Older Dog to Pee/Poop on Command

[MurrayWhite]

Hi , I have recently taken in a "Rescue Dog ", not so much abused but neglected , a farm dog taken to town ,and chained to kennel.

She is an 8 yo Jack Russell ,was never on a lead , doesn't understand sit , great recall , no interest in cats , so no prey drive .Understands Stand and not much more ,doesn't know what toys are for, treats , no clues.

She has gone from a total outside dog to an apartment dweller , she is walked at  6am ( 1st walk)before coffee  even , another around 10am , sometimes at lunch time , a really long one inthe park or a street walk , we sometime do over 15 km and even over 20 km,with a final walk around 930 at night .

I have seen and it was portrayed as an easy train , to get potty on command .

Tried for 2 days constant , walking she would stop for a pee ,  finished peeing "good girl", reward .This mght happen up to 50 times on walks .

What I am looking for is to get her to pee at the start of the first morning walk , take the same route every morning stop at same grassey strip ideal for first pee , not interested carry on , sniffing all the way finally pees , but not much .

I suspect she must be peeing in the aprtment , but no sign of hte evidence .How on earth does she hold on so long .She has a pee onthe late walk but not generally more than an eg cup full.

Appreciate any advice

 

Cheers

 

Murray

 

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Hi there! Welcome back!

Thank you wholeheartedly for opening your heart and home to a rescue dog. This dog is very fortunate to have found you and your commitment to walking her and taking her out so often is remarkable! Happy endings to such sad stories melt my heart. 

I am not a hundred percent sure I fully understood the issue you are facing. 

Are you asking her to go potty on command up to 50 times on walks and she doesn't go? is she basically peeing only once a day in the evening?

It sounds like your goal is to have her go potty on command in a specific area at the beginning or the walk and completely empty her bladder, is this correct? 

Is she spayed? or is she intact? Dogs who don't empty their bladder fully may be urine marking rather than peeing. Dogs who urine mark tend to be selective of where to pee and may "save' their pee for marking in several places rather than full emptying their bladder in one specific spot. 

To train a dog to go potty on command, it's important to introduce a "go potty" cue that is said right when the dog positions herself to potty, and then, right when the dog is done going potty, praising and giving a treat. Here is the guide on that: 

https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/potty-on-command/

Two days is too early to see results with this training as it requires several repetitions for the dog to associate the words with the act of eliminating. With rescue dogs who are older and haven't received any training, I expect them to grasp the concept at a minimum after a couple of weeks. 

If she has never been on a leash before, consider that the leash may inhibit these dogs a bit. A longer leash may help them feel a little more free. It could be she is holding it because of the leash interfering or she doesn't feel safe or entirely at ease in the areas she is taken. 

I would check your place underneath beds, tables, behind couches etc. and look for signs of going potty there. If you have carpet, a black light can help highlight soiled areas as the glow.  If you find soiled areas, it is important to clean them up with an enzyme based cleaner. Until she is well trained to go potty outside reliably, it would be important keeping her in an area with a clear view so that doesn't sneak off somewhere to go potty and so you can monitor for signs of needing to be taken out to potty. 

Edited November 5, 2021 by Adrienne Farricelli

[MurrayWhite]

Thats a great help. she is unspeyed, and as you say she is probably markin her territory than peeing .

Lead training has adapted well , a wee bit of aggression to male dogs sniffining inappropriately , snarling bared teeth , but no blood , and plenty of noise, amybe 1x inhte past month.

My big worry is ,staight out ot bed in morning , 6am ( no coffe ) we head outhe the door , and no wees for 100yds or moe , and then a trickle,no poohs till mid morning work thats fine , but to me not natural.

I have only owned male dogs , peeing on everthing was normal , butexpected my old girl to be more refined and lady like .She marks I guess everyi 20m or so sometimes up to 50m but thats why we go through so many " good girl go pee " treats.

Initial idea is foor her to go pee at beginning of walk on grass berm, and tehna  leasurely stretch the muscles inthe morning and back for a derserved coffee and doggie treat .

Another quisck Q , shge is apparently 8yo , is this too late for one final litter of pups .

Appreciate your comments 

 

Regards Murray

New Zealand

[JMFS]

Quick question from someone who has an incontinent puppy.  Has she been to the vet to rule out a UTI?  The trickle and constant peeing makes me think UTI.  She may be apt to have accidents inside if it is and it would be stinky, but I wanted to throw that possibility out there.  UTI, while not desirable, would be an easy fix and make your life simpler!  Or kidney or bladder stones.  We went through the gamut of tests before the final diagnosis of "pelvic bladder," so I take a keen interest in urinary issues.  Bowing out now.  :)

Edited November 6, 2021 by JMFS

[MurrayWhite]

Yep , will look at this as an option, but shes not incontinent at night , in fact the very opposite holds on for about 8 hours nad when on 1st walk of ady ,is in no hurry r=to pee.

[Adrienne Farricelli]

Thats a great help. she is unspeyed, and as you say she is probably markin her territory than peeing . Lead training has adapted well , a wee bit of aggression to male dogs sniffining inappropriately , snarling bared teeth , but no blood , and plenty of noise, amybe 1x inhte past month.

The behavior towards male dogs insisting on sniffing her is not unusual. Too long, and too invasive sniffing is often considered rude. Her snarl is her way to tell these dogs to back off.  In general a few seconds of discrete sniffing is tolerated by most dogs, but prolonged and pushy sniffing may not. She is also 8 and she may not have been socialized enough as a young dog and older dogs may become less tolerant of pushy, younger dogs. 

If these dogs are encountered on walks, it may help to keep her walking so the other dogs have no time to sniff.

If these are other dogs sharing the home, it helps to introduce other dogs on neutral grounds and gradually. Your other dogs should be trained to disengage on your request  (like with a "leave it" ) https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/obedience-101/take-leave-it/ when you notice they are interacting in inappropriate ways. 

Being that she is intact, she may be of particular interest to your other dogs, especially if she is in the proestrus phase of the heat cycle. 

Here is a general guide for introducing new dogs: https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/introduce-dog-new-dog/

My big worry is ,staight out ot bed in morning , 6am ( no coffe ) we head outhe the door , and no wees for 100yds or moe , and then a trickle,no poohs till mid morning work thats fine , but to me not natural.

In general, dogs can hold it at night for 8 hours, although I have known dogs holding it for even up to 12. A dog I boarded once, had a history of not peeing in the kennels for an entire 24 hours, although he would pee for me easily considering that, when he boarded with me, he was more in a home-like environment. It could be she is "holding" it so she can go urine mark in areas she feels safe or prefers to leave her scent on. 

As Jennifer pointed out, ruling out urinary problems just in case would be important. Female dogs are more likely to get Urinary Tract Infections compared to male dogs, and this triggers them to pee often and in small amounts. 

I would suggest checking very closely if she pees somewhere during the night, early morning. If she urine marks, the trickles are small and may go undetected. A blacklight may help, but also passing a paper towel with your foot around to see if it picks up anything. Also, looking under tables, chairs etc. And consider that many dogs like to urine mark on vertical items so check the walls, table legs, etc.  Your other dogs can help too as they are attracted to peed areas, so if they intently sniff an area of the home, it could be it has some  of her dribble of urine. 

I have only owned male dogs , peeing on everthing was normal , butexpected my old girl to be more refined and lady like .She marks I guess everyi 20m or so sometimes up to 50m but thats why we go through so many " good girl go pee " treats.

I hear you! Intact female do urine mark and they can mark a whole lot more when they are nearing their heat cycle. They like to leave their "business card' under the form of pheromones that are released in the urine so other dogs are informed about her.  

Initial idea is foor her to go pee at beginning of walk on grass berm, and tehna  leasurely stretch the muscles inthe morning and back for a derserved coffee and doggie treat .

When the behavior of urine marking is hormonally-induced, there is not much that can be done against the instinct as the brain is primed for that, however, you can in part divert her attention to something else.

For example,  you can try to train her to empty her bladder in a specific area at the beginning of the walk, and then to prevent her from marking over and over after that, you can encourage her to walk quickly (without stopping to sniff) and do several steps of attention-heeling, https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/obedience-101/heeling-attention-heeling/ using your smacking sound https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/the-airplane-game/the-smacking-sound/ and delivering tasty treats to keep her busy. 

You may need to stop somewhere mid walk or at the end of the walk for another potty break though in case she hasn't fully emptied her bladder the first time and you may also need to monitor her carefully once home, in case she may need to still need to potty. 

Spaying can help reduce urine marking when hormonally-induced, although we need to consider that there is a learned component to urine marking too and spayed dogs can still urine mark. 

Another quisck Q , shge is apparently 8yo , is this too late for one final litter of pups.

Dogs don't go into menopause, but as they get older there are several drawbacks.  It may become more difficult for them to get pregnant, and there are increased risks for complications such as requiring a Caesarean section or developing things like mastitis, eclampsia, retained placentas. Also, as dogs get older they may not make great moms and this can mean hand-raising the entire litter.  Of course, there are exceptions to this, but its important to consider the risks.

On top of this, as intact females  get older they become more inclined to getting mammary gland tumors or life-threatening pyometras. Your vet can provide you the best information about this and his/her sincere opinion.  

[MurrayWhite]

On 11/7/2021 at 9:18 AM, Adrienne Farricelli said:

Thats a great help. she is unspeyed, and as you say she is probably markin her territory than peeing . Lead training has adapted well , a wee bit of aggression to male dogs sniffining inappropriately , snarling bared teeth , but no blood , and plenty of noise, amybe 1x inhte past month.

The behavior towards male dogs insisting on sniffing her is not unusual. Too long, and too invasive sniffing is often considered rude. Her snarl is her way to tell these dogs to back off.  In general a few seconds of discrete sniffing is tolerated by most dogs, but prolonged and pushy sniffing may not. She is also 8 and she may not have been socialized enough as a young dog and older dogs may become less tolerant of pushy, younger dogs. 

If these dogs are encountered on walks, it may help to keep her walking so the other dogs have no time to sniff.

If these are other dogs sharing the home, it helps to introduce other dogs on neutral grounds and gradually. Your other dogs should be trained to disengage on your request  (like with a "leave it" ) https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/obedience-101/take-leave-it/ when you notice they are interacting in inappropriate ways. 

Being that she is intact, she may be of particular interest to your other dogs, especially if she is in the proestrus phase of the heat cycle. 

Here is a general guide for introducing new dogs: https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/archive/introduce-dog-new-dog/

My big worry is ,staight out ot bed in morning , 6am ( no coffe ) we head outhe the door , and no wees for 100yds or moe , and then a trickle,no poohs till mid morning work thats fine , but to me not natural.

In general, dogs can hold it at night for 8 hours, although I have known dogs holding it for even up to 12. A dog I boarded once, had a history of not peeing in the kennels for an entire 24 hours, although he would pee for me easily considering that, when he boarded with me, he was more in a home-like environment. It could be she is "holding" it so she can go urine mark in areas she feels safe or prefers to leave her scent on. 

As Jennifer pointed out, ruling out urinary problems just in case would be important. Female dogs are more likely to get Urinary Tract Infections compared to male dogs, and this triggers them to pee often and in small amounts. 

I would suggest checking very closely if she pees somewhere during the night, early morning. If she urine marks, the trickles are small and may go undetected. A blacklight may help, but also passing a paper towel with your foot around to see if it picks up anything. Also, looking under tables, chairs etc. And consider that many dogs like to urine mark on vertical items so check the walls, table legs, etc.  Your other dogs can help too as they are attracted to peed areas, so if they intently sniff an area of the home, it could be it has some  of her dribble of urine. 

I have only owned male dogs , peeing on everthing was normal , butexpected my old girl to be more refined and lady like .She marks I guess everyi 20m or so sometimes up to 50m but thats why we go through so many " good girl go pee " treats.

I hear you! Intact female do urine mark and they can mark a whole lot more when they are nearing their heat cycle. They like to leave their "business card' under the form of pheromones that are released in the urine so other dogs are informed about her.  

Initial idea is foor her to go pee at beginning of walk on grass berm, and tehna  leasurely stretch the muscles inthe morning and back for a derserved coffee and doggie treat .

When the behavior of urine marking is hormonally-induced, there is not much that can be done against the instinct as the brain is primed for that, however, you can in part divert her attention to something else.

For example,  you can try to train her to empty her bladder in a specific area at the beginning of the walk, and then to prevent her from marking over and over after that, you can encourage her to walk quickly (without stopping to sniff) and do several steps of attention-heeling, https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/members/brain-training/obedience-101/heeling-attention-heeling/ using your smacking sound https://www.braintraining4dogs.com/the-airplane-game/the-smacking-sound/ and delivering tasty treats to keep her busy. 

You may need to stop somewhere mid walk or at the end of the walk for another potty break though in case she hasn't fully emptied her bladder the first time and you may also need to monitor her carefully once home, in case she may need to still need to potty. 

Spaying can help reduce urine marking when hormonally-induced, although we need to consider that there is a learned component to urine marking too and spayed dogs can still urine mark. 

Another quisck Q , shge is apparently 8yo , is this too late for one final litter of pups.

Dogs don't go into menopause, but as they get older there are several drawbacks.  It may become more difficult for them to get pregnant, and there are increased risks for complications such as requiring a Caesarean section or developing things like mastitis, eclampsia, retained placentas. Also, as dogs get older they may not make great moms and this can mean hand-raising the entire litter.  Of course, there are exceptions to this, but its important to consider the risks.

On top of this, as intact females  get older they become more inclined to getting mammary gland tumors or life-threatening pyometras. Your vet can provide you the best information about this and his/her sincere opinion.  

 

[MurrayWhite]

Thank you for your response, appreciate it.Murray

[Adrienne Farricelli]

You're very welcome! Keep us posted on how things go!

Adrienne