Advise on training tools

[JoanSmeets]

Hey there,

Since you have already helped me a great deal on another topic I was hoping you would be able to help me with something else.

Chester has been bitten a few weeks ago and after that he has developed some pretty severe reactivity towards other dogs. Fear is something we have been struggling with since we adopted him, and sadly it now manifests this way. We are working together with a behaviorist to work on these problems. My SO can hold him back when he is lunging, but because Chester's weight is closer to mine it takes me all my strength to keep him in one place. Besides that I have some complications in my wrists and therefor we have decided that a safe and pain free training tool/ anti-pull harness are a lot safer for both me and the dog.

This is only meant for me being able to hold him back when reacting to another dog, so it will not have to be effective to "teach him not to pull". It just has to take some of the strength out of the lunging. Besides that it has to be sturdy, because he is a pretty big Belgian Malinois. The behaviorist has mentioned some harnesses but I am having some doubts about them.
For one she mentioned a harness that is "anti-pull", but the introduction movie on the website mentions using nerve pathways to create a pesky feeling that makes the dog stop pulling. She told me that she had never seen a dog being visibly uncomfortable wearing the harness, but I am still having some doubts. Especially since his reactivity stems from fear.
The other harness she mentioned was a front clip harness, but when searching the internet I can find almost as much people saying that it did not work for them as there are saying that it worked great.

So I guess I am looking for some advise or opinions on the training tools described, or any advise that could point me in the right direction in picking a training tool that will help me along.

Thank you in advance!

[Adrienne]

Hi Joan,

I will be more than happy to help you with choosing a suitable harness for Chester, but there are many models and brands of harnesses on the market nowadays (and new ones being constantly added), not to mention there are different countries making different brands. If you could provide me more details (like the brands to compare to) I can give you my  personal input. I personally tend to gravitate more towards front-clip harnesses (like Walk your dog with love, Sensible harness etc), but am open to other types of harnesses if they can benefit the dog/owner. 

[JoanSmeets]

This overwhelming amount of options to choose from and the two sided reviews are indeed exactly what is making this so hard. The problem also being that I am from The Netherlands and most websites with brands available are in Dutch, so it's hard to give all information that are mentioned with specific brands.

The first harness, the one which is described as giving a pesky feeling to the nerves when pulling, is called the Mazter. This is unfortunately a Dutch brand with websites only in Dutch or German, so I have included a picture. As far as I understand the rings are supposed to be positioned exactly on some nerve pathways to give this feeling, and together with that it pulls the dog off balance. I don't know how harmful that would be exactly to the dog, because it is only mentioned on the product website and not on the websites of any distributors, who only mention the balance. The last thing I want is to make him more fearful.

The second harness the behaviorist mentioned is the perfect fit harness but she also mentioned that it is not an "anti-pull" harness. https://www.dog-games-shop.co.uk/perfect-fit-fleece-dog-harness.html While I am concerned that the other harness might bring some unknown discomfort for the dog I wonder if this harness is going to do the job it is supposed to do.

Because of the lunging I also try to steer clear of the harnesses that work trough tightening the front strap to apply pressure and the halti-type head halters.

I would not be opposed to a harness of any other brand that does what it is supposed to do, like front clip harnesses I can come by here in The Netherlands. I have tried researching how these harnesses work and if they would be helpful in my case but it is hard to find any information on how they work and why they do work on some dogs and not on others.

[Adrienne]

I hear you, it can feel overwhelming. At this point, it's a matter of picking one that does less harm to both of you and finding a compromise. It's a bit like selecting shoes, picking the ones that do less damage to our feet. As with shoes, you'll therefore find mixed reviews because there will always be people who are satisfied or unsatisfied with them. 

 

I think what would matter the most is that your dog is comfortable wearing it. Preferably, no shifting of the front strap, no compromised gait, no chafing of skin. It needs to be fitted properly.  A harness that has a Y design (the Y is how the straps appear if we look at a dog frontally) is known to be less restrictive to front leg movement compared to those that have a horizontal strap. 

 

I am not very familiar with specific types of harnesses sold in the Netherlands. I am looking at the picture of the Matzer type you posted but I am not sure about what's meant by the "pesky feeling to the nerves" produced when pulling considering that nerves are distributed everywhere on a dog's body and whatever tool we use (including regular collars) would compress nerves in some way or another. I would need to see the product website (Google translate may help me ) to truly understand what is meant by that. It could be they were referring to pressure points, but not sure. In general this type of harness (it has a horizontal chest strap so it would be classified as restrictive) should work by putting pressure on the shoulder area and tightening when the dog pulls. 

 

I am instead familiar with the Perfect Fit as it has been having a lot of rave reviews (along with the Balance harness) from my training colleagues. It's a Y design harness which means it is non restrictive, therefore doesn't restrict shoulder movement as the restrictive type, but still offering the control of the front connection. The double lead/two leads attaching to both the back and front ring enable more control allowing you to redirect your dog's attention back to you for training and treats. 

 

I can see where your debate stems from. I think it all boils down to this: all harnesses are just tools and are not meant to be a substitute for training.  So the ultimate goal is training and behavior modification more than reliance on a tool. 

 

In other words, since you'll be working with a behaviorist, you'll be taking baby steps and working on keeping Chester under threshold initially in areas of zero to low distractions. There should be minimal pulling in the process, and if it occurs, it should just be a reminder that the process needs to fine tuned to prevent setbacks. You will therefore have to go back some steps where he was comfortable and not pulling until you ace that level before going forward. Your behaviorist should be there for you to guide you though set backs and progresses.

 

So this to say that equipment alone doesn't teach a dog to walk nicely on a leash and not react. The goal is to ensure the dog feels safe and comfortable first and has mastered a set of skills and behaviors to fall back on so he doesn't resort to lunging and pulling when not sure what else to do. So you'll be working a lot on teaching him alternative behaviors for the rare occasions when distances may be misjudged and your dog reacts (too close to the trigger for comfort), but even if that should happen, you can count on a  tool that won't have your dog dragging you while also preventing harm to delicate body parts or pain to the dog (along with the risks for negative associations). 

 

I hope this helps clear things for you, let me know if you have other questions! 

 

Best Adrienne

[JoanSmeets]

We are indeed going to plan a few training sessions with the behaviorist, where we will actively work on his fear preferably in a controlled setting with another dog/ other dogs selected for the purpose. In the meantime we are avoiding other dogs the very best we can and if we are not capable of that we are doing a search game that the behaviorist has shown us (and has tested in the orientation consult) at the biggest distance we can create. I have to say that this has given quite some success already with dogs he is just unsure of and has no bad association with otherwise. We are still working on a sort of emergency turn.

The real trouble we are having is with certain dogs/breeds and in certain settings. For example there is a German Shepherd (he has been bitten by one so that's a huge trigger) he has not trusted from the start and his owner walks incredibly fast. We always seem to meet them on the narrow roads out in the fields and they will not slow down despite knowing our dogs reaction and the reason for it. Chester stops dead in his tracks and won't move and won't turn around (and if he does keeps stopping and looking back so conflict is not avoided by this). The only option I have in this case is take all my strength and just pull him along into a field as far as I can get before they pass us, but I can't always walk into a field and because of the dog being such a huge trigger however far I get is not far enough. The only other option to avoid this situation completely is staying inside of the town, which brings the problem of meeting more dogs and therefor creates more stress.

Because I only need the training tool to take some of the strength out of the lunging in these situations I tend to lean more towards the perfect fit harness. The loose leash walking is something we are training on a different way. I have indeed found that the ability to attach the rings on the front and on the back give more control. Some say that the dog wearing a front clip harness will pull himself back around and others say that it works by the ring being in the center of gravity of the dog and it can therefor pull less hard. I do find "gives more control" a little vague, and since I have not been able to find what exactly is meant by that I have still been hesitant to make a decision. Maybe if you could give a little insight on what "gives more control" means exactly I will be able to make this decision.

The website of the Mazter tool is the following: https://www.zterk.com/
I now noticed that they do not mention the nerve pathways in the written text, only in the video. So I have translated what they say about it here:
The Mazter works by irritation (not further specified) and dis-balance. There are nerve pathways located beneath the rings on the shoulder. The mazter will apply pressure here as soon as there's pressure on the lead. The dog will experience this as an unpleasant feeling and will try to avoid this feeling.

Thank you a lot already for the effort and all the information given so far!

[Adrienne]

I like your behaviorist's plan of working in a controlled setting using calm stimulus dogs for the purpose of behavior modification. I am too a fan of the emergency u-turn. I have a guide on training this here, https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/emergency-u-turn/ but stick to your behaviorist's preferred way of turning as each may have their own preference. 

I had once a client who had a dog who would also keep turning around when we would have a dog behind us that he would not trust. This dog though wouldn't stop much, just keep turning around and sometimes lagging behind. I used this behavior indeed as part of his behavior modification plan. If interested, you can see his case study here: https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/case-studies/03-homer-homers-reactivity/ Of course, stick to your behaviorist's plan though as every dog is an individual, and as such, often require a customized plan based on the behaviorist's observations. 

After looking at the Matzer model, I would tend to gravitate as well towards the Perfect Fit as it sounds like what you really need at the moment is simply a management tool to assist you during training/behavior modification.  I don't know what age your dog is exactly, but a recent study has come out showing that restrictive harnesses (those with horizontal straps across the chest) prevent dogs from extending their shoulders and elbows out as they do naturally. I know some veterinarians who now frown on them being used in young developing dogs. The study really seems to refer more to performance dogs more than the average dog just wearing a harness for a walk, but vets abide by the "do no harm" principle and it makes sense to use the least intrusive training tools as much as feasible. It sounds like your behaviorist has given you two models of harnesses to choose from, so unless he or she has valid reasons for you to pick one over the other, I would stick with the less intrusive one (Perfect Fit). 

I would be happy to provide information about the two-attachment points for harnesses, I am though a bit confused by this statement:" I have indeed found that the ability to attach the rings on the front and on the back give more control." which makes it sound like you are referring to a particular harness you are already using. If so, please provide me what brand that is as not all of these harnesses are created equally. For example, in some models, there's a martingale loop by the back hook which is meant to tighten when the dog pulls and the leash is attached to it. 

If you were instead referring to the Perfect Fit model I can tell you that when leash pressure is applied to the front hook, it  slows the dog down and gently steers the dog in your direction which provides you with the opportunity to give your dog attention and reinforce him for checking in with you. The rear hook instead helps stop forward momentum (of course, you must also stop moving for this to happen) and therefore works in synergy with the front hook (and training) when the leash is applied to both. With time, you should get a trained response to the leashes' effect.

Also worthy of pointing out is that, unlike some other harnesses, the Perfect Fit has no martingale loops that tighten on the dog's chest or forelimbs. Therefore there is no aversive or corrective (squeezing) when the dog manages to pull. 

[JoanSmeets]

I do hope that it is going to give the results we want for him, but we will have to see about that. He is such a friendly dog when able to meet the other dog and we just hope that we can help him cope and being confident in passing by if he does not know the other dog. It's going to take some work, but if I think back about how fast he learned to trust humans and males again after he came to us I still have high hopes.

It's indeed just meant as a little help for a 108 lbs girl to hold back an 83 lbs dog in the rare case that we are not able to avoid conflict. I have no idea what age he is exactly as he was left tied to a tree, but we do feel like he has grown and with a little logical thinking we feel that he should be somewhere around a year and a half. So if the perfect fit harness is indeed making it possible for me to handle him a little easier if I ever need to, that definitely has my preference over a harness that is questionable on a few aspects.

With the statement about the "giving more control" I was referring to information I found on the internet about front clip harnesses which did not really help me along. Your information has made it a little clearer for me and makes me a little more confident in picking the perfect fit harness. We do indeed already use a different harness (Julius K9) which only has an attachment on the back. This works great on quiet walks and does not seem to restrict him (even though it has a strap across the chest), but if I do end up running into a dog that is a huge trigger it ends up being a power struggle between me and the dog. Let's just hope that the perfect fit harness is going to make it a little easier and we will be able to help him along so he can gain a little confidence.

[Adrienne]

I am assuming that, if your Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist/ Veterinary Behaviorist suggested it, he/she expects it to work based on your situation and on what is being planned. Most likely, he or she finds it suitable for the set-ups being organized which should keep him nicely under threshold if done in a systematic manner. If you have any doubts on the equipment used, it's always a good idea to ask him/her so that you are both on the same page. There are other tools, but they can take longer for the dog to adjust to (like haltis) and not all find them appropriate. 

 

I find that, with dogs who pull on the leash due to reactivity, we often deal with two problems: the dog who is reactive, but also us humans, who, on the other end of the leash, start worrying about our dog's lunging and pulling behavior. This anticipatory stress of us not being able to control the situation, may travel all the way down the leash and can end up "alerting the dog" even if he was maybe in a calmer, non-reactive state. 

 

 I am also quite petite, so I can understand the concerns about equipment holding up our dogs in unexpected situations. I therefore find that the systematic setups are also helpful to help boost owners' confidence in walking dogs, knowing that it is possible to handle better the situation combining training the dog to become more responsive, while us humans are learning to relax more.

 

 The good thing about behavior modification is that it aims at not exposing the dog to situations he's not ready dealing with yet. It goes at the dog's pace. By working at our dog's pace and training responsiveness in our dogs, we therefore have the opportunity to learn to relax too and start breathing, since many of us tense up and often hold our breath when we see another dog pop out of nowhere. The use of more suitable equipment, training and behavior modification, along with a back-up plan such as an emergency u-turn or treasure hunt game can help us feel calmer and  potentially succeed in unexpected situations. Make sure though to stay on top of your behaviorists' recommendations, he or she may suggest to initially not go on walks where triggers may pop out of nowhere (other than the systematic set-ups) your dog is ready for that. 

 

If it helps you feel better, the Julius K9 does a rather poor job in holding a dog who is lunging. The leash clipped on the back used on its own makes it more difficult to control the dog. With a front-attachment harness you have the mechanical advantage of the dog rotating in our direction rather than us directly opposing a forward force. In other words, with the clip only on the back (with no front attachment) we're looking at dogs being given the opportunity to use their body weight more to pull more effectively. Therefore such configuration makes dogs more comfortable to pull into compared to other configurations.  

 

Good luck on your upcoming session, keep me posted on how it goes!

Best,

Adrienne

[JoanSmeets]

We did end up getting the Perfect Fit harness on Tuesday and he does not seem bothered by it at all. I have noticed that it is a little easier to pull him away from things he is not supposed to go to. In addition to the harness and the training we have also been giving him a powder that is stress-reducing, recommended by the behaviorist. We have been avoiding dogs on walks, but I have also found myself in situations where I had no way out and so far he has been reacting less than I am used to. He only growled at a dog he can't stand from the beginning instead of the full out barking and lunging he would normally have done at the distance we were at. And that even before real training, so I am starting to feel a little more confident that we are going to be just fine.

We had our first training yesterday and he did really well, even though we did the training with a dog he met one time before and a small dog which he is not that impressed by. To step it up a little our behaviorist will bring a bigger sized dog next time. We do think that the training has been a little much for him since he was restless at night and this morning he threw up his food, so we will run that by her before making another appointment.

[Adrienne]

Hello, thanks for update!

I am glad to hear that your boy is doing fine with the harness and that you have noticed it's easier to control him in specific circumstances. I am also glad to hear that he seems to be reacting less which is certainly a big plus, especially considering that you have just started working with him.

It is good to start with dogs who he is less reactive towards (either because he knows them or they are small/less intimidating) and then gradually raise criteria and move on to dogs who may pose more challenges. I have even started with fake stuffed Rottweiler dogs as stimulus dogs, prior to letting dogs meeting my own dogs at a distance. Slow and steady wins the race in behavior modification. This is all prep work to get you and your dog more comfortable and start building some foundation work. 

I am sorry to hear that your dog got sick and was restless last night. Could the new powder been a culprit? Or maybe new treats? Did he seem stressed during the session? Perhaps the stress/arousal made him produce too much acid. Poor Chester, I hope he feels better soon! 

[JoanSmeets]

Yes, I feel that the powder is doing a good job in helping him cope with his stress levels. That way he can hopefully get even more out of his training, even if he is doing better than he was now.

I do indeed feel that it was a good choice to start with mild triggers, even though I still get the idea that we overdid it a little. The powder had been given at least for 5 days already before the puking incident and there are no new treats. I think that the training session had been very stressful for him even though he seemed to be quite calm. We have ran this by the behaviorist and she agrees with us that we might have overdone it a little. Next session will be with a larger dog, but we will keep it at one dog and spend the remaining time on working on getting in the car and driving.

He sadly threw up again this morning (this time before breakfast) and he seems to be getting quite a few episodes of reversed sneezing lately. Since we ordered the wrong food last month (normal Hill's i/d instead of the sensitive) and we are now back on his normal prescription diet we will be seeing if this is will change anything. If things aren't better by sunday we'll have to see if the vet can find anything. We were already planning on this anyways since he seems to have irritated eyes.

[Adrienne]

Poor Chester, I hope his GI system gets back on track. Stress can certainly make a sensitive tummy go topsy turvy. 

Best of luck for his next session with the larger dog!