How to know if older dog corrections with pup are ok

[Mary]

I have 9 yr old male lab and 13 week female lab pup. I am needing guidance as how to gauge how things are progressing between them. I’ve had pup for 6 weeks. I would say that older dog is at a tolerating stage with pup. He frequently corrects her thruout the day. His corrections vary from a lip twitch to a snark. A snark being baring teeth and making noise but has not bitten her. He does this mostly as far as I can tell,when she gets too close when she is being too puppyish.He will not allow her touch him. For example, in the morning when she is happy to see him, he is not welcoming of her puppy exuberance. Another instance is going out doors, it is all just too much excitement. He will though when she is chewing quietly on a toy or sleeping on floor choose to sleep with in inches of her. Of course, she does very rude things to him like bark at him and want to jump on him, I totally get it. With adult dogs, he has always been extremely tolerant of behavior he is not a fan of, he is not very interested in playing with adult dogs but on occasion he does meet one that he hits it off with and will play. I’ve rarely seen him correct an adult dog it’s happened a couple times and it was warranted and has never bitten. I am taking each dog separately outside to train and play.Pup goes to puppy kinder. I confess to not addressing some behaviors of older dog like barking for attention and demanding. But working on that. But he also has things he does very well. This dog was a  handful when he was a pup, extremely busy, hard to calm down,He does however LOVE training. I am trying to treat reward anytime I see him letting her be near and I treat her as well.

[Adrienne]

Hi Mary, 

Welcome to the forums,

I understand your concerns in regards to the interactions between your puppy and older Lab. 

Has you Lab by any chances seen the vey recently? Does he have any medical conditions that you know of? Just checking because many older dogs may struggle with pups and an aggravating factor is often osteoarthritis (achy joints) which can make them a little more intolerant than they normally would be. 

What happens by the door area? Does he correct her for wanting to go out first? 

Also, how does your puppy react when she gets corrected by him? Does she seem to care less? Apologetic? Fearful body language? Does she ever roll over in fear and pee? 

Thanks for the additional details. 

 

[Mary]

Just so happens yesterday I noticed older dog had a very red itchy ear. So I am treating that after a call to my vet. He was at the vet at beginning of summer,clean bill of health. He seems to move around without any signs of stiffness etc and still at the age of 9 gets the zoomies. 
I think he is correcting her because she is on the leash and is she is super excited to go out and he is too. And I have not been a good at figuring that out but I started  working with him to have a more calm exit out the door once it opens . He doesn’t get excited before the door opens,it’s after. I this morning had him sit while I opened door and puppy and I went out first and then he followed. There were no issues. Should I hold her back and let him go first?
Puppy after getting corrected has different responses. Sometimes she barks at him, sometimes she doesn’t seem to care, sometimes she does seem apologetic, a couple times she has ducked her head and afraid but she has never rolled over or peed.

[Adrienne]

Thanks for the extra details, they are very helpful!

In general with older dogs correcting puppies we need to balance out things so that our puppy doesn't pester the older dog too much and that the older dog isn't too harsh in his corrections so that he doesn't leave the pup frightened or even traumatized. This therefore requires a delicate balance. 

 The good news is that some good adult dogs will give young puppies some leeway when they misbehave, granting them what is known as a "puppy license." However, enough is enough, and sometimes older dogs' patience will run low and they'll feel the need to give out some "lectures." Mother dog may have already imparted some of these lessons herself, but puppies may just "try" with older dogs.  So after the older dogs try to walk away unsuccessfully from a boisterous pup, their teachings may go up to the next level involving growling and showing the teeth.

In most of these cases, the aggressive display is mostly ritualized. Ritualized aggression takes place because dogs tend to be natural conflict-solvers. To prevent conflicts, dogs therefore should instinctively rely on their body language, which is ultimately a way to prevent true fights from occurring. 

Now, many pups may get the lesson and may therefore understand when an older dog is not in the mood for play and is asking for space or to be left alone. Puppies at this point may get the message and stop pestering, walk away with their body low or may even deliver an apology, by rolling over their back, and possibly, urinating submissively to prove their innocence. 

However, some pups can be quite persistent and may not get the message clearly. When this happens, this may lead to the older dog further escalating into something along the lines of: "What part of my signals, do you not understand?" I said back off!" This may lead to the older dog snapping or even delivering a (hopefully!) soft, inhibited bite to make the point. 

Sometimes, puppies at this point may yelp or whimper, but in most cases, fortunately these pups are not hurt, they are just startled and telling the adult dog to please not hurt them. It's important though to keep an eye and make sure the young pups don't appear emotionally traumatized. Now, some adult dogs make great teachers dogs, they call them "Nana dogs" while others may not be too cut for the role and get truly stressed and defensive. 

It sounds like overall your dog is engaging most of all in ritualized displays and that he is doing a good job using his words. Your puppy, on the other hand, seems quite resilient in handling his lectures, although we may want to prevent putting them into situations that may escalate.. So we need to keep an eye on situations where things seem to escalate and intervene as necessary. 

For example, if he's not too eager to be greeted by her in the morning, it may help draining a bit of her excess morning energy first and perhaps keeping her on leash the very few minutes she sees him and unleashing her once she seems calmer. If she greets him calmer (which should make him less grumpy), make sure to praise both for the smoother introduction. 

Now, ear issues can surely make dogs quite grumpy and may lower a dog's threshold for reacting, so you may need to manage your pup these days until his issue resolves. 

In regards to the behavior around the door, if you have seen that having him sit and then calling him out has helped, you can keep doing that. If it's not broken, why fix it? Make sure though to praise him/reward him for being nice and willing to wait  so he doesn't develop hard feelings about her getting out first with you. However, I would also want to aim in teaching the pup to be less excited too which can act as a trigger in future instances. You can teach this separately from him initially, so that, with time, you can have her act calmer (and hold a sit too) when you take both out the door so that there's no longer reason to leash her. 

Here's a general guide for training more impulse control at doors:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/college/open-sesame/

Happy training!

Best,

Adrienne

[Mary]

Thank you so much for the great explanation and link! I appreciate it greatly?

!

[Adrienne]

You are very welcome. Keep me posted on how things go, and I am here if you have any questions,

Best,

Adrienne