Dog Biting

[DeniseButler]

My 90 lb dog got loose today and attacked a smaller dog that was being walked by it’s owner. He has never done this to another dog, ever! I’m devastated as I don’t want my dog taken away from me. 
I am desperate to get him trained and it seems I’m not doing a good job as he’s not doing well with the come command or walking on a leash when he sees another dog. I have sustained from taking him on walks and have to chain him up in the yard from jumping the fence when he sees a dog walk by. I tried one on one training but they came down with COVID and then never came back. Please I need suggestions. I’m afraid to take him to training as he will be hard to get in the door with other dogs there as I’m not sure what he might do. He’s good with dogs his size when their one on one but obviously not with smaller dogs. 

[JMFS]

I'm so sorry that happened.  I'm going to say the fact that he's good with other dogs his size is a good sign.  If he were fully dog aggressive it would be a steeper hill, but still climbable!  I think there will be questions needing answers before Adrienne can give a well-informed answer so I'll try to help with getting that started.

- Is he the only dog

- Is he neutered and how old is he

- Were y'all on the same side of the road as the other dog or was there distance between y'all

- Was there damage to the other dog, or was it mostly noise? (Puncture wounds, blood, or mainly snarling and growling)

- Was there any food or another resource nearby that could have contributed?

- Was the other dog interacting before the attack? (Eye contact, tense body, barking, growling, etc . . . )

- Is this the first attack?

- What does he do when another dog walks by the fence?

There's much work that can be done solo before interacting with other dogs so take heart.  :)  Dog fights are scary - we've had a couple amongst our usually loving pooches ourselves (they're all protective of their food from one another) and those sounds are just awful!  The fact that you're willing to train instead of rehoming him is Fantastic so give yourself credit for being brave and proactive on behalf of your pooch.

I'll leave it at that and hope I asked all the pertinent questions, though Adrienne may have more.

[DeniseButler]

My dog attacked her dog as soon as he saw it. She was walking 2 dogs and mine was attacking both but punctured the skin and drew blood on one of them. She was able to get her dogs in a friends car as I was trying to get the collar and leash on mine as he got out of both when he jumped the fence. 
 

Mine is the only dog and is neutered. He just turned 2 in February. He hasn’t had much interaction with small dogs at all so I don’t know if he thinks of them as chew toys or what as he’s never attacked before and only plays with dogs his size. The woman told me she would call from the vet but haven’t heard anything at all only a visit from the police and expect animal control tomorrow. She never let me see her dogs wounds so I don’t know how bad they are, I only saw blood on my dogs tongue. I’m not saying there weren’t any wounds but I believe I need to see pictures before they say they might need to take my dog away from me. I am so sad as I don’t know what to expect. I know I need training for Tito for walking so this won’t happen again but haven’t been able to find someone to help me as every place is so expensive and I’m not working and afraid if I find someone he might do it again if there are small dogs present. I’m at my wits end. 😢😢

[JMFS]

l know it's scary!  My best friend's dog bit her mom (mom is deaf and tried to pull Chester off the bed by his collar - didn't hear his growling) which caused a hospital trip and he's still living with my friend so don't get Too worked up!  Animal Control took him for a 3 or 5-day quarantine period during which my friend was a ball of nerves.  It's a super stressful situation, but I think when they see you're trying they'll give you a break.  They may even be able to suggest trainers for you so it Could turn into a good thing.  The fact that all dogs survived is a tick mark in the pros column.  You had Tito on leash so there won't be a fine for off leash.  You may be responsible for Vet bills, but beyond that I can't see them hitting you with anything else if Tito doesn't have a bite record.  Have your vaccination records ready as well.

I think one thing that will be suggested is the emergency turn.  That's when you're walking him on the leash, see a small dog and say something like, "oops," and turn around to walk the opposite direction.  Another thought that comes to mind is that there are vests you can get that warn others your dog needs extra space.  If possible, walk him at times when there is less traffic.  I tended to walk Momo just after dark because he was a hyper pita.  :D  It was easier for me to walk him without other dogs around because even at a mere 34 pounds that boy is all muscle and Strong.

https://smile.amazon.com/munglab-Not-Patch-Harness-Leash/dp/B07F71FP8R/ref=pd_bxgy_img_2/137-7611886-3650752?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B07F71FP8R&pd_rd_r=c388ac6d-b038-43c6-af26-4e1572f03566&pd_rd_w=AdFeQ&pd_rd_wg=Y9Ffu&pf_rd_p=f325d01c-4658-4593-be83-3e12ca663f0e&pf_rd_r=DJB7T9TEDK357E00B5FR&psc=1&refRID=DJB7T9TEDK357E00B5FR

https://www.etsy.com/listing/167352345/jacket-vest-for-dogs-working-on-issues

Something like those - it gives others a bit of warning.  I saw on a forum years ago that tying a piece of yellow yarn or ribbon on your leash is another way to signal that your dog needs space.  I saw something I really liked on a video and it was a girl explaining that just because her dog needs extra space and doesn't like to be approached doesn't mean he doesn't deserve a quality life.

The other dog owner was likely shaken up as well and was thinking only of getting her pups to safety rather than taking stock of wounds.  Dog fights / attacks sound horrifying and even with my dogs who have been with each other for 2½ years now my blood gets pumping and the adrenaline leaves me shaking.  It's entirely possibly she got home and the wound wasn't as bad as it seemed (even small head wounds bleed like crazy, for example).

Get some rest so you're ready for that visit tomorrow.  I'm sure they'll see a responsible owner who needs a bit of guidance.  They're in the business of helping animals, not hurting them.  <3

[DeniseButler]

My dog attacked her dog as soon as he saw it. She was walking 2 dogs and mine was attacking both but punctured the skin and drew blood on one of them. She was able to get her dogs in a friends car as I was trying to get the collar and leash on mine as he got out of both when he jumped the fence. 
 

Mine is the only dog and is neutered. He just turned 2 in February. He hasn’t had much interaction with small dogs at all so I don’t know if he thinks of them as chew toys or what as he’s never attacked before and only plays with dogs his size. The woman told me she would call from the vet but haven’t heard anything at all only a visit from the police and expect animal control tomorrow. She never let me see her dogs wounds so I don’t know how bad they are, I only saw blood on my dogs tongue. I’m not saying there weren’t any wounds but I believe I need to see pictures before they say they might need to take my dog away from me. I am so sad as I don’t know what to expect. I know I need training for Tito for walking so this won’t happen again but haven’t been able to find someone to help me as every place is so expensive and I’m not working and afraid if I find someone he might do it again if there are small dogs present. I’m at my wits end. 😢😢

I just spoke to owner of the other dog and she won’t be calling animal control as she knows how we all out with our pets and knows Tito meant no harm and not sure if her dog didn’t give a signal to say hey let’s fight! She’s could tell I was a responsible dog owner and felt Tito wasn’t an aggressive dog just maybe had a lot of energy he needed to release. I’m hoping I can get him the help he needs to be around dogs without getting so excited! Any suggestions would be great. 

 

 

[Adrienne]

Hi Denise, 

Welcome to the forums. I am sorry to hear about what happened, it can be heartbreaking, but things could have gone much worse. It sounds like your dog escaped the fence  and went to attack two small dogs. 

What kind of fence do you have?

Was he chained up before he escaped the fence to attack the small dogs?

What breed is your dog?

What kind of equipment are using currently for walking him?

What does he do on walks when he sees other dogs?

Animal control won't likely take your dog from you for such circumstance, but they may investigate the bite case, ask questions about your dog and check your fencing while likely making recommendations on ways for preventing your dog from running at large from now on. They may also recommend muzzling your dog when out and/or hiring a trainer to prevent future accidents.

 

[DeniseButler]

My dog attacked her dog as soon as he saw it. She was walking 2 dogs and mine was attacking both but punctured the skin and drew blood on one of them. She was able to get her dogs in a friends car as I was trying to get the collar and leash on mine as he got out of both when he jumped the fence. 
 

Mine is the only dog and is neutered. He just turned 2 in February. He hasn’t had much interaction with small dogs at all so I don’t know if he thinks of them as chew toys or what as he’s never attacked before and only plays with dogs his size. The woman told me she would call from the vet but haven’t heard anything at all only a visit from the police and expect animal control tomorrow. She never let me see her dogs wounds so I don’t know how bad they are, I only saw blood on my dogs tongue. I’m not saying there weren’t any wounds but I believe I need to see pictures before they say they might need to take my dog away from me. I am so sad as I don’t know what to expect. I know I need training for Tito for walking so this won’t happen again but haven’t been able to find someone to help me as every place is so expensive and I’m not working and afraid if I find someone he might do it again if there are small dogs present. I’m at my wits end. 😢😢

As soon as the weather permits I’m having a privacy fence installed. He had a leash on but heard the dog next door which they don’t get along and ran from me before I could put him on the tether in the backyard and jumped the 3 foot fence we have and bolted from there from their yard and down the street and saw the two dogs.

I’ve talked to the owner today and she doesn’t want to call animal control as the vet told her it’s up to her to call. I’m just paying the vet bills for her animal. I am looking into further training but everywhere seems to be booked up. I can’t walk him as he lunges when he sees other dogs and I can’t control him as he’s 90 lbs. and I’m 145. What can I do?

 

 

 

 

 

[Adrienne]

OK, yes, getting a secure fence is a very important step. Actually, the most important one for now. We can't allow a dog that has the potential to harm other dogs escape anymore like that. You will have to have a fence that is high enough that he can't jump over and it needs to not have any "toe holds" that he can use as a grip to climb over. You also need to make sure he can't dig under. 

As for training, you can start with some basics and hold off walks for now until you have better equipment to walk him and he's more responsive you you. I would give him a couple of days to decompress from the stress and do low impact stuff like brain games, and then in the next days, you can start by training a strong response to a smacking sound which can be your foundation for the "Look at that Exercise" done starting in the home upon spotting any mild triggers from a window, then once you have a good response, you can practice out in the yard (preferably when you have it securely fenced) and then finally on walks once he's better under control.

Here is the smacking sound:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/the-airplane-game/the-smacking-sound/

Here is the Look at that exercise:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/university/look-at-that/

Exercises such as look at that and open bar/closed bar (https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/open-bar-closed-bar/) are based on two powerful behavior modification concepts, that is desensitization and counterconditioning. 

In desensitization, one takes small baby steps in exposing the dog to its triggers in a systematic, structured way so that the dog does not react fearfully to the stimuli and is able to take treats. If you overwhelm and flood a dog exposing her to full intensity situations, you risk sensitizing her, which means you make her more reactive and more fearful. To learn more about desensitization read here: https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/desensitization/

In counterconditioning,  the goal is to change a dog’s emotional response by using treats or anything the dog finds rewarding. The moment the dog sees the threatening stimulus at a distance where she is calm,  she is fed treats, the moment the threatening stimulus disappears, no more treats.  The goal is to make it clear that great things happen when trigger is in sight. Read more on desensitization here: https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/counterconditioning/

When we create positive associations and work diligently, we aim to create what's known as a positive conditioned emotional response, from disliking dogs, to looking forward to seeing them. Here is a description of this. 

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/conditioned-emotional-response-cer/

Once we have a strong response, we can start applying these exercises on walks and even train the dog to respond to our smacking and perform several steps of attention heeling upon spotting other dogs:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/obedience-101/heeling-attention-heeling/

However, this takes time to master, so in the meanwhile when dogs are coming our way and we don't have enough distance we can rely on what Jennifer mentioned already, that is, the emergency u-turn:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/emergency-u-turn/

And we always need to pay attention to our dog to ensure that he's not sent over threshold:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/threshold-levels/

Now equipment-wise, since he's a large powerful dog, you can try a front-attachment harness ( like the Perfect fit) or even a head halter (which requires an adjustment period, but it's worthy as it gives you extra control of the head area). 

I would also aim to muzzle train him to add an extra layer of protection on walks:

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/video-archive/train-your-dog-to-wear-a-muzzle/

I know this is a lot to absorb. With dogs who attack, we are looking more at behavior modification more than actual training. This requires skill and lots of judgement calls to ensure safety and correct implementation, so I always recommend working along with a dog trainer/behavior professional for in-person guidance and coaching. 

Disclaimer: behavior modification comes with risks. If your dog shows signs of potential aggression (lunging, barking, growling, snapping, biting) for safety, please consult with a dog behavior professional who uses force-free behavior modification techniques for direct in-person guidance. Articles, videos and general info found in the forums or course (and any online source) are not meant to replace in-person training/instruction. By using this course and forum, you are waiving any liability claims or other type of claims related to any dogs' behavior against you or others.

 

[DeniseButler]

I appreciate all the websites. Can I access these through the forum more then once so I can go back to them when need be? 

[JMFS]

You can, Denise.  They're part of the training course.  If you're on a desktop / laptop you can right click and open in a new window or tab (I'm notorious for having multiple tabs open) so you don't have to keep coming back to the forum.  The forum and the course training will log you out after 2 weeks, and I usually have to log back in if I navigate away from one or the other, but otherwise you shouldn't have any issues bouncing between them.

I'm so happy to hear animal control won't have to get involved!  That likely takes a load of weight off your shoulders.  I've been thinking about this all day and was anxious to hear how everything turned out!

[DeniseButler]

The vet bills haven’t been too bad but aren’t done yet. I’ve been thinking that since she was walking two dogs and mine only fought one, I think the male whom was older was protecting his sister who was younger and started fighting with my dog. My dog has never attacked a dog before and has only played with a dog when it’s one on one. I think that’s what happened in my opinion but agreed to pay the vet bills and animal control won’t be called. The woman told me she didn’t want me to be fined hundreds of dollars and add to my stress. 

[Adrienne]

Glad to hear the vet bills weren't excessive and that animal control won't be called anymore! It's unfortunate, but in general, a dog running off at large escaping from a fence or just being off leash is often found to be automatically at fault regardless of the circumstances, especially when the area in question had leash laws in place. 

If your dog wasn't truly intently attacking the other dog, but mostly acting on defense rather than offense, you may have somewhat less to work on, but I would suggest, since you haven't witnessed what happened exactly and since it sounds like your dog struggles seeing other dogs on walks, to assume the worse and proactively work on the issue in the same manner nonetheless. Some dogs may be fine with other dogs, until the other dogs are near their properties. If the male dog was protecting his sister and acting provocative and your dog bit more as a defense mechanism, you still will have work to do to undo the negative associations with this incident. The good news is that behavior modification can work both ways, it can help dogs who attack for offense or defense.