabin, and NO noise, when we got back to the cabin, no noise. She didn't finish her chew, but she seemed ok. I'm not sure the shirt works all the time though.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

If she was able to start her chew that would be good news as many dogs who are very upset of being left alone won't even touch food. I would count this as progress. The lack of noise is certainly something to pat yourself on your back about as it's sign you are in the right direction.

 

The Thunder shirt unfortunately isn't a cure-all, it's just meant to aid in behavior modification, and it doesn't work with all dogs, although it can help take the edge off in some.

 

I imagine both dogs were crated separately while being in the cabin and given the chew? The fact of being crated can play a big factor as dogs who lie down and kept busy are less likely to bark. If the crate smells like home, that also may help provide a sense of familiarity to a not-so-familiar place. So these are all benefits.